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Forums > Administrators' noticeboard archive > NB:Use of unconfirmed canonical sources

If any of you have been paying attention the last couple days, I have been trying to reason with JRT2010 in what is considered actual canon and not just a theory. This discussion involves the validity of Anakin Skywalker being considered the Chosen One in the prophecy. Now granted I have my own theory as to who the Chosen One is, and that is because there is no confirmed canonical source as to state that it is Anakin. So far the sources JRT2010 have given me are 2 captions on images from starwars.com, both of which are not on Anakin Skywalker's databank page, and a children's book with every description stating that even though the book follows the movie it does contain the author's own perspective of what took place. I have recently received an e-mail, that I am more than happy to share with everyone, from a representative of starwars.com that states they cannot confirm nor deny whether the captions on the images are considered canonical. This should be more than enough to discredit those captions as it states the canonicity of the captions cannont be verified. As I stated about the children's book Star Wars Return of the Jedi: Beware of the Dark Side, it contains opinions from the author of what took place, which means it also cannot be verified as a canon source. All confirmed canon sources, including the databank page for Anakin Skywalker on starwars.com states, "Anakin Skywalker had the potential to become one of the most powerful Jedi ever, and was believed by some to be the prophesied Chosen One who would bring balance to the Force.". This doesn't confirm nor deny the possibility that Anakin was the Chosen One, but this statement alone is the only thing that is considered canon. I feel that if you want to keep information on this site as canonical as possible, then any information on this site regarding Anakin Skywalker and the prophecy should state what it says on the databank page, and nothing more. I have tried to upload an image of the e-mail for people to be able to view it, but apparently I don't have the proper permissions to do so. I do believe if you were to view it, you would see it as a valid source confirming that the captions cannot be used as canonical sources. I wouldn't have any problems forwarding the e-mail directly to any of you as well so you can verify the authenticity of it as well, as I know things like that can be doctored. I am not asking for my own theory to be posted on this site, but only correct content that is not confirmed by valid sources. TonyPettengill (talk) 03:17, March 5, 2017 (UTC)

  • I would like to give you one other piece of evidence that should be enough evidence to settle this once and for all. When a prophecy is actually fulfilled, it is suppose to last forever and not need to be fulfilled yet again. In the case of the Star Wars prophecy, it had been around for thousands of years. In that time period, there was not one time that a Chosen One emerged to fulfill it. However if we are meant to believe that Anakin fulfilled the prophecy, then why is there still an imbalance in the force? How do I know that there is an imbalance? Well Episode 7 tells us there is. Luke has vanished, which means there are no Jedi. Lor San Tekka stated to Poe "This will begin to make things right. I've traveled too far, seen too much, to ignore the despair in the galaxy. With no Jedi there can be no balance in the force.". This is said right after handing Poe a piece of the map that leads to Luke Skywalker's whereabouts. There is clearly an imbalance in the force, which means the prophecy was never fulfilled. So besides removing content that is coming from unverified supposed canon sources, this here should be definitive enough in saying Anakin was not the Chosen One, or at the very least that the prophecy has not yet been fulfilled. It would be stupid if they did this, but I guess there is always a chance they could bring Anakin back as a force ghost and somehow fulfill the prophecy that way, but I highly doubt that. TonyPettengill (talk) 06:02, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
    • We've known since 2005 that Anakin is the Chosen One. Until Lucasfilm says otherwise, we're not going to change that. Please move on from this needless debate. - Brandon Rhea(talk) 16:00, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
      • In 2005 the story was considered complete and therefore he could have been considered the Chosen One. However, today, the story is not over, there is an imbalance in the force, which means the prophecy was not fulfilled. Denying this does not make it false. It just means your theory of what took place is no longer canon. It is a well known fact that George Lucas was done making the films, and even in 2009 had no intent of making 7-9, which would make Anakin the Chosen One at that point. When he made the decision to sell the rights for Star Wars, he decided to start writting a script for 7 in order to increase the value to make more money. Now that 7 is released and they clearly state at the beginning that there is an imbalance in the force, Anakin can no longer be called the Chosen One. By sayig he is is using unconfirmed sources and stating it as canon, when it is not. This is not a pointless debate, as it directly clashes with the continuation of actual canon story after 6. The story is not over, and will not be over until the prophecy is fulfilled. Saying otherwiseis only spreading your own theories/fan fiction. TonyPettengill (talk) 17:06, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
