Ok, here's the problem:
I have been blocked till 8 November by Darth Culator for 'Vandalism'
I have not received any warnings at all, and if I have I don't know about it. Even if I did receive A warning, I shouldn't be blocked for 6 months. I was trying to find out why I was blocked and found the page that says so. There is nothing on my User talk page about it, feel free to check, and I couldn't even write this out yesterday because the IP was also blocked, only for 24 hours.
I am wondering: a) WHY am I blocked?? b) If there is a reasonable explanation for the above (There shouldn't be since no warning = no block), why am I blocked for so long? c) How come I couldn't find out yesterday? I couldn't leave a message on Culator's talk page, or email him or anything to ANY admin to ask them to find out why. d)Why is someone aloud to do this to people?
Details: You (Manoof) have been blocked from editing Wookieepedia. You were blocked by Darth Culator for the following reason: Vandalism and/or general disruption Your block ID is #28855. Your IP address is 188.8.131.52. Your were blocked on 04:01, 8 May 2008. Your block expiry is 04:01, 8 November 2008.
I want to resolve this peacefully and happily. I was in the middle of updating some pages when it happened, which is incredibly annoying.
Help me Wookiee admin, your my only hope!
- I'm assuming this is to do with these edits to the Star Wars Trading Card Game talk page? —Silly Dan (talk) 11:49, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, I would have replied sooner, but my IP was blocked by Culator AGAIN!! This time for block evasion for a month. I can see why it is block evasion, but seriously, I only posted here to try to find out why I am blocked. Is this a crime? I challenge anyone who doesn't believe me to check all of the site to find another page I edited. How am I supposed to find out why I am blocked if I can't type this out? I am getting very frustrated and VERY tempted to start calling Culator a variety of names, but that will achieve nothing and by being civil I am trying to show you all that I am a responsible member of the community.
Anyways, even though I am at a Net Cafe so I can do this, I expect Darth Culator will block this IP as well.
Now, Silly Dan, yes I think it is because of that, but I don't see how it is vandalism. Could it please be explained WHY it is vandalism? I was trying to be civil about it, hence a vote instead of me just editing the page. "Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to stupidity" (Taken from the Wookieepedia:Blocking policyWookieepedia:Blocking policy). If I had intentionally been vandalising or tryiong to get my way, wouldn't it be logical for me to have just edited it all instead of starting a vote?
Also, I must point out that I was never warned. If I was, can someone point it out to me because I haven't seen it. And with this, I should just be warned and told not to do it. Even if I had been warned, according to the Wookieepedia:Blocking policy, I should be blocked for only one week if I had been warned.
Now I am only trying to get to the bottom of this. I cannot do a thing if I am blocked, And traveling to Net Cafe's during lunch breaks and before or after work will get tedious, though I doubt I will run out of Cafes where I can say stuff.This probably won't mean anything to Culator, since it seems he has it out for me, but I PROMISE not to edit anything until this issue is resolved, so not blocking IPs would be very appreciated, so I won't have to keep changing cafes and computers and such.
And I ask Culator: Why me? Why do you have it out for me? Am I just the 'new guy' for you to bully? Because I will not submit to this bullying. If you block the IP I am using, go ahead, I will go to a different Net Cafe to post here. And I can Guarantee you that I will not be editing anywhere else. I will not roll over and mope about till the block expires. How many other people have you done this to and not fought for their rights? Because I promise you, I will not roll over and let you do this to me. And maybe if I can stop this (or at least get an explanation that is REASONABLE), then you won't do it to anyone else.
Oh, and I have not recieved anything in the way of explanation, "Don't do it" or "Stop whinging" from Darth Culator here, or on my Talk page. I ask other admins, why?
-Manoof (From ANOTHER IP)
- Manoof, I've looked into the matter and found that your block was justified—a quick look at WP:NOT is easily justification-in the sense that Wookieepedia does not exist for inclusion of fanon, which you clearly stated in your vote that you were trying to do, and this is apparently not the first infraction. Under the circumstances, I might have opted for a slightly different approach in handling the matter, but the facts remain that your edits were in violation of Wookieepedia policy and Darth Culator was fully within his rights as an administrator to block you. To say that you didn't receive a warning is not a fair accusation, and you might want to have a look at Wookieepedia:Administrative autonomy. In short, we can't be held responsible if you weren't aware of the policy; the saying goes "ignorance of the law is no excuse" and WP:NOT is linked to in our welcome template as highly recommended reading. Your user contributions show that you've been here since September of last year; it's not at all unreasonable IMO to expect you to be familiar with site policy.
- Your civility on that talk page is appreciated; your suggestions of online bullying here are not. To think that Darth Culator "has it in" for anyone is an absurd and rather tired line that has been used repeatedly and never with any base. The administration here has a lot to handle and, while you might disagree with him, lambasting him on a forum is uncivil, unprofessional, and uncalled for. We do our best to maintain order in the site, and given what we've had to deal with in the past, I can't necessarily blame him for taking a harder line.
- Finally, on the block evasion, I had a look at the page that pops up when a user is blocked, and it says how to handle a block: in IRC, in the #wookieepedia channel, or via e-mail (though in your case, e-mail was blocked.) I've talked to people who have the IRC logs, and they say you've never shown up in there. So yes, what you are doing is again circumventing policy and I can't say that I blame Darth Culator for blocking you. All of that to say, if you desire to be a responsible member of the community, I suggest you let the matter go, wait for your blocks to expire, and return a bit wiser from the experience. I hope this clears things up for you, and if you wish to discuss matters further, I suggest you e-mail me at (my username) (at) wookieepedia dot com and not charge into IRC to yell at Culator or continue posting here. I can assure that neither will help your case any. Atarumaster88 (Talk page) 23:22, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
- We have several issues getting in the way here:
- Does editing under a different username/using a different unblocked IP count as illegal block evasion? Yes, it does. Let's get that out of the way immediately.
