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Dark Jedi was the improvement drive project for the week of 14 May, 2006.
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I think this with dark Jedis is a little bit dumb they are either Jedi or Sith. You don't call a Sith that have turned to the light a "Light Sith".

  • "Dark Jedi" is a canonical term in Star Wars. Also, not all Dark Jedi are Sith. The Sith is a specific Dark Side cult. Force-users who embrace the Dark Side do not necessarily belong to the Sith. Jaywin 14:15, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
    • All Sith are Dark Jedi (though the term can be a bit of a misnomer, as some Sith or Dark Jedi never had Jedi connections to begin with), but not all Dark Jedi are Sith. If a person wields the Dark Side of the Force, they're a Dark Jedi. To be a Sith, the person must perscribe to a specific set of teachings, like a religion/cult. A Dark Jedi can be greedy and hateful, drawing on the negative side of the Force, but they aren't nessecarily Evil. And if they become evil, they don't nessecarily do so following the Sith teachings. Likewise, not every good Force user is a Jedi, following the Jedi Code. In short, Jedi and Sith are specific philosophies regarding using the Force, likely the most refined, but they aren't the only philosophies available to Force Sensitives. Neither Code, Jedi or Sith, is perfect. Jedi fall to the Dark Side and Sith are capable of redemption and turning to the Light Side.

Did Mara Jade every actually become a full Dark Jedi? I didn't get that impression from reading the Thrawn trilogy. JimRaynor55 20:04, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

  • if she was a Jedi that left the Jedi Order after falling to the Dark Side, then yes. --Imperialles 20:06, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
    • But she wasn't; she was trained as a child by Palpatine.Kuralyov 15:11, 15 Jul 2005 (UTC)
      • And she wasn't truly dark, either; Palpatine, as an experiment, kept her from being a full Darksider (as seen in the beginning of Mara Jade: By The Emperor's Hand). jSarek 23:53, 15 Jul 2005 (UTC)
        • At least one of the books even highlights that it is surprising that Jade never touched the dark side, so Mara Jade should NOT be listed as ever being one since that directly contradicts canon. 212.85.87.77 01:50, July 5, 2013 (UTC)

I think this list is for Dark Jedi only, contrasted to those who were SITH Dark Jedi like Vader. If so, Vendress should not be here, becase she claims to be a sith. 62.74.5.101 13:12, 15 Jul 2005 (UTC)

  • But Dooku proved her wrong. – Aidje talk 14:39, 15 Jul 2005 (UTC)

RoTJ?Edit

were the tallish men dressed entirely in black on the Death Star II following Palpy Dark Jedi? If not, what were they, watching it now and wondering this. Unsigned comment by 207.5.197.180 (talk • contribs).

Dark Jedi vs. Sith? Edit

What's the difference between a dark Jedi and a Sith? What are examples of one versus the other?

  • While Dark Jedi were Jedi who fell to the Dark Side, Sith were those who followed the teachings of the Sith order. Joruus C'baoth was a Dark Jedi, Darth Maul was Sith, Dooku was both. — Silly Dan
    • So does that mean that Darth Vader was also both? i've read something in the article page of this article implying that he was. come to think of it, i see something else that does above- i just noticed that. Gringo300 03:45, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
      • Dooku saw that Anakin Skywalker was already half-Sith on the Invisible Hand. Given that Ani was not yet Sith Lord Darth Vader by then, it looks justify to say that Ani/Vader is also a Dark Jedi. Darth Kevinmhk 03:58, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
        • Alright, a Dark Jedi doesnt mean he / she is a Sith. But when a Jedi become a Sith, does he/she by definition become a Dark Jedi as well? Darth Kevinmhk 10:35, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
          • Sith and Dark Jedi are not mutually exclusive groups. All Jedi/Padawans who fell to the dark side are Dark Jedi whether or not they joined the Sith. The Sith are, afterall, just an ancient sect of Dark Jedi. Therefore, every fallen Jedi from Revan to Count Dooku should be considered Dark even if they later joined the Sith Jedi...--Sentry 03:16, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
            • I disagree. The first group of Sith Lords were Dark Jedi, but after that many Sith are just Sith, never a Jedi. I don't think those should be considered as Dark Jedi. Like Palpatine, he is just a Sith, never a Dark Jedi, because he has nothing to do with Jedi. Darth Kevinmhk 03:41, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
              • I never said all Sith were Dark Jedi. Only Sith that have been trained by the Jedi and converted are Dark Jedi. I was simply trying to clarify the fact that Dark Jedi can also be Sith and vice versa. Not all Sith (or dark side adepts for that matter) are Dark Jedi nor are all Dark Jedi Sith. --Sentry 03:54, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Dooku Edit

