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Balance Never Came to the ForceEdit

If the novels are cannon then the prophecy never came true. After the sixth movie things just get worse, the Sith grow stronger, the new Jedi Order is destroyed, the GA falls. In short things were better with a bureaucratically corrupt Republic than with Luke and the original cast!

  • I agree. It rather frustrates me. The reason that everything just keeps getting worse is because the comics and writers do it for sake of a good story. It should all have ended with ROTJ. Forget all these new Sith, new wars, new threats, etc. I know I'm sort of ranting here, but that's the way Lucas originally planned it - Chosen One defeats Sith, galaxy better forever. Simple. But, seeing as how it's far too late for that, here is a proposed remedy: Anakin is indeed not the Chosen One (sad, but perhaps the only way to make this work), but is instead the anscestor of the Chosen One. Perhaps the grandson of Cade Skywalker or something. Now this "Chosen One" is available to destroy the Sith once and for all, since that sadly did not happen like it was supposed to. Lanne Thel-Tanis 17:31, May 21, 2010 (UTC)
    • Although I agree completely with you on a logical level, it is obvious that the editors of Wookiepedia (and Lucas himself) indeed do believe that Anakin is the Chosen One and the article itself unwaveringly states that he does fulfill the prophecy. I'm not sure how they can rationalize the part of the prophecy that states the Chosen One brings "balance to the Force" except perhaps to say that the prophecy wasn't very specific on the fact that this balance (i.e. the downfall of the Sith with Vader's killing of Palpatine and then Vader's own subsequent demise) would only last, say, a couple of years or so and then: imbalance returns! Wolfdog 16:18, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
    • While it's true that Lucas said that Anakin is the Chosen One, look at what he said about it: "Anakin's offspring redeem him and allow him to fulfill the prophecy where he brings balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and getting rid of evil in the universe." Even the most cursory glance at the EU shows that evil still exists in the universe after Anakin's death, especially the part where there's over 10,000 Sith 130 years after his death. To put Lucas's quote in perspective, consider that he also said in 2008, "Once Vader dies, he doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned and Luke doesn't get married." The fact is, Lucas does not consider the EU part of the story. They'll never come out and officially say that, but it's pretty clear. He'll approve the stories because it's making him a crapload of money, but he ultimately sees it as just letting us play make-believe, not as part of the real story. To Lucas, the entire Star Wars universe begins with Episode I and ends with Episode VI. If you're going to integrate Lucas saying "Anakin is the Chosen One" into canon, you're also gonna have to integrate "Luke doesn't get married." The fact is, "Anakin is the Chosen One", just like "Luke doesn't get married", applies only to Lucas's vision of the story, which does not include any EU material. Lucas!Anakin is the Chosen One. EU!Anakin is, if anything, a decent candidate for the Sith'ari. 02:19, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
    • Before any of you start getting annoyed at Lucas for this confusion, remember one fact. It wasn't him that continued the Sith after IV, it was EU writers. He is justified to stand behind his story, rather then relent because of some writers. So just remember, he is perfectly ok to say this, and it is the writers of the EU who may be blamed, and it is their job, not Lucas', to fix it (Like they did with the Russan Reformation). 06:27, January 3, 2012 (UTC)
      • Maybe balance just came slowly. Like how the world didn't end with the Savior's ascension into heaven in the Real World. (Then again, I haven't read much of the EU.) OneWeirdDude 02:42, January 27, 2012 (UTC)
        • Please adhere to the {{Talkheader}} template listed on the top of this page. Thank you. JangFett (Talk) 02:46, January 27, 2012 (UTC)
    • Darth Plagueis offers an explanation for this contradiction. In the novel, Palpatine and Plagueis literally "wrench" the Force to favor the dark side, causing an imbalance in the Force. In response, the Force creates Anakin, the Chosen One, to destroy Palpatine and Plagueis and undo the imbalance they created. In other words, the post-Endor Sith (including clone Palpatine), while evil, do not represent a threat to the balance of the Force itself. Palpatine and his master had altered the fundamental nature of the Force itself, something Anakin undid when he killed Palpatine, truly bringing balance to the Force. -- 00:58, November 1, 2012 (UTC)
      • The last post in this thread was in January. It is dead and should not be ressurected here. Start a new thread if you want to talk about this in relation to how the article should be changed. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 19:48, November 1, 2012 (UTC)

Palpatine and the prophecy?Edit

Is there any canonical material that touched upon Palpatine and whether he was aware of the prophecy?

Jarjar4evr (talk) 03:47, December 11, 2012 (UTC)
SPOILERS AHEAD - SPOILERS AHEAD (I apologize if it's forbidden here)
Yes absolutely. In the novel Darth Plagueis, Count Dooku develops a close relationship with Palpatine and reveals to him that the Jedi are "waiting for a chosen one." I could be more specific, but I'm not sure how you feel about spoilers. So to answer your question, yes absolutely. This knowledge was instrumental in Palpatine and Plagueis deciding to "create" a certain someone. I strongly recommend you give it a read. It gives more "meat" to the prequel saga story than episode 1 and 2 combined!

Luke the Chosen One ?Edit

I espouse the view that either Luke is the chosen one or Anakin is the chosen one by way of siring Luke and destroying the advantage of Sith empire. I actually prefer the belief that it is Luke, for he also traveled through the dark and light side of the force(as did many probably every force sensitive at some time in their career) and a bit more calculatedly than most I might say. Also I believe more importantly, Luke resurrected the Jedi order with a much more balanced teaching of the force. I think Luke also had more command over the polarity in the force and was abled to easily discern the good in Vader even when there seemed to be no redemtion in his demeanor or actions. Besides why else would he be the origional "hero" of the Star Wars series? Still I believe this question is so Pivotal that it should only be settled by the series creator himself George Lucas.

Anakin was the one that was Chosen: like the article states at the end of ROTS Vader and Palpatine are the Sith, Obi and Yoda are the Jedi. 2 Jedi and 2 Sith balance of the Force. Luke disrupted the balance at the end of ROTJ he was the only major Force person left, all the Sith die, 1 Jedi and 0 Sith, if he was the chosen one then where is the balance. plus the whole issue is a mute point, if it states that the "Chosen One will bring balance to the Force, AND DESTROY the Sith" as Obi stated in ROTS how can that be equal? if the Light Side defeats the Dark Side the the Force is "Light/Good" if the Dark Side defeated the Light Side the Force is "Dark/Bad" or am I missing part of the text in one of the EU book? HELP ME PLEASE?

  • Balance does not necessarily mean equal parts good and evil. Take for example the argument that evil does not actually exist—only the absence and perversion of good. From such a standpoint it could be argued that the dark was imbalance, therefore it's reduction brought balance. – Aidje talk 14:12, 4 Oct 2005 (UTC)

but the dark side,aka the Sith,wasn't reduced it was destroyed even if someone else claims the title Dark Lord of the Sith they aren't because Vader and Palpatine are the only one's, who would have trained any new Sith's?--sithlord123 11:24, 10 Oct 2005 (UTC)

  • Unless there was a Dark Jedi under Palpatine's/Vader's command that was being guided through the ways of the Sith before they died, and claimed the title "Dark Lord of the Sith" after their deaths. You never know what might happen when someone else writes a book for the timespace after RotJ. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 13:29, 10 Oct 2005 (UTC)
  • Not to disagree with Nebulax, but I'd just like to say to sithlord123 that my word choice was not meant to imply or exclude any absolutes. Those words were chosen for their vagueness, actually; reduction does not imply a lack of destruction, nor does a bringing of balance imply that total balance was achieved. The words were meant to be somewhat noncommittal because that's not the point of what I was saying and I didn't want to get into a discussion about that. – Aidje talk 21:12, 10 Oct 2005 (UTC)
    • I believe Lucas said in an interview that "balance" meant the end of the Sith. Life without any supernatural interference has good and bad people/events in it anyway, that's how the universe is. It seems that the Sith are off-setting this by attempting to manipulate their surroundings to their own needs and thus reshape the universe. Now this brings up the amusing question of whether or not the Jedi essentially do the same thing, even if they use their powers minimally and mostly to help others and keep the peace. VT-16 15:18, 12 Oct 2005 (UTC)
      • The "balance" referred to by the prophecy is referring to healing the rift of the Great Schism. It has never been suggested in any canon source that it has anything at all to do with numbers of Sith vs numbers of Jedi. QuentinGeorge 07:09, 13 Oct 2005 (UTC)

  • Do we have an exact quot of the chosen one prophecy, i know i've heard it somewhere, but i cant remember where. Master Illidan 23:55, 2 Nov 2005 (UTC)
    • If one could be found, we could always use it (if it is good enough). Cmdr. J. Nebulax 00:16, 3 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Anakin is the chosen one. Lucas said so which ends it. If Lucus decides tomorrow that "it was all a dream" then thats it.

