This page is an archive of a community-wide discussion. This page is no longer live. Further comments or questions on this topic should be made in a new Senate Hall page rather than here so that this page is preserved as a historic record. Toprawa and Ralltiir 07:38, February 25, 2012 (UTC)

This forum post continues the train of thought from the Consular-class retrofit talk page in a more open setting, since these concerns aren't about improving the Consular-class retrofit article.

I can see where people could have concerns about canon. I consider The Clone Wars cartoon to be little more than Republic propaganda, because of the numerous retcons it has caused, like the retconning of Episode III by the Tantive IV dramatic reversal retcon (as I have come to call it) that made a mess of Corla Metonae's story, Anakin Skywalker fighting IG-100 MagnaGuards before Coruscant in the cartoon, and the existence of Ahsoka Tano, frustrate me. Ignoring the beginning of Coruscant Nights I: Jedi Twilight with Even Piell's death in a TCW episode (not that I have read the novel), when the novel was recent enough it could have been avoided, is extremely disappointing. This kind of behavior is simply bad practice for a universe that has a continuity hierarchy.

In my opinion, these problems, and numerous other continuity issues, are major problems.

The Eclipse-class and the Sovereign-class Star Dreadnoughts are extremely irritating, when the Executor-class being a Star Dreadnought is sufficient evidence for the Eclipse and the Sovereign-class SSDs to be Star Dreadnoughts also.

The Imperial-class Star Battlecruiser/Allegiance/Imperial Star Battlecruiser/Star Destroyer-class battlecruiser are a big mess, because the Imperial-class SSD has a similar problem as the Eclipse and the Sovereign-classes only it should be a Star Battlecruiser not a Star Dreadnought, the Allegiance should be a named representative of the Imperial-class Star Battlecruiser, and Imperial Star Battlecruiser/Star Destroyer-class Battlecruiser should be alternate names for them.

The Strident-class Star Defender is a complete and total disaster thanks to the ambiguity presented in the novel Betrayal.

The Heavy Assault Vehicle/transport B5 Juggernaut is annoying, because it isn't like EaW and FoC aren't notorious for causing problems, like Wayland being in the EaW campaign, the creation of Mandal Hypernautics when MandalMotors already manufactured many of the same ships and vehicles (with their similar names and overlapping product catalogs, Mandal Hypernautics must a subsidiary of MandalMotors), and the StarViper-class attack platform being available before Yavin.

The Turbulent-class and the Rejuvenator-class Star Destroyers are little more than names at the moment thanks to the authors that created them.

The Republic-class cruiser is little more than another name for the Republic-class Star Destroyer as far as I am concerned, since they are from the same era, and haven't been mentioned or described adequately in any other sources.

The New Class Modernization Program ships not appearing during the New Jedi Order era beyond reference books, when the galaxy was facing perhaps its greatest threat, and the general lack of concern for the existing Bantam continuity by the post-GCW Del Rey novels are terrible, terrible mistakes.

But its not like I can really do anything about any of these problems, is there? Zeta1127 of the 89th Legion (talk) 07:27, August 26, 2011 (UTC)

The canon destroying the TCW has done is well documented unfortunatly T-canon (TV-canon) surpasses all but G-canon (Anything from George Lucas) in continuity and most books fall on Under C-canon which is directly below T-canon. The producers just have 0 respect for existing canon GTQ^(Problems?) 20:49, August 26, 2011 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I know all about the levels of canon and understand what you mean, but the really annoying thing is TCW has retconned G-canon of Episode III as I mentioned, and I simply can't stand it. I have been hoping I wasn't the only one who noticed these problems. Zeta1127 of the 89th Legion (talk) 21:57, August 26, 2011 (UTC)

