I wasn't perpetuating anything, I was making one supplementary statement and was explicit in my dropping the subject. However, now that I've been threatened with a block for general disruption, in effect for pointing out an honest clerical mistake, I'm bringing this dispute to everyone's attention, officially.

Earlier today, Toprawa and Ralltiir gave Hk 47 a warning on his talk page, telling him to stop copy/pasting text to write articles. Toprawa and Ralltiir noticed this in an edit Hk 47 made to Infiltration of the Tarkin that Toprawa and Ralltiir subsequently reverted. In this warning, he said that this was an illegitimate way to improve the Wook, against the rules. In truth, it is not. There is no policy on this; the taboo was started on the CAN page with people refusing to vote for articles that were copy/pasted. That's all well and good, but we never made it official, so there was no grounds for that warning—not against the rules, not punishable. Looking into the matter further in researching this notice shows that Hk 47 did copy from material he did not write: "Tarkin", taken to status by Toprawa and Ralltiir. That was where Hk 47 went wrong. Nonetheless, Hk 47's warning makes no mention of the fact that he copied from an article he did not write, nor did the Administrator mention this after I said that that circumstance would be unacceptable. Instead, Toprawa and Ralltiir berated him for his practice of copy/pasting articles—which, as stated, is not against the rules. Not having investigated the matter further to see where the words came from, thinking it only had to do with the act of copy/pasting because of the warning Toprawa and Ralltiir left, I pointed out the practice's legitimacy under the warning. I should have looked into the matter further beforehand, but I would have pointed this out either way. I was then rebuffed by the Administrator, who told me I should "mind my own business." His response was, I would say, overly aggressive in reaction to my two sentence remark.

For full disclosure and to provide some context, in the beginning of the CAN, I did a lot of copy/paste work and was there when copy/pasting status articles was unofficially denounced, and I am in the position to know a little something about how we've been handling it considering that I have been making the relevant concession a lot. Namely, an article that is being put up for status should be unique, with an exception for the "Behind the scenes" section. I highly doubt that Hk 47 was thinking of putting "Infiltration of the Tarkin" up for status by taking from an article he did not write. That prospect simply does not make sense to me, though I could be wrong. He had not nominated it yet, and was thus not violating the unofficial agreement he was accused of breaking.

When I wrote a short, probably too curt response back to Toprawa and Ralltiir—not wanting this to escalate to formality, but not being able to say nothing to that rejoinder—he proceeded to warn me on my talkpage, this time altogether too harsh, saying that I was being disruptive and saying that if I pursued the matter further, which I said I had no intention to do, without the Noticeboard he would block me. Thus, here we are.

Toprawa and Ralltiir handled this situation in a way that was beneath the attitude the userbase expects of an Administrator. No, Administrators are not required by their position to be nice—no-one is, regardless of position. However, the position comes with expectations from the people who vote Administrators in. An Administrator enforces policy with official Administrative warnings; moreover, the userbase expects to be listened to. Per Wookieepedia:Administrators, "Administrators are not imbued with any special authority, and are equal to everybody else in terms of editorial responsibility." In this case, it was my editiorial responsibility to point out Toprawa and Ralltiir's misconception, and to say that it was none of my business to point out that another user was being accused of something that is not a crime strikes me as a gross overstep by the acting Administrator. Had Hk 47 responded under the warning, would he have received similar remarks and threats? I would say it is more likely he would have been blocked outright. Toprawa and Raltiir made a simple mistake: he misjudged something as against the rules when it was not and failed to point out the true problem with the edit: Hk 47 copied from an article written by Toprawa and Ralltiir. He decided not to handle this like any other user would have, by telling the offender not to plagiarize. I have done this myself, I've seen other people handle this as well, and it does not take an Administrative threat with a trumped charge to fix the situation.

It is not a sign of weakness to have someone point out your mistake: we all deal with that regularly on the nom pages. It is not a capitol offense to point out something has gone wrong: especially when it pertains to a miscarriage of justice. Toprawa and Ralltiir made an error here, and I'm typing this report out at his request. I don't desire or expect any action taken against someone who has been doing their job correctly for years, with only a few hiccups. Frankly, this incident simply needs to be on record and all I would like is an apology, if at all possible. Nonetheless, I am not a stupid child anymore and any more hiccups henceforth that I feel should be officialized will be officialized. In this case though, two words and this will be behind us both. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 23:06, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