Midi countEdit

Do we have a source for Anakin Skywalker's midichlorian count? It sounds like a Supershadowism to me, but it could also be a detail in the Ep. I novelization. — Silly Dan 18:36, 2 Oct 2005 (UTC)

  • It could be from Supershadow, although I checked, and that fraud has it at 27,700 midichlorians. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 19:20, 2 Oct 2005 (UTC)

I thought OB1 told his master (not going to try to spell it) the number in TPM?

  • I believe he said "off the charts" and "well over X," not "it's X amount." – Aidje talk 14:07, 4 Oct 2005 (UTC)
    • I believe that he said it was over 100,000 Master Illidan 23:55, 2 Nov 2005 (UTC)
      • No, he said it was over 20,000.
        • It doesn't matter; we don't know the exact number anyway. Admiral J. Nebulax 18:24, 14 Jan 2006 (UTC)

if the chosen one showed up during the greatest time of despair. that was when darth vader was alive and ruling which points the chosen one to be Luke not Anakin. Right? so if anything luke had to have been the chosen one and the son of the suns. 17:50, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

Behind the Scenes Edit

I would understand if there was a lack of clarity surrounding it, but does a fan theory warrant mention, let alone such a big subsection, when it's been repeatedly, officially discredited? It's tantamount to me going to the Death Star page and talking about how some fans prefer to regard what's seen in RotS as the prototype. There might be evidence to support that concept (hell, there's evidence for all kinds of crazy stuff), but it's still officially wrong. CooperTFN 23:21, 1 Dec 2005 (UTC)

  • How is the "Behind the Scenes" section wrong, exactly? Admiral J. Nebulax 00:17, 2 Dec 2005 (UTC)
    • It's not an issue of wrong, it's an issue of not warranting mention. I can see a Behind the Scenes discussion of a popular fan theory that could be right, but if it's canon that Anakin is the Chosen One, talking about the Luke theory is like adding a section to the Bail Organa page saying "It has been argued by some fans that Bail was actually not on Alderaan when it was destroyed, and lived on for many years." CooperTFN 01:33, 3 Dec 2005 (UTC)
      • Well, as long as GL said Anakin was the Chosen One, all we need to have there is something like "There is a fan dispute that Luke, Anakin's son, might have also been the Chosen One...". Admiral J. Nebulax 12:44, 3 Dec 2005 (UTC)
        • But fans dispute all kinds of things. Should they all get mentions? CooperTFN 00:21, 4 Dec 2005 (UTC)
          • No, but this is a, well, "special" one that I believe deserves to be metioned. Admiral J. Nebulax 00:22, 4 Dec 2005 (UTC)
            • If you say so. CooperTFN 03:43, 4 Dec 2005 (UTC)
              • All I'm saying is that this is different from all of the other fan disputes. Admiral J. Nebulax 12:38, 4 Dec 2005 (UTC)
                • While, in the process of determining things, qualitative distinctions disturb me, I have to agree that we can say there's a qualitative difference between this one and most. Heck, ask even casual viewers, and they think that the Balance of the Force was equal numbers Jedi and the Sith, so that's a large bit of fan ignorance that is worthy of mention just because it's so pervasive. 22:10, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Whills Edit

Is there an IU source that declares the old Whills entry from the ANH novelization is the Chosen One prophecy of which Qui-Gon Jinn, Yoda, Mace Windu, et al refered to? --SparqMan 03:50, 12 Dec 2005 (UTC)

  • I believe so. I just have to find it now. Admiral J. Nebulax 21:57, 12 Dec 2005 (UTC)
    • Whilst it is clear that the "Prophesy of the one who will bring Balance to the Force" evolved out of the "Son of the Suns" thing, there's absolutely no canon source that indicates that that the "Son of the Suns" thing *is* the prophesy in-universe. At least not that I'm aware of.(Ulicus 17:29, 23 May 2006 (UTC))
      • The thing is, what it says is canon. The entire Son of the Suns thing is a part of the prophecy, since Anakin was born on a planet with two suns. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) Imperial Emblem 19:45, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


This just in: the Chosen One is officially...... unknown! Yes, it's true. I have recieved word that Lumiya will be returning for Legacy of the Force! So we'll just have to see who polishes her off. If it's Anakin's ghost, i'm seriously going to kick someone. And the there's Tremayne and Blackhole too! Even if Lumiya goes down either one of them could declare themselves Dark Lord! Unsigned comment by (talk • contribs).

  • But they aren't Sith. Only Sith-wannabees. Admiral J. Nebulax 02:33, 15 Jan 2006 (UTC)
  • Is that so? Then why is Lumiya listed as Sith on this site? Unsigned comment by (talk • contribs).
    • I suspect Legacy of the Force will reveal the exact relationship between Lumiya's claims to Sithhood and the prophecy of the Chosen One. jSarek 02:53, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

I was just wondering if its possible that the phrase The Time of Greatest Despair could mean Battle of Endor becose if u think the phrase like this. the phrase could very likely mean Battle of Endor because it seemed like Rebels were going to be defeated thus the translation of the phrase. Anakin did appear during the battle thus the translation of the second part of the prophecy the phrase there shall come a savior. Dark Lord 20:32 28.5.2006

  • No, the time of greatest despair was most likely the Galactic Civil War as a whole. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) Imperial Emblem 20:53, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
    • And where in your copy of the entire prophecy does it state the Chosen One destroys every Sith in the galaxy, present and future? Because I, like every other user on this site, do not actually have proof concerning the exact nature of the prophecy - Kwenn 20:56, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
      • Yes, we don't have any proof on the exact nature of the prophecy, but if Anakin Skywalker was indeed the Chosen One as George Lucas said, "the time of greatest despair" sounds like the Galactic Civil War. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) Imperial Emblem 20:59, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
        • And moreover, he's the only one explicitly stated as being the Chosen One in-universe, regardless of how much the Jedi believed the prophecy could have been misread. So as far as proof goes, we have nothing on any character other than Anakin, so any such talk is speculation, and, as we know, is not particuarly welcome in articles. "He is the Chosen One. You must see it." - Kwenn 21:02, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
          • Well said. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) Imperial Emblem 21:03, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
            • While I believe Anakin is the Chosen One because Lucas has said so it also fits the Prophecy of him rising up at the time of greatest dispair is the moment that he decides to save Luke. When the Emperor is killing Luke, the last of the jedi and the last hurdle to ruling the galaxy and destroying the rebellion, is the time of greatest dispair. If the entire civil war was the time, then Anakin would have risen up at the beginning. my .02 Stinkywookie 19:54, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
              • I don't think so. Here's how I see it: Deep within his armor in his heart, he longed for his wife and child. When he learned of the son of Skywalker, I think he longed to have him not as an apprentice but as a son. Anakin Skywalker still lived within the mechanical monster called Darth Vader, and I believe his good self started to affect his bad self's judgement when he learned Luke was alive. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) Imperial Emblem 21:07, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
                • I disagree. Vader still wanted Luke to help him overthrow the Sids up to when he brought him to the DSII. That entire scene is about the two Sith Lords vying to turn Luke to their side so that they could join up and destroy the third. You are right in saying that Anakin was awakening since Empire but he did not come back to the light and rise up until he saw his son being destroyed.Stinkywookie 14:36, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
                  • I'm not saying that Anakin took over as of ESB, I'm just saying that Anakin was struggling to become himself again and defeat Darth Vader. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) Imperial Emblem 19:40, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
                    • As to the question of why Anakin didn't turn against Palpatine at the start of the Civil War, the answer lies in why he didn't turn against him the moment he realized Palpatine had decieved him in RotS. The novelization reveals Vader's rage in the EmPalSuRecon center was perhaps intended to destroy Palpatine too, but he knew he could no longer wield Anakin's power - "and in the end, he did not even want to" strike Palpatine down, for Palpatine was now his entire world. That, of course, changes with the introduction of Luke into the mix, and it is here Vader's priorities change. Dark Lord also reveals Vader knows full well Palpatine's Force lightning could kill him in an instant, and Palpatine even uses this as a threat against him. But, as of Luke's most desperate hour in RotJ, Vader no longer cares about his own wellbeing - Kwenn 19:50, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Son of the sunsEdit