Why is Dooku here? According to LOE, he was already recruited into the Sith before he even left the Jedi. Although granted the whole Dooku/Maul/Sifo-Dyas/Clone army timeline seems really difficult to work out. Kuralyov 04:23, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

  • Dooku secretly studied the Sith Holocron in the Jedi Temple when he was very young. Darth Kevinmhk 04:25, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
    • I review the Dooku article once more, and admit Dooku is a debatable case. I am open to suggestions. Darth Kevinmhk 04:26, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
    • Dooku was never a dark Jedi. He went directly to being Sith. Many Jedi studied Sith holocrons; saying that he was secretly a dark Jedi for decades before the left the order is ridiculous. Likewise, LOE flat-out states that he joined the Sith just before he left the Order. Kuralyov 04:12, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
      • "Many Jedi studied Sith holocrons" -- May you quote names & source? What business did Dooku have with Sith Holocron if not for studying their teaching? Quote ep3 novel: "This was the real power of the dark side, the power he had suspected even as a boy, had sought through his long life until Darth Sidious had shown him that it had been his all along." For Dooku's whole life, he was always studying the dark side and seeking dark side mastery. Darth Kevinmhk 05:11, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
        • Can it be said that to be a Sith you must be a Dark Side user, therefore if one is a Jedi and becomes a Sith, they are both a Sith AND Dark Jedi? - Stinkywookie

Revan, Malak, Kreia & SionEdit

  • Let's discuss whether the above four are Dark Jedi... I am really open to suggestions this time. I cannot reach a solid conclusion after reviewing their articles. Darth Kevinmhk 04:32, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
    • They are Sith. - TopAce 16:18, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
      • I know, but before they officially declare themselves as Sith, did they already fell and became DJ ? Darth Kevinmhk 16:20, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
        • All the Sith have to somehow prove themselves worthy of being a Sith apprentice. Even Malak, Palpatine, or Maul had to do that. Self-proclaimed Sith Lords such as Revan also have to start simply as Dark Jedi instead of directly becoming a Sith Lord. I think those who eventually became Sith Lords should not be in the article. - TopAce 16:24, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
          • My opinion is Palpatine is not a Dark Jedi, because he never was a Jedi to begin with. Dooku indeed started his dark journey at an quite early age, accessing Temple Sith Holocron to begin his fall, so i think even though Dooku became a Sith, he deserve the DJ title. Anakin constantly call upon anger & other dark side feelings (proved by Labyrinth of Evil) to boost his power throughout the whole Clone Wars, and Dooku noted that Ani was a half-Sith, so I guess more or less Ani was a DJ too. A DJ more or less is related to a Jedi. Back at Revan Malak Kreia Sion, I cannot quite decide because their fall were pretty much keep in secret - they vanish, and they come back as Sith. Darth Kevinmhk 16:31, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
            • Ok, Palpatine was not the best example, but I still think that those who ever achieved the title of Sith Lord should not be on the list. - TopAce 16:33, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
              • Umm.. maybe open a new section which only mention DJ who eventually become a Sith? Darth Kevinmhk 16:37, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
                • That is good. At least it makes a distinction - TopAce 16:39, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Revan, Malak, Kreia & Sion were never Dark Jedi. Revan and Malak became Sith by studying the Trayus Academy and defeating the Sith Lords they found on Korriban. Kreia was a Sith acolyte and Sion was a Sith apprentice. Kuralyov 04:10, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
  • I disagree. Revan & Malak were shown in the Star Map cave stating the Jedi council would never forgive them, and the whole KotOR mess indicates Revan specifically searched for the Star Forge for the purpose of using its power for his own ends. Besides, since he was trained by Kreia at the end, I think it safe to say he was a Dark Jedi. Plus, he was more or less exiled when he went to fight the mandalorians.

Kreia was a Jedi to begin with, and then she left them to search out dark side teachings, long before she joined the Sith. Sion was a Sith though, that I agree with.

