This page is an archive of a community-wide discussion. This page is no longer live. Further comments or questions on this topic should be made in a new Knowledge Bank page rather than here so that this page is preserved as a historic record. Graestan(Talk) 04:00, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
First of all, no, this is not in reference to the retcon regarding the date of the subjugation of the Sith species by the exiled Dark Jedi. So if that's what you were thinking as you clicked on this thread, don't worry, I am bringing up an entirely different point.
I challenge the idea that the old Sith Empire was founded by the Exiles in 6,900 BBY based on information from The Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide. It says that the Sith species conquered other worlds around the time when King Adas relocated the capital from Korriban to Ziost circa 28,000 BBY, thus constructing what would later become known as "Sith space." Is this not imperialization?" That's what an empire is: an expansionist body ruled by a monarch which usually conquers other territories by force. That's an empire right there, my friends. So really, wouldn't the first Sith Empire have been founded around 28,000 BBY, just following their victory over the Rakatan invaders; and then the Dark Jedi of the Second Great Schism simply took control and continued it? 22.214.171.124 03:02, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
You're thinking of two different things. The Sith species began violence c. 28,000. The Sith order is not the same as the species. The Sith Order was a group of Dark Jedi that were descendants of the Sith species and also of the exiles. SoresuMakashi(Everything I tell you is a lie) 05:45, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
I don't think that's quite right either. I think the implication is that the Sith species, violent as it is, wasn't organized into the Sith Empire as we knew it until the Dark Jedi exiles arrived. So while the Sith were imperialistic as of 28,000 BBY, the Sith Empire, ruled by a Dark Lord of the Sith, was not founded until 6,900 BBY. The Sith ORDER, different from the Sith Empire, would have been founded later (when is up to debate; Exar Kun and Darth Bane could both be argued in this case). Taral, Dark Lord of the Sith 18:19, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I know the difference between the Sith order and the Sith species, as well as between the Sith order and the Sith Empire. I don't see how my first post in any way suggests that I don't. Rather, it seems to suggest the contrary, at least to me. (Sorry if I wasn't clear, though.) I was saying that the Empire began with the species rather than the order. Yes, they were imperialistic in nature, but since the Sith species pretty much had a monarch since the time of Adas even before the dynasty of the Dark Lord of the Sith -- the dynasty of the Sith'ari, the successors to Adas -- is that not an empire?
To be honest, I really dislike the recent retcon as to the nature of the pre-Dark Jedi-conquered Sith. I liked it better when they were thought to have been a primitive people lightyears away from any sort of space travel. It made better sense, especially with them heralding the the coming Dark Jedi as gods. Since they have now been retconned to have been a space-aged people only primitive in appearance, who have already faught and overcome another group of alien species -- the Rakata -- it seems far less likely that they would have so readily accepted the Dark Jedi. But what ever. We've got to go with what has been established most recently, like it or not.
So the point still stands: could it not be said that the Sith Empire started with the Sith species in 28,000 BBY? Or at the very least that they had their own empire before the Dark Jedi brought it to its knees and started their own? 126.96.36.199 03:33, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
The Sith had an interstellar Empire under Adas, but by 6,900 it had collapsed into civil war and primitivism. When the Exiles arrived, Sith society was rather primitive. There was no Sith "Empire" as such, merely small and petty fiefdoms existing on several scattered worlds. The Dark Jedi reforged these into a single political unit. QuentinGeorge 05:25, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
Sorry 71.61, my comment was referring more to the statement of SoresuMakashi, not yours. I agree that the retcon is a bit strange, but I maintain that the empire established by Adas, while definitely an empire, was different from the Sith Empire (note the capital E) as established by Karness Muur & XoXaan and the other Exiles. QuentinGeorge's theory isn't terribly plausible though. For one, I don't think it's canon at all. Two, if they BECAME primitive between 28,000 BBY and 6,900 BBY, then they would have lost contact between Korriban, Ziost, Khar Delba, etc. I don't think that it is even implied anywhere that the Sith from each of these planets were any different from each other, which would have been likely if they were isolated for millennia. It's more likely that any spacefaring technology built between 28,000 and 6,900 BBY was still more primitive than the ship that the Exiles arrived in. That might explain why they were still in awe over the Exiles (combined with the Exile's grasp of the Dark Side.)Taral, Dark Lord of the Sith 16:53, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
I repeat. There was no empire by the time the Exiles arrived. Look at Dathka Graush - he didn't even control all of Korriban, let alone a multi-stellar empire. There was "periodic civil war" engulfing the planets of Sith Space, and while people might have claimed "Sithari" as the title, there was no Empire, merely the Sith species who existed on several different worlds in isolation. Isolations of 10,000 to 20,000 years isn't long enough to evolve into different species, but it is long enough to develop different cultures. I hardly think a spacefaring race would consider the Jedi gods simply because they had a a slightly more advanced spaceship. Read Ajunta Pall's memoirs in The Essential Guide to the Force -it is clear the only spaceship available on Korriban is that which the Exiles arrived in. The native Sith have nothing to offer the newcomers except "Sith alchemy" and "crude illusions". QuentinGeorge 21:27, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
That makes sense. So basically they devolved back to their primitive days by the time the Exiles arrived? 188.8.131.52 03:59, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
Correct. Adas' Empire was long gone when Ajunta Pall first stomped on Korriban. QuentinGeorge 10:22, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
Here is the article I just created. Please feel free to contribute. 184.108.40.206 20:11, 9 November 2008 (UTC)