Neither Anakin nor Luke was actually from Tatooine. Luke is, of course, from Polis Massa and Anakin was born on an unnamed water planet which a certain North Carolinian cabinetmaker would have you belive is called "Thessius". (Don't do SuperShadow, kids. Is no good for you :) )

  • They were both "from" Tatooine from a certain point of view. ;) QuentinGeorge 02:15, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Anyone know any born-Tatooinian Jedi?
  • A'Sharad Hett, i think.
  • Hett family members are also from Tatioone, like Sharad Hett(Dtlwarrior 19:26, 15 June 2008 (UTC))
    • Along with any member of the Diath family. QuentinGeorge 02:49, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
    • The Sunrider family is also native Tatooinian. Through Andur of course not Nomi.--Kyp-Durron 03:04, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Here's a possible explaination (which I completely made up):

Yes, this quote predates the "Chosen One" prophecy by decades, but it still could make sense. Both Skywalkers were "from" Tatooine, from a certain point of view, as you have said, which is what Lucas has explained. But neither was never known as "the sun of the suns". Vader, however, was known as a Dark Lord, so perhaps this could be a double-ententre; Revenge of the Sith suggests that Anakin was conceived by the biological exparimentation of Plagueis and Sidious, "sons" (pun intended) of the dark side, as in brothers. Or rather, Vader was known as a Dark Lord, a member of the brotherhood of the Sith, "sons" of the darkside. So he could be the "biological" son of two dark lords who can be considered sons of the dark side, or a son of the brotherhood--and known as a dark lord--who are sons of the dark side.

Biblical-style quotations are, after all, meant to be misleading, and often include puns and different points of view. Bredd13 04:34, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

I have my own theory on this as well: There is the galaxy, and the galaxy is made up of mostly stars. Suns are stars: stars with planets orbiting around them. So from "the Suns," think of "the stars," and from that, think of "the galaxy." Okay, with that in place, think of Obi-Wan's comment on the nature of the Force: "It is an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us, penetrates us, it binds the galaxy together." So now we have the galaxy and the Force being tied together in a symbiotic relationship. So Anakin was the "Son of the Suns," or meaning the galaxy, which exists in union with the Force. Thusly, Anakin is the "Son of the Force." 03:52, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Quote from George Lucas Edit

From the introductory documentary for A New Hope, Special Edition (on the VHS version):

"The first film starts with the last age of the Republic, which is it's getting tired, it's old, it's getting corrupt.

There's the rise of the Sith, who are becoming a force, and in the backdrop of this we have Anakin Skywalker, a young boy who is destined to be a significant player in bringing balance back to the Force and to the Republic...

Then in the second film we get into more of that turmoil. It's the beginning of the Clone Wars, it's the beginning of the end of democracy in the Republic, sort of the beginning of the end of the Republic. And it's Anakin Skywalker beginning to deal with some of his more intense emotions of Anger, Hatred, Sense of Loss, Possesiveness, Jealousy, and the other things he has to cope with.

And then we will get to the 3rd film where he is seduced to the Dark Side..

Which brings us up to the films 4, 5, and 6, in which Anakin's offspring redeem him and allow him to fulfill the prophecy where he brings Balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and getting rid of evil in the universe..."

More details here, although the rest is personal extrapolation:

I have a little problem with the phrase "Despite these claims, George Lucas maintains..." It implies that George acknowledges the opinion but contradicts it. A more objective statement would be simply to say "George Lucas maintains...", because in reality, he has always maintained that stance, and its a few fans that attempt to contradict the meaning of the plot point.

As a side note, however, I'm glad to see the "One could argue that the Force was Balanced in the Prequels" blurb was removed. Objectivity can be easily undermined by the language we choose to use. Removal of that greatly improved the reliability of the information by not presenting opinion as something validated by un-named sources.

Dark Moose out

  • Please put all comments at the bottom of talk pages, okay? I've noticed that you don't a lot. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 00:07, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
  • On the episode 3 special features there is a whole thing about Darth Vadar and how he is the chosen one and Lucas even says he is the chosen one. Luke just helps him to become that -- 04:31, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

linking in the prophecy Edit

The prophecy isn't directly linked to Anakin Skywalker or The Galactic civil war. It was just believed that those were incarnations of the prophecy but nobody can prove that was the true prophecy being embodied. --UVnet 01:10, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

  • Lucas himself said that Anakin was the Chosen One. Therefore, I reverted it. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 01:50, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Lucas didn't plan out any of the new upcoming novels. Some retcon is going to occur.
    • Not really. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) Imperial Emblem 20:19, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
      • I doubt this could be retconned, but I am excellent in finding loopholes. The prophecy declared that the Chosen one would destroy the Sith in the time of greatest despair. Well, Does the prophecy explicitly say that it is the only prophecy? Or that there could not be more times of great despair? I do say not. So, more questions, but it would help explain Darth Krayt and that chick with the really horrible name. An uber Sith fan
        • The point is, Anakin Skywalker is the Chosen One no matter what. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) Imperial Emblem 23:55, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
          • Upon reading through Revan's profile, would it not make sense to consider the plausibility behind the idea that there's a Chosen One pertaining to certain eras? I say this because Revan and Anakin functioned in very similar roles and shared similar objectives, leading me to believe that Revan was the Chosen One of his time, which is also the case for Anakin.

Bringing balance to the force would mean through actions that affect the force itself (both good and bad) would come a Balance in the Light and Dark Sides of the force sense one can't exist without the other. 00:35, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

  • Or it could simply be destroying both the Jedi and the Sith orders. Drewton Era-old (Drewton's Holocron) 00:38, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Thats technically impossible because one always sprouts to destroy the other. However because both factions of light and dark constantly get unbalanced this could be interpreted as what the last person said of it being relative to the era. Thus this can be retconned. On the other hand it could mean a great catastrophe where the catalyst of the the incident is the chosen one. 00:35, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Chosen One Edit

What canonical evidence is there that Anakin is the chosen one?

  • What canonical evidence is there that anyone else is the Chosen One? Anakin fulfils the prophecy in the terms stated by Obi-Wan on Mustafar; he destroys the Sith and brings balance to the Force - Kwenn 10:38, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

1.What does it mean to bring balance to the force? 2.He didnt destroy the Sith because The reborn Palpatine was also a Sith and also Darth Krayt and Darth Talon and the other sith

  • It doesn't matter, because George Lucas said he was the Chosen One. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) Imperial Emblem 11:15, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
  • He did destroy the Sith; Dooku, Sidious and Vader. And if you think that that's the end of it, that by destroying those three, the Sith can never, ever return, then you're perfectly suited for a place on the Jedi Council. They didn't believe the Sith could return either...right up to the point where Qui-Gon got diced by...yep, a Sith. Bringing balance and maintaining balance are two concepts people tend to easily confuse - Kwenn 11:23, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

I think Anakin is the chosen one. He brought balance to the force by making the number of jedi the same as the number of sith. Obi-Wan and Yoda for the jedi and Darth Vadar and Darth Sidous for the sith. Also, Anakin destroys the sith by throwing Sidous down the shaft and in doing so also kills himself from the force lightning --Dumac 00:52, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I am sick of people talking about an equal number of Jedi vs. Sith as being the balance of the Force. This shows a terrible ignorance of galactic history. During the Great Hyperspace War, the Sith Wars, and Battles of Ruusan the numbers were much much closer to even. People need to look at other Sith uprisings besides the Great Jedi Purge. Besides if the prophesy only had to do with an end of the Sith it would have been fullfilled before the movies. Remember that as far as the Jedi were concerned the Sith were gone after the Seventh Battle of Ruusan. If the end of the Sith was all that the prophesy delt with then Lord Hoth or Lord Farfalla would have been proclaimed the Chosen One centuries before Anakin or Luke were ever born. What the prophesy deals with is balance of the Force. Remember how Yoda and Mace Windu discuss how the Jedi's ability to use the Force was weakening? This is the affect of the unbalance that needed correcting. The whole mechanics of it I am really fuzzy on too but stop claiming that balance was achieved by having 2 Sith and 2 Jedi. --Kyp-Durron 03:16, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

  • This may sound stupid but what if there was a chosen FAMILY. The Skywalkers. First you have Anikin who destroyes Douku, Palpatine, and Vader. Then Luke who destroyes the reborn Palpitine. Get the picture?
    • Yes, and no. "Chosen One", remember? - \\Captain Kwenn// Ahoy! 16:23, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
  • heres my therory on why he was the chosen one, he distroyed both the sith and the jedi to kind of "reset" the force for the new jedi and new sith. (Verlok 00:35, 19 June 2008 (UTC))
  • i guess he is beacause after he killd Sidious almost all sith knowledge was lost. However Vader trained a girl i forget and she became a sith with all sith knowledge.