Sith-only and Dark Jedi techniques Edit

As we have probably all noticed, in almost every LucasArts game, as a Dark Jedi, we can use all kinds of dark powers, some which are G-canonically restricted to the Sith, such as Force lightning. I am thinking of making a new paragraph about Dark Jedi techniques in comparison with Sith ones. Considering the Jedi Knight series and both Knights of the Old Republic fully canon, what can be said is that there is no difference between Sith and Dark Jedi techniques. Any suggestions? - TopAce 16:29, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

  • The Ultimate Visual Guide further confuse the stuff. According to the Guide, Dooku & Sidious used Sith lightning. And Sidious learn this skill from ancient Sith ghosts that he summoned!!!! So the guide seems to imply that Sith lightning and Force lightning are 2 different things. Darth Kevinmhk 16:33, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
    • Confusing, do you think it should be mentioned in the article? - TopAce 16:34, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
      • Maybe discuss on Force lightning's talk page first. If we can reach a conclusion for this typical example, i guess we can settle everything else. Darth Kevinmhk 16:36, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Seriously? Lightning is restricted to Sith?! I can understand that you need training from someone else, but just how is it explained that you can't cast Lightning without belonging to the Sith order?
    • Maybe there are various types of lightning....but they all look relatively the same. --Sauron18 13:22, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
      • Ultimate Visual Guide was, as far as I know, the only source which really try to suggest Sith lightning is something different from Force lightning... Darth Kevinmhk 15:42, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
        • On which page is it? Of the Guide. --Sauron18 15:58, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
          • Sorry, Guide not with me at the moment. One page it has Dooku's lightning display from Jedi: Count Dooku issue, which the Guide states as Sith lightning. Another page it has Palpatine from Visionaries's Sithisis (sp?), the Guide stating Palpy calls upon ancient Sith spirits in order to learn Sith lightning, and it states Palpy created disturbance of the Force from the RehabCenter which rebuilt Vader. Darth Kevinmhk 16:06, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Quinlan Vos Edit

  • how about Vos? He acted like crazy when lost his memory, and even applied Force lightning. He often call upon anger and strike in cold blood. Hot temper, forbidden relationship, etc (much like Ani) But of course he was ultimately redeemed when fighting Sora. Darth Kevinmhk 17:49, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Notable sectionsEdit

Does anyone else think that the two notable sections are not necessary in this article? Those lists could easily grow immensely long, yet, as far as navigation goes, they aren't terribly useful. I mean, what is the criteria for choosing which characters are notable in this particular circumstance? Perhaps just a few names should be mentioned within the article as examples of what is and is not a Dark Jedi...--Sentry 04:17, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

  • That's a good point, in my opinion. I think it would be better to incorporate all of those names into a narrated historical section, perhaps further subdivided into the different eras. In other words, perhaps something like a section entitled History of Dark Jedi, with subsections like Dark Jedi in the Old Republic Era, Dark Jedi in the Rise of the Empire Era, and so forth. Comments? Jaywin 04:09, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
    • Thats an idea. The only problem is that the Dark Jedi are such a scattered and divided bunch that such a history would likely be quite chaotic, but then again, it might be the best solution...--Sentry 05:43, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
      • First, Dark Jedi did not have that many member... I guess just like Order 66 confirmed survivors & victims, we dont have much difficulty to list them all out. Second for history, as noted in the article already, Dark Jedi mostly went as indiviuals instead of an organisation. I suggest we split sections and write short intro and link those sections to main articles like Dark Side Elite, Xendor's Cult etc. Darth Kevinmhk 06:48, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
        • I think the new (official) definition of who is a Dark Jedi just emphasizes my point. The notable sections must go. Every dark side user could be on that list and how could we differentiate who is notable? It seems like a needless breeding ground for edit wars. On the point of writing a history... That now becomes an even more tricky issue. It would have to cover the history of every dark jedi from the Legions of Lettow to the Legacy Era Sith. I guess we could simply summarize much of it and add links to the main articles, but still its a lot to cover in one article... -Sentry 22:00, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
          • Several way can settle it. For example we can first build a list containing those who has relationship to Jedi but fall to the dark side and not a Sith; then we can build a second list and just link it to List of Sith Lords article; after that a third list link to Dark Side Elite, List of Dark Side Prophet etc. Second way is we create a whole new article to list out every dark side user, and link it to this article. Third way is we remove the term "Notable" from the section. Darth Kevinmhk 02:37, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Definition of Dark JediEdit

