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At the time there was only one Dark lord at a time, that bein Malak. Bane's rule of two had come into effect yet. Jasca Ducato 08:54, 28 Aug 2005 (UTC)
I think I may know what happened to Malak's jaw. On the Jedi Civil War page it says that Revan and Malak battled with Revan coming out on top...it's possible and plausible. RushinSundaws
Speculation that they even battled, so far as I know. Though I personally think it is the case, the game merely states Malak "grudgingly" assumed the role of apprentice. I take it as they battled and Malak lost, but it's not fact, I think. --Fade 17:27, 15 Nov 2005 (UTC)
Would it be appropiate to place all three of the Sith from the second KOTOR (Nihilus, Sion,and/or Traya) As the next Dark Lord in line? Being that they seemed to be in control of the Sith Empire at that time. Redemption
There was a discussion and we collectively decided that Traya, Nihilus and Sion were never actually "Dark Lords". QuentinGeorge 06:06, 20 Oct 2005 (UTC)
How did Malak suffer the injury which is implied by the Jawless Malak picture? - TopAce 19:17, 6 Nov 2005 (UTC)
It's not revealed in the game, but it's hinted that he was injured by Bastila when trying to convert her to the dark side. However, by the time of the injury he already had an artificial jaw. - Sikon [Talk] 06:40, 7 Nov 2005 (UTC)
Really? Where in the game is that hinted? Kuralyov 06:46, 7 Nov 2005 (UTC)
Well... I just thought it was quite obvious when Malak spoke about his new apprentice. Looks like it wasn't. - Sikon [Talk] 07:28, 7 Nov 2005 (UTC)
I think it's pretty obvious he had the wound throughout the game, and aquired it sometime between the end of the Mandalorian Wars (he has a whole jaw in the Dantooine vision) and returning as a Sith. My personal guess is that Revan gave it to him, after which Malak "grudgingly" assumed the role of apprentice. --Fade 23:05, 13 Nov 2005 (UTC)
How could a Jedi Sentinel injure a Sith Lord? - TopAce 15:32, 14 Nov 2005 (UTC)
Jedi Guardian/Sentinel/Consular are gameplay features. The parts where Dorak says "become a Jedi Guardian/Sentinel/Consular" are about as canon as when Trask says stuff like "use your security skill to unlock the door"... anyway, Malak wouldn't be able to instafreeze a Jedi sentinel (except, you know, when he does it to your character), so they'd stand a good chance ;)
Were they? I'm aware of what the biography on Malak says on the KotOR website, but I hold just about as much faith with that as I do with the KotOR Chronicles. Nothing in the game suggests that, if anything it makes it pretty clear that Revan and Malak were trained on Coruscant.
Zhar: When I was still on Coruscant, Revan and Malak often came to me for additional training.
Speaking of which, where does the information for Zhar being Malak's master come from? Revan and Malak went to him for *additional* training... doesn't screech "was Malak's Master" to me.
Actually - this entire article seems to be full of inaccuracies, it is strongly suggested during KotOR II that it was only upon arriving at Malachor V that Revan learnt about the Star Forge, which is what led him to hunt down the Star Maps - yet this article talks about them discovering the first Star Map before the Mandalorian Wars? Care to explain the Sith Robes Revan was wearing?
That said, it is possible that Revan's appearance in that dreamsequence was more of a representation of how your character perceived his past self as opposed to what he was actually wearing at the time...
With regards to discovering the first Star Map. The Trayus Academy on Malachor V has nothing to do with the Star Forge save how they are linked by Revan's fall to the darkside. The first Star Map was discovered before the Mandalorian War.
With regards to Zhar's quote, it actually goes "Revan often came to me for additional training" not Malak. (I think, they were talking about Revan, not Malak at the time}
With regards to where they were training, we are not told and as such do not know. Nowhere is it implied that they trained at Coruscant.