- Does that still count if all you're doing is asking for the original block to be lifted? I'd still say so. Blocked users should be able to contact the admin who blocked them without editing the wiki if they have legitimate issues. I notice that email was blocked, which I don't think is really necessary for all blocked users, just the ones who are only here to cause trouble.
- Was six months too long of a block? Possibly, but I think the suggestion that it should necessarily have only been one week won't wash either. Manoof's block log shows that he'd been blocked once before for a week, so the second block would, according to the Wookieepedia:Blocking policy guidelines, be two months. I don't see why yet another warning would be needed: presumably, if a user had been blocked once after a warning, further warnings against doing the same thing wouldn't be necessary. As well, the policy says "Final discretion is left to the blocking administrator on a case-by-case basis."
- Were these edits vandalism? I'd say no: they're part of attempts to add content on fan-produced content to an article on an official card game. This is closer to the "fanon" quoted as the reason for the first block.
- Was Manoof warned? Yes and no: neither Darth Culator nor any other admin put a warning on his talk page, but there's a conversation on User talk:JSarek/Archive3 which explained why that content wasn't really desirable. So, this wasn't a block that came completely out of nowhere.
- I'm not a CCG player, so I have no idea if these fan-made "IDC sets" would pass Wookieepedia:Notability of fan projects and thus be worthy of a single article, but they should definitely only have a passing mention at most in the main article, and should not be treated as though they are official canon sources for anything. I notice that this IDC group is mentioned in the article already, and I don't think we need to say much more on the subject. —Silly Dan (talk) 23:44, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
Ok, I understand a bit. I don't actually remember that stuff, but if it's there, it's there. And I can't recall ever being blocked, it must have been a time when I wasn't using it or something I don't know. I did feel bullied, and I'm sorry if he wasn't, but the lack of any explanation or response from him the last few days only fortified this impression. As to IRC, I'm sorry if I don't have that program and I am not allowed to get that program. I would if I could, but the fact of the matter is the computer is not mine and hence it is not up to me on what programs I can have on it. I did ask for it but was told no. I wasn't asking specifically for the block to be removed. I was also asking for an explanation, and I said that if there was a reasonable explanation, I was willing to cop the block. When I was blocked, I did not know why, and was not told why, which is what I was trying to find out. I did try to leave a message on Culator's Talk page, as well as email him. I also tried to email several other admin to ask them to find out for me, but nothing worked. "I have no idea if these fan-made "IDC sets" would pass Wookieepedia:Notability of fan projects and thus be worthy of a single article" This is exactly why I started the vote. I felt that it should be included. Another user voiced a similar opinon. In fact he added it, then removed it when he saw it was deleted. Only one person had voiced against the issue and that was Culator, this is why the vote. I did not Email this to you Ataru since some of this was addressed to Silly Dan. And that feeling of being bullied has not gone away I'm sorry to say. It seems I should stay away from articles Culator frequents to avoid trouble, and as that includes the TCG, which is the main thing I edit, I feel like I am being pushed away from editing. That is not to say I hate the admin and every user here on wookieepedia. I am very grateful to both Ataru and Silly Dan for taking the time to explain it to me. While I originally registered a while back, I hadn't been on in ages till just before this incident.
I apologise for any comments that were offensive, and if posting here was out of line, I am sorry, but it was the only way I found to ask for an explanation. I still feel 6 months is too long, I may very well stop editing at all, but if nothing can be done, well I shall have to cop the block and see if I feel like the time I take here is worth it.
- Personally, this sounds like a big misunderstanding to me, unless there was stuff that happened that I am unaware of besides the attempted vote on the TCG page. Manoof was supposedly trying to peacefully determine if the IDC was a notable fan project, worthy of inclusion on Wookieepedia. Culator supposedly saw it as a repeated attempt to add fanon to the wiki. Culator did nothing wrong in blocking you without explanation, but I feel that this may be one case that could be overturned with administrative consensus per Wookieepedia:Administrative autonomy (again, unless I'm missing something not described above).
- So, should alternate accounts be used in an attempt to contact the administration? I don't think so; however, I understand that it can sometimes be difficult to reach us admins. For IRC, which is the preferred method of contact, you do not need an IRC program. One of the links on WP:IRC opens up the chat client in a browser window.
- On another note, the IDC is a notable fan project IMO, and deserves one article on it, or at least a mention on the TCG page. —Xwing328(Talk) 04:47, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Obviously I would appreciate a lowered block, I have several images ready for upload sitting on the computer and it feels like forever already. I did think it was the only way for the community to decide whether it is worth and article, and while I still disagree that the post I made was vandalism (vandalism IMO is if I had edited the actual page, not the discussion), it seems that it is. Thanks guys for taking the time to straighten me out :) Again, I'd like to apologise for anything offensive I said, things have been... hectic for me, though I'm not using it as an excuse. - Manoof
- Hello, this probably isn't the right place for this question but you're already been talking about it anyways, Culator said that fan things shouldn't be on the SWTCG page, but I was just wondering if it would be okay to put a mention of it in the BTS with a list of all the sets there, thanks - Kingpin13Cantina Battle Ground 18:20, 2 June 2008 (UTC)