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When Obi-Wan fights Grievous on Utapau, when they are near the fighter, Obi-Wan knocks Grievous’ blaster out of his hand with the electrostaff. This leaves an armed Jedi General standing before an unarmed opponent. Obi-Wan gets a few good hits on General Grievous before knocking him on his back. Obi-Wan then slams down the weapon onto Grievous’ chest. Granted, Grievous was fairly impervious to the electrostaff, and in the book it is mentioned that he wouldn’t arm his guards with weapons that could hurt him. But Obi-Wan still seems to not only be going against Soresu’s defensive training, but also against the Jedi Code in that he is attacking a completely unarmed opponent. Thoughts? —Unsigned comment by126.96.36.199 (talk • contribs).
"He is too dangerous to be left alive!" Ring any bells? The Code is merely an ideal, one that can be and frequently is, broken to some extent or another. Especially in wartime. Imagine how much blood heroes like Obi, Ani, Windu and Yoda had on their hands, even if that blood was spilled on the field of battle or in self-defense. DarthMRN 22:17, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
Even unarmed, Grievous is a formidable opponent. It would be crazy for Kenobi to stop fighting. -LtNOWIS 22:47, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
Grievous was unarmed like a grizzly bear is unarmed. He was still incredibly dangerous, and even the staff didn't give Obi-Wan a significant advantage. Havac 23:56, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
Actually, Obi-Wan was sent to capture Greivous. But he was forced to kill him. Jasca Ducato 20:20, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
"He's too dangerous to be left alive!" I'm not certain about that argument. First off, Mace says that knowing Sidious is the Dark Lord of the Sith, and has some "flashy" powers well beyond Grievous. Secondly, some think that Mace and his infatuation with Vapaad's darkness means that he was close to the dark side in that moment. Anakin's right. It's not the Jedi way! Sidious could have lived, imprisoned in the Jedi Temple, perhaps drained of his energy, guarded constantly. The Jedi are all about preserving life. All the blood spilled by Jedi is supposed to be in self-defense, which is permissable on the battlefield. Not to mention battle droids don't bleed. I agree that Grievous is one of the most dangerous unarmed beings in Star Wars, but something still strikes me as odd about Kenobi striking an enemy when he's down. It seems like, under Soresu, Obi-Wan would have taken a step back and tried to regain focus. Since he mastered Soresu, taking that moment to settle into a defensive mindset would have been an advantage, not a moment of weakness. Perhaps that is why Obi-Wan is a little blind to Grievous' kick when Kenobi strikes him. —Unsigned comment by188.8.131.52 (talk • contribs).
During the war, Obi-Wan spent a lot of time fighting alongside Anakin. Over the years, as more and more blood (or oil) was spilled, Obi may have become desperate and came to appreciate and even use some of Anakin's unorthodox, yet effective tactics, like not leaving the enemy alive. Also, what about their duel with Dooku in RotS? When Obi learned that Anakin had killed Dooku, did he reprimand him? No! In fact, more easily noted in the novelization, he's proud of Anakin's victory, and in the book, he tells Mace Windu how well his friend did.184.108.40.206 21:52, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
A very interesting idea, about Anakin rubbing off on Obi-Wan. But you must keep in mind, Obi-Wan was unconscious when Anakin defeated Dooku, and for all he knows, Anakin killed him in combat, he didn't disarm him and then murder him in cold blood. Such a dark thought might never have occurred to Obi-Wan, who clearly didn't expect Anakin to turn to the dark side ("it can't be!"). Obi-Wan killed Maul years before, and there's no doubt that was in self-defense. Maul was armed and had the high ground. Mace killed Jango Fett while the bounty hunter was firing upon him. I'm not saying Jedi can't kill in combat. But I think had Obi-Wan known the circumstances of Dooku's demise, or had he been conscious for it, the Jedi Master would have an extremely different opinion of Anakin's victory. But I must confess, I do like the idea of Anakin and Obi-Wan rubbing off on each other. It would explain their mirrored combat in their duel, not to mention it was Form V vs Form III.