Whills and JediEdit

OK, why does the Son of the Suns thing keep getting tied in to the Jedi prophecy? The Son of the Suns quote comes from the Journal of the Whills, which, if it's even an in-universe document (and there's no proof to say it is), it doesn't even have anything to do with the Jedi. It was written by the Whills, who appear to have to direct connection with the Jedi Order, since Qui-Gon learns the secret of eternal life from a Whill Shaman, while none of the other Jedi are aware of this teaching. Also, this quote is seemingly referring to Luke, not Anakin, who is not the Chosen One. It was a prefix to the ANH novel, written at a time when Luke was the Saga's only saviour. The TPM novel has Obi-Wan muse on the fact that there are hundreds of ancient prophecies, so why must these two be linked? One is referring to Luke (who rises during the time of greatest despair, when the Empire has already assumed control, unlike Anakin, who appeared during a time of peace) whereas the other is about Anakin, concerning the Chosen One who will, as stated by Mace and Obi-Wan, "bring balance to the Force" and "destroy the Sith". I recommend all references to the Journal of the Whills be removed from this article (other than perhaps a note on their similiarities in a BTS section) since at this point, it's all conjecture - Kwenn 09:51, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

  • If the Journal of the Whills quote is truly referring to Luke, then it must be removed, since Anakin is the Chosen One. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) Imperial Emblem 11:06, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
    • I believe so. At that time, Anakin Skywalker had been a Jedi Knight slain by Vader. The prophecy, as defined by the Prequels, did not exist. Luke was on his Hero's Journey, and so the role of saviour was placed on his shoulders. There are any number of prophecies about the Skywalkers; I believe Bodo Baas recites one concerning the events of Dark Empire - Kwenn 11:09, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
      • Yeah—brother and sister walk the sky, brother falls. Anyway, Anakin was the Chosen One, so we might as well just put that quote in the Behind the Scenes section. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) Imperial Emblem 11:10, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
  • I've re-written the article, including a BTS piece on the Son of the Suns misconception - Kwenn 11:30, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
    • Nice job. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) Imperial Emblem 11:31, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
      • When you really think about it, (based on the Jedi's predictions at least) the Chosen One pretty much did diddly squat. Yoda, as he always is, was absoluteley right. Let's count misinterpretations, shall we?

-Time misread (Galactic Civil War, not Clone War)

-Misread the fact that balance mat mean dark=light; as such, Anakin brought balance when he became the second Sith.

-Even if it does mean only light, they still misread the fact that the One might need help.

-Mistook "brings balance" for "maintains balance".

So, yeah some pretty big mistakes thar. Another topic of intrest is the fact that the Jedi seem to want us to belive that there was ONLY a Light Side until the split 7000 years ago. Again, a lot of contradictions: Adas, the Killik Sith, Trayus Academy, and the 10000 year-old holocron from Sadow's time, and I'm sure there are others, too. My final topic is that the Chosen One is chosen. So, who is the Chooser? I made the articles for Food-kin, Digit Droids, the Red Sith, Finn's apprentice, a bunch of minor aliens and Imperials, and most of the cast of the Holiday Special :)

  • Well, the chooser would be the Force—it would choose who would be the Chosen One and when he would come. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) Imperial Emblem 12:58, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
    • Errrr... so, wait.... Is the Force (Schwartz?) a sentient being capable of making decisions for itself? If so.... GAH! The symbolism! Getitoffme! GET IT OOOOOOFFFFFFFF MEEEEEEEE! Also, another query: You seem to take Lucas's word in the identity of the One as canon over here, yet at Artoo's article, it is astated that Lucas's word on the matter of the story being from Artoo's perspective might not be canon. ?????????? They're both from the same source! So which is it? Both or neither? Rod
      • Since Lucas is the originator of the whole thing, we can take his intent as part of the content of the movies, however, his, like all quotes from people involved in production, are not in themselves canon; in the case of R2-D2, it doesn't appear likely Lucas' off-hand comment is part of continuity - Kwenn 19:19, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
        • You mean the re-telling of the events of 32 BBY, 22 BBY, 19 BBY, 0 BBY, 3 ABY, and 4 ABY in 104 ABY? Anyway, Lucas's word on this should definitely be taken as canon. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) Imperial Emblem 19:23, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that's it. Goodnight, don't let Ghana Gleemort hit you on the way out


Here's an interesting take on balance, from Evil Never Dies: The Sith Dynasties, and possibly one of the few sources that states the nature of balance: "Simply, if the will of the Force demands balance, then evil can never die". So here, balance is being taken literally to mean both light and dark—though seemingly only that, so actual numbers of Jedi and Sith don't seem to matter. As long as there are dark and light siders in the Galaxy, there is balance - Kwenn 09:50, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

  • That's very true. You can't just have one side of the Force—you need both. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) Imperial Emblem 11:45, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Has anybody considered that balance means no force users. A polarized piece of metal generates equal (+) and (-) magnetic fields. If you balance, or resolve, the forces in this magnet it is at peace. It generates no fields. Interestingly, this would explain why no force exists in present day earth. It was balanced a long, long time ago. Now the universe is at rest, spiritually.

This is just speculation. I personally dislike the ABY EU. A ressurected Palpatine and Luke falling to the dark side? Suddenly the final battle in ROTJ seems pretty insignificant.

