Spoilers for The Last Jedi!
Considering that the duel in Snoke's throne room is a separate event with separate objectives and separate reasons to why it occurred, I think the duel deserves its own page, unlike the previous duels that were included in Battle of Endor or Assault on Starkiller Base and more like how Duel on Cloud City and Escape from Cloud City are separated. The only reason I see why the duel is included in this article is because it happened at the same time at a same location, but as the reasons I mentioned above, it seems better to be separated. Any thoughts? Jaewade (talk) 11:12, December 18, 2017 (UTC)
- We are treating it similar to the duel on the Death Star II during the Battle of Endor, which is together.--Vitus Infinitus (talk) 15:03, December 18, 2017 (UTC)
- Yes I understand that, but I don't think it really works. The duel was clearly a battle with twisted sides, which Kylo and Rey teamed up against bunch of red guys who are loyal to Snoke. This article treats Kylo and the guards as the same side, which is false, and making a third party slot wouldn't make sense either because:
A:Kylo is with the First Order, and Rey is with the Resistance. They aren't technically a third party, so they can't belong to the third slot.
B:Praetorians are associated with Snoke, who is the Supreme Leader of the First Order, so they can't go to a third party. They go up against Kylo, who becomes the next Supreme Leader of the First Order, eventually meaning they both belong to the same side (First Order).
What I'm suggesting is to make a separate page at "Duel in Snoke's throne room" or something like that and treat it similarly like Escape from Cloud City and Duel on Cloud City. The fleet attack and the duel don't have a real connection between them other than happening at the same time at the same place; they are separate events. The fleet attack was just First Order trying to eliminate Resistance forces while the duel was about Rey and Kylo convincing each other to join their side. The duel on Death Star II being in Battle of Endor makes sense because ultimately the duel was connected to the battle; it prevented Vader from joining the ground battle and the duel itself was a battle between the Empire and the Rebellion, Sith and Jedi. This duel in Snoke's throne room is a different case than that on the Emperor's throne room. Jaewade (talk) 10:29, December 24, 2017 (UTC)
- Escape from Cloud City and Duel on Cloud city were the names confirmed for the events however, which is why they're separate. Even if we split the article they'd likely end up being the same due to preludes and aftermath sections--Vitus InfinitusTalk 14:35, December 24, 2017 (UTC)
I'd like to add a section to the article regarding just how "miraculous" this was for the resistance to hold for 18 hours. What is your feedback in regards to this or a better way that we can go about it? My thoughts are that when one compares a single Resurgence-class Star Destroyer to a MC85 Star Cruiser, it becomes immediately apparent that the Raddus was outclassed in every way. 1500+ Ions/Turbos compared to the 18/18 of the Raddus. Furthermore Resurgence-class Star Destroyers can achieve max-speeds in excess of a TIE/fo which while we don't have any statistics for, we know for a fact is faster than your Average TIE which was faster than an X-Wing putting its sublight speed in 105-110+ MGLT. A MC80 Mon-Calamari cruiser is listed at 60 MGLT. Mathematically, there was no possible way for them to outrun 30 Resurgence-class Star Destroyers, let alone survive a full salvo from a single one within its effective range. I think this speed difference is at least worth stating to add more context and depth to the situation than what we can glean in the movie. As for whatever reason the First Order chose not to pursue at maximum speed, that would be conjecture. But it was possible for the First Order Fleet to not only catch up to, but at least double the speed of the Resistance Fleet. --2605:A601:5E5:EC00:DDEB:3210:4B62:CE9E 05:57, December 30, 2017 (UTC)
- It's just for the sake of the film. Maybe it is possible, may be not, but for the story to be told it had to happen. That's how I see it. Kinda of like how the length of time traveling from one place to another becomes blurred during a film.--Vitus InfinitusTalk 06:09, December 30, 2017 (UTC)
While we don't have a listed speed for the MC85, we know that the First Order TIEs are faster as they were able to catch up to the Resistance fleet in the film and we have an official source stating that in a straight line the Resurgence-class Battlecruiser is just as fast if not faster than a TIE/FO. I'm not suggesting to add a section saying "The producer doesn't know what he is doing!" but rather a sentence or two stating something along the lines of "While the Resurgence-class Battlecruisers were able to achieve greater sublight speeds than the resistance fleet, it is unknown why the First Order kept them in reserve and opted to win by attrition." --2605:A601:5E5:EC00:7C73:BCA0:5735:B006 07:22, December 31, 2017 (UTC)
- TIE Fighters retreated from the battle because the Star Destroyer couldn't protect them (said in the movie) and for the Star Destroyer they were probably escorting the Supremacy since that was their job. We don't need to add a section or something saying about this, Its a movie and any vehicle will move as fast as the movie requires it, even if sometimes doesn't makes too much sense. And we don't know the speed limit for the Raddus, the Resurgence or the TIE Fighters--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 07:29, December 31, 2017 (UTC)
It could be possible that the Raddus, Ninka and Anodyne were able to get the distance between them and the rest of the First Order fleet by pushing full power into their engines and driving past maximum speed long enough while the First Order fleet weren't able to get their engines to go faster and the Supremacy appears to be extremely slow at sublight. They were likely pushing maximum speed for a few hours before cutting back when the distance was enough to keep them just out of range. If I remember Peavey's words right, New Republic ships are more nimble and able to maintain maximum speed or perhaps beyond longer then First Order ships. My guess is Kuat-Entralla engineers have no idea how or Why the Mon Cals and Corellians prefer speed and agility more then brute force (with perhaps KDY using them on Nebulon-Cs without giving away the secret to the engineers who joined the First Order) --Shannon, Jedi Knight (talk) 07:37, December 31, 2017 (UTC)