  • I disagree with the opening definition of Dark Jedi. It seems to me that it is a necessary condition that an individual has to have been previously a Jedi or in the process of being trained as a Jedi in order to be a Dark Jedi. The Jedi are a specific Force organization amongst many Force organizations in the Star Wars universe, with a tradition that was established on Tython by the followers of Ashla after the end of the Force Wars. The Sith are a specific force organization with their own Dark Side traditions. The Aing-Tii Monks are a specific force organization that doesn't believe in a Light Side or a Dark Side but instead see the Force more like a rainbow. And so on...Thus, I would say that the definition of a Dark Jedi would simply be "a Jedi or someone who was in the process of being trained in the Jedi tradition who fell to the Dark Side of the Force"...nothing more, nothing less. Jaywin 02:04, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
    • Yup, just as I argued above. The more open interpretation (dark side user = Dark Jedi), seems to be a remnant of poor word usage in numerous sources. I think the reason why relatively few people are working on this 'Improvement Drive' article is just this issue. Too many people are not sure what the authoratative definition of a 'Dark Jedi' is. As such, before going forward, I think we had best work out what the that definition should be. I would suggest that people paste different versions of the article intro here on the talk page, then we can have a meaningful discussion on the topic...--Sentry 05:43, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
      • As i always propose, Dark Jedi should relate to Jedi - either he/she was a former Jedi Padawan/Knight/Master, or he/she was trained by another Dark Jedi/Sith. If Dark Jedi = Dark side users, then those Prophets, Nightsisters, Kar Vastor & his elites would all be Dark Jedi, and I am pretty sure that they are not Dark Jedi. Further more, under my proposal Palpatine is a Sith and not a Dark Jedi, because he has no relationship with Jedi. Darth Kevinmhk 06:44, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
  • The definition of Dark Jedi, as given by Leland Chee here: "A dark Jedi is anyone who practices the dark side of the Force whether or not they were a former Jedi." jSarek 07:52, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
    • Bingo! Thats what we needed ;)--Sentry 09:30, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
    • I went to the link where you say that Leland Chee defined Dark Jedi, but I didn't see it. Was it on the first page? Also, with that definition, Darth Sidious and Darth Maul would be Dark Jedi, and that doesn't seem quite right. Jaywin 13:03, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
      • But this is too wide, isnt it? Then even Queen Amanoa, King Ommin, every Nightsisters and every Sith become a Dark Jedi - which doesnt feel right at all. Darth Kevinmhk 15:27, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
        • Leland Chee goes by the alias 'Tasty Taste'... And he is most definitely an official source. So, I'm afraid he must be correct.--Sentry 21:52, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
        • Well, here's some info about Leland Chee:
occupation/company: Database Content Administrator, Lucas Licensing biography: Keeper of the Holocron (Lucas Licensing). Former LucasArts tester.
The Holocron: an internal database maintained by Lucas Licensing that tracks all the fictional elements created for the Star Wars universe. The database includes material from the films, books, comics, videogames, trading cards, roleplaying games, websites, toys, cartoons, and just about every officially sanctioned fictional element of the Star Wars universe.
Chee's definition of a Dark Jedi: A dark Jedi is anyone who practices the dark side of the Force whether or not they were a former Jedi. There are various definitions of Sith throughout the ages. The Dark Lords of the Sith mentioned in the films follow the "rule of two." They are set apart from dark Jedi by sacred teachings that the Master teaches to the apprentice that are not revealed to anyone else. So far, the Sith Lords that we know of this era have all been chosen by a living Sith Lord, starting with Darth Bane and ending with Darth Vader. All the Sith of this era use the Darth title.
Yep, he's an expert! I guess his definition of a Dark Jedi blows my conceptions of a Dark Jedi right out of the water! Jaywin 23:52, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Pictures at the galleryEdit

  • There's some pictures a the Gallery of Dark Jedi that could be used on this page, though I wouldn't agree that they're all Dark Jedi. Jaywin 02:12, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Anakin Skywalker Edit

