This page is an archive of a community-wide discussion. This page is no longer live. Further comments or questions on this topic should be made in a new Senate Hall page rather than here so that this page is preserved as a historic record. Graestan(Talk) 21:14, February 1, 2011 (UTC)
I'd like to call into question our wiki's identification of certain characters from the Cantina sequence, which conflict with the identification of characters by the Cantina Roll-Call page on the official site. I'd made these concerns known on talk pages, but no one seemed to pay attention, so I thought it'd be wise to take the discussion here, where more people might take notice of it. The characters at issue are...
Trinto Duaba and Unidentified gold-skinned man: I think these two may very well be the same character. At the very least, the UGSM's skin is not gold, as can be seen in the clear picture of his table under Hem Dazon's entry in The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia. I would also argue that the masks are the same; the area around the eyes looks identical, for one. The Cantina Roll-Call also lists Trinto with the group sitting at the table UGSM sits at.
Rachalt Hyst and Zutton: According to the Roll-Call, Zutmore, the Snivvian seen in the Holiday Special, is Zutton. Leland Chee says this Snivvian is Hyst, but he's been mistaken before (he said Tarpals had no first name and that Wooof and Klaatu are the same character), so, no disrespect to him, I think the evidence is in favor of the Holiday Special Snivvian being Zutton and Hyst being a creation of Decipher "Image magic". Of note, the "Zutton" action figure uses the picture of the Holiday Special Snivvian, and the CCG "Zutton" is actually Takeel, edited to have more hair and given a blue jacket.
Mosep Binneed and Tawss Khaa: According to the Roll-Call, the Nimbanel seen as Luke and company head to Docking Bay 94 is Mosep. Decipher used a picture of this Nimbanel to represent Khaa, but that might be yet another instance of "Image magic."
I hope we can talk this over. Flame Deity 23:48, December 24, 2010 (UTC)
The person to ask about this would be Sompeetalay. You should perhaps drop him a line on his talk page with a link to this discussion to get his attention. ~ SavageBob 23:57, December 24, 2010 (UTC)
Hi guys. The issues we're dealing with are not always that easy. I'll let you know what my opinion is about these cases, because it sometimes depends on our own point of view. Please contact me again if needed.
Trinto vs Unknown Guy: They are not one and the same. Their faces are totally different. The unknown guy has a moustache as well, which Duaba certainly does not have. Leland Chee once said (please, don't ask me when) that they could be the same guys, but they just don't look like eachother. The 2nd guy simply hasn't gotten a name yet (as do so many things from the movies).
Rachalt vs Zutton: This is a tough pickle. GG12 mentions Zutton and we get a picture of the Snivvian from the HS. But Zutton is closely linked to Takeel (his brother) and we all know that lack of decent pictures of Snivvians has caused more than one misunderstanding in the past ('Blue Snaggletooth'). I'd just keep it the way WP & YP have it. Zutton being a (the?) 2nd Snivvian in the Cantina (wearing a greenish outfit, check YP for a screencap) and Rachalt being the Snivvian from the HS. There is evidence on pictures that there were more Snivvians in the Cantina / Mos Eisley and that just one of them has a hunchback (= Takeel). And yes, both GG12 & Hasbro have named the Snivvian in the HS as Zutton, but I believe that was because they simply didn't know any better. I know that Ackmena calls the Snivvian 'Zutmore' but she could mean somebody else or even mix Rachalt up with Zutton. Decipher messed up a lot of cards with their own images but all of their Holiday Special characters did match up eventually. And when you remember the story 'Spare Parts', you'll remember that Zutton and Takeel are never far away from eachother. And if Zutton is the Snivvian from the HS, then who is the other Snivvian in the Cantina? Since we have enough names to give in this case, I wouldn't alter anything about Rachalt & Zutton.
Mosep vs Tawss: This could have been solved so easily if Decipher had chosen to name an unnamed Nimbanel in the Cantina (near the exit) as Tawss. On YP I've used a promotional picture of a Nimbanel for Mosep and the screenshot from Mos Eisley for Tawss. The Mosep Decipher card just uses a promotional picture while the Tawss card does feature an image of the character in the movie itself. Since we have proof of at least one Nimbanel and her exact position in the movie (which we don't have for Mosep based on Decipher) I suggest to confirm Tawss' position in ANH. The roll-call article is great, but Tawss is seen when Luke enters Docking Bay 94, not when he went to sell his X-34. If they would just give the unnamed Nimbanel in Jabba's Palace the name of Mosep, this issue could be solved quickly. Not a single Nimbanel that is easily spotted in the movies has ever explicitly been identified as Mosep Binneed. --Sompeetalay 01:30, December 25, 2010 (UTC)
Are you absolutely sure it's a mustache and not just a trick of the light? And here's some other points for consideration:
Trinto: If you ask me, the placing of Trinto in the roll call, which goes roughly by order of appearance, seems to indicate that the position of the official site is that this guy is Trinto. I'll try to scan the picture that gives a better view of him from my copy of the CSWE to make it clearer.