Bad IdeaEdit

  • Ok I've heard and read a lot of debate and interpretation of the Chosen One prophesy and I think the whole thing was a bad idea. Let's face it, the Chosen One prophesy was thrown into the Expanded Universe just as a way to put another Messiah motiff into another film which goes on in all art forms everywhere 24/7. The motiff of one great Messiah figure doesn't fit into the Star Wars Universe well at all. Let's be painfully honest here, the Sith are not destroyed by the Chosen One whether you are referring to Anakin or Luke. They rise again (and if you think otherwise learn your history). Plus how many times have the Jedi thought that the Sith were extinct (and most times there were no live practicing Sith) and then they rose again. Even if there are no Sith for a while you do not have to be trained by a live Sith Lord in order to become one yourself. You just need to learn Sith techniques. You can learn these from a live mentor, a Force ghost (which happened a lot if you know your history), or from holocrons or scrolls (which also happened). Thus, until all Sith artifacts and living practitioners (whether they are Force-sensative or non-Force-sensatives who know Sith lore) have been destroyed the Sith will always have the potential to rise again. Plus, if destroying a Sith uprising were what defined the Chosen One then we would have dozens of Chosen Ones. Again learn your history and you will see that this is true. So really the Messiah motiff is already ingrained in Star Wars, but there are many, many Messiah figures. To try to make "THE CHOSEN ONE" was a big mistake that just threw off the flow of the EU. Now aside from quelling a Sith uprising there is the question of bringing balance to the Force. This has also been greatly debated and no one can seem to figure it out, which only adds to my feelings that bringing it into the EU at all was a bad idea. But let's look at it more closely. The Force is constantly shifting, thus we get the famous "I felt a great disturbance in the Force" lines. Plus the Force is not of the same strength or the same light to dark ratios in all places. So really where ever you go you will feel the balance of the Force shifting around. So let's assume that by "balancing the Force" there is an over arching, far reaching imbalance able to be felt in the vast majority of places which cannot be corrected on a local level. First off this introduces the problem of what caused this imbalance because we have about 20,000 years of Force use before this imbalance where everything was fine as far as we know. Some could argue that it was caused by the Sith. This is easily seen as a foolish arguement since we also have several thousand years of Sith activity without causing any imbalance. Some could argue that the imbalance was caused by the existance of an individual as strong in the Force as Anakin Skywalker. In this sinerio then the solution is simply the death of Anakin. But this doesn't explain why other extraordinarily strong individuals did not also cause a similar imbalance. For example Kyp Durron is much much stronger than Luke and Luke has to be at least close to the level of Anakin/Vader or else he would not have been able to challenge him. Thus we can deduce that Kyp is much stronger than Anakin but Kyp causes no imbalance and thus this arguement is shown to be incorrect. So we can find no cause of an imbalance but for arguement sake let us assume that one can exist without a cause. What does Anakin do to correct it? Kill Palatine? Well we have already proven that destroying a Sith uprising does not make you "the Chosen One" so this arguement is unfounded. Does having fathered Luke who will rebuild the Jedi make Anakin "the Chosen One"? Perhaps this has merit since you could argue that the Jedi Order had strayed from its previous virtue by moving to Coruscant and getting too issolated and involved in politics. But this can also be shown to be an ineffective arguement since once Luke finally does get the Order moved back to it's original planet Ossus, Luke's Order is just as issolated and involved in politics as the Order had been before. So what great, lasting effect did the lifes of Anakin and Luke Skywalker have in the grand scheme of things? None. Be honest here people. When Anakin and Luke are dead the Sith are still a threat, the Jedi still have major problems, even if there was a great imbalance in the Force other than its normal modulations it was very short lived. And since we can find no cause for this imbalance and we can neither find any way that any character could have corrected it, does it really make any sense at all to put this imbalance into the story in the first place? I say no, it makes no sense. Be honest with me folks, Lucas screwed up. The EU would have been much much much better off if "the Chosen One" idea was never put into it. It was a very bad idea.--Kyp-Durron 16:05, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Anakin is the Chosen One. He restored balance by destroying the last two Sith, regardless of what happened before or after. Kyp is not more powerful than the Skywalkers, he only thinks he is. It's canon - \\Captain Kwenn// Ahoy! 16:09, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
  • You are wrong in many of your thoughts, young one. First off Anakin did not destroy the last two Sith. More Sith arise after the deaths of Darth Sidious and Darth Vader so they are not the last two Sith. Plus, as I said killing "the last Sith" has happened over and over again in the EU. Look at the Great Hyperspace War, the Sith Wars, the Battles of Ruusan, the defeat of the Disciples of Ragnos. All are instances where "the last of the Sith" were claimed to have been vanquished. So are all of the people involved in all of these victories Chosen Ones? No. So what makes the Skywalkers so special to be able to claim this title? Nothing. Now to address the issue of Kyp. Have you read Jedi Search? If not then read it before you make any further comments. In it you will learn of the technique for measuring an individuals Force abilities by probing the unconcious parts of their minds. If they are non-Force-sensatives nothing happens. If they are Force-sensatives their unconciousnesses reflexively throws the one probing them away from them. The more violent the reaction, the greater the individuals strength. When Luke probes Leia, or vis versa they are thrown to the ground. When Luke probes Kyp he is thrown clear accross the room and into the opposite wall. This proves that Kyp is much stronger in the Force than the Skywalkers. An whether something is canon or not does not make it a good idea. That is the whole reason we need to have so much retcon. You still have much to learn young one.--Kyp-Durron 16:29, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
    • Calm down. I know my Star Wars history. The fact remains, Anakin = Chosen One is canon. "We" can't retcon anything. I think it is you who has much to learn about the way fandom and canon work - \\Captain Kwenn// Ahoy! 16:58, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Oh I know how it works. And believe me I am the first one to say that it is good that the fans don't control the EU or it would be horribly horribly screwed up. However, that does not change the fact putting something into the EU as canon, such as the Chosen One, can be a bad idea and throw off the mythology and chronology in bad ways. Just look at the terrible continuality issues putting the Death Star into the prequels created. Now what happened to Maw Installation, The Tarkin Doctrine, Qwi Xux, and all the stories surrounding the design and construction of that grand battle station. It is canon, and it is a problem. Both at the same time. We have to accept that because we can do nothing about it. But that does not make it a good idea on the part of those who can do something about it. The same can be said for the doctrine of the Chosen One. It is canon and it is a problem at the same time. Thus it is a bad idea. Accept it we must, agree with it we must not. --Kyp-Durron 17:04, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Indeed. Has anyone ever watched Buffy the Vampire Slayer?

The Master: But... but it was written that you would die!
Buffy: I did.
Buffy: I got better.

(Ulicus 19:49, 22 February 2007 (UTC))

The whole "Chosen One" thing is a bad idea, and here's why. When Anakin/Vader is burning to death in ROTS, Palpatine chooses to save him despite knowing of the prophecy. Oh sure, he might not be definitely sure that Anakin IS the chosen one, but why take the risk?

I think it is impossible for most star wars fans to understand the Chosen-One-Prophecy because of the following points:

(1) We don't know the complete text (And it seems that it is even in-universe-unknown). So an interpretation will always be wrong.
(2) We don't know how old the prophecy is. Just to make an example: If it is cave-old then it may already be fulfilled by, for example founding the Jedi-Order (or alternatively Sith-Order).
(3) We don't know IF it is fulfilled. Maybe we still have to wait.
(4) We don't know whether it is nonsense or not. Are all prophecies true? Is there some loophole in the prophecy, so there is a chance it will never be fulfilled? (remember point (1)). Do YOU believe in old prophecies?
(5) -the most important one- star wars fans always want to include all the EU. I don't know what you are thinking, but do you think that George Lucas KNOWS every piece of EU? Or at least CONTROLS it? Or do you think that he even took regard to existing EU when writing the prequel-scripts? I think: No. And the load of retcons and still-inconsistencies speaks for that.
So if you take only the core of canon - the movies -, then you have a pretty balance of two Sith and two Jedi after ROTS. And you have no Sith after ROTJ. This doesn't solve the interpretation problem, because you still don't know when the prophecy was fulfilled. But at least you have some clear situations. With EU, you will never know if the Sith are dead, how many Jedi are left, or if the prophecy is about incidents in the movies at all (or in any piece of already filmed, written, programmed,... star wars history).--TeakHoken91.7.20.85 17:23, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

True Balance Edit

Another way of looking at it could be the complete opposite of what most people see in the movies. The Jedi did assume that the Chosen One would be a Jedi. Who wouldn't assume that their personal side was the right side. But it also true that the Sith have a "Chosen One" prophecy which is almost identical to that of the Jedi's. In essence, the prophecy is vague. The way i see it, with the apparent destruction of the Sith and restructuring of the Republic on around 1000 BBY (forgive me guys, but I'm TERRIBLE with specific dates), the Jedi assumed the role of the most powerful Force-using group in the galaxy. Throughout the history of the Republic there had always been a tetering balance between the Galactic Republic and the often hidden or unknown Sith Empire in the galaxy. But in the Millenium leading up to the Star Wars series, there was no Sith Empire and the defeated and demoralized Sith retreated into the Unknown Regions with no political or military power to speak of. with the Jedi in complete power over the Force-using groups, there was no balance. There always has to be a balance between good and evil. In the Old Republic, there was only good and no evil to balance it out.

One could even argue that the Jedi lost sight of their mission to vanquish dark side users during this time and became too caught up in the political aspect of the Republic.

