This page is an archive of a community-wide discussion. This page is no longer live. Further comments or questions on this topic should be made in a new Senate Hall page rather than here so that this page is preserved as a historic record. —MJ— ^{Jedi Council Chambers} 18:52, November 13, 2012 (UTC)

Reading the article about the species Iktotchi, it states that they were first discovered approx around 3,500 BBY. However in the book The Essential Atlas, on page 120 it states that their homeworld was discovered between 20,000 BBY to 15,000 BBY. I noticed the article doesn't appear to show what source it got this information but is it possible that this is false? --Victory93 03:02, June 21, 2012 (UTC)

• Hmm. There are a few possibilities, I think. One, yes, our article may be mistaken. Two, there could be a canon conflict. Three, the planet may have been discovered long before the species was. It's also possible that the region of space around Iktotch was explored before 15,000 BBY (if you're basing your supposition on one of the maps therein), but the planet itself eluded discover for some time afterward. What is the context of the mention in the Atlas that you're referring to? ~Savage 20:16, June 21, 2012 (UTC)

Well the page I'm referring to is the map titled galactic explorations which can be found here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/File:GalacticExplorations.jpg The orange section is the area which had been explored between 20,000 BBY to 15,000 BBY which you can see Iktotch is located there. It is possible the space around the planet was explored but the planet itself wasn't yet settled on, however there's no information stating that other than what you see in the map. --Victory93 00:13, June 22, 2012 (UTC)

• We've been assuming that if a planet is actually listed on a map, it can be assumed to have been discovered and part of whatever bounds it falls into, whether that be the galactic explorations or some empire or another. So, if Iktotch is actually shown on that map, our practice here is to assume it had been discovered. But, again, it's possible the planet was discovered (or the system, since the Atlas lists systems, not planets), but the species had not yet been. Nice catch; perhaps you should add something to the "Behind the scenes" section of the Iktotchi article! ~Savage 02:22, June 22, 2012 (UTC)

I have entered this into the behind the scenes section of both Iktotchi and Iktotch. One thing I'd like to also point out, the map also shows planets or at least systems like Rattatak, Kalee, Dubrillion, Aeten and Endor to be discovered or at least colonized after 1000 BBY. However, we can see these planets or at least systems and their species are already known and seen during the events of Star Wars: The Old Republic. The novel Red Harvest (novel) establishes that Endor was already known years prior to the events of SWTOR and was the location of a secret Republic bio-lab; however this was published in 2010, one year after the Atlas. If two sources appear to conflict, which should we go by? Presumably narrative over reference until a final official statement can be made (but in the case of Iktotch, there's no narrative which states the year of their discoverey)? --Victory93 03:18, June 22, 2012 (UTC)

• In cases of conflicting sources, we tend to privilege whichever was published later, keeping whatever elements of the former source as seems feasible, but noting the contradictions in the "Behind the scenes" section. There's also a {{Twoconflicting}} template that can be slapped on a page to indicate that there are contradictions ahoy. ~Savage 10:52, June 22, 2012 (UTC)
  • We should also take into account that planets can be forgotten and re-discovered later. Taral, Dark Lord of the Sith ^{-Just shy, not antisocial: You can talk to me!-} 12:47, June 25, 2012 (UTC)
• I've contacted Jason Fry via the email address Lucasfilm has available on the official Star Wars website for any questions in regards to The Essential Atlas and any others regarding to the Star Wars universe. He's sent me a reply with his answer about Iktotch as well as to a number of other questions I've asked him about other worlds and sectors. Can we in anyway use this as a valid reference even though it's not officially published? --Victory93 00:23, June 26, 2012 (UTC)
  • Also I did eventually find the source which states the Iktotchi were first discovered circa 3,500 BBY. Page 219 of The New Essential Guide to Alien Species. With both of these conflicting sources, Jason has provided me with an explanation in the email. --Victory93 00:43, June 26, 2012 (UTC)
    • I think it's been done in the past to use personal emails as sources, but it's incredibly rare. Can anyone think of an example from one of our articles? In the meantime, Victory, what did Mr. Fry say? ~Savage 11:05, June 27, 2012 (UTC)
      • I'm surprised that it's not actually reffed in the article, but that Bib Fortuna was in a TCW comic was confirmed that way. As well, Karen Miller once said via e-mail she utilized Wookieepedia in her studies for her TCW books. It's a perfectly legit strategy if they actually respond. NaruHina ^Talk 13:39, June 27, 2012 (UTC)
• This is what Jason Fry told me via email in regards to one of the questions I asked him, this about Iktotch:

"Re Iktotch, authors tend to use planets/species they like without regard to whether that planet/species have been discovered at the time of their story. Which is why you get lots of patches of exploration, particularly in the northern part of the galaxy. A frustrating thing to deal with, but Dan and I eventually just accepted it as a fact of being continuity wranglers. I don't recall the specifics of why Iktotch was in such a patch; you could certainly argue their area of space was known long before they were, or perhaps they'd been contacted but that contact was lost and then re-established."

If possible for the future when there's something which remains unanswered however we're able to get an answer via email from an author or representative of Lucasfilm, we could have it published on the wiki in a special section and have reference links directed to that until it's officially published. I've sent another email featuring more quesions regarding things I've found. If anybody else would like to ask some questions regarding the Star Wars universe and some continuity concerns, this is the address which is published on the official Star Wars website: essential.atlas@gmail.com which is found via here: http://www.starwars.com/atlas/ --Victory93 (talk) 01:27, June 28, 2012 (UTC)

I think the way we usually do this is to have the person who received the email take a screenshot of it for proof, black out personal information (email addresses, your real name, etc.), upload it to the wiki, and then reference the screenshot. —MJ— ^Holocomm Friday, June 29, 2012, 01:38 UTC

• Sure I'll be able to do that. Once I upload it, where/how should I link it or present it to? --Victory93 (talk) 01:43, June 29, 2012 (UTC)
  • Post it here, for starters. Type it in like this: [[:File:Name.jpg|Here's the screenshot]]. NaruHina ^Talk 01:45, June 29, 2012 (UTC)

• Here's the email which Jason Fry had sent me:

Here
The questions which I asked are as follow:

1. Were the Iktotchi or the Iktotch system discovered between 20,000 BBY to 15,000 BBY or in 3,500 BBY as stated in The New Essential Guide to Alien Species?
2. What are the grid co-ordinates of the Null Zone?
3. Are the worlds Raxus and Raxus Prime related?
4. Will there be a second edition of the Essential Atlas or an update for the Online Companion?

--Victory93 (talk) 02:24, June 29, 2012 (UTC)

• • Woot! they're still working on Region maps! I feared LFL's recent trend towards downsizing had kiboshed that kind of stuff. DD97^{Which bear is best?} 14:26, July 3, 2012 (UTC)
    • Sweet! Expansion Region sectors to come soon! :) -- Riffsyphon1024 07:31, July 4, 2012 (UTC)