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Forums > Senate Hall archive > SH Archive/Revan's Gender? ...again
  • In "Darth Bane Path of Destruction" after Bane watches Revan's holocron it says ""the tiny replica of Darth Revan bowed its head, drawing its hood up to hide its features once more."
    • which means, as far as the Head Writer of KOTOR is concerned there is no Canon Gender. GMo 04:34, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Actually it's just a clever way of not giving away the gender by using the replica's neutral verbs. --Imp 23:05, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Since when has Reven's gender be a matter of redebate? At least on this Wiki? -- SFH 23:09, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
  • And later in the book, it refers to Revan with "his knowledge". No cause for alarm. "Replica" just naturally takes "it" as a pronoun. Havac 23:36, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
    • Yep. The book is merely referring to a "replica" (which has no gender) with the correct pronoun. Nothing to see here. Revan is a light-side male. QuentinGeorge 07:14, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Actually if you go on Wikipedia and put in darth revan. it will tell you that they actually had a vote, and revan is considered a Female. also the exile is a female. but in KOTOR, and KOTOR 2 The Sith Lords it is the players choice to be male or female. but revan and the exile is a female.

--Darth tader 22:12, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

    • Wikipedia is not canon. -- I need a name (Complain here) 22:17, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
      • Heaven help us if it ever is. .... 07:25, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
        • Wikipedia:Darth Revan states that one third of users expressing an opinion preferred the female Revan story on a particular message board, but that means little or nothing. —Silly Dan (talk) 12:16, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Revan's a guy and Exile's a gal. It's like that and that's the way it is. Now, move along, move along. KEJ 12:21, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
    • I can live with that. Though I wish they'd retcon Jaden Korr to be a female because her voice actress (the great Jennifer Hale!) was incomparably better than her male counterpart. Leland doesn't always make the wisest choices.

The fact remains if the character was intended NOT to be gender-neutral, Revan would have been overtly shown as a guy in this book. When Bane makes the assumption of "his" in that one instance that's Bane's assumption of Revan's gender, not the author's. That's the author cleverly using the onmiscient 3rd person perspective to show Bane's thoughts about the subject. It also could be a clever way into getting people who played the games and don't agree with the initial Canonization to buy the book. Ever considered he might be a universal pronoun in that one instance? StarShadow 18:47, 23 October 2006 (UTC).

  • Are you aware of the fact that Revan is also stated to be male in The New Essential Chronology? -- SFH 19:54, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
  • I hated the canonizations of the genders of the customizable characters. The whole point of it was that these people lived so long ago that they could have been anyone. I mean, I accept the canonizations (well, except for Jaden's), but I don't really like them. Darth Anarcus 23:37, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
  • I OWN the chronology and pretty much every Star Wars book ever written(which is why I will say time and time again that there aren't enough female lead characters in Star Wars--that's not up for debate) if you've read the books you know it to be a fact. And as far as G-level cannon goes, Revan's gender is non-essential. Daniel Wallace who wrote the freaking thing tried to avoid using the male pronoun and cited his own personal preference on the theforce.net as being female Revan(but he changed the pronouns to fit what the cronies at Lucasarts told him otherwise he'd be off the project). That's also why the Darth Bane book emphasizes Revans actions more that Revan's gender. If you asked Daniel Wallace point blank on theforce.net if he meant "he/him" as a universal pronoun, he'd say yes.
  • Also you should be aware that the Chronology is far from an accurate source. First it confuses the battle of Foernost in the Tales of the Jedi Series which was under Ulic Quel-Droma with Revan(that's a confirmed error by the way--although people don't like to admit it). Second, the date counting is off with the tlk file although you can make allowances because the exact dates on a month to month basis are not known. And finally, the New Essential Chronology has absolutely no endnotes/citations whatsoever which makes it a huge failure as a historical document because it doesn't even tell you where the information came from. It leaves the burden on those who have done their homework and read the books to pick up the pieces and figure out the specific order in which the events happened, or in the case of Revan's raid on Foernost, not at all.StarShadow 08:51 August 23, 2006 (PST)
    • Actually, it does have endnotes; they just happen to be online, since there weren't enough pages allotted for the book to include them. However, it doesn't *need* endnotes, since it's just as authoritative as the stories it's chronicling. jSarek 04:38, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
    • First of all, the word is "canon" - "Cannon" is a large piece of artillery that has nothing to do with judging Star Wars Literature. Second, the New Essential Chronology is just as canon as the KOTOR video game series and, indeed, introduces a large amount of information for the first time. Third - what the heck is this bizarre obsession people have with waging some sort of Jihad against Revan and the Exile's canon genders? QuentinGeorge 06:00, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
      • PS: With regards to G-Level canon, not only is Revan's gender irrelevant, but the entire character is, because he has absolutely zilch to do with the movies and is not mentioned in George Lucas' notes. QuentinGeorge 06:08, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
  • With regards to your post,the Jihad has everything to do with absolutely revolting picturing of female characters in the Star Wars universe. The example begins with Padme having her scenes cut in Episode II, and further having her lines cut in Episode III. She goes from being a fully-functioning ruler of her planet to a domestic violence victim in Episode III. Yet, against the backdrop of that there have been no truly female leads in Star Wars that break the norm of the "pretty female that is marginalized as window-dressing." That is the problem, even though Padme was the Queen of her world, her accomplishments are marginalized against a 8-year-old boy who doesn't know anything he's doing with regards to the Trade Fleet. All you have to do is to read the KOTOR comics by Dark Horse in the Dark and Light comics and have the twi'lek female saying "I love being exploited," to get the general feel of female characters in the Star Wars universe. Change has to start somewhere and it begins with the gender-neutral characters. Revan as a female character would have been a dramatic change from the Lucas-arts policy of male = hero. But that was voted down. Thanks so much! Canonization of gender ment exclusion of millions of women from the Star War genre. Thanks Lucasarts, for nothing! StarShadow 11:22 AM, October 23, 2006.
    • Revan is a male. Jedi Exile is a female. This matter is not up for debate or discussion. As a matter of fact, please take this elsewhere (another site) immediately. Your feelings about the roles of female characters in Star Wars in no way benefit this site. Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Audience Chamber) 19:07, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
    • P.S. QuentinGeorge, let's not encourage this by asking questions that beg for the answer we got! Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Audience Chamber) 19:09, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
      • (Atarumaster, you're probably right, but I spent way too long typing this to lose it to the ether). Excuse me? Leia Organa Solo? Mara Jade? Jaina Solo? Jan Ors? Mirax Terrik? Shada D'ukal? Tinian I'att? Alex Winger? Nomi Sunrider? Jedi Exile? There are plenty of strong women in the Star Wars universe, many of which have been the exclusive hero of stories about them. Just because Lucas blew it with Padme doesn't mean anything; the downside of having Anakin be the hero is that he chose to make the subplots take a back seat to the main story. Did canonization of the Exile as female exclude millions of men from the Star Wars genre? jSarek 19:13, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
  • "You can go about your business . . . move along, move along." Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Audience Chamber) 23:08, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
    • And how many of these women became side-kicks or side-plots? Mara, and Leia to Lukes side plots? Nomi Sunrider(whose character story-arc got completely botched because Lucasarts didn't do their homework on their name), to Ulic-Quel Droma, and many others? How many of them actually shine without being in a support role? Jedi Exile if she's lucky. Women constitute around 40% of all characters in the Star Wars galaxy. And in addition to this, if a character is a side character, it's more likely to be female and or alien. The observational point about canon sticks. I'm not questioning cannon, I'm criticising it(which I am well within my rights to do considering how much money I've sunk into Star Wars over the years) Don't expact canon without criticism, especially if Lucasarts wants money for what it canonizes. StarShadow 07:10 October 24, 2006 (PST)
  • We're not trying to restrict your right to criticize. We're just telling you that you can't do it here. Wookieepedia is not a forum. These forums are for policy discussions about the website, not to start a fan topic discussion. If you want to criticize, go forth and criticize. You're making some good points. Just don't do it here. -- SFH 03:58, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
    • Also if you don't like here, feel free to leave us alone, StarShadow. You are just here to stir up trouble which goes against any form of order on Wookieepedia. We have encountered many such reactive users as you and they have don't nothing useful other than stirring trouble and filling our Senate Hall pages with rubbish. Since you have been here just for a few days, show some respect to older users. It would be real heaven if there was no such thing as canon and everyone one could also decide what they like. Zainal 05:13, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
      • StarShadow, aside from irritating people, this post really accomplishes nothing and benefits this site in no way. I highly recommend you go somewhere else to further continue this discussion- i.e. another site.

Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Audience Chamber) 16:34, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

  • I have a problem with the Jedi Exile being female because Mical lends close to nothing to the story. Brianna, however, has a lot to do with a main plot in the story: Atris. And also, when she takes on Atris, it's a nice freshing out of her character. That, and the theory that her mother is actually Kreia. Still, I can live with that. I can't, however, accept Jaden Korr as a male simply because the male voice actor sucks. The female voice actor was a professional--Jennifer Hale, who played Bastila Shan--and the male was just some kid who didn't have an ounce of talent in his entire body. It'd be more professional to canonize the character as a female simply out of respect for the VA. This is why I seriously hope they retcon Jaden to have been a woman. (I PMed Leland Chee about this and other questions I had on the Dark Horse forums, but he hasn't gotten back to me.) Darth Anarcus 16:44, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
  • AHEM: "This is not a place to ask general questions about the Star Wars universe. Wookieepedia is not a general discussion board. The Message Boards on StarWars.com or the Jedi Council Forums on TheForce.Net may be what you are looking for. Off-topic posts are subject to deletion." This is NOT the place for this. Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Audience Chamber) 17:02, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
    • Alright here is my response: I consider my statement relevant to the topic of this forum. The gender of this character wouldn't have been presented so continuously ambiguous and the character developers and the writer of the New Essential Chrology wouldn't have made the statements that they have made, if they they had fully agreed with the canon is it is presented. That is why this issue has been revisited again and again, and the reason for my post. The larger issue concerning this is the big picture of female character depictictions in Star Wars as whole--which may or may not be a comfortable topic for users on this forum to think about. However, the degree to which a person is comfortable with a topic hardly makes it rubbish. Just because a topic is controversial doesn't mean it has no merit or that is has nothing to do with the general topic of this forum. I think I'd be far more disrespectful I wasn't drawing attention to the larger implications. Nevertheless, if it is a comfortable silence you prefer, you asked for it. Carry on. I'm done. StarShadow October 25, 2006 (PST).
      • You are of course entitled to your opinion. However, if you check the talk archives for both Revan and the Jedi Exile, their genders are officially canonical with Revan as a light-side male and the Exile as a presumably light-side, but definitely female character. This is NOT up for debate. And the other argument has no significance to this wiki, because we merely record canon, not write it. MTFBWU. Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Audience Chamber) 16:55, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

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