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Forums > Senate Hall archive > SH Archive/Holocrons and Sith apprentices

I was wondering, since Darth Desolous became a Sith Lord through apprenticing himself to Darth Phobos' holocron, shouldn't we list XoXaan and Darth Revan as informal masters of Darths Krayt and Bane, respectively? Is there any reason why we shouldn't? I think it's pretty clear that he (Desolous) became a Sith only under her (Phobos) guidance, and it is unlikely he trained under Darth Vader or Darth Sidious.--Jedi Kasra 05:47, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

  • This has been discussed before, and it was decided that holocrons cannpt act as Masters. However, if we're going to have Darth Desolous as Darth Phobos' apprentice, I believe that decision should be changed. Jasca Ducato Sith Council 12:32, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Well, should we discuss this here, or is this something that gets discussed at Inquisitor meetings, or what?--Jedi Kasra 14:05, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
    • No, I think we can discuss it here. I also think that a Sith (or a non-Sith Force user) whose only teacher was a holocron could have that holocron's maker listed as his or her master (with the note that it was via holocron.) However, I think that student should not be listed as one of the holocron maker's apprentices. —Silly Dan (talk) 14:55, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
      • In Darth Bane: Rule of Two, it describes a holocron as containing not only the sum of the creator's knowledge, but also their cognative process. To include a cognitive process would mean any information would be from the view of the creator, which would include their emphasis on certain things (eg Belia Darzu on Alchemy). Isn't that practically a virtual representation of the creator, including their own personality? And if so, couldn't a holocron technically be a master? |Although i agree with Dan that a student of a holocron should not be marked as an apprentice - apprentices should only be classed as such if they were taught by the real-life master. Darth Xadún 11:40, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
  • That's a good point that you make with the Holocron masters. But with those Sith who had masters before they went to the holocrons, couldn't they just have their virtual masters put as "(Informal)"?--Jedi Kasra 20:09, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
"Those words rang especially true for Bane, as of the programmed personality of his virtual master sensed it was nearing its end and had tailored its last lessons especially for him."
―Darth Bane: Path of Destruction[src]

So Bane did consider Revan one of his masters, even though Revan was long dead.--Jedi Kasra 21:16, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

      • So? If I read a book by Adam Smith and then say, "Adam Smith was my virtual master", does that give me license to call myself Smith's "apprentice"? No. QuentinGeorge 11:15, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
        • That would depend on whether you outlined you own theories on his beliefs. Also, learning from a holocron is not like learning from a book. It holds the memories, thoughts, opinions and knowledge of the creator. It can judge when a user of the holocorn is ready to be given access to certain information. This means a holocron is essentially a Force-embuned articifially intelligent and physically aware source of information. Since their are robotic teachers IU, surely a holocron could be considered a master. Darth Xadún 11:40, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
          • I think the idea of listing a holocron as Master, but not list the new guy as apprentice to the holocron maker would be a good solution. But since this discussion started with information from a game that is not yet available, perhaps we should wait until we have official, verifiable facts and then review the policy? Charlii 18:42, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Yeah, that would probably be best. Let's wait and see. Or, somebody could just go ask Leland Chee or another official at the Star Wars.com forums. Surely their word would supercede all, whether it was one way or another.--Jedi Kasra 22:13, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
    • I don't mean to discourage you, but you'll probably be waiting a long time for an answer, if you ever get one. Chee's only posts in the last while have been answering idiots discussing G-canon and trolls, while a backlog of actual questions builds up. :-( -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 08:40, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
      • Well, Desolous and Krayt were converted and trained for a long time as Sith by the gatekeepers of Darth Phobos and XoXaan. The Gatekeepers should be listed as their Sith Masters. In the case of Bane and Revan, Bane activated it once and then destroyed it... not much of a training.--Gonzalo84 04:01, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Bane didn't just activate Revan's holocron once, then destroy it. Here's what the book says:
"And there was far more than just the ancient practices of dark side sorcerers stored inside the Holocron. In only a few short weeks he'd learned ore about the true nature of the dark side than he had in all his time on Korriban."
―Darth Bane: Path of Destruction[src]
  • So he spent a few weeks at the temple on Lehon, absorbed and copied all holocron's teahcings, and then destroyed it.--Jedi Kasra 17:52, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

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