  • I wasn't originally going to respond to this at all, because, frankly, Naru, you and your pontificating aren't worth my time, energy, or the keystrokes it takes to type this out. But anytime someone goes this far out of their way to try and intentionally damage my reputation, I feel like it's only fair that I defend myself. The situation is very simple. Hk 47 inserted a remarkably substantial amount of copy-and-pasted text from one article into another, which has never and will never be an acceptable editing practice on Wookieepedia. This has always been looked down upon by the community. That statement is such a given, I don't feel it has to be elaborated upon or debated any further. The fact that you, Naru, in your laziness, have perpetuated copy-and-pasting in the past, and have even been so crass as to attempt to pass that off as acceptable CAN material, is your shortcoming, and doesn't justify the practice in any way. Your complaint here hinges on the notion that because there is no literal written policy forbidding this practice that I, as an administrator, am not allowed to warn or potentially block someone for it. This is where you are patently mistaken. I consider such blatant and widespread copy-and-pasting, as Hk 47 performed, to be nothing more than an extremely low-quality edit, such as would be reverted by any self-aware user. The proliferation of low-quality edits in any form is only detrimental to the success of Wookieepedia. You may liken this in principle, if you will, to paragraphs riddled with grammatical, spelling, and punctuation errors. No literal written policy exists forbidding this, but if someone goes on a streak of adding copious amounts of text riddled with said errors to articles, you can be sure as heck fire that they're going to be warned and/or blocked for it sooner or later. Look no further than Justin Gann to be reminded of this universal truth. It's counterproductive and disruptive to the aim of Wookieepedia, and I, as an administrator, don't require an official policy page to keep it from getting out of hand. Copy-and-pasting thousands of bytes' worth of text between articles is no different in being counterproductive, in my administrative interpretation and according to our longstanding, if unwritten, precedent for this. Again, your own ridiculous use of it, Naru, notwithstanding. I'm aware that Hk 47 is a non-native English speaker, and I'm just assuming he decided to go this route to avoid the trouble of having to worry whether his own grammar was good enough to pass muster in the face of some of our grammarian sticklers. I can understand that, but that still doesn't justify it. After seeing the lengths he was willing to go with this—that is, copy-and-pasting virtually an entire article worth of text—I felt it was only prudent to warn him that copy-and-pasting, especially in such large amounts, is not ok, and that I might consider a block as a preventative measure if it got out of hand. I admit I probably rashly made it seem in my warning as if a block was imminently forthcoming were he to do it again, which was not my intention. That was my mistake. If you want to hammer me for that, go for it. But to attempt to paint me as personalizing the situation, Naru, because it involved the Tarkin article, which I wrote, is simply incorrect and unfair to me. I only noticed what Hk was doing because I created Infiltration of the Tarkin and have it on my watchlist, but I would have reacted the same regardless of the subject. I think maybe you need to try doing a little better in the assuming-good-faith department, Naru. Quite frankly, I consider all of this an enormously unnecessary disruption of your own making, which was why I warned you to take it to the appropriate channels in the first place, because I knew you were going to infect the entire wiki with your drama. If you disagree with my administrative decisions, that's fine, but you should be mature enough to know to handle it in an appropriate way. Calling me out in public on Hk's talk page and trying to make me look like a fool with this NB forum is not the way to do it. That's going to put anyone on the defensive. You asked for an apology? Maybe if you had bothered to check your e-mail, you would have seen that I offered an apology and extended an olive branch to try and diffuse the situation like adults, in private, without dragging everyone else down with us, three hours before you even posted this. You claim you're not a stupid child anymore, but you sure could have fooled me. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 06:58, September 29, 2012 (UTC)
    • I do thank you for the apology in the e-mail, but I just don't check it regularly—maybe if you'd mentioned that you were sending one at any point, I would have thought to check my e-mail in the middle of the day. Now then, is this noticeboard not public, more so than Hk's talk page? I have not gone after your reputation at all. I have said that you made one simple mistake, exaggerating that it was honest: and you still did, but now I see there's another, bigger one. You have a bad habit of reacting to situations violently. What started as a two sentence rebuttal to a talk page message has spiraled out into massive walls of Wookdrama here. The most pointed response I have given you during this situation has been my second statement on Hk's talk page, which was still not nearly as bellicose as how you have responded every time. In fact, I tried to keep my notice here, while still opinionated, as clinical as I could to avoid you thinking I was doing any of this to intentionally inspire Wookdrama or in retalitation for our history together [this was brought up in the apology e-mail]. As for our history together? I'd say the statute of limitations is up: I don't care anymore, and you shouldn't either. If you can't separate your perception of an awful, petulant thirteen-year-old from the college-educated eighteen-year-old he grew into, that is your own fault.
    Bad spelling and grammar are against policy, and I'm surprised you think they wouldn't be. Per the Manual of Style's Usage and Spelling section, "Though the readers and editors of Wookieepedia speak many varieties of English, we mandate standard American English spelling, grammar, punctuation, and word usage." You have policy to back you up in that situation. In the matter of copy/pasting text, you don't. You may consider it "lazy," but your opinion on the matter is not grounds for using your Administrative powers. In my opinion—and without community consensus this really is the two of us pontificating—it has utilitarian application, such as when you need to make a slew of articles with the same content to satisfy redlink limits. I freely admit that I took it too far in the beginning, and Hk 47, even were they his own words, took it too far here. Policy was not broken this way. Policy was broken because he copied from the text of an article he did not write. Whatever else you feel about this situation, your failure to point out that he plagiarized when you assuredly knew that he did, and even after I pointed out that that case would be wrong, was a mistake. Your aggressive attitude about something so minor, and your balking at my making it official, are also uncalled for.