  • Well, in EP3 Novel, Dooku said Ani was already half-Sith without knowing it; in Labyrinth of Evil, Ani told the reader that he actively and constantly call upon his suffering and other history & emotion to boost his power; in EP2 & EP3, he slaughter diferent beings in cold blood... Ani didnt start the dark path when Palpatine grant him Sith rank - he began his Dark Path long ago! Darth Kevinmhk 02:33, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
    • I'm not quite sure what your point is here, nor do I understand the relevance of your statement to this article. Are you suggesting that Anakin was a Dark Jedi? Are you suggesting that the Sith are Dark Jedi? Are you trying to give a counter- example to the definition of a Dark Jedi that I proposed above? Am I missing your point completely? If you could clarify a bit, that would be great. Thanks. Jaywin 03:58, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
      • I am suggesting Anakin Skywalker is both a Dark Jedi and a Sith, Anakin Skywalker's fall to the dark side did not begin in pledging himself to Palpatine after Mace's death, his fall to the dark side began long ago "He was half Sith already, and he didn't even know it. This boy had the gift of fury."; so as Dooku, who studied Sith holocron before contacted by Sidious. And yes, to the definition of Dark Jedi, I propose Dark Jedi must have something relate to the Jedi in the first place: either he/she was for some time a Jedi, or he/she was trained by a Dark Jedi in Dark Jedi way or by a Sith in Dark Jedi way. Otherwise, if Dark Jedi was merely guys who follow the dark side, then even Nightsisters and Queen Amanoa are Dark Jedi, but they are not. For example Palpatine, he is just a Sith only, not a Dark Jedi, because he has nothing relate to the Jedi. Darth Kevinmhk 05:03, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
    • OK, thanks for clearing that up. I guess I would say that in my mind, I wouldn't call Anakin a Dark Jedi. When I think of a Dark Jedi, I think of a Jedi who fell to the Dark Side without belonging to any other dark side organization to identify with. In other words, if Anakin fell to the Dark Side and fully embraced it for a period of time before he became a Sith, then I would say he was a Dark Jedi for awhile. Anakin "slipped" many times before his final fall, but he didn't reject the Jedi tradition and fully embrace the Dark Side...a part of him still recognized that he was acting improperly. He didn't fully embrace the dark side until he joined the Sith. Either way, it's a tricky issue. I think the key word that I used was identity, which in and of itself is a rather murky philosophical issue in general. Jaywin 13:14, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
      • I disagree with "without belonging to any other organization", as we are pretty sure that Dark Jedi occasionally team up as organization like Dark Side Elite, Disciple of Ragnos, etc. For Anakin, well, personally i dont think Anakin has ever truly accept or understand Jedi tradition/teachings. Ep3 novel, in Obi-Wan's words: "Despite all I have tried to teach him about the sacrifices that are the heart of being a Jedi he - he will never, I think, truly understand. ...Any Jedi, except Anakin. I think that abstractions like peace don't mean much to him..." In Palpatine vs Ani in Opera house: "Or so you've been trained to believe. I hear the voice of Obi-Wan Kenobi in your answers, Anakin. What do you really think?" Anakin suddenly found the ballet a great deal more interesting than Palpatine's face. So in my opinion, Anakin never truly understand or embrace the Jedi teachings / way in the first place. Darth Kevinmhk 15:26, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
      • Those are some good points. However, I think the issue comes back to the concept of identity. Were those Dark Jedi who "teamed up" with certain Dark Side organizations actually members of, (i.e., identify with), those organizations, or were these just temporary alliances with common interests? With Anakin, he identified himself, (and others did as well), as a Jedi, even if he did have problems with certain aspects of the Jedi, (and for that matter, other Jedi considered him somewhat of a problem case, as well!) Perhaps something that would help with this issue on this page would be [1]. I guess I would see Dark Jedi as Dark Side practitioners who were trained as Jedi and who are not identified as members of a particular formal institution during any specified period of time...former Jedi / Dark Side practitioners without an official home, so to speak! No doubt about it, though, this is a rather tricky issue! Jaywin 16:13, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Sigh, I dare say that with the Holocron Admin's definition, we dont have to argue anymore: Maul, Dooku, Anakin, Palpatine are all Dark Jedi now..... I dont like this definition, but looks like we have no choice by accept. Nice discusion, anyway. Darth Kevinmhk 05:13, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
    • I share your sentiments on this definition, and it was a nice discussion. However, it looks to me like Chee's definition may not include the Sith, if you look at his definition in the above section, "Definition of Dark Jedi." Chee states:"[The Sith] are set apart from dark Jedi by sacred teachings that the Master teaches to the apprentice that are not revealed to anyone else." Either way, I think Chee really needs to re-assess his definition. Calling a Baran Do that embraces the Dark Side a Dark Jedi is like calling a Muslim that rejects Islam a fallen Christian. Quite frankly, (and ironically), I think Chee's definition demonstrates a poor reflection of the EU. Jaywin 13:18, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
      • I check that forum one more time... Yup, Chee in a way explained the difference between DJ & Sith. But note that Chee did not clarify "whether a Jedi became a Sith could be considered as a Dark Jedi as well". Anyway, I too dislike the definition set by Chee and the Holocron, but like I always say, unless a newer canonical source contradict / retcon this one, we have no choice but accept the definition for now. After all Chee is the Boss of Holocron! Darth Kevinmhk 02:47, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
      • "[W]hether a Jedi became a Sith could be considered as a Dark Jedi as well" is a good and very relevant question. It's one of many relevant questions that arise from Chee's definition. I think he really opened up a can of worms with his definition. For example, like the comment I made before about if a member of Baran Do fell to the Dark side...how could he or she be a Dark Jedi when the Baran Do isn't a Jedi organization? Or another thought that I had: what if a member of the Order of Dai Bendu fell to the Dark Side? How could they have been called a Dark Jedi when the Jedi didn't even exist yet?! Another thing worth noting from Chee's definition is that Chee implies that the Sith are "set apart from Dark Jedi" because of a specific set of teachings that no non-Sith uses. So why can't other Force-users who fall to the Dark Side be distinguished from the Dark Jedi if they have a different set of teachings that non-members of their group don't use? His definition seems self-contradictory to me.
Furthermore, is Chee's definition actually written down officially in the Holocron, or is it just his interpretation of the material in the Holocron? If the latter part is the case, did he actually think this through, or did he just give some answer off the cuff?
Is there any way we can get Chee to clear up these issues, (including the one you brought up about whether former Jedi-turned Sith are Dark Jedi)? I think they're pretty important, and I'm sure we won't be the last ones to bring up these kinds of questions! Jaywin 03:49, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Well, I dont know how exactly the Holocrons work, how the rules and facts are defined and stored. I guess the only thing we could do is inquiring Chee and ask him to clarify the different topics/possibly clearly... Darth Kevinmhk 13:29, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