        • You're drawing conclusions that don't fit the facts. As per exactly what we were told about the "Chosen One" throughout the prequel era, he destroyed the Sith and brought balance to the Force. Nowhere was it ever stated that the Force would be in balance forevermore afterward. If I say "I will buy a car," do so, and then sell it 5 years later, that doesn't invalidate the fulfillment of the original statement. I did buy a car, exactly as I said. I never said I would keep that car in perpetuity. — DigiFluid(Whine here) 17:22, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
          • Those who know anything about prophecies knows that they are only fulfilled once. Give me any prophecy that was fulfilled more than once. In fact give me an actual proven canonical source of what the prophecy actually states. I would bet that the prophecy doesn't mention Sith specifically. In fact Yoda even stated thatthe prophecy could have been misinterpreted. So to state that you know everything about the prophecy based off the prequels when the original text isn't ever provided, then your comment is nothing more than theory as well. It would also make more sense for the prophecy to only be fulfilled once. For thousands of years that the prophecy was around, not once before the prequels was there ever a Chosen One. So why now does the prophecy need to be fulfilled twice in the matter of a few years, if Anakin was the Chosen One? Also it says Chosen One not Chosen Few, meanig it will be one to do it, not more than one. BTW, your car scenario doesn't fit. It isn't a prophecy to say that you will buy a car. A prophecy also indicates a prediction with it, like saying you will buy a car and it will be the only car you ever need. There a predicition is made that you will need only the one car. If you buy one car and then a few years later buy another, then that first car didn't fulfill the prophecy/prediction of being the only car you ever need. It isn't a theory that a prophecy is something that will last forever once it is fulfilled, it is a common fact most people know. But the problem here is not whether we believe or don't believe the prophecy was fulfilled, the problem is you are basing your conclusion and information on this site on unconfirmed canonical material. The only statement that is canonical fact is that some believed him to be the Chosen One. I have verification that the captions on the images of starwars.com are unconfirmed canonical statements. The books also are described as having interpretations from the authors of what took place, which means they contain theories. It is canonical fact that in 7 there is an imbalance in the force, which means that there is no confirmed canonical evidence that the prophecy was ever fulfilled. All I am asking is for you to use confirmed canonical sources, and thus far you are not on this subject. Even in the original script it says nothing about the force being in balance at the end of 6. So instead of just trying to state I am wrong, provide a valid source, otherwise all you are doing is stating your own theories. TonyPettengill (talk) 19:41, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
            • Multiple users have responded to your posts and provided you with several sources, all whom are considered canonical per our Canon policy, that confirm Anakin Skywalker is the Chosen One. If you can't accept this, I strongly suggest you take your opinions, which are speculation at this point, elsewhere instead of continuing this debate. If you choose not to heed this warning, the administration may sanction you for disruption of the site. Imperators II(Talk) 10:26, March 6, 2017 (UTC)
              • I have a source stating that 2 of the sources you are using cannot be confirmed as canonical sources, but you people will not allow me to share it with you. And if you guys had half a brain to actually read the descriptions of the children books that you are claiming as canonical sources, when it states that the books contain the author's interpretation of what happened, then you would come to the same conclusion about those books that I have, that they are using speculation and contain the theories of the authors. Your sources are not confirmed canonical sources, PERIOD. You guys are just too afraid of actually reading the email I received from starwars.com to see that they said those captions cannot be confirmed as canon. No other site, only your own, consideres those "sources" as canon. At this point I don't give a fuck if you guys decide to ban my account. All of you are acting like little fucking cry babies because you can't handle the proven fact that there is absolutely no proven canonical material that states