This page is an archive of a community-wide discussion. This page is no longer live. Further comments or questions on this topic should be made in a new Knowledge Bank page rather than here so that this page is preserved as a historic record. Advanced Jedi Training Droid 6(Talk to my master) 00:05, March 12, 2015 (UTC)
How was the sudden appearance of the Grand Army of the Republic on Geonosis explained--particularly to the opponents of the Military Creation Act--given that the debate surrounding the Act's passage was not yet even over? Presumably, neither the opposition nor the proponents of the Act would have had knowledge of the growing of the army since it was ordered in secret. And yet after Palpatine was granted emergency power, a fully grown and trained army was immediately available, seemingly out of nowhere, to conduct military operations on Geonosis. Did the opposition call foul on the commissioning of the clone army since it must have been done prior to the vote being cast and the army approved? —Unsigned comment byRsonnenf (talk • contribs).
Funnily enough, I don't think that was ever really addressed. Seems like everyone just shrugged their shoulders and said "Meh, let's just do this war thing already." IFYLOFD(Talk) 06:56, January 26, 2015 (UTC)
Heh, sounds about right, Floyd. Padmé was the leader of the opposition and she was the first one to pick up a blaster, so it couldn't have been too hard to get everyone on board with the clones. Obviously, as The Clone Wars shows, there was still opposition and she was still one of its leaders, but the opposition turned towards ending the war. It had very little to do with the clones, except when there were votes to create more clones. - Brandon Rhea(talk) 14:59, January 26, 2015 (UTC)
The clones were a weapon bred in secret, so a covert weapon for a first strike to prevent immanent invasion and rescue hostages would be a positive thing. It's not like the science or protocols of ordering a clone army were common knowledge. The Kaminoans were essentially bought out and/or taken over by the republic and since they weren't previously known to the wider galaxy, nobody would have known it took 10 years to create a clone army. Kamino was now a republic world that just happened to supply soldiers when they were desperately needed. Palpatine had Emergencey Powers, so the commissioning of the clones under his authority could not be questioned in such circumstances. If they were, we just didn't get to see it. Still, a great question. Ghostly Menace (talk) 15:03, January 30, 2015 (UTC)
I mean, lack of understanding as to how the clones are grown and how long it takes seems to be a plausible answer. But I think I'd have a few doubts as to there being no questions asked even if that answer were adopted. First, the governing agents on Kamino were informed that the army was formed for the Republic, and Lama Su was fairly open to disclosing that fact to Obi-Wan--this gets into assumption-territory, but I would assume that post-Geonosis, once there's a little time for the Republic to adapt to this new set of circumstances (having an army, preparing for war), it would want to find out where the army came from; and it would presumably find out that the army was created for the Republic ten years prior. So you could still get to the "calling foul" aspect even if the wider galaxy had not known about the intricacies and time-framing of cloning pre-Geonosis. Second, I'd have doubts about no one being able to question Palpatine's authority to call for an army. Even if, politically, the Chancellor's act could not be questioned as a permissible use of his emergency powers, the fact that he calls for an army, which happens to be commissioned specifically for the Republic ten years prior and is now conveniently available for use during the growing Separatist Crisis despite the presence of a debate considering whether the put into existence an army at all, would certainly, I think raise questions as to the legitimacy of the Chancellorship and his use of emergency powers. But as far as we know, there's no legal or political challenge. --Rsonnenf (talk) 16:30, February 7, 2015 (UTC)
I wonder about the legal implications. So, say a businessman starts to clone Wookies to be used as bodyguards, flash-imprinting them with skill with arms and unbreakable loyalty to their master, and sells them to the high bidder...is that legal? Could you keep slaves if you had made them? And what about other kinds of servants, like Twi'lek dancers, Theelin singers or Zeltron courtesans, could you freely clone and sell them to the highest bidder because you made them and they are yours? If that's true, why would anybody bother capturing or breeding slaves? Just invest into making cloning cheaper, and you would have a legal, endless source of slaves flash-imprinted with the skills that you want to give them and conditioned to be utterly loyal to their owners.--Brokendroid (talk) 12:22, February 7, 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, I'm not certain that that would be illegal on its face, but I guess my concern with that model is that in the context of the clone army and the debate pre-Geonosis, you have a political question that has yet to be resolved, and even assuming your business/cloning model were legal and adopted, the largest governing body in the galaxy at that time is completely unaware of the army's growth, which had been started long before any vote was to be cast even though they were debating on the pros and cons of the existence of that very army. It's growth prior to Senate approval seems to raise legal issues in and of itself. --Rsonnenf (talk) 16:30, February 7, 2015 (UTC)
Well, Palpatine and Count Dooku arranged everything so it would look as if the deceased Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas were responsible for the Clone Army, so there was an army property of the Jedi and nobody alive to be blamed for it. The Senate could have demanded that the Clone Army be disassembled, and many probably were suspicious about who had really commisioned it (how convenient for the Jedi Order that the guy who was said to have paid for it was safely dead!), but ironically, they didn't have a Republican Army that could force anybody to do anything, so they choose the pragmatic path and allowed those two problems (the Clone Army and the Separatist movement) to butcher each other, which at the moment must have sounded lika a very smart move. As for the anti-belicist movement, Padme Amidala and Bail Organa got along very well with the Jedi Order and believed their story about Sifo-Dyas; they might not like the existence of the Clone Army, but they wouldn't prosecute the Jedi Council. What I have trouble with is the existance of a slave army...shouldn't the Kaminoans themselves be prosecuted for its creation?--Brokendroid (talk) 10:02, February 8, 2015 (UTC)
Well, I think as to your slavery question, there are two answers. If we assume that the courts would consider use of clones in an army to constitute "slavery" at all, first, the Rights of Sentients Clause in the Galactic Constitution (which, inter alia, bans slavery), as far as I understand, only applies to Republic-member worlds, so, at least in 22BBY, Kamino, not being in the Republic, would not be subjected to its demands. But even if it doesn't, this raises questions as to whether it would be legal for Kamino to continue growing clones for combat after entering the Republic--or, for that matter, the Republic itself using them. But I think you might be able to argue that (again, assuming this meets the legal definition of slavery at all) that while they are sentient beings, as required by the Clause, they are not "citizens," which is also required in order to enjoy the rights under it (depending on how the courts define "citizen" as used in the Clause). So since they're more like tools or--I hate to use this word--property of the Republic, grown and not born, a plausible argument could be made that they are not citizens and are not included under the purview of the Rights of Sentients Clause.