History of Dark Jedi Edit

  • As we have a section above to discuss the Definition & Notable Section of the article, I open a new section to discuss the History section. So, in response to the official defintion of Dark Jedi in the Lucas Holocron, it seems that we have to cover the activity of Dark Jedi in all eras, from the First + Second Schism, The birth & golden age of Sith Empire, the Great Hyperspace War & Empire's fall, Rise of Freedon Nadd & Wars on Onderon, Naddist Uprising + Great Sith War, Jedi Civil War + Sith Civil War, New Sith Empire + New Sith War, Rule of Two & Order of the Sith Lords, Clone Wars + Revenge of the Sith, Galactic Civil War, Yuuzhan Vong War, and finally Legacy Sith. Why, this almost equals to writing the whole galactic history! Any idea how to handle this? (By the way I think a clean up is very needed for the article edit at 21:42, 18 May 2006) Darth Kevinmhk 03:04, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
    • I helped on the recent reworking of the Sith article. In that article, we had many of the same problems and I think we could do something similar here: Provide a generalized philosophy section, a timeline of relevant events, and a list of Dark Jedi organizations that link to their own articles. In that way, we would not have to write out a lot of history that is more fully written elsewhere.--Sentry 03:47, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Dark Jedi ConflictEdit

These two articles, Genarius & Kibh Jeen, speak of a Dark Jedi Conflict 188 BBY. Thought it might be of interest for this article. Jaywin 03:16, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

The Seven Dark JediEdit

I added some information about Jerec and his Seven Dark Jedi, placing it under the "Post-Palpatine era" section. I kept it very brief on purpose--all the information is covered elsewhere--but anyone is welcome to edit it. BaronGrackle 12:01, 26 May 2006 (UTC)


This is a test edit. Please don't delete for twenty minutes or so --85.195.123.29 19:32, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

What's the deal with the Sith and Dark Jedi in Knights of the Old Republic? Why do the Sith wear armor and have guns and swords? Don't they have lightsabers? Why do only dark jedi in the game have lightsabers?