Anakin came along, the Chosen One, and with his help the Emperor overthrew the Galactic Republic and established a new Sith Empire. Power was then shifted from being completely light side to being completely dark side for a few decades, then the Empire was overthrown by the Rebellion and the Jedi were once again put back into a position of power among force-using groups. but in the expanded universe, there is a huge number of dark side adepts and Dark Jedi for the Jedi to battle. And the Imperial Remnant under Palpatine's clones was still a powerful force both militarily and in the Dark Side of the force because it trains Dark Jedi. Taking everything into account from the time before the movies, the movies themselves, and the Expanded Universe cronicling the period after the movies, true balance WAS restored in the end.

think about that... haha 05:08, 20 April 2007 (UTC)Sean

OK. You have some cool thoughts, ideed. But your whole thesis rises and falls with the age of the Chosen-One-Prophecy. Your thesis is great if the Chosen-One-Prophecy is from the time when the Jedi Order was as mighty. If it is older, maybe even 20000 years older, then it is nonsense. Because these times were as "balanced", if this is another word for warlike, as the times after the movies.--TeakHoken91.7.20.85 16:44, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

You are wrong. The meaning of "Restore to Balance" has been stated by George Lucas as meaning that all Dark Side users are removed from the galaxy and the Light Side reachieves total dominance; it does *not* refer to some yin-yang 50/50 split between Light and Dark. All the post RotJ EU stuff with Dark Jedi was mostly created before that statement and IMO should now be declare non-canon as it contradicts the movies. -- 05:09, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Let me show you the problem with that belief.George Lucas also said evil was removed from the galaxy. but as someone said on the discussion on the balance of the Force page,"No it means George Lucas is delusional and believes that evil can possibly be removed from the galaxy and made this his divine law in his very own made up galaxy as a way of coping with the obvious fact that this isn't going to happen in the real world. When he says something at odds with all wisdom both in and out of universe, it can be safely disregarded as his own flawed(in this case deeply flawed) point of view and not something that should dictate future Star Wars storyline possibilities."

GRRR!! Edit

How could Anakin be the chosen one if he didn't destroy sith? 150 years after he dies, there are still sith?!?!?

  • If Anakin was he chosen 1 then shouldn't everything after e6 with sith be non canical?Meesa yoda 21:17, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
    • Perhaps, but I think that your interpretation of the prophecy may be a little off. There are many, many fan interpretations of the prophecy of the Chosen One, but I'm sure they've all already been gone over on this talk page, or in the article itself. π = 3 Sith Emblem (Talk to me, babe.) 21:20, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
Your're 100% right, that's why I have now resolved to ignore everything from the whole "Legacy era" thing as it outright contradicts the movies by bringing the Empire and Sith back. -- 04:51, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

It contradicts it out-of-universe, but there is zero contradiction in-universe.And of course the Empire has continued to exist for many years in EU, the idea the overthrow of the Emperor would completely destroy it is absurd.The Empire though is different.It is no longer the same Empire of the past but a benevolent one under a different Emperor not chosen by Palpatine or his duly appointed successor.Therefore, the new Empire is exactly that.And the Sith are a new Sith with different doctrines. --Unsigned comment by [[User:|]] ([[User talk:|talk]] • contribs).

I disagree completely. The EU idea that the Empire would continue to exist in any form after the death of the Emperor is completely absurd. It'd be like Nazi Germany still being a state in modern day Europe to this day even though they lost the 2nd World War. let's put a little perspective on this issue: The Empire existed for all of 24 years, wheras the Republic had existed for 25,000 years prior to that, having survived countless insurgencies, insurrections, civil wars etc. during that time. Let me just say that again to make absolutely clear: Twenty-Five thousand years. That's almost 3 times as long as human beings in the real world have even had civilization. You can't erase that kind of history in 24 measly years. No way is the miniscule little blip of Palpatine's Empire going to last beyond his death. The Republic would have just snapped right back into place as it had already done countless times in its history. -- 05:38, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
The Empire was not completely and utterly defeated with the death of Palpatine. Also, your analogy of Nazi Germany is fallacious: the Third Reich fell not because of the death of Hitler, but because it was completely and utterly annihilated by the Allied armies. Any assumption that it would simply have fallen apart should Hitler have been assassinated in the years previous to 1943 - whilst the Reich was still strong and expanding - is also incorrect, and under Hermann Goering, Hitler's successor, it may have been quite possible for Germany to come to some kind of a truce after such a loss (in Star Wars, the Pellaeon-Gavrisom Treaty), and thus may have survived far longer.
To return to the subject of the Galactic Empire, after the death of Palpatine it was far from defeated. The Rebel Alliance had indeed gained a lot of ground with the destruction of the Second Death Star, but with hundreds of worlds still held by the Empire there would still be a great distance to go before the Empire could be weakened to the point of submission.
You are correct in believing that the Republic must have been a strong democractic system to have survived for such an extended period of time. However its' age is irrelevant; many of the population alive at the fall of Palpatine had either been born or had lived for quite a long time under the New Order. Who cares if it was 25,000 years or 250 years? With an average lifespan of only 100 years of age, few sentients would really notice the difference. To bring this back into real life terms, the Roman Republic had existed for 500 years before Julius Caesar initiated regime change, yet the new order of the Roman Empire managed to survive his death and continue undivided for over 400 years thereafter. Even after this, it can be argued that the Roman Empire lived on in the form of the Byzantine Empire until its collapse in 1453.
As with the Roman Republic, the culture and history of the Galactic Republic was never erased; it just adjusted to the rise of a New Order. The Empire was the Republic's technically legal successor, and to a degree it fulfilled the same functions as the Republic. So what reason could there be for its immediate total collapse? With a still formidable standing army, very little.
So that's the historical dissection. In terms of a nice plot and a good story, the existence of the Empire after the Emperor's death lacks drama. Sure, it's unrealistic; but historical accuracy should rarely be prioritized in a fantasy movie... --Kessel 13:54, 18 June 2008 (UTC)


Ugh, do we really need that BtS comment about an "impressive chain of events" that makes Revan indirectly responsible for the Chosen One? If you're going to go down that route, essentially everyone in the entire franchise is indirectly responsible. Do we need another Revan circle-jerk? - Captain Kwenn Talk 22:32, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Bias Edit

What about the fact that George Lucas - and the entire Star Wars movie series - is Jedi-biased? I'd maintain that the Jedi brought disharmony to the Force by holding power for over a thousand years, and Anakin brought balance by effectively destroying the Jedi. Yes, I know Lucas says that the Jedi way is the "true" way, and that Anakin brought balance to the Force, but we discount Lucas' bias. What one (even Lucas, who ultimately decides canonicity) believes through cultural bias and what is true are two different things. --Ryuken 23:26, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

What possible "cultural bias" could Lucas have? You do know that The Force and the Jedi don't exist in the real world, right!? All he has to go on is the product of his own imagination, which is what created Star Wars in the first place. That's the only thing that is "true" in the Star Wars setting. It's not a Jedi bias, it is just simply the way that world works. Now if you want to invent a Star Wars universe in which the greedy Jedi Order lord it over the Force and jealously beat down the innocent Sith whenever they attempt to liberate it from the Jedi's evil grip, then sure, you can do that; but you should understand that's pure fanfiction and *not* the way the actual Star Wars universe works. -- 05:03, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Frankly George Lucas gets too much credit.Sure he can make statements about objective things in the Star Wars Universe, but he cannot declare the morality.Morality as concieved in his mind is real world human morality,so applying it to the Star Wars universe,his invention or not, makes it just another point of view.He handed over the rights to create an EU,and as such,in my opinion,he surrenders the right to rule over everything in it with an iron fist.Frankly he and his little control freak cronies are the Empire in my opinion.

