This page is an archive of a community-wide discussion. This page is no longer live. Further comments or questions on this topic should be made in a new Knowledge Bank page rather than here so that this page is preserved as a historic record. jSarek 08:15, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
I know there are Force Ghosts. But Qui-gon only returned as a voice. In Attack of the Clones he says "No Anakin! No!" and in Revenge of the Sith (Deleted Scene) He talks to Yoda as a voice. So the first question is: How did he return as a voice and not a ghost. And question # 2 is: Sense Obi-wan & Yoda learned to become a force ghost, did you need to learn how to become a voice?
1-I don't know , but it could be that he had been dead too long to have a "body". 2-Yes, although I assume ghosts have voices without being trained about that specifically. Chack Jadson 02:14, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Although he rediscovered the technique of preserving one's consciousness in the Force (and I say rediscovered because others had this ability in the past, particularly in the Tales of the Jedi era), he hadn't mastered it completely, as his remaining body that did not disappear attests to. He could make contact with the living, but only distantly, as a voice; whereas Obi-Wan and Yoda, and then Anakin, who had mastered it more fully, could physically manifest themselves in the forms that they possessed during life. (I get this information from the Q&A section from a certain issue of Star Wars Insider.) 22.214.171.124 04:57, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Erm, no. Qui-Gon had mastered the Force Ghost thingy completely. But he has only been known to return as a voice. He could easily return as a ghost at any time he wanted. Remember, Obi-Wan only returned as a voice during the Battle of Yavin, but as a Ghost during the events of ESB. Jasca DucatoSith Council 20:16, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
And where are you getting that from? Obi-Wan mastered it more fully and was on a higher level of what he could do with that ability, thusly he could manifest himself as a spirit or a voice. Qui-Gon, however, never once appears as a spirit, in either the films or the EU, but is always a voice. 126.96.36.199 20:54, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
OK, tell me how exactly Yoda learnt to become a Force Ghost form someone who could only manifest himself as a voice? Because he did bloody well if he did. And if you want proof, see this image. Oh, look at that, a ghost. Wot-do-ya-know? I was right. Jasca DucatoSith Council 20:54, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
Oh my Lord, are you naive. That's a representation of Obi-Wan carrying on what Qui-Gon wanted him to do, and Qui-Gon being pleased with it. You don't actually think Qui-Gon appeared as a big, giant specter over the building as Obi-Wan and Anakin walked away, do you? So that image is a weak example. It's metaphorical, not literal. Also, we don't know how Yoda and Obi-Wan mastered the technique more fully than Qui-Gon, only that they were able to do so. It's not uncommon for a student to outdo his teacher in the knowledge of what he was learning from him once he's out on his own. Also, once again, I am getting this information from the Star Wars Insider's Q&A, straight from Lucas Film themselves. Where does your information come from? Or are those guys lying to us? (And again: both the movies and the EU back this up. Qui-Gon never once appears physically, only in the form of a voice. Always.)188.8.131.52 22:04, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
Honestly, I see weak points in both your arguments. If Yoda and Obi outdid Gui-Gon, how on earth could Vader learn it so bloody quickly? And why didn't they share their relevations with him once they had it? On the other hand, since quigs never has appeared as a ghost, died without any body-vanish, and rediscovered an old technique only after death, the most obvious assumption until canon tells us otherwise, is that he couldn't manifest in ghost form. DarthMRN 03:28, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for all the answers, you guys do have good points. But Darth MRN i don't think Vader had to learn it. He was born from the force, he was the chosen one, he was made by medichlorians, so he audimadically became a force ghost. Although Vader never dissapeared as Obi-wan and Yoda did.
That's not what George Lucas has to say about this matter. In the commentary on the Return of the Jedi DVD, Lucas said that Anakin was able to preserve his consciousness "because of Obi-Wan and Yoda." In one of the original drafts of the script, it has the spirits of Obi-Wan and Yoda showing up and "catching" Anakin's soul before it can fade away. I've also heard that it had a lot to do with his selfless sacrifice to save his son. Take these three sentiments and combine them into one, and we get something like this: Anakin's martyric death was the first step. It allowed his soul to exist for a least a little while after death before being dissolved into the Force. During this time, he is confronted by Obi-Wan and Yoda who give him a crash course in the technique for preserving one's consciousness, likely frantically training him as quickly as possible before he faded away. (Though time may very well flow differently in the Netherworld of the Force, so what may have been a few minutes in the corporeal cosmos might have been equivalent to a lifetime in the afterlife, which may have been all the time Anakin needed to perfect the technique.) Finally, Anakin mastered it just as fully as Obi-Wan and Yoda had, at which point his body disappeared. (It is canon that he did so, and that Luke burned only the Vader suit.) This, I think, is why he wasn't shown disappearing immediately upon death, and did so off-camera: he needed a few moments to learn the technique from his companions in the afterlife first. (Plus, having Anakin's body fade off-camera adds an element of suspense: we worry for him. Did he manage to save himself and make up for a lifetime of slaughter withing a few minutes of his death, or did he fade away into oblivion? We got our answer at the end of the film.) His status as the Chosen One may have had something to do with it, but I doubt it. It makes the Force seem unfair, with others having to learn the technique while Anakin can just sit back, be evil, kill people, and have it happen by default. (The prequels have already made the Force look unfair enough by telling us that only certain people can become Jedi because of genetics; and that only certain people have to perfect some technique in order to live on after death. We don't need to make it look any more unjust by having Anakin lazily become a Force ghost without any work at all.) That's my take on things, based on canonical information. 184.108.40.206 19:03, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
Once again. Very good points. Thanks. I also thought that maybe he just didn't choose to come back as a ghost. Like at first Obi-wan came as a voice to luke at the battle of yavin. So maybe he wanted to come as a voice instead.