  • The Sith you are referring to are Sith troopers. Military soldiers, most likely not Force-Sensitive. Although, i can't quite recall if there were any lighsaber wielding enemies with Sith in their names as well.DarthMRN

Welk and Lomi Polo Edit

You forgot some dark jedi.Actually only two I can think of.Welk and Lomi Polo. Two survivors of "The Crash" who later became "joiners" of a Killik nest called Gorog, or The Dark Nest, that work as an unconscience mind for the Killik's (shared) collective mined. -another huge fan,


-for more infomation, read the Dark Nest series

What?Edit

"This article is about the comic. You may be looking for Dark Jedi (comic)." Something's wrong here.Wedgeroks! 18:05, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

appearencesEdit

Has anyone ever notice that there hasnt been a single appearence of a Dark Jedi throughout the entire Star Wars Movies? Beside the fact that there where a couple of jedi using the Dark side when angry (Anakin and Luke) there hasnt been an appearence of one in the movies. Hobo 00:31, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

==============================================================Edit

While Jedi were capable of falling to the dark side, it was also possible for a Dark Jedi to be brought back to the light. Notable examples of redeemed Dark Jedi through history, include: Juhani, Atris, Quinlan Vos, Yun, Luke Skywalker, Kyle Katarn and Kam Solusar.

==============================================================Edit

WOW, forgeting someone are we not? --sumputz

Revan and Malak Edit

Shouldn't we list Revan and Malak as Dark Jedi here? The Essential Guide to the Force says that they are, so that's good enough for me.--Zhran 02:43, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Anakin Skywalker, Rnd. 2 Edit

Why is he on the list? He was never a Dark Jedi. He used the dark side often during the Clone Wars, but he never went dark. Once he was proclaimed "Darth Vader" by Darth Sidious, that made him a Sith. Unless, you know, you are counting the full five or so minutes after he cut off Mace Windu's sword arm, allowing Sidious to kill him, as his time as a "Dark Jedi".--Zhran 05:39, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

  • See the definition in behind the scenes. A Dark Jedi is not just any Jedi who fell to the Dark Side (which Anakin certainly is) but also any dark sider in general. My guess is the definition originally referred to former Jedi but that it evolved, due to non-Jedi misconceptions of Jedi = Force-sensitive into the current definition. Of course, that's just speculation but in any case, Anakin is a Dark Jedi. Niirfa-sa 22:05, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
    • "A dark Jedi is anyone who practices the dark side of the Force whether or not they were a former Jedi. There are various definitions of Sith throughout the ages. The Dark Lords of the Sith mentioned in the films follow the "rule of two." They are set apart from dark Jedi by sacred teachings that the Master teaches to the apprentice that are not revealed to anyone else. So far, the Sith Lords that we know of this era have all been chosen by a living Sith Lord, starting with Darth Bane and ending with Darth Vader. All the Sith of this era use the Darth title. " -Leland Chee

I personally interpret this to mean Anakin shouldn't be on the list. Purpilia 19:00, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Tahiri Veila? Edit

Should Tahiri Veila be on this list? In Revelation I believe she became Jacen's sith apprentice, not a dark Jedi. Darth Greig 13:10, 15 February 2008.

  • I think she was a dark jedi from inferno until revelation just waiting to be Caedus's apprentice does anybody disagree? Steves490 04:13, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Redeemed Dark Jedi Edit

Wouldn't Revan qualify considering he turned back to the light? Sure, Kreia says it wasn't his choice but that's an opinion. Vandar himself refers to the return to the light as a redemption. He'd certainly qualify as a *notable* example since he was the Dark Lord. --Niirfa-sa 22:10, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Galen Marek? Edit

if Galen Marek was a Dark Jedi, why was he secret? vader had other dark Jedi he taught: Lumiya and Flint for example, officially he must have been a Sith Apprentice as he was kept a secret from Sideous and he was taught in the ways of the Sith. As ive said, if he was a dark jedi vader wouldnt have kept him a secret. So should his name be removed~? Alex1991 17:27, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

  • I finished my "Force Unleashed extravaganza" a while ago, so I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that somewhere (the graphic novel maybe?) it's mentioned that Palpatine was, in fact, aware of Galen the whole time. Or at least part of the time (after his "death" anyway). In any case, he can't be counted as a Sith for the exact same reasons Lumiya and Ventress weren't. They were Dark Jedi with some knowledge of Sith techniques, not true apprentices, never mind the Rule of Two. Din's Fire 997 21:51, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Aurra Sing Edit

She's not a Dark Jedi any more than that one Mandalorian healer is. She's a bounty hunter who uses a Lightsaber.—B-Boba Fett! He'll kill us all! Jaster's Feather 17:03, September 13, 2009 (UTC)

  • Aurra had been the Padawan learner of Jedi Master An'ya Kuro (aka The Dark Woman). The Dark Side Sourcebook specifies her Force powers, including Telekinesis, See Force, Force push and Battlemind. Looks like Dark Jedi to me. --Skippy Farlstendoiro 06:39, September 14, 2009 (UTC)

Luke Skywalker Edit

Shouldnt Luke be added to the list of redeemed Dark Jedi? He would qualify considering the events of Dark Empire Right?