If you're all going to keep swapping those two images around perhaps there shold be some sort of vote on it Personally I prefer the 'artwork' one to the promo one. HavetStorm 23:16, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
I prefer the promo but then again, I'm the one who uploaded in the first place so I'm partially to blame. :P Redemption 23:12, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
I much prefer the artwork; it goes with the 'head and shoulders' lead in policy, and, because it's a piece of art, downright looks better than a graphical image which looks entirely boring, I feel. I'm not sure what Robtheanimewhatever means by repeatedly swapping Revan's, though. --Fade 23:48, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
The policy is promo images get priority. However, being that this is an official piece of artwork, its up for debate. Redemption 23:57, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
I uploaded the artwork originally but I didn't intend to have it as the main image. Someone else did it, maybe Jack Nebulax, not sure off hand. Anyway, I prefer it as the main image and it has been like that for a while now. --DannyBoy7783 01:59, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
Well, my image seems to be more of a "official" image since its background isn't distracting and focuses on the one character while giving a good view top to bottom. But it's up to you guys...Redemption 03:16, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
No offense Redemption, but your last comment is really just your opinion. Neither image is really much better than the other. I like the artwork because it is official and it has more flair. It makes the page a little more exciting. Also, it shows a close up of Malak which tends to be the general practice around here when possible.--DannyBoy7783 03:26, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
Well...isn't that the whole point of this discussion: which image is better? Isn't that all based on opinion? I think the current has more of an encyclopedia look. Just like you think the art one has more "flair". Redemption 03:56, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
But even after years of the corruption of the dark side, Malak was not entirely evil. Infact it is true, When you battle Malak and he uses a force power you'll see at the feedback tab at the stary menu that he's alignment was neutral eg: Cast force lightning(20 + 0 alignment modifier).
..err, i played the game, but i still dunno what you meant, maybe you can further explain your paragraph? Darth Kevinmhk 07:53, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
The problem is that you are using a very obscure and irrelevant game mechanic to justify your argument and, as such, you are advancing pure conjecture. Malak was the Dark Lord of the Sith. He is, therefore, virtually by definition an evil man...--Sentry 08:06, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
And the article has already addressed his (kinda) regret before he died. Darth Kevinmhk 08:22, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
I suggest you put back the mechanic facts into BTS as something interesting, but do not try to deduce that Malak is not evil with those facts. Darth Kevinmhk 08:48, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
Yes, put it in BTS, like it's done for Juhani (also neutral). - Sikon [Talk] 11:08, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
You know this game plays useing 3rd edition dungeons and dragons, well there a tab in the start menus where you see that. When Malak uses a force power like Lighninig, you see that it says: Malak use forcer Lightning(20+0 force alignment).
its one of the ingame menus, the messages one. On part of it has the recent dialogue messages, press 'x' and there is a feedback screen where it shows what you get from a reward, and the battle information, understand?
Did you know that you can become Darth Malak in a Twi'lek girl on the final battle?? It's very, very funny!!!! Only you need to insert another controller on the fourth port of your Xbox and press both triggers and the Y button at the same time before you open the door prior the battle with him!!!!!! (He will only change until you have finished the conversation). Axel Shan
Old news... have someone add it to behind the scenes.
On the PC version, this ending is activated by typing "dancedancemalak" in the cheat console before entering the Star Forge Viewing Platform. - Sikon [Talk] 10:20, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Zhar Lestin was the Master who trained Malak. Disciple tells you this in K2 if you get a certain amount of influence (but, apparently, it doesn't work with 100 influence). - Sikon [Talk] 11:13, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
That's interesting, though it does conflict with the information given in K1 - when Zhar says that "Revan and Malak often came to me for additional training". The "came to me", bit seems to imply that Malak wasn't *his* student, but someone elses. Whatever though, if Disciple says Zhar was his master, then Zhar was his master. (18.104.22.168 05:03, 8 June 2006 (UTC))
Personally I dont think it contradict that much. Zhar of course gave Malak standard training. For additional training, Malak can find other masters. And both Revan AND Malak chose Zhar for additional training, thus the "came". Darth Kevinmhk 05:59, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
If they "came" to him, it implies that they weren't his padawans, but rather someone else's. A master wouldn't say "he came to me often for additional training" of his own student... Whatever, it doesn't really matter though, there seems to be something of a tendency in this era for padawans to be taught be a number of different masters (though probably not as many as Revan went through). (Ulicus 12:42, 12 June 2006 (UTC))
I can only guess that 22.214.171.124 was trying to subtly hint at the Star Forge... It should probably be rewritten to be more explicit. Master Nikolce also added some fanon (in present tense, no less) into that section that should be removed.--Sentry 01:05, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
what was wrong with what i added, and besides, my edit was true, when you face malak, he preforms a force jump towards you if your far away. And he can fight with his right hand, he did use power attack, critical jit and flurry with his right hand and the left hand with force powers.
tell me whats wrong with it?
