This page is an archive of a community-wide discussion. This page is no longer live. Further comments or questions on this topic should be made in a new Knowledge Bank page rather than here so that this page is preserved as a historic record. jSarek 08:42, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Most of our articles use length as a measure of nose-to-rear length, and width as a wingspan/right-left length. However, with some articles where there is only a length measure and no width measure, it isn't always easy to know if the length is truly representative of nose-to-rear. Especially when their portrayals in different media make them look bigger or smaller than their listed lenghts indicate.
Take the Shadow Droid, for example. It has a length of 6 meters, presumably nose-to-rear. However, that would give it a wingspan of 9 meters or something, making it almost as big as an A-Wing. These same droids were plucked out of the air by X-1 Vipers, which were shown to be no taller than an AT-ST (8 meters tall). Since this makes no sense to me, I'd apprecciate if whoever has the sources on the Shadow Droid article could confirm the 6 meter nose-to-rear measure, or change it to width or wingspan if I'm right.
Similarly, look at the YT-2400. By measures of its cockpit compared to that of an YT-1300, as well as the 2400's size in Shadows of the Empire, I'd say its about as big as the midsection of a 1300. However, going by the length measure being nose-to-rear, the two craft are equal in size. Again, can someone with sources confirm/deny this?
The Outrider, which I assume to have a normal length for a YT-2400, is 21m long, and the Millennium Falcon, which I assume to have a normal length for a YT-1300, is 27m long. This data is from the NEGVV. tzzA 13:50, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Oh, and a standard A-Wing is 9,6 m long, not wide, and an AT-ST is 8.6 m tall. Again, this comes from the NEGVV, which does not have Shadow Droids..tzzA 13:53, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
But it says nothing of where this lenght is measured from? I refer to exhibit A: Issue 1 of Shadows of the Empire (comic) p. 36 and 43, which shows the Falcon's and the Outrider's width and nose-to-rear lengths, respectively. It is not possible that the Falcon is a mere 6 meters longer from nose to rear than the Outrider according to that picture. It is however, very likely that the Falcon is 21 meters in width, and that the NEGVV info refers to the Outriders width of 21 meters. Exhibit A proves this.
The EGVV apparently gives the length values for the Shadow Droid. However, as Exhibit B (p. 12 of Dark Empire II, issue 1) shows, the X-1 Viper, which is as tall as an AT-ST is able to pluck it out of the air in its claws. There is no way the 6 meters could be from nose to rear of the Shadow, as that would make it comparable to an A-Wing in size. DarthMRN 14:54, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Things are not drawn to proper scale sometimes. The X-1 Vipers are huge. Big enough for multiple people to fit in their innards (See DE II). -Fnlayson 16:21, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
I have it in front of me. The biggest number of people shown inside one of the atomadons was four: Lando, Zev, C-3PO and R2-D2. And they were lying down, cramped together. DE2 even says they aren't meant for troop transport. Besides, the whole group of commandos shown fleeing as the Chrysalides attacked the Vipers was small enough to give the impression that there wasn't a whole lot of them. Besides, this image [] indicates that the Vipers were about as tall as an AT-ST.
I'm aware of that. The fact it isn't designed for passengers further supports my point. 4 people in the crawl space of a droid makes it a big droid. Also, Vipers are squatty droids (length > height). They look like beattles from above. -Fnlayson 17:47, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
OK, from, the images in DE II, the Shadow Droid is more like 6 m across (wide) than 6 m long. -Fnlayson 19:14, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, I crossing into fan interpretation here, but evidence seems abundant that when a sourcebook says vessel X is X meters long, long means the lenght between the two point on the vessel that are farthest from each other. At least when there is no height or width information. And personally, I think that makes a lot of sense when you are trying to give size measures for vehicles that come in as many odd shapes as those found in SW.
My ultimate point is, we can't readily change length to width, when the books say length, but at least we can include a BTS in articles like these, that the length in this case most likely means width. DarthMRN 16:59, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Length is the farthest possible distance that is parallel to the bow-stern axis, not the longest distance overall. Unless you are saying that the NEGV/V is wrong, the YT-2400&YT-1300s are 6 m different in length. tzzA 20:22, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Length is the farthest possible distance that is parallel to the bow-stern axis. I'm not a Fleet Junkie. In english, please.
If the NEGVV's says the Falcon is a mere 6 meters longer than the Outrider bow to stern, as you seem to be interpreting it, then it's either messing heavily with canon, or is outright wrong. Take your pick. However, if my theory is correct, then it neither messes with canon, nor gives flawed info. Which gives me ample reason to believe that your interpretation, whatever it might be, is faulty. Where does it come from? DarthMRN 23:37, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
@Finlayson: I never said the Viper wasn't big. But seeing as it is 8 meters tall, the pictures from DE2, in Exhibit B above, very clearly shows that the Shadow Droid isn't 6 meters from stern to bow. Which is the point I've been trying to make. DarthMRN 23:42, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Unless the NEGV/V does not have actual lengths listed as lengths, then the data is correct.
Length is the farthest possible distance that is parallel to the bow-stern axis. I'm not a Fleet Junkie. In english, please. 1. Get a good dictionary. 2. Draw a line alint the middle of the ship-nose to back. This is the bow-stern axis. The length is the longest possible distance of a line that is parallel to this one, e.g., from the tip of the nose on the Falcon to the back of the engine. Somewhat similar to the keel, except not an actual structural feature. tzzA 23:44, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarification. That is what I thought too. Except if this is the case, as the NEGVV claims, it goes against aforementioned Exhibit A. So the question is, how do you know that the bow-stern axis is what the guide is talking about, when there are no width or height info? DarthMRN 01:19, 1 April 2007 (UTC)