Thanks for the compliment :). As for Obi-Wan vs. Maul, in part, he did kill him under Dark pretenses. He attacked viciously after Qui-Gon was killed, and performed a typical killing move on Maul by chopping him in half at the waist. Also, why didn't Obi realize what had happened on the Invisible Hand? Even though he was unconsious towards the end of the duel, he should have been able to sense Anakin's guilt in the aftermath.220.127.116.11 20:28, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Just like Vader should have sensed that Leia was his daughter and a strong Force sensitive aboard the Tantive IV or the Deat Star? Nah, sensing stuff with the Force only works when the story calls for it. DarthMRN 21:57, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Leia didn't know she was Force-Sensitive at that time, and she was nowhere near as powerful as Luke or Anakin. Perhaps Vader was so obsessed with finding his son, who was the more powerful one, that his extreme concentration blocked his mind off from smaller disturbances in the Force.18.104.22.168 22:11, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
Your guess is as good as mine, but that implies that you have to consciously reach out with the Force to sense stuff, and while that is a perfectly sound theory, it counters your own argument. If someone like Vader has to concentrate to sense the Force presence of a Skywalker standing right in front of him, surely Obi-Wan would have had to concentrate very hard to glean what had happened during the duel with Dooku. And why would he? Just as Vader had no reason for checking Leia's Force potency, Obi-Wan had no reason to sense what happened during the duel. DarthMRN 04:32, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Except that Anakin had a history of using his anger during a fight, and Obi-Wan knew this. He most certainly would have had a reason to sense what was going on during the duel.22.214.171.124 13:31, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
So, out of all the dangerous opponents Ani had engaged in a life and death duel, Obi would go out of his way to find out what had really happened with Dooku? Even if Ani told him afterwards: "Yeah, Master, I cut of his head and picked you up so we could escape the ship", I doubt Obi would have raised an eyebrow. They were engaged in a life and death duel with a very dangerous Sith Lord. That he died, even by beheading, isn't something to be suspicious about, especially with Anakin. He killed hordes of foes during the war, many of them not droids, I'm sure. Do you expect Obi to be on to Ani's past like a watchdog to sense bad behavior in all of those cases? And why would he care about the death of a Sith Lord? The existence of the Jedi Shadows strongly indicate that the Jedi ideal of not executing anyone was met with a bit more leeway when it came to darksiders. I just don't find Dooku's death to be the best place to start if you are a concerned master checking up on your Padawan's killing ethics. DarthMRN 13:59, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
The problem with that theory is that Anakin also had a history with Dooku. Dooku cut off his arm, so Anakin wanted revenge. Obi-Wan, being an old-school Jedi, knew revenge would lead to the Dark Side, and would not want Anakin to fall from the Light. In fact, right before the fight, Obi-Wan says to Anakin that they will take Tyrannus together. That clearly shows that he was concerned about Anakin's actions, and would be worried even more so when he was incapable of fighting with his friend.126.96.36.199 11:05, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Oooorrrr...he didn't wanna get stabbed again with a lightsaber. He probably didn't like it when that happened. It looked painful. --School of Thrawn 101 11:09, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Hey, if it was me in Anakin's place, I would have killed Dooku without a second thought. But Obi-Wan taught Anakin to not give into hatred, which Anakin was never very good at. So that brings us back to what I said originally.188.8.131.52 11:16, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
While it is justification for Obi to do such a thing, do you realize the amount of suspiscion and paranoia Obi would have had to find such a thing worthwhile? He knew Ani had gotten his revenge, maybe even that he had cut off both Dooku's hands and his head in the process. Regardless of his opinions on Ani's thirst for revenge, he must have considered that suficient to slake it. Why on earth would he suspect that Ani executed him? It is a stretch to even think Ani capable of putting someone like Dooku in such a situation in the first place, rather than killing him. Ani was pissed at someone, and killed him. Why would there be anything more to it? Come to think of it, the only reason Ani didn't kill him during the fight, was his adherence to the Jedi Code. If anger and revenge was the motivation, Ani would have killed him during the fight, and would have been blameless. If Obi was to search for the truth regarding something as obvious as that, he would have been crazy paranoid. DarthMRN 12:06, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Another thing you have to consider is that Obi-Wan knew that Palpatine had a significant influence over Anakin. Even though Obi didn't know he was Darth Sidious, he knew that there was something not right about him. That would definitely be another reason for Obi to mentally observe Anakin, to make sure that Palp wasn't goading him into doing something anti-Jedi, like executing an unarmed opponent for revenge.184.108.40.206 23:01, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
That is an argument I can prescribe to. He would have been suspicious about their meetings, but to go as far as spying on them? Particularly in a situation where they had almost no time to talk, as opposed to a real meeting in the chancellors office. Besides, Obi being the epitome of a boy-scout Jedi, would he use the Force to eavesdrop on someone's private conversations? Not without evidence beyond "I distrust politicians", methinks. DarthMRN 00:24, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
On a related note, I don't think that the EU, in it's portraying of the discovery of force-sensitives, agrees with the theory that one would have to be making a conscious effort to detect a "ripple" in the force. It strikes me that, in many cases, a Jedi simply stumbled upon a force-sensitive and happened to notice them. Also, Leia may not have been strong in the force, but the Jedi have a history of taking babies that create a "ripple" in the force for training. You're telling me that a baby was able to generate more of an effect upon the force than a fully mature Princess Leia, the daughter of Anakin Skywalker? Please. I refuse to believe that Leia's imprint on the force was so weak as to not be noticeable to someone as deeply associated with it as Darth Vader. So, we come back to the explanation that DarthMRN proposed, with which I fully agree. --School of Thrawn 101 09:35, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
It seems like, under Soresu, Obi-Wan would have taken a step back and tried to regain focus. Uh, how the heck can you take a step back when you're hanging on to a ledge for dear life? --Azizlight 13:39, 6 May 2007 (UTC)