This page is an archive of a community-wide discussion. This page is no longer live. Further comments or questions on this topic should be made in a new Senate Hall page rather than here so that this page is preserved as a historic record. 1358(Talk) 13:39, November 22, 2011 (UTC)
The title is self-explanatory but to be more specific, the appearances section in these articles: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords, and Star Wars: The Old Republic, are REALLY long. I was told that they are supposed to auto-hide and although I have seen it auto-hide a couple of times, refreshing causes it to un-hide and the button disappears entirely. If one were to actually measure out the actual length of the page, I would not be surprised if it were to be longer than some/most people are tall, with a significant portion of it being mainly on appearances. Exhibit A: [] I'd say the plot summary is already quite wordy, I don't mind that, but when moving down the page, I have to scroll down, and down, and down, and down.. I'm sure you get the picture. Despite the plot summary being quite wordy in its own right, the appearances section occupies roughly half the entire length of the article, and thats with the voice cast section in its own scroll box!
I mentioned in the talk page for Star Wars: The Old Republic that if, for whatever reason the need to list everything and anything that ever appeared in that particular media in question, or rather when the game is released, shall we continue to add on to the list of weapons, items, mobs, quests, NPCs, skills, talents, abilities, etc. etc. etc. simply because they appeared in the game? You won't have like a couple of each of those things, maybe a dozen, in total, per section; you'll have a couple dozen or even hundreds of people/items/locations, all within the game! It is an MMORPG after all. Do you want an index? Or a wiki article? Perhaps a category page? <-- This is an example of what I mean when I say the appearances section is too long.
Well, whatever your views on what I raised in the previous paragraph, is there a way to either auto-hide by default OR put the whole thing in its own scroll box? Unless you don't agree that it is very long as it stands currently? It is most certainly not reader friendly. Songjin 05:26, March 29, 2011 (UTC)
I'm all against snipping any information off, as you suggested elsewhere. Without going into details as I do not have time to dig up this matter right now, the autohide generally works but in some cases there's something that blocks it, and usually that something is out of our control (Wikia or the users browser). I also wouldn't like immediately for placing those lists into scroll box.
In more general business, welcome to the internet community, where learning the local culture first is always encouraged. (; –Tm_T(Talk) 05:47, March 29, 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for the welcome, if thats what it truly is, I can evidently see that this is indeed part of the culture. Do the needs of the community and the editors come before those of the readers? This isn't some private forum meant solely for registered users; other people do read it y'know.
Perhaps it is a browser thing; I've tried it on Mozilla and IE and it seems to work fine except on my Chrome. Why not scroll boxes? Just curious, you didn't state a reason.
And does anybody get what I'm trying to say when I talk about the future of the game's article? Or are you seriously going to create articles on everything and anything that appeared in the game itself? Perhaps a higher article count is what is desired by this community? I created my account because I have been frustrated with the extravagantly looooong pages and wanted to voice my opinions. At least give it a thought before you deem my comments as rubbish or "simply not done" or too unorthodox. Cheers Songjin 07:17, March 29, 2011 (UTC)
Our welcome is genuine, and I can assure you that so long as an opinion is offered in good faith and clearly stated, it will never be dismissed out-of-hand by the denizens of Wookieepedia. If any proposal is eventually decided to be unfeasible or contrary to the site's policies, please don't take it as a personal slight or the result of political maneuvering. I at least consider anonymous readers to be as much a part of the community as contributors.
I'm not an expert at web coding, but your situation is intriguing, as the default setting is to auto-hide the appearances. I seem to remember there being some discussion in years past about scroll-boxing the Appearances, and that it was some how too complicated a for the freelancers to do in a timely fashion. Or something like that. It may come down to having to weigh the balance of viewing Wookieepedia in comfort and using Chrome while doing so. I speak from experience on that note, as I have no love for doing my taxes in IE but I make the switchover nonetheless.
As far as any intent to catalog the content of an MMORPG, you need look no further than Star Wars Galaxies to see how we roll, and while it's not as lengthy as the KOTOR articles it certainly attempts to be as comprehensive (it probably could stand to be expanded, actually. Shame so few play it any more). This is very probably the same way events will unfold with TOR. Wouldn't be surprised to see a dedicated TOR wiki pop up at some time in the near future, either.
As a reference work, wikis like this one are predicated towards "inclusionism," which is to say the compilation of as much information on a given subject as is possible (though you will find advocates of the converse). As the saying goes, it's not as if the Internet is going to run out of room anytime soon, and fans like me enjoy the sort of research and prose that goes into construction of articles, regardless of the eventual expanse. It would be unfortunate if this tendency, combined with the technical glitches, turns you off personally to sticking around. Another thing we can never have to much of is contribution. But it is and will remain your choice to stay. DD97Which bear is best? 00:04, March 30, 2011 (UTC)
Songjin, my intention wasn't shut you out or anything, just kindly hinting that if someone comes and begins to point out how we are doing things wrong without knowing all the lengthy debates that may have predated the current policies, it seems a bit hostile. Technical issues are another story, with proper description and enough details they might be fixed, although it's not always on our hands. –Tm_T(Talk) 07:04, March 30, 2011 (UTC)
Oh, I apologise for coming forth as too hostile. I admit I read too much into your reply which sounded very much like a putting-down-the-newbie. Actually, I did check out some of the CT archives on this matter before posting, but that debate was a while ago so I thought it'd be more relevant with the (hopefully) impending release of SW:TOR. What would the stand be on article stubs? Like Zabrak blaster pistol, Eriadu stealth unit, Droid light plating type 2 etc. This is actually the second part of the issue I raised regarding the whole "index" status of the appearances section. Is there a need for an article that states that "insert in-game description this item appeared here, and can be bought here for how many credits + "insert screenshot" " Perhaps merging all these smaller articles into a few tables would be nicer, with simple headers like "name" with item icon-thing, with stats, in-game location, short description.. Well you get the picture. I sincerely hope no one is doing this to make the article count go up!! Quality vs quantity! :D
Anyway, thank you for your views, they are rather enlightening. And of course I'm going to stick around! :) Songjin 09:18, March 30, 2011 (UTC)
A quick (bit offtopic?) comment, this long article has some good insights about how to (not) defect unpurposedly, that is something I have to remind myself every day after failing. (: –Tm_T(Talk) 10:18, March 30, 2011 (UTC)
WOW I've been looking for something like that! Had the idea floating around but this sums it up quite nicely (quite ironic since its so long) Well, can I say that 1)sorry for being sarcastic and everything I was a little touchy because I suppose I was using this as a means to rant and rave about my undying hatred for super long lists when it turned out to be a browser problem ie. a technical issue 2)this "inclusionism" policy that User:Dangerdan97 talked about seems to be a community culture so I shall let this matter rest. What I should be talking about would be the creation of too many item pages that are just one liners, with a screen shot of the item as it appears in-game, and maybe eventually proposing a merge or table-like format like what they have on WoWwiki take a look here. Eventually. Well! That said and done, thank you everyone for your views! ps. how do you close this thread? Cheers Songjin 13:04, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
An administrator will close the thread eventually. 1358(Talk) 13:09, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
Songjin, feel free to expand those one line stubs. We shouldn't delete them, but rather improve them. Besides, we don't wanna see our article count go down anymore after the recent purge of unsources year articles. :P MasterFred(Whatever) 13:26, March 31, 2011 (UTC)