Snivvians: This is interesting because, frankly, I'm pretty sure Decipher screwed up with the cards here. As has been pointed out over at Talk:Zutton, there were two Snivvians in the Cantina: one balding and one with a full head of hair. The balding one is the one with the hunchback, making this one Takeel, and I'm fairly sure Decipher used pictures of the same Snivvian for its "Takeel" and "Zutton" cards; on "Zutton," though, more hair is edited in and his shirt turned blue. The "Zutton" picture, if you watch the movie, is pretty clearly the balding Snivvian, as he reacts to Greedo being shot. Now, that doesn't mean the card picture isn't a valid picture of Zutton, just that Decipher could've chosen its image better. The other Snivvian, by the way, is the one talking to the pig-nosed man. Is this the actual Zutton?
Nimbanese: Again, Decipher seem to have messed up here. There were two Nimbanel suits, one with long white sideburns and one with short red sideburns. What appears to have happened is that Decipher used the same suit for two characters, leaving the red-haired Nimbanel with two names and the white-haired one with no name.
So, basically, it's not that we've mistaken identities here, but that two canon sources, primarily the card game and the Roll-Call, have mistaken identities. So, which takes precedence over the other? Flame Deity 01:38, December 26, 2010 (UTC)
FWIW, this same confusion exists for the cantina's two Lutrillians; both have been identified as Solomahal, but that leaves one of them nameless. In this case, the Decipher image comes from the Holiday Special, and our article uses only images that have been positively identified as Solomahal, leaving the ambiguous ones for the other Lutrillian's article and "Behind the scenes" sections. Perhaps this is the best we can do for the conflated identities outlined above, too? In other words, rather than us making a call, I'd say it's best to privilege one source (perhaps the more recently published in the case of two conflicting ones) and to carefully outline the ambiguity in the "Behind the scenes" sections of the articles. ~ SavageBob 16:12, December 26, 2010 (UTC)
As to the Lutrillians (and the Snivvians), I found this picture on a site called Cantina Customs, which may be useful. It shows both Lutrillian suits. The Roll-Call identifies this suit design as being Solomahal, perhaps it would be possible to match up the suits? I think it looks like the one without the scarf, myself. Flame Deity 22:16, December 26, 2010 (UTC)
UPDATE: It would seem that the non-balding Snivvian also had a hunchback: as seen here. This is the one the Roll-Call site calls takeel, and also the one the "Takeel" action figure was designed after, so this one must be Takeel. That means Decipher was probably right identifying the balding Snivvian as Zutton (though not in giving him more hair) Hmm. Flame Deity 14:28, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
Sorry to have skipped this discussion. If Decipher messed things up, Lucasfilm (or Leland) needs to correct the mistakes officially. As long as there is no rectification, we must go by what Decipher created. Zutton however is not wearing a blue shirt, but a green shirt, as seen on the screenshot used on Yodapedia. Regarding Solomahal: it does indeed seem that the picture comes from the HS, but in Chronicles that same picture (but larger) is added to the Cantina sequence. And since I linked his backstory to Tzizvvt's I think it's safe to assume that he's the Lutrillian sitting next to Tzizvvt in the Cantina :) --Sompeetalay 23:57, January 7, 2011 (UTC)
The thing is, it's not that Decipher is wrong, it's that it's actually contradicted by other sources, namely the Roll-Call. Should we note the contradiction, or should we prioritize the Roll-Call above or below the card game? Someone should go to Leland about this... Flame Deity 00:27, January 10, 2011 (UTC)
Another one to take into consideration is Little Aunt Beru. We've got her at a page called Unidentified short woman. All of the images there, however, seem to be of a male actor named Geoffrey Moon. I've raised the issue at Talk:Unidentified short woman. It's possible that because of the Lucasfilm misidentification of this character, Geoffrey Moon is now a woman in-universe. I doubt he was the original Little Aunt Beru, though. Who was she? ~ SavageBob 06:57, January 17, 2011 (UTC)