To put it clearly, it doesn't matter what our opinions are. We can believe the Dark Side is an equal and necessary side of the Force, we can believe the Prophecy refers to equal numbers, we can believe Luke was the Chosen One, we can believe there's a Grey Side to bring harmony between them, we can believe Han Shot First (and do I ever believe in that! ;D), we can believe all sorts of things, but all of this doesn't matter. Star Wars is not ours. It is a toy, given to us by a fella so he can make money and express his creativity. He has graciously allowed other people to express their creativity in his toy, but he remains the ultimate creator. Sure, he can't claim credit for Talon Karrde and Corran Horn and suchlike, but every story ultimately leads back to his movies and his creation. If I wrote a best seller and someone came up to froth in my face, telling me that I'm wrong, that my hero couldn't possibly be what I say he is, then I'm going to quietly smile and nod and wait for security to chuck him out, then I'm going to continue doing whatever it is I did. Let me reiterate: George Lucas cannot be Jedi-biased because he is the policy setter, the standard against which all other things Star Wars is measured. You don't get to tell someone else what their creation is about, and if you sit and think about it for a minute you'll realize that's a good thing. So the ideas of morality are simplistic for the most part... there's greys here and there; look at Han Solo, Boba Fett, and Lando Calrissian, in the original three movies alone, and that's only a sample! Lighten up, people, it's a science-fiction fantasy story made for entertainment, be glad he made the thing in the first place, be glad it was good enough and relevant enough to withstand the test of time and still seem fresh and wonderful, and if you have problems with George Lucas, criticize him where an artist deserves to be criticized. A flat morality is worthy of criticism (though with the aforementioned examples, you can clearly see Star Wars is NOT free of ambiguity,) as is poor writing, poor casting, choppy directing, some horrible decisions (Han Shot Second...) and terribly dull action sequences, but don't presume you can tell a creator he's wrong about his world, because when you can tell someone their creation, their creative brainchild, is wrong and force it down their throats, then you've opened up a bleak Pandora's Box of possibilities for censorship and the tearing up of an important endeavor. We don't rewrite Shakespeare, we leave the originals intact somewhere when we write our parodies and our homages and our blatant cribs. If you want to write Star Wars your way... tough; write a parody, write a homage. If you're going to write for real in Star Wars, you gotta obey the rules; sure, some artists may not mind, but that's their rules, and this particular artist you maligned has made his. You either play in his sandbox or you find your own, it's that simple. As much as I hate it, Han Did Not Shoot First, and that won't change unless he changes his mind. Jachra 09:08, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

George Lucas said that Anakin Skywalker,the Chosen One,brought an end to evil in the universe.In-universe this is contradicted by everything after that point.Out-of-universe,it is contradicted by the sheer impossibility of this. George Lucas,in short, was wrong. What would you do if he says that all the Jedi came back to life after ROTJ and Chewbacca was human? Seems ridiculous,but deciding upon morality and similar things from a god perspective is just as absurd.

I can see reason isn't going to matter here. You might as well say Dungeons and Dragons is 'wrong' with its real and physical manifestations of Good and Evil with that logic, genius. It's a fantasy series. Jachra 05:54, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Balance Edit

Surely "balance" means balance between the Light Side and the Dark Side of the Force, not removing one side of it. George Lucas messed up, and then tried to retcon things instead of admitting he's not infallible.

Nope. Balance is what is natural, unbalance is what is unnatural. The Light Side is natural, the Dark Side is unnatural. To bring balance, you remove the Dark Side. Simple really :) -- 05:26, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
Think of it like the balance of nature; continuously pumping unnatural pollution into the system upsets the balance. Naturally, in-universe there's a host of other opinions, but this seems to be George Lucas' view. -- 10:02, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

based on jesus? Edit

should it be mentioned that the chosen one was obviacly based on the real life 'jesus', eg, they both had no mortal father, jesus' being god and the chosen one being the force. eg, both suppose to bring ballance/peace. Both die forfilling the profacy. just wondering Alexsau1991 23:21, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

"Mythology" quote missing Edit

What were the exact Lucas' words about the Dark Side being like cancer? I've just checked the "Mythology of Star Wars" which was mentioned here as a source and I didn't find anything relevant. Please check if this reference is correct.Unsigned comment by (talk • contribs).

  • anakin was the chosen one how? The chosen one was supposed to be good!!!!!!!!! LIKE LUKE! So i kindu think Luke is the chosen one but IDK?Unsigned comment by Qui-Gon Reborn (talk • contribs).
    • I too just took the time to check this, viewing the special three times to be certain, as I hoped to snag an audio clip of it for a podcast I work with. The quote isn't in there. In fact, NEITHER of the bits on this page that are attributed to that special are actually from the special. Yes, he mentions symbiosis in nature, but that's all. He never once refers to the Light Side as natural, the Dark Side as a cancer that corrupts it, etc. It might be in another interview, but it is NOT from that special. NathanPButler 06:21, January 30, 2011 (UTC)

Clone Wars Edit

There was something mentioned on TCW about a Talz leader known as the Son of the Suns. What gives? Qui-Gon Reborn 08:24, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Conceived by the Force Edit

Isn't it said somewhere in Episode I that since Anakin is conceived by the Force, ( Shmi says he has no father, implying that the Force created him directly) so then he is the Chosen One? --Aramknr1 02:29, September 18, 2009 (UTC) 21:35, October 24, 2009 (UTC) The Force spawned the chosen one to destroy the Jedi Order, as well as the Sith.

In TPM the Jedi order were bound by law to follow the will of the people via democracy and the senate. They were NOT following the will of the force, as they had for thousands of years; they were following the will of the people. Even when the will of the people was corrupted by the politics of Fear to match the will of the Sith. Thus, the Jedi were following the will of the Sith: fighting a never-ending war for national security driven by the people's Fear. This was contrary to the Will of the Force.

To correct this imbalance, the entire Jedi Order had to be wiped out (down to the last padawan) in order to permanently sever the Order's ties to democracy and the Senate -- once the Jedi Order was eradicated, (and the senate dissolved), then future jedi like Luke Skywalker would be free to follow the will of the Force. The Chosen one was spawned by the Force to wipe out ALL force users who were ignoring the will of the Force: Jedi and Sith alike.

In the end, Qui-Gon's path was the correct path: he ignored the will of the senate in order to do "the right thing". He defined "good and evil" by referencing a universal standard (akin to the will of god); meanwhile, the Jedi defined "good" as the "common good" (and evil as anything contrary), as per the opera scene in ROTS. Because of this fundamental discrepancy, The Force spawned its chosen one, and the Jedi Order was wiped out.

The author's message is one of "dynamic morality" versus "static morality"; not light versus dark. The message is, that morality should be constant and handed down by a higher power (like a religion). It should not be ever-changing, and dictated by politics. When we allow our morality to be dictated by politics then we have no reference point for good and evil, and morality changes through the ages, according to the people's Fear. As the Jedi's morality changed over time, the force tipped out of balance. Until eventually the will of the people was identical to that of the Dictator, and the Jedi found themselves following the whims of a Sith Lord. The Force spawned the Chosen One in self-defense, to eradicate the Jedi Order and correct the imbalance.

In the end, a Jedi who uses the force to enact the will of the Force, is in "balance" with the force; BUT a Jedi who uses the force to enact the will of the people, (especially when the people have been corrupted by the politics of Fear), is doomed by the prophecy of the chosen one.

Balance was restored when BOTH Jedi AND Sith were destroyed, and the only force-user left alive in the galaxy had been taught to "..let go his conscious self.." and follow the will of the Force.


X2 is not Chosen One?Оби Ван КенобиImperial Emblem(Imperial Holocron) 14:44, October 19, 2010 (UTC)

Mortis and an alternate ProphecyEdit

In TCW's latest episode, Overlords, It is revealed that a planet/alternate dimension/force construct called Mortis is a conduit which all force flows through, and that it houses two great 'Force Weilders', the Son and the Daughter. They represent the light and dark sides of the force. The Father, another Force Wielder in the realm, keeps balance, but he's getting weak and old. Basically, within the episode Anakin is shown to be the only being able to subdue both at once, but when Father tells him to replace him, Anakin refuses, and tries to leave Mortis. there are two more episodes based on this concept, but some people, including myself, read this as a possible solution to the 'but the prophecy wasn't fulfilled' problem. You're all right, it wasn't fullfilled. Anakin had to stay and keep these two subdued, but he refused. Right there, he rejected his destiny, dooming the galaxy to imbalance and conflict, regardless on whether Dark or Light are winning. Some also think that these two Weilders were the first force users ever (this is implied but not certain), and that it was them who made the force fracture into light and dark in the first place. Now much of this isn't canon. But the fact that this trilogy will undoubtedly redefine the Chosen One Prophecy is true, and perhaps it's worth a mention. I'm just not sure how to go about it without bias. Unsigned comment by Littleloup (talk • contribs).

