This page is an archive of a community-wide discussion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made in the Senate Hall or new Consensus Track pages rather than here so that this page is preserved as a historic record.
The result of the debate was use "X language" for names of languages where applicable Atarumaster88 ^{(Talk page)} 15:46, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

A while back, we had a brief Senate Hall discussion on whether to have languages that share the name of the people that use them at "X (language)" or "X language," where "X" is the name of the people in question. What little discussion occurred indicated there was support for the latter option, though admonitions against voting killed the momentum of the thread. I think we ought to go forward with the proto-consensus that was developing there, and have the appropriate language articles titled "X language." Reasons for this mentioned in the original discussion include:

• It makes for more natural links within articles
• Parenthetical titles are a little awkward in general
• It's the format used at Wikipedia, and though we are not them, consistency with them on this issue doesn't hurt us in any way and helps those with experience at Wikipedia find language articles.

jSarek 20:13, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Use "X language"Edit

1. jSarek 20:13, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
2. —Jaymach Ral'Tir (talk) 20:49, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
3. Atarumaster88 ^{(Talk page)} 21:34, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
4. Ozzel 21:36, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
5. The Vulcan's logic is impeccable.--Goodwood ^{(Alliance Intelligence)} 22:54, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
6. JMAS ^{Hey, it's me!} 00:20, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
7. Avoiding parentheses is always preferable. Havac 01:29, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
8. My userpage links to Selonian language, and I don't wanna change it Enochf 01:46, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
9. --Eyrezer 02:18, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
10. -- AdmirableAckbar ^(Talk) 08:43, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
11. So long as dolts don't gallivant around changing non-conflicting languages to X (language). On second thought, I can warn and block for that. I'm in. Graestan^(Talk) 00:43, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
    • On that note, for consistency sake, should we make it standard that "language" goes after the name whether or not is a shared language name or not? Just a thought. - JMAS ^{Hey, it's me!} 01:23, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
      • I'd say not. I really don't think it would be appropriate to slap "language" after something like Binary. Graestan^(Talk) 11:49, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
12. I want there to be a policy for the sake of consistency, but I couldn't care less which way it goes. So this is a support vote for the side that seems to be snowballing to a majority. I'll just switch sides if the parentheses people have a sudden outpouring of support. -- Darth Culator ^(Talk) 00:53, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
13. Per Culator. Heh heh. Chack Jadson ^(Talk) 01:09, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
14. Jedimca0^{(Do or Do Not, There is No Try)} 06:42, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
15. Master Aban Fiolli ^{{Alpheridies University ComNet}} 00:12, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
16. No-brainer. Parentheses should be used as a last resort. Now, we need to extend this universally to the Wook. Enough with The Empire Strikes Back (radio), for a nice example. Toprawa and Ralltiir 00:49, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
17. It's common sense. As for Binary, there are several other terms that might be confused with binary (binary star, binary loadlifter, etc, so there may be some need to tack on "language", plus we'll need to make a disambig for the existing article. -- Riffsyphon1024 06:26, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
18. Grand Moff Tranner ^(Comlink) 18:55, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
19. This one makes more sense to me. Madclaw^Shyriiwook! 11:59, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
20. It's just easier. Kyp 02:47, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
21. Greyman^(Talk) 00:34, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Use "X (language)"Edit

1. Unit 8311 20:21, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
2. To my knowledge, all IU languages specific to a race do not have 'language' on the end to specify them. To clarify between two instances of the same name, the definition is normally put in brackets e.g. Cerean (race) and Cerean (language). It's better grammar is all. Darth Xadún 09:04, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
3. Kuralyov 15:19, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
4. Din's Fire 997 05:30, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
5. KEJ 13:29, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
6. Per Darth Xadún Wildyoda 22:59, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
7. We wouldn't say [[Anakin Solo (Imperial-class Star Destroyer)|Anakin Solo Imperial Star Destroyer, so why should we say X language? It doesn't keep with the format of other things. That way people don't have to remember languages as an excaption. Soresumakashi 04:56, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
8. I concur - Kingpin13^{Cantina Battle Ground} 18:25, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