Secret apprentice NOT an example! Edit

First off, he was not really a dark-sider. He worked for dark-siders, but was not consumed by the dark side himself. His alignment is arguably Grey while he is working for Vader, as he is referred to as Darth Vader's Slave on multiple occasions, though he isn't a dark-sider.

He is an apprentice to a Sith, and the emperor would have let him become a formal Sith if he decided to be one, but he refused. He later became a Jedi Knight after going through the trials. He went from Sith Apprentice to Jedi Knight.

A Dark Jedi is a darksider who isn't sith. He was raised from childhood by a sith and learned sith techniques. So let's recap:

Not darkside, more grey as he was a slave

Sith affiliated ----> Jedi Knight

He does not fit the description of a dark jedi. But I assume that the person who put the image there has not read the book or played the game or anything.

Plus, that image is from promotional material, and not from an actual product, so it is likley non-canon.

Even if you still consider him a Dark Jedi after all of the above, you have to agree he is FAR from the best example. (- -) 05:49, April 22, 2010 (UTC)

RE: luke skywalker Edit

from what I've read on Luke, I think he should not be on the list. He was forced by Sidious to become part of the dark side, it was not his volition to turn to the dark side therefore, I think he should not be on the list.

UnitedSithArmy 12:46, April 22, 2010 (UTC)

Asajj Ventress' "Redemption" Edit

I think that the last time I looked at this page, beside Ventress' mention, it said "possibly redeemed by Obi-Wan Kenobi". (But now it is not there.) I agree with that (see the "possibly"). If my memory is correct, then should "possibly redeemed by Obi-Wan Kenobi" have not been deleted? Or maybe I am just imagining things and that note was never there...even though I'm positive that it was.WIERDGREENMAN 03:51, October 18, 2010 (UTC)

5.3 Factual correction Edit

I have a question about the accuracy of this.

Where is the first mentioned of this. Is it Timothy Zahn's Heir to the empire? PG 94 and 95 mention this from Leia and Han telling Luke the story about the Dark Jedi and the Bpfasshi, and possible tie in to Dagobah (which Luke has been wondering about, how the cave became a place of the dark side of the Force.)

This article mentions SW Episode IV as the First Appearance, but, that it is a retcon.

So, is the Heir to the Empire where this idea was first introduced? When, I read it, its a great idea to explain what luke experienced in the cave, but, it is a confusing and seemingly unneccsary concept, as I can see with the debates on the subject.

It would be nice to see more detail on the retcon and where it appears in SW IV and what the first mention is.

Did Zahn create this? or someone else?

Ahem, is ventress a good example? Edit

She isn't technically a Sith, but that doesn't mean she's a Dark Jedi. It's probably a bad example.

I would recommend that Jerec's image be at the start of the page. He is one of the few people EXPLICITLY introduced to us as a "Dark Jedi", whereas most other examples are "Sith Apprentices who aren't technically Sith, so we're dumping them in this list". The distinction between Sith and Dark Jedi should be clear to everyone reading the article.

Really, it seems like the Rule of Two wasn't taken very seriously, but Dark Jedi existed Before the Sith did. It's funny that there is disagreement over this term, because "Dark Jedi" is a self-contradictory term: True Jedi can resist the dark side (like Luke said to the Emperor in ROTJ), so a Jedi who falls to the dark side isn't a Jedi at all.(- -) 20:39, June 11, 2011 (UTC)

Assaj Ventress good example now... Edit

She WAS a huge mis-example before. Now, thanks to a TV show completely retconning her past, she is presently a good example.

You can thank this: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BroadStrokes (- -) 22:48, July 15, 2011 (UTC)

Should we add Pong Krell? He's declared his intention be Dooku's apprentice. Unsigned comment by 98.212.98.238 (talk • contribs).

= Tao Edit

Tao is currently on the redeemed list but shouldn't he be removed because he is a non-canon character?--Jedi Scioli 18:41, February 25, 2012 (UTC)

kazdan paratus Edit

how is kazdan paratus a dark jedi ? 74.170.72.55 21:10, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

Separate ArticleEdit

We have articles for every force sensitive order. Does anyone think maybe a second Dark Jedi article should be made specifically for the Dark Jedi from the Hundred Year Darkness that founded the Sith? Sith1 (Sith1) 12:39, November 20, 2013 (UTC)

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