Malak was a Jedi guardian. It is shown, that when Revan is far, Malak will attack with force jump.
Malak, at the time was probably the most skilled lightsaber duelist, due to the fact he can fight entirely with his right arm. He could use power attak, flurry and critical strike all with one hand, the left hand used for force powers.
Master Nikolce 10:50, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
We dont have to be that specific: Yoda, Ani, Obi-Wan used Force Jump too... it is nothing that unique for Malak; Ani, Ben and Dooku all had occassion of using sword at right hand and Force at left, but it doesnt mean anything. The article should be treated like a bio of character in a fictional universe, not a "table of facts" of a character in computer games. Darth Kevinmhk 11:36, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
"It has been speculated that Malak was the red-armored Sith with a red lightsaber whom four Jedi Masters from the Covenant saw in their visions, which — after they mistook this Sith for a future version of one of their own Padawans — led them to commit the Padawan Massacres of Taris. It should be noted that Malak and Zayne Carrick, the only Padawan to survive the massacre, are sufficiently different in appearance and background to establish them as separate persona. "
―Sikon's entry into artile
Can someone provide a source? Jasca Ducato 10:12, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
Right. Ok. I *know* what the Databank entry says: 2 metres. But the more I play through KotOR I, the more and more this just doesn't jive with me - not unless every other character in the game is supposed to be a 5'5 midget.
Darth Vader is also listed at 2.02 metres, yet there are other characters in the saga that approach his height - and whilst Vader's taller than every other human, he rarely towers over them to the same extent that Malak does. Heads frequently come up to Vader's "mouth grill", whereas most humans in KotOR only get up to Malak's shoulders. Also, I seem to recall Lucas mentioning that PM as Chewbacca was now quite a short wookie (because of all the gigantic basketball players they could get), at 2.28 metres (though the databank does say that their average height is 2.10 metres) - yet Malak is as tall as every wookie character...
There's also the fact that Malak constructed a super-long lightsaber so as to take advantage of his height, whereas Vader's saber is the same length as the average Jedi - which implies (to me) that suited Vader was shorter than Malak.
So, basically, what I'm saying is - wouldn't make more sense to list Malak's height as being "over 2 metres" (well, "meters")? That works with both the "2.02" information and the way he is presented in the game itself. The Databank isn't exactly the most reliable source of information when it comes to the KotOR characters- having lifted a lot of its stuff from the terribly flawed Official KotOR website.
It's a similar problem I have with HK-47's height. That droid is in no way just under six foot- that would mean that if I was walking around the KotOR universe, I'd be almost a 3/4s of a head taller than every human I came across (except Malak).
I'm sure the majority of you won't agree with me, as the Databank is often considered to be one the "most canon" sources around - but there's no harm in me bringing it up.(Ulicus 13:12, 12 June 2006 (UTC))
You can't put words into Revan's mouth. That's just one option he has - Revan's in game dialog cannot be considered canon. (Ulicus 14:39, 12 June 2006 (UTC))
Is it allowed for a character page to open with a quote from that character? If so I'd suggest: "I wanted to be master of the Sith and ruler of the galaxy." - Malak. Pretty neatly sums him up. (Ulicus 14:52, 12 June 2006 (UTC))
Well, judging from Han Solo it is allowed. Added.(Ulicus 14:58, 12 June 2006 (UTC))
But the other quote is so much better. Time and again, we've decided that whatever would be the "lightest" option for Revan is near enough canon to assume happened (e.g. didn't aid the Genoharadan, redeemed Yuthura Ban) even though things can potentially go differently in the game. The quote we had up here also nicely characterizes Malak, as he more or less took his seat of power by riding Revan's coattails, and it perfectly illustrates the balance of his power-lust and eventual regret. -BaronGrackle 15:34, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
Well, we shouldn't be deciding that. The light side *ending* is canon, not every choice along the way - though certain ones are. For example we know that LSM Revan canonically redeemed Ajunta Pall because it says so in K2, we also know that he spared Juhani because the databank says she survived. We don't know that he turned Yuthura back to the light side and the Yuthura article indeed mentions this, referring to the biography given as simply "one choice", as opposed to the canon choice... I understand where you're coming from, but attributing quotes to Revan from the game itself should not be done - regardless of how good they are. Sorry. Besides, it's bad enough that they canonized anything -given that Revan's gender and alignment have no bearing on the eventual outcome - so this push to "canonize" as many different aspects of the game as possible is something I will strongly oppose. If Leeland Chee flat out states "that's what Revan says in the holocron", then put it in. Until then, no. (Ulicus 17:42, 12 June 2006 (UTC))
Oh, looks like its still there anyway. (Ulicus 17:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC))
Would you prefer the full quote?