I am firmly of the opinion that Wookieepedia needs to revise its canon policy. George Lucas is only human and cannot be seen as infallible in matters of continuity. In fact, his own statements reveal that he actually harbors a certain amount of contempt for the work more talented authors than himself have contributed to the Star Wars universe. My belief is that the novels of the Expanded Universe should carry equal weight with the six films, as many novels (i.e. Thrawn Trilogy) actually are better artistic works. TCW should be considered strictly non-canon because of its glaring blunders in continuity and its horrible writing and voice-overs. . Out-of-universe sources such as the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia should not be considered legitimate because of their second-hand nature; only in-universe materials should be used as sources. I urge the administrators of Wookieepedia to think about these matters and at least allow discussion to take place over whether a policy revision is needed. McJediProbie 00:06, August 27, 2011 (UTC)

You are welcome to your opinion, but Wookieepedia hews as closely to Lucasfilm's official take on canon as possible. To do otherwise would make the site less informative and less useful. People don't come here to see what *our* take on Star Wars is; they want to see what the official take is, be it right or wrong, silly or sane. We can't always represent that perfectly, because we're no less human and fallible than Lucas is, but that is no reason to voluntarily abandon our mission of being the best possible reference source for the official content of the Star Wars franchise. jSarek 02:53, August 27, 2011 (UTC)

Well said JSarek, but I too wish that the levels fo Canon could be rearranged. You have some sway with official stuff JSarek. Maybe you could do something. :p Cal Jedi ^{(Personal Comm Channel)} 03:01, August 27, 2011 (UTC)

I'll get right on that, just as soon as I'm done carrying home the Golden Gate Bridge on my back and completing the Grand Unified Theory of Physics. You know, take care of the easy stuff first. :-p jSarek 06:33, August 27, 2011 (UTC)

Hey, it could happen. You won't know until you give it a try.

The problem is, I don't think Lucasfilm has the guts to de-canonize TCW, because it is destructive to existing canon. Leeland Chee is just pushing forward with retconning any conflicts TCW is causing, when there will be no end to the conflicts. You don't create a TV series in a previously established time period, and just expect it to follow existing canon without taking extreme care with continuity, which they are simply not doing! Zeta1127 of the 89th Legion (talk) 18:05, August 27, 2011 (UTC)

The problem is Lucasfilm itself. George Lucas has been having serious lapses in judgment for the last few years and runs the company in such a way that no one can do anything about it. Sue Rostoni was probably the only rationally thinking person in a position to fix the problems, but now she's retired. I'll probably be burned at the stake for suggesting it, but I think the best way for a legitimate, working canon to be established is to make Lucasfilm a Lucas- free zone.McJediProbie 20:30, August 27, 2011 (UTC)

The point is something needs to be done. Zeta1127 of the 89th Legion (talk) 20:36, August 27, 2011 (UTC)

But who has the guts to actually do it?McJediProbie 20:51, August 27, 2011 (UTC)

Um, I have read this discussion and I really don't understand what will be accomplished by it. We are all just fans of Star Wars; we don't have any say in continuity, and the best we can hope for is that someone at LucasFilm will explain all of the inconsistencies. In my opinion, until we have an explanation from someone at LucasFilm, all we can do is write articles the best that we can, and explain any incosistencies in the behind the scenes sections. There have been conflicts that have been dealt with and we can only hope that any existing conflicts will be dealt with as well. Frankly, the levels of Canon are going to be whatever LucasFilm says, and LucasFilm will go in whatever direction that George Lucas wants it to go in. We can only do our best to represent the information in the clearest way possible. I dislike all of the incosistencies, but there is really very little that anyone here can do about it. Well, I just wanted to voice my opinion, I hope I didn't step on anyone's toes in doing so.--Exiled Jedi (Greetings) 22:31, August 27, 2011 (UTC)

Exiledjedi is right. This discussion should be continued somewhere else. It's not helping Wookieepedia at the moment since we don't have authority on what is and isn't canon. I do hope though that something can be done to "save" continuity. Maybe that will be my job. :p Cal Jedi ^{(Personal Comm Channel)} 00:51, August 28, 2011 (UTC)