No policyEdit

CommentsEdit

• Hate to be the one saying this, but can any instances of referring to a language as the "X language" be found in any IU instances, and cited here? I lean towards the proposed policy out of sheer preference, but I think some stronger arguments must exist to be made. Graestan^(Talk) 01:32, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Since this is fresh in my mind since I just read it this afternoon, the UAA entry on the Neti call that language "Neti" in the species write-up, and in the main text note "The Neti language uses a combination of verbal and gestural elements . . . " jSarek 03:29, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
    • IIRC, IU sources (particularly Traviss' works) refer to the Mandalorian language as such. Just ignore that...--Goodwood ^{(Alliance Intelligence)} 22:03, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
  • There are other examples, too: "Do you have any information at all about the Qella language?" —Lando Calrissian, Shield of Lies for one. —Xwing328^(Talk) 01:33, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
    • Spoken is a different context. If Lando had asked for information on the Qella, he would have recieved information on the race, not the language. Darth Xadún 07:42, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
      • And if you type "Qella" into Wookieepedia, you will receive information on the race, not the language. So the question is, do we disambiguate the natural language way, or with parentheses? jSarek 09:55, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Can't we just allow both? it will make up for the difference in opinion. Everyone's happy then. Besides, its not as if it's being used for anything else. Soresumakashi 05:10, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

• Allowing both is the "No policy" option that is already listed but currently no one has voted for. I think just about everyone agrees that consistency one way or the other is more important than being able to do it the way they in particular prefer. jSarek 08:57, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
  • I meant in terms of redirects, although i'm pretty sure that has already been done. —Unsigned comment by Soresumakashi (talk • contribs).

Come on. One person agrees cause they can't be bothered to change a link and two other people agree becuase they want to be on the winning side? - Kingpin13^{Cantina Battle Ground} 13:27, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

• I think you're, uh, reading too much into it. Enochf's comment was clearly in jest, and Culator (and Chack) wasn't agreeing because he wanted to be on the winning side, but because he wants consistency and voting on the winning side is the best way to achieve it. Also, people can vote for whatever reason they like, even if they're "bad" ones, as demonstrated on probably every CT. -- AdmirableAckbar ^(Talk) 13:35, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Okay, LOL (thats the problem with internet, you can't tell when people are serious) but I worded the other one wrongly, I don't agree with the reason given, but, as you said, people can vote for what ever they want and I'm mearly voicing my opinion about theirs :D - Kingpin13^{Cantina Battle Ground} 15:25, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
    • I do like the way I voted for better, but mainly I would like a policy. Still, I feel the first option is the best. Chack Jadson ^(Talk) 18:45, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
      • But this is the name, Somebody could "mistake" it for the name because it is, say they were writing a story and they wanted to find out what language Rodians speak, and they found out here, and then they put it into their story it would sound like this: He spoke Rodese language. Through no mistake of his own it would be wrong, and it would be our fault. Please reconsider - Kingpin13^{Cantina Battle Ground} 09:26, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
        • Well, no, he wouldn't be wrong, because "he spoke Rodese" and "he spoke the Rodese language" are both perfectly legit ways of saying the same thing in English (well, he'd be wrong if he left out the "the" like you did, but I'm going to assume the hypothetical reader knows enough English to know when a direct article is needed). It's not like readers of Wikipedia are getting confused by articles on the Spanish language or the Dalmatian language. jSarek 09:58, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
          • That because the equvliant of the would be the Rodian language not the Rodese language. - Kingpin13^{Cantina Battle Ground} 10:36, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
            • That's a null point, though, because Rodese would stay exactly where it is, without the parentheses. This only applies to things like Selonian language, which is the same name as the species. So we wouldn't be saying things like "he spoke the Shyriiwook language" in articles, we would just say "he spoke Shriiwook." -- AdmirableAckbar ^(Talk) 11:22, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
              • A new page was just made, it's called Tynnan language, the language is called Tynnan but they can't call it that becuase the name of the species who speaks it is also called Tynnan, this would be alot better like this: Tynnan (language), it makes it clear that Tynnan is the name of the language. This page also inforces my other aruguments (I think) - Kingpin13^{Cantina Battle Ground} 11:55, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.