    Since this began, in the span of four messages, you've called me "lazy," "not worth [your] time," and "a general nuisance;" you have told me that I'm not being mature when you have been the only one here attacking anyone else's reputation; and have told me not to "push it" when I have every right to point out that you did something wrong. I followed your directive to take it to the proper channels and you're telling me that I'm the one escalating this situation unnecessarily? If we're going to say that a problem between a new user and an established user will be given consideration by the Administration, then a problem between an established user and an Administrator needs at least some as well. I've stated my case and you've given your rebuttal and your apology, which I accept. Whether they agree with you or me, we have passed the point at which this situation can be decided between the two of us and it is now up for review by the rest of the Administration. I hope that the only official complaint you have ever received, to which you responded like this, was worth their time. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 16:47, September 29, 2012 (UTC)
    • NaruHina, I applaud your efforts however, I feel this will achieve nothing in the long-run due to the development of a mindset that deems acceptable, the increasingly displayed contempt and arrogance towards users by a small few within the now out of control number of administrators. The fact that many of the admins have only been elevated to the point of adminship due to support and votes from those within the adminship and not the wider community, is a major failing by this particular wiki. The lack of human decency and common courtesy by so many is saddening. Jartka'irn (talk) 11:59, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
  • Since the request for adminship process is an open process where almost all Wookieepedians can vote, I have to assume you have some sort of personal agenda against certain admins. If you don't vote, that's your problem. It's like accusing the voters in a presidential election for voting wrongly—whereas you didn't vote in the first place. 1358 (Talk) 13:48, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
    • Furthermore, Tope's nomination had support from both admins and the users here at the time. This wasn't really the place to post this comment, Jart. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 14:56, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
      • Yes, please let us not get sidetracked. This discussion, as I am understanding it, is concerning the issue of copy/pasting as related to a user's practice of it and subsequent warning, and so it is a very important discussion to be had—minus the emotional feelings attached to it. To the point at hand, then! I concede to having taken a misstep when commenting on Hk's page. Tope enlightened me to the issue of irritating Hk by posting further discussion on his talk page, and I accept that it was inappropriate to post my comment there. As I've stated before, Tope is an admin and therefore has no need for support, permission, or approval from me to carry out his administration of this facility. However, I posted on Hk's talk page to provide Naru with a redirect to the policy Tope was invoking, Wookieepedia:Copyrights#Contributors.27_rights_and_obligations. I should have posted it on Naru's talk page, but hindsight's 20/20. Nevertheless, we are not talking about a forum consensus, here, but a core tenet of this site. Note the statement it makes concerning copying: "…copyright law governs the creative expression of ideas, not the ideas or information themselves. Therefore, it is perfectly legal to read an encyclopedia article" (such as we are) "or other work, reformulate it in your own words, and submit it to Wookieepedia." It then admonishes what an editor should do when an article is plagiarized: "…the infringing content should be removed, and a note to that effect should be made on the talk page, along with the original source." The {{Nothanks}} template makes this easy, but although it redirects to the Copyright policy, the warning box only comments on plagiarizing from sources outside this encyclopedia, not encompassing the whole policy. At the very least it's a precedent, but perhaps it can be expanded/modified to specifically indicate a potential violation when copy/pasting from other wiki articles. Anyway, I hope this helps to shed light on the subject for those wanting to know what the policy is. Just trying to be helpful to those who may have seen the Forum consensus but missed the actual policy. Regards. —GethralkinHyperwave 18:35, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
        • We already established that Hk broke policy by copying from an article he didn't write and that it was wrong of him to do so, several times. That was never the issue in this complaint. The problem was that that isn't what he was given a warning for: the blanket act of copying/pasting from one article to another, including his own contributions. The other grievance was Toprawa's handling of a situation in which the policies you've recited were broken. These policies talk about copying from content the person didn't create, something not already written in the person's words, and are as such not applicable to this discussion. One does not infringe by copying one's own words. Moreover, according to Toprawa's rebuttal above, the reason he did not cite these statues is because he believes that copy/pasting is in and of itself detrimental to Wookieepedia and not because it violated explicit policy. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 19:34, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
  • I officially request that this complaint be archived. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 15:44, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
    • Since this issue seems to be solved, I will go ahead and close it. 1358 (Talk) 15:47, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

Ad blocker interference detected!

Wikia is a free-to-use site that makes money from advertising. We have a modified experience for viewers using ad blockers

Wikia is not accessible if you’ve made further modifications. Remove the custom ad blocker rule(s) and the page will load as expected.