  • First, sign your posts. Secondly, nothing can be added until after the Secrets Trilogy(the prophecy of the "chosen one" can go any way possible). Otherwise it's speculation. Things should be cleared up by the end of the story arc. Or, hopefully, the season..Korsa3 14:24, January 31, 2011 (UTC)

The Sith --> Darth Bane's OrderEdit

I don't know if this has already been suggested, but I think the prophecy applies only to the Rule of Two. All of the articles I've been reading (including the Order of the Sith Lords and Lumiya's Sith) say that Darth Bane's Sith Order ended at the Battle of Endor. Here's an exact quote: "After a thousand years since the time of Darth Bane and Darth Zannah, the Order of the Sith Lords was effectively destroyed after the deaths of its final two Sith Lords, Darth Sidious and Darth Vader in 4 ABY." I don't know exactly how we could clarify that on the page, but to me it seems that the Chosen One was destined to destroy Darth Bane's Order and the Rule of Two, not the dark side itself. Because at that point, the Force was in balance - there was no "legitimate" Sith Order, and there wasn't a Jedi Order either. There was only scattered dark side agents and a few Jedi or Force-sensitives. The Force was in relative balance... I don't know. That's just the way I see it. --Cade1 18:40, January 16, 2012 (UTC)

Kyle Katarn Edit

Okay, is this an April Fool's Joke or something? When was it ever confirmed that it was actually Kyle who was the Chosen One? I mean, even George Lucas stated it was Anakin. What changed, assuming that the part about Kyle Katarn being the Chosen One is actually true? Weedle McHairybug 12:47, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

lol It's obviously an april fools like superman being in the clone wars with a halo laser sword--Gboy4 12:49, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

  • I'm sorry, but this is for real. You'll have to see our new policy regarding this. JangFett (Talk) 15:48, April 1, 2012 (UTC)
    • Going by what some of the comments in that "policy" stated, they also think its an April Fools joke. And besides, trying to post fanon on the site, especially by rewriting the material on the main stuff on the site, is an extremely bad idea to begin with. Maybe, just maybe if the series didn't even have a plot to begin with, I could understand, but this does have a plot, a large, overarching plot, not to mention, so this is honestly a very bad idea if it isn't an April Fools joke. In fact, some of the people are also hinting that they and several other editors are going to quit the site if this is true. Weedle McHairybug 16:07, April 1, 2012 (UTC)
      • It is not an April Fool's joke. Many are unsure and believe it's one due to the nature of this whole thing. This was confirmed on the 31st, not today. Please have patience as we merge with the fanon wiki. JangFett (Talk) 16:08, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

Your clock stated that it was April 1st, even though it was technically evening of March 31st when it started occurring (as, at least in my case, I'm in Georgia when it was happening, and the wikia clocks use the UK time as its standard, meaning when it becomes midnight in the UK, its about 5-6 PM here in Georgia.). I know because I was there when the edits were beginning. And anyways, since you're a moderator, you could, and SHOULD, have done your job and refused the offer from the fanon wiki to merge with it, even if it did actually happen on March 31st on the actual clock. Weedle McHairybug 16:31, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

Darth Plagueis May Solve ContradictionsEdit

Darth Plagueis offers an explanation for contradictions between the continued existence of the Sith and Anakin's supposedly bringing balance of the Force in spite of this. In the novel, Palpatine and Plagueis literally "wrench" the Force to favor the dark side, causing an imbalance in the Force. In response, the Force creates Anakin, the Chosen One, to destroy Palpatine and Plagueis and undo the imbalance they created. In other words, the post-Endor Sith (including clone Palpatine), while evil, do not represent a threat to the balance of the Force itself. Palpatine and his master had altered the fundamental nature of the Force itself, something Anakin undid when he killed Palpatine, truly bringing balance to the Force. --Edgelesspigeon (talk) 21:28, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

Add in the Chosen One article the person who had originally told that prophecy Edit

Mention the name of the Jedi seer that had told this prophecy, the prophecy that had forseen the coming of the chosen one savior for the jedi, to bring the balance back to the force. You should edit this article with more details.....

  • .... we don't know who it was. Cade Calrayn StupidRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit 05:31, January 18, 2013 (UTC)

Killing palpatine was not what the prophecy was Edit

Anakin never fulfilled the Chosen One prophecy. He obviously didn't when he killed Palpatine because Palpatine ended up not dying. I got a heavy impression that he was supposed to fulfill the prophecy by replacing the Father on Mortis but he didn't and that was that. ^Vitiate^ (talk) 19:17, July 18, 2015 (UTC)

Lost Tribe of Sith = Balancer Edit

Lost Tribe of Sith - The presence of a large population of Sith may be related to the balance of the force. There are no firm numbers I can find on their numbers, but it's conceivable they could be in the hundreds of thousands or millions - they began with hundreds of humans, at least some of which (if not all) were force sensitive, a small enough number that force sensitive genes would spread throughout the entire population. Further evidence of a link is suggested by the Abeloth story line, which is related to the Ones, who pushed balance between Light and Dark, as opposed to dominance of the Light. BrentNewland (talk) 11:06, November 8, 2015 (UTC)

Removing idea that "balance = Light Side" from opening section Edit

In the current version of the opening there are a couple of sentences that read:

"The idea of balance of the Force, a central tenet of the Jedi Order, referred to the ideal state in which the Force existed in nature, namely as the light side. According to Jedi dogma, the presence of the dark side corrupted and destroyed this natural balance, and the Jedi viewed it as their duty to restore it."

There is no reference given for this statement, but looking back at the edit history, it was originally added in this edit with a reference to "The Mythology of Star Wars" special with Bill Moyers and George Lucas. But the interview is available on youtube here, you can see that at 16:40 he actually talks about balancing the Dark Side and the Light Side in ourselves, as opposed to saying that the Light Side itself represented balance: "The film is ultimately about the Dark Side and the Light Side, and those sides are designed around compassion and greed. And we all have those two sides of us, and that we have to make sure those two sides of us are in balance."

The idea that the Dark Side is intrinsically unbalanced may come from a different quote from the interview that can be found here (it seems to be a quote that was mostly edited out of the televised special, since the very first part of the quote, dealing with the story of Buddha, can be heard at 30:20 in the youtube video but the rest isn't included): "One of the themes throughout the films is that the Sith lords, when they started out thousands of years ago, embraced the dark side. They were greedy and self-centered and they all wanted to take over, so they killed each other. Eventually, there was only one left, and that one took on an apprentice. And for thousands of years, the master would teach the apprentice, the master would die, the apprentice would then teach another apprentice, become the master, and so on. But there could never be any more than two of them, because if there were, they would try to get rid of the leader, which is exactly what Vader was trying to do, and that's exactly what the Emperor was trying to do. The Emperor was trying to get rid of Vader, and Vader was trying to get rid of the Emperor. And that is the antithesis of a symbiotic relationship, in which if you do that, you become cancer, and you eventually kill the host, and everything dies." But note that here the comparison is between the Sith and a cancer that causes everything to die, not the Dark Side in general.

Some other quotes I added to the "Behind the scenes" section also show that Lucas thought "balance" was a balance between Light and Dark, like the quote here where he said: "I wanted to have this mythological footing because I was basing the films on the idea that the Force has two sides, the good side, the evil side, and they both need to be there. Most religions are built on that, whether it's called yin and yang, God and the devil--everything is built on the push-pull tension created by two sides of the equation."

So, I think the idea that "balance" meant only the Light Side was based on a misunderstanding of that quote about the Sith being a "cancer" in "The Mythology of Star Wars." And if there are any other sources that suggest a balance = Light Side interpretation, it would probably be best to put them in the "Behind the scenes" section where there's a lot of discussion of what "balance" might mean, rather than stating as a fact in the opening that "balance" is definitely just about the Light Side. So, would anyone object if I remove these lines from the opening? Hypnosifl (talk) 20:17, February 22, 2016 (UTC)

Also, it might seem like the information in the section "The prophecy" on the current version of the page is an independent source for the ideal that "balance" just means the Light Side, but see my discussion with Purpilia at User_talk:Purpilia#Edit_to_.22Chosen_One.22_article_based_on_blacked_out_text_in_The_Jedi_Path--it seems that information actually came from some text that was intended to be blacked-out in *The Jedi Path* but was visible using the amazon preview feature, so the canonicity of that seems doubtful (as I said on Purpilia's talk page, I think that information should also be moved to the "Behind the scenes" section). Hypnosifl (talk) 00:47, February 23, 2016 (UTC)

The Ghost Hand Edit

Should the Nelvaanian prochecy of the ghost hand be shown here? I know that's not exactly the prophecy of the chosen one, but Anakin is that being.Agent Es January 20th, 2018