Forums > Senate Hall archive > SH Archive/Kavar's, Vrook's, and Zez-Kai Ell's lightsaber forms

Why is it that Kavar, Zez-Kai Ell, and Vrook are said to have mastered all of the advanced lightsaber forms? {Ataru, Shien, Niman, and Juyo, respectfully.} If you, as the Exile, play as a Jedi Guardian, Zez-Kai Ell teaches you Ataru, Vrook teaches you Shien, & Kavar teaches you Juyo. If you play a Jedi Sentinel, Zez-Kai Ell teaches you Shien, Vrrok teaches you Ataru, & Kavar teaches you Niman. Where is the evidence that Zez-Kai Ell & Vrook ever learned or used Niman or Juyo, and where is the evidence that Kavar learned or used Ataru & Shien? Anybody wanna comment on this?

I imagine that there is an explanation by one of the versions being canon. For example, in KOTOR you could make Revan a light or dark side character. Canon, however, has stated that he is light side. Similarly, the Jedi Exile is a female, though you could make male characters. I imagine that at some point the TRUE forms each jedi master had mastered will or has been revealed. I think Kavar was a Juyo master. Hope that helps. Mrobviousjosh 02:56, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

  • See Wookieepedia:WookieeProject Knights of the Old Republic for an explanation concerning lightsaber forms and TSL Masters. - Sikon 08:18, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
    • The fact that the game allows any master to teach any form is not necessarily canonical evidence for their mastery of all the forms in question; it's simply a gameplay mechanic. It's no more inherently canonical than any other set of multiple options in KOTOR; I'd be wary of categorizing them all as confirmed masters of all forms in question. Havac 08:39, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
      • I agree, but that's all evidence we have. So, any other speculation about their lightsaber forms would be baseless as well. - Sikon 09:41, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
        • Which is why I don't think they should be listed as practitioners of any particular lightsaber forms, and should be removed from the lists on the forms' pages. They're just as unconfirmed as K'Kruhk right now, to grab a random example. Havac 09:49, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
  • I think that the masters should only be listed with the forms that they teach in the game, with Zez-Kai Ell & Vrook only listed with Ataru & Shien, and Kavar only with Niman & Juyo.Jedi Kasra 13:33, 18 May 2007
  • That doesn't work, because the order in which you visit the planets determines what form you learn from the master. For right now, I'd say leave it. I mean, we don't count the name "Mical" as non-canon just because you never hear it in the female storyline of KotOR II. Atarumaster88 13:44, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
    • I'd like to point out that the Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords : Prima Official Game Guide, says that Zez-Kai Ell teaches Ataru, and Vrook teaches Shien. I'm not sure about the rest of the forms though. However, if the official game guide says you learn Ataru from Zez-Kai Ell, and Shien from Vrook, shouldn't we accept that as fact, and therefore only mention Ataru on Zez-Kai Ell's article, and Shien on Vrook's? 14:15, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
      • AFAIK, the order that the Exile visited the planets is unknown, and the Game Guide is not a definitively canonical source for that order. Since the order in which Exile visits the planets determines the saber form that each master teaches you, it is still unknown who exactly teaches what. However, since all of them are capable of teaching each respective form, for now we say that they know all of them- not unreasonable since these are Jedi Council members. Atarumaster88 15:36, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Maybe one of us should try playing the game as either Jedi Guardian or Sentinel and play in a weird order like Telos-Dantooine-Dxun-Onderon-Nar Shaadaa-Korriban-Onderon, you know, just to see if that does happen? What do you all say?--Jedi Kasra 16:46, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

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