This page is an archive of a community-wide discussion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made in the Senate Hall or new Consensus Track pages rather than here so that this page is preserved as a historic record.
The result of the debate was to keep the title of Kreia at its present location. Graestan^(Talk) 04:42, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

I feel that the name of her article should be changed to Darth Traya due to what the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide says about her in the Sith section of the book. It is canon, and it would be wrong to not change it. Look at the comments posted here, and let's all vote accordingly.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 20:39, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Darth TrayaEdit

1. Jedi Kasra (talk) 20:39, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
2. Jayce Carver

KreiaEdit

1. IFYLOFD ^{(And now, young Skywalker, you will die.)} 20:52, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
2. The guide also shows Haazen instead of Lucien in the image of the Jedi Covenant/1st WatchCircle. Confusion, confusion...—Tommy9281 ^{(Peace is a lie)} 21:11, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
3. Greyman^(Talk) 21:32, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
4. Lord Hydronium 22:29, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
5. As much as I think this should have just been handled on the article's talk page. Green Tentacle ^(Talk) 22:36, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
   • I advised Kasra to use this format because it provides something simple to point at as an ultimate decision on the matter, since we all know it's going to be constantly fought over for all eternity until there is only one Immortal left and whatnot. Graestan^(Talk) 00:24, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
6. I don't think the policy of "name at the character's death" works best here, considering everyone (even Darth Sion) knew her as Kreia. -BaronGrackle 22:43, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
7. Wookieepedia is not KOTORFanboypedia. We tend toward common sense in these matters. Gonk ^(Gonk!) 23:12, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
8. Chack Jadson ^(Talk) 23:41, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
9. I don't think ANYONE ought to be placed at their Sith name, but I realize I'm a minority in that. That said, there seems even less reason to have her at her Darth name than other Sith. jSarek 00:44, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
10. Gray Jedi 01:38, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
11. Darth Vader directs to Anakin Skywalker's page, so does Anakin Skyawalker, so why should Kreia get special treatment? Jaygo Katarr 14:11, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
12. Everyone knew her as Kreia. She knew herself as Kreia. As far as we know, three people - the Exile, Sion, and Nihilus - knew her as Traya. See a pattern here? Din's Fire 997 16:27, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
13. As Kreia was her more commonly-used name, I'm abided to stand by the current title of the article as the final title. // ~mikah~ 19:25, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
14. JMAS ^{Hey, it's me!} 21:11, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
15. We don't really have any evidence that she reclaimed the Darth Traya name at her death, just later sources referring to her by her Sith name -- which things have done with Darth Tyranus or Darth Sidious, and with Jacen Solo in the opposite direction, without changing what name they died under. Havac 21:24, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
16. I really couldn't care less, but whatever. Atarumaster88 ^{(Talk page)} 22:23, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

CommentsEdit

I'm still deciding. She was known to the galaxy as Darth Traya, but who she was was Kreia, not Jedi or Sith, but rather attempting to go beyond that. Drewton ^{(Drewton's Holocron)} 21:37, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

• Guides make mistakes, that doesn't mean you can't count the info in them for a few mistakes. The book is the latest canon, I feel it would be wrong of us not to recognize that.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 21:38, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
• I'm not arguing the point past this comment, but just because a recent publication says "X" when numerous, older, publications say "XY" doesn't mean that those older sources should just be discarded — instead, a middle ground in those instances need to be found, or else go with what is more of a "constant" in canon. Granted, every situation is different, and I really don't care if you want to throw examples at me to prove your point — myself or others who cared enough could do the same thing for the opposite side. Just some food for thought because I can guarantee that others are thinking the same thing but won't comment. I again point to my first eight words of this post. Cheers, Greyman^(Talk) 21:43, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
• Throughout all of The Sith Lords, she was Kreia. Not Darth Traya. As far as in-universe is concerned, I've no idea which she was more commonly known by throughout the entirety of her life, though the MoS says as follows: "The titles of articles about individual characters should be the name by which the character was most commonly known in the the Star Wars universe[...]". If Kreia was what she was called, then Kreia is what I vote; this works vice versa for Darth Traya. // ~mikah~ 22:19, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

The Old Republic website also calls her Darth Traya and reveals that her plan to destroy the force was a Sith plot. She was indisputably Darth Traya when she died. Jayce Carver

• There is no way a plot to destroy the Force could be described as either a Jedi or Sith plot. Both groups rely on the Force, and without it, there would be no Jedi or Sith. Drewton ^{(Drewton's Holocron)} 22:30, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Additionally, the name after death makes no significant difference when naming articles, as you (Jayce) were told on the original discussion page. // ~mikah~ 22:45, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
• It's not KotORFanboyism. Is it fanboyism when both the KotOR Campaign Guide and the Heritage of the Sith article in Star Wars Insider #88 call her Traya? Just saying.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 19:41, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
• The Traya-sayers do have an important point. The Galaxy Guide does (apparently) call her Traya. Of course, the Galaxy Guide also says that Traya's motivations were to turn the Exile to the dark side (which is kind of a silly interpretation for anyone who's played the game). And it does seem that she had the name Traya at her death. I just think that she was known by the name Kreia so overwhelmingly, even at the point of her death, that it equates with the use of Palpatine or Dooku. The Exile and Sion both call her Kreia moments before her death. That's why I think "Kreia" is best, valid though the opposing arguments are. -BaronGrackle 21:09, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

On a somewhat off-topic note, how long do Consensus Tracks normally stay open? If this discussion continues its rather one-sided streak, it would need to remain open much longer. // ~mikah~ 22:07, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

• Per Wookieepedia:Consensus, two weeks. jSarek 00:09, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
  • If consensus if unclear, I see after reading. Thank you for answering. // ~mikah~ 00:24, 8 November 2008 (UTC)