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Leader?Edit

In episode III dosen't Gunray declare himself as new leader after Grevious's defeat? Gopher dude 11 (talk)

Name changeEdit

I'm wondering if we should move this page's title to Separatist Alliance. Unlike Legends, which extensively used the name Confederacy of Independent Systems before The Clone Wars began saying Separatist Alliance, there are very few canonical mentions of the phrase "Confederacy of Independent Systems." The Clone Wars, as best as I can remember, exclusively uses the name Separatist Alliance. If there are any mentions of the full Confederacy name in the show, they are few and far between. Searching the Databank will show at least 20 mentions of Separatist Alliance, as opposed to 5 for Confederacy of Independent Systems. Unless someone knows of a canon source that officially says that it was formally called the Confederacy of Independent Systems, then I think we should go with the most common name: Separatist Alliance. Thoughts? - Brandon Rhea(talk) 20:13, November 1, 2014 (UTC)

  • I agree, even though I think that the Confederacy of Independant Systems is a better name (Though I'm biased by the EU's use of the term)--Thecrazyweirdo (AKA CommanderAwesome) Talk Contribs 20:37, November 1, 2014 (UTC)
    • Anymore thoughts? It's been over a week! - Brandon Rhea(talk) 22:48, November 9, 2014 (UTC)
      • I, for one, would stick with "Confederacy of Independent Systems." It's still called that way in Tarkin, A New Dawn, Star Wars: Commander, which is solid enough for me. --Lelal Mekha Old Republic military symbol (Audience Room) 10:54, November 15, 2014 (UTC)
        • I say we call the article "Them Dirty Seppys". Just kidding! Actually, I agree with Lelal. With these new, more recent sources calling it the Confederacy of Independent Systems, there's no reason to move it. ProfessorTofty (talk) 12:28, November 15, 2014 (UTC)
          • I agree that it should (or should have since it's already been changed) stay as Confederacy of Independent Systems. Although it's not used as much, I believe it's the more official name of the organization. "Confederacy of Independent Systems" is a bit of a mouthful, so "Separatist Alliance" was used more often since it was shorter. Besides, most people in Star Wars call things by their nicknames. You don't hear Jedi Generals referring to Star Destroyers as Venator Star Destroyers, even though that it's full name, and most of the time the Galactic Republic was only mentioned as the "Republic." That doesn't mean it should be moved to just "Republic," though. I think Separatist Alliance should be moved back to Confederacy of Independent Systems. Cevan (talk) 21:43, January 15, 2015 (UTC)
            • I'm not particularly fond of that name change either, but it seems I've lost that battle long ago. The "Filonization" of canon is now too well ingrained to be fought. So be it. But I fear the next step will be to rename the Alliance to Restore the Republic... --Lelal Mekha Old Republic military symbol (Audience Room) 21:48, January 15, 2015 (UTC)
              • I wouldn't call this instance Filonization, though. The full name, "Confederacy of Independent Systems," was mentioned a couple times throughout TCW. This is a canon name; it's not exclusive to the EU. Just because it wasn't used as much though doesn't mean it isn't the proper name. Clones don't go around calling Republic gunships "Low Altitude Assault Transports," which is their full name. I still think we should move this page back to Confederacy of Independent Systems. Cevan (talk) 21:54, January 15, 2015 (UTC)

(Reset indent) The Databank, which is basically ground zero for screen canon, says Separatist Alliance. "Separatist Alliance" is used way more than Confederacy of Independent Systems; the Confederacy name is never used in the films or on screen. It's just in a few text-based sources right now, plus one mobile game. The only reason this page was created at Confederacy of Independent Systems/Canon is because there was one use of it in the Encyclopedia, and people jumped on using the same name from the EU. Policy is pretty clear to put it at Separatist Alliance. If it ever comes out that the full, official name is Confederacy, it can be moved again. - Brandon Rhea(talk) 21:50, January 15, 2015 (UTC)

  • The "Confederacy of Independent Systems" is used onscreen in The Clone Wars. I can even name you at least one of the episodes it is used if you really want me to. As for the Databank, why don't we move Venator-class Star Destroyer to Republic Attack Cruiser? After all, they're never called Venators onscreen, and Republic Attack Cruiser is their Databank name. Of course I don't think we should do this, but the point is that the Databank is known to give simplified names for various things. Venator-class Star Destroyer is the full canon name of it, despite not appearing in the Databank. The same goes for Confederacy of Independent Systems. Cevan (talk) 21:54, January 15, 2015 (UTC)
    • Whether Confederacy was used on screen or not, "Separatist Alliance" is the name most often used and in virtually all instances. Without official confirmation as to what the official name is, we default to the most used one. If you disagree with that, feel free to propose a policy change. - Brandon Rhea(talk) 22:01, January 15, 2015 (UTC)
      • Very well, I may just end up doing that. Where exactly would I suggest the change? Is there a specific page for such a thing? Before I do, though, one last thing: If the current policy is to go by what's used the most, shouldn't a great deal of pages names be changed, like Venator-class Star Destroyer? Venator is not mentioned anywhere on screen. The same goes for all sorts of other things as well. Cevan (talk) 22:04, January 15, 2015 (UTC)
        • So by his logic, the Alliance to Restore the Republic would be the Rebel Alliance? - AV-6R7User talk:AV-6R7 22:06, January 15, 2015 (UTC)
        • (edit conflict) Regarding ships like the Venator, if other sources introduce a name other than what the Databank names something, and it's clear that what the other sources say is meant as the official name, we go with that official name. There's wiggle room to treat those things on a case by case basis (as it should be). Separatist Alliance is another animal entirely because of how extensively Separatist Alliance is used in canon, versus only a handful of sources saying Confederacy of Independent Systems. Because of the lack of clarity, we default to the naming policy that says to use the most extensively used one. As for where to propose a policy change, you'd do so in the consensus track. - Brandon Rhea(talk) 22:09, January 15, 2015 (UTC)
          • Thanks Brandon. Just wondering, do you have a specific link to the current naming policy where the more commonly used name is the one in the title? I'm currently looking at the naming policy page but haven't seen anything that looks like the one you've mentioned; I'll keep looking but if you have a direct link that'd be great. Cevan (talk) 22:16, January 15, 2015 (UTC)

