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Forums > Senate Hall archive > SH Archive/Vrook and Zez-Kai Ell
  • Okay, what is with the lightsaber forms for Vrook and Zez-Kai Ell? When I played KotOR II, Vrook used single-bladed Ataru and Zez-Kai used double-bladed Shien. The articles say otherwise. Does it change with one's game experience? For reference, I completed the game as pretty much canonical- light side female. I did the planets in this order: Peragus, Telos, Dantooine, Nar Shadaa, Dxun/Onderon, Korriban . . .

Atarumaster88 02:50, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

    • I havent played the game yet, but I heard that Wookeepedia considers the official game guide of KOTOR2 as canonical reference source, so we follow the what the game guide said when addressing the lightsaber combat forms of the Jedi Masters. Darth Kevinmhk 05:49, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
    • It's the planet order which determines the form they teach. So, until something actually names what order the Exile went to the planets in, it's either one. --RedemptionTalk Uglykotoricon 06:01, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
      • Redemption's right, and I'm actually ranting about this on another forum: Forum:Canonicity of strategy guides. The bottom line is that I don't think there is any indication from anyone official that out-of-universe-perspective strategy guides are canon at all. Despite what the Vrook and Zez-Kai articles currently reflect, the fact that each Jedi Master can teach you different lightsaber or Force forms seems to indicate that they were adept in ALL of these styles. Think of it this way: the only reason we know that the Disciple's name is Mical is because it is mentioned when the Exile is male. Even though the female Exile is canon, we can still be sure that this is the Disciple's name. Another example: if T3-M4 is sold on Nar Shaddaa, his loyalty will lead him back to the Exile anyway. Even if it is canonized that the Exile did not sell her droid away, or even if a strategy guide does not suggest doing so (because it loses influence, right?), it still does not change the fact that T3-M4 had the loyalty in his system to return, if it were to have happened. In the same way, we know that the Jedi Masters have knowledge of every form they can potentially teach the Exile, even though they will only teach one of these in a single game. -BaronGrackle 05:45, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Well, then I think the Vrook and Zez-Kai articles should reflect that, at least until we know what order the Exile traveled to each planet, etc. Which Leland Chee will probably tell us around the year 2040. Atarumaster88 22:15, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Speaking of the KOTOR2 guide, did anyone else notice the section concering the characters and their abilities implies that Kreia can wield two weapons or a double-handed weapon?--Darth Oblivion 00:45, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Well, ::cough::, not anymore, huh? Seriously, I found myself wondering at the beginning of the game exactly *why* I wasn't allowed to train Kreia in two-weapon fighting. I figured they just wanted to make sure her dueling stance was emphasized; I found out later that the programmers were just trying to spare me some upgrader's remorse. But I digress. Has Mr. Chee or anyone else stated or implied that strategy guides are canon? -BaronGrackle 03:51, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
    • So let's make it clear: the Masters would teach different styles to the Exile according to her order of visit, but the styles they actually used in combat would not change? That Vrook always used Ataru and Zez-Kai double-bladed Shien? Darth Kevinmhk 10:54, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
      • But, unless we accept the strategy guide as overwhelming canon, their combat styles do change. When I fought Vrook as a Sith Lord, he fought using the Force Affinity meditation form, as Kreia explained to me. -BaronGrackle 16:17, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
        • At the very least, the articles should detail more than just what is explained currently. I mean, if the strategy guide is overhwhelming canon then we might as well have Leland Chee play a "officially canon" game of KotOR II for the records. Not that he wouldn't mind. Atarumaster88 21:41, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
          • By the way, why can everyone identify the Masters' styles, but not the styles of the 3 Darths? Darth Kevinmhk 13:50, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
            • Well, there's some dispute about Master Kavar, disagreement over whether his planet can be concluded before the end of the game... if it can, then we know the Masters are adept at all three advanced lightsaber forms and Force forms because each of them teaches the Exile one of these forms. The form each one teaches depends on the Exile's class and the order in which he visits them, but the fact that they can potentially teach any of them means we can identify them as knowing those styles. We don't know the style of Darth Sion because he never teaches the Exile anything. Some have used Malak's known styles to correlate to Darth Nihilus's, since the two are based off the same character model (and thus hold their sabers the same way), but this is stretching the game mechanic. Kreia, or Darth Traya, knows the three basic lightsaber forms (I forget their names) and Force Channel by the end of the game, but she also has an extensive knowledge of every other form. That's the long, rambling answer, anyway. -BaronGrackle 21:50, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

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