Anakin brought balance to the force. I have proven your sources to be unconfirmed, but you assholes can't handle it. The only canonical fact is that some believed him to be the Chosen One. That is it. That is what the site should be changed to say, otherwise all you are doing is stating your own theories and trying to claim them as fact. When they come out and state that Rey is the Chosen One, and it proves your theory wrong, then what? You would have to make changes that would cause contradictions to the site. If you changed the info to what i have been fucking telling you to change it to, then you won't have to change it in the future, but will only have to add information. After the release of 7, the end to the story no longer existed, which means there was no balance to the force, and therefore the prophecy was never fulfilled. This is on every canonical source that references the prophecy with episode 7. If Anakin was the Chosen One, something on his databank page should be able to confirm that, but nothing on his page does. Why is that? Maybe because the information on the bio is what is considered canon and the captions are only descriptions based off of individuals interpretations/theories of what took place. But you are too fucking scared to admit that because then it means having to admit that Anakin never brought balance to the force and everything you thought you knew about Star Wars is wrong. If you guys weren't afraid, you would give me a way to share the e-mail with you that proves your sources are unconfirmed. But instead you have to hide from the truth because it scares you. TonyPettengill (talk) 12:39, March 6, 2017 (UTC)
                • Look, I may not be an admin, but let me ask this simple question: if you're so adamant to show us that email, why don't you just upload it to any of a dozen image hosting websites and show it once and for all? For that matter, how exactly did you get in contact with that representative of SW.com? I cannot believe that statement until proven, and it's very easy to prove. You don't need the right to upload pics on Wookieepedia for that. Use xooimage or something, and then we'll talk. --Lelal Mekha The Uprising crest (Audience Room) 12:59, March 6, 2017 (UTC)
                  • Well first off it should be allowed to be posted here so the entire community haa a better opportunity to view it. But if I need to use an external site because the admins are too afraid to see it, I will. Most likely I am going to get banned before I can get back to my computer 9 hours from now, but if not I will. And it really isn't that hard to get a representative to contact you, I just filled out a form on their site for that.TonyPettengill (talk) 13:14, March 6, 2017 (UTC)
                    • You know, you COULD just upload the email to this site directly as a screencapture. That's what I did with a few email correspondences between myself and some Star Wars people and Ansel Hsiao. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 13:20, March 6, 2017 (UTC)
                    • I have tried, but I get the notification that is described by Lelal. So, no, up to this point I couldn't upload the image as a screencapture.TonyPettengill (talk) 13:48, March 6, 2017 (UTC)
                    • Now you're being paranoid. You can't upload pictures not because the admins don't want you to, that's just because you don't meet the three requirements everyone here has to meet before they can upload files: you must have: (1) an account that is at least four days old; (2) at least fifty edits on Wookieepedia; and (3) a confirmed email address in your preferences. --Lelal Mekha The Uprising crest (Audience Room) 13:23, March 6, 2017 (UTC)
                      • I do believe the notification does say something about being able to contact the admins to get permission as well. This also wouldn't prevent them from allowing me to forward the email to them directly and they could verify the legitamacy of the e-mail that way. It is not a matter of being paranoid. If they were willing to look at the email that states the caltions of inages on the starwars.com site cannot be confirmed as canon, they would find a way to allow that to happen.TonyPettengill (talk) 13:48, March 6, 2017 (UTC)
                      • Yeah, though I'll admit that the email recognition system on the Wikia has been a bit wonky considering a few times they inexpicably drop sending emails regarding new edits to your email server, and once, as has been the case here, even when I actually did give a confirmed email to the email recognition system, it still didn't recognize it, meaning I had to wait before I could start uploading any images before I asked a solution for the problem. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 13:34, March 6, 2017 (UTC)
                          • I think thsi has gone to far, we haven't seen any of your evidence and all of the other users agree that until another sources says that Anakin is not the choosen one, Anakin will remain as it is. This is a theory of yours and the wiki doesnt accepts theories. I'm sorry --DarthRuiz30 (talk) 15:14, March 6, 2017 (UTC)

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