Sure. Resetting indent to make the formatting easier. It's found in the naming policy here:

If a non-character subject is known by two or more names across multiple sources with no clear in-universe chronological naming precedence, use the name most commonly presented in sources (example: Golm instead of Bothawui Prime). Name proliferation may be trumped by a clear and/or consistent intention to rename a subject, in which case the name presented in the most recently published source takes precedence (example: TIE/sh VIP shuttle).

Long story short, it says that without official confirmation as to a subject's official name, you use the name that's used most often. The second sentence says that if sources start using a different name in an effort to rename something's official name, you go with the more recent ones (though that wouldn't apply here since, as you pointed out, Confederacy is used in the show, which continues the ambiguity as to which is the official name). - Brandon Rhea(talk) 22:20, January 15, 2015 (UTC)

  • The policy also says to use a subject's most formal title and that if multiple names are used, to go with the subject's name during the latest in-universe chronological date. I am unfamiliar with Canon sources, but I see that Lelal notes that both Tarkin and A New Dawn use Confederacy of Independent Systems with, I'm assuming, no mention of Separatist Alliance. Brandon notes that Separatist Alliance is used prominently (and apparently only) during the films and TCW. The Databank does use Separatist Alliance almost exclusively, but then again, it also uses "Rebel Alliance" almost exclusively. Yes, Separatist Alliance is used most commonly, but that clause of the naming policy only takes effect if there is no clear in-universe chronological precedence. It certainly seems to me that Confederacy of Independent Systems takes precedence as the title used during the latest chronological placement. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 22:41, January 15, 2015 (UTC)
    • T&R to the rescue. Should we move it? - AV-6R7User talk:AV-6R7 22:42, January 15, 2015 (UTC)
    • Good catch! In that case, I think we should move it back. Cevan (talk) 23:01, January 15, 2015 (UTC)
    • To be perfectly exact, "the Confederacy of Independent Systems" (or just "the Confederacy") is used 10 times in Tarkin, while "the Separatist Alliance" is used one time (by Vader, in dialogue). The collective formula "the Separatists" is used very frequently. In A new Dawn, "the Confederacy of Independent Systems" (or just "the Confederacy") is used 3 times, while "the Separatist Alliance" is not used at all. Similarly, "the Separatists" comes up very often. --Lelal Mekha Old Republic military symbol (Audience Room) 23:02, January 15, 2015 (UTC)
    • Personally I can recall two instances in which the Separatists are referred to as the Confederacy of Independent Systems in The Clone Wars, once by Senator Chuchi in Sphere of Influence and another time by Padmé in Heroes on Both Sides. In both instances, the term is used by Republic government officials to describe the Separatists in a more official context than the instances in which the more colloquial "Separatist Alliance" is used. In many ways, this seems similar to how in real-life we don't refer to countries by their official names as often as we refer to them by shortened designations and it makes sense that this would carry over to the Star Wars universe, explaining why characters in The Clone Wars identify the Separatists as the "Separatist Alliance" rather than the more long-winded "Confederacy of Independent Systems". While I would be in favour of moving the page to "Separatist Alliance" if the faction was never referred to as the Confederacy, the fact that the term is used in a more official context in both the show and novels like Tarkin, I believe that the "Confederacy of Independent Systems" should take precedence. --Cyrannian 23:16, January 15, 2015
      • Alright then, I've seen no objection to changing the name back to "Confederacy of Independent Systems." Should we go ahead and revert it? Cevan (talk) 21:55, January 18, 2015 (UTC)
        • There doesn't seem to be any further objection, so I say yes. Let's do it. Let's revert it. ProfessorTofty (talk) 19:39, January 21, 2015 (UTC)
          • In that case, I'll start changing things back. I'd greatly appreciate it if several people could assist in reverting everything, as it'll take a while on my own. Cevan (talk) 18:02, January 28, 2015 (UTC)
            • I actually think the Rebel Alliance page should be called that. I don't recall the name "Alliance to Restore the Republic" ever being used anywhere. --Marcuspearl (talk) 20:55, January 28, 2015 (UTC)
              • Alliance to Restore the Republic was used on the old SW encyclopedia which was canon. It was also used in Legends in Millennium Falcon (novel) I believe. But any discussion on changing its page name should be made on its respective talk page. Fe Nite (talk) 21:58, January 30, 2015 (UTC)

Redirecting Separatists to this page Edit

Being that the Confederacy is, in canon, referred to many times as the Separatists, I believe it should redirect to the canon article, as per the discussion found here. Reddyredcp (talk) 03:10, December 14, 2015 (UTC)

System List Box Edit

The section of the article titled "Astrography" contains what appears to be a boxed list of the systems comprising the "Confederacy of Independent Systems". Visible within the box are systems alphabetically arranged beginning with "Abafar" and continuing through "Kiros". The box contains a vertical scroll bar whose purpose appears to be to show the remaining systems listed within the box. However, the scroll does not appear to be working. Is this known and/or is there a fix waiting to be installed?

Massacre on Mustafar Rework Edit

The section for "Massacre on Mustafar" includes a tangentially related story that should probably just be removed. Another solution could be making a new section after "Massacre on Mustafar" about the droid shut-down signal.

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