"I wanted to be Master of the Sith and ruler of the Galaxy. But that destiny was not mine, Revan. It might have been yours, perhaps... but never mine."
That seems to convey what you felt was missing.(Ulicus 17:59, 12 June 2006 (UTC))
Oh look, the quote has appeared again. Things you can make the character say are not canon, unless there's only one choice. There are two choices of what Revan can say at this specific moment in time and there's no official word on which is canon, only that the LS ending (in which both choices appear) is canon.
It's not like quoting Revan on the Revan page in regards to loving Bastila - we know that he gets with Bastila canonically and (as far as I'm aware) "You aren't afraid to love anymore?" is the only choice he has at that specific moment.
So, please stop adding it until you give me proof of its canonicity. If you do that, I promise to eat my hat and shut-up forever and ever.(Ulicus 14:05, 13 June 2006 (UTC))
No need for hat-eating. I didn't change the quote back, and I actually DO like the full version you put up better. The whole "that destiny was never mine" part manages to do the trick, I think personally. -BaronGrackle 03:46, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Malak's most distinguishing feature, his steel jaw, disguises a vicious lightsaber wound inflicted by his former Master in their desperate final battle.
If this is the case, then when exactly did he lose his jaw to Revan?--Ranat 23 18:40, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
Uh oh. They didn't have a battle; Malak fired on his Master's flagship. It's noted in the game that Malak didn't dare confront Revan directly, until their later encounter - Kwenn 18:42, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
So the article is a mistake?--Ranat 23 18:50, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
Probably it was this battle that settled their hierarchy and made Malak afraid. HavetStorm 19:20, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
They probably duel it out to decide who will be the new Dark Lord (as Sith always do), and result in Revan slicing Malak's jaw. This is the best guess. Darth Kevinmhk 03:46, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Nah, too obvious. - Sikon [Talk] 04:30, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Interesting... At one point, the entry for Malak in the Databank (content now obsolete; backup link on Archive.org) stated that Malak lost his jaw fighting with a Jedi Master during the Jedi Civil War, but that info has been removed now. --Sentry [Talk] 05:13, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
This seems a lot easier than we think: maybe it was his Jedi master, Zhar. Maybe his old master confronted him at some point about being a Sith, and voila! removable jaw. Cutch 05:51, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Hahaha... if that's true... man, how embarrassing, losing your jaw to Zhar! "Dark Lord of the Sith? You're havvin' a larf!" I bet Revan wound him up about that.(Ulicus 12:17, 13 June 2006 (UTC))
Another plausible explanation is that Malak said something that Revan did not approve so Revan punished him 'as a warning'. Malak's betrayal was not only the Sith way, but also a revenge. MoffRebus 12:25, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm more inclined to think that it was Revan-inflicted, but there's no solid proof. I think the article was *intending* to refer to Revan causing the wound, but seemed to have got mixed up in its "final battle" terminology.(Ulicus 13:50, 13 June 2006 (UTC))
Is this article, perhaps, a bit too complimentary of Malak and his role in the Mandalorian Wars? Whilst the general consensus amongst the Republic has always seemed to be that it was the "Revan and Malak" pairing that saw them win the war, the Mandalorians themselves give next to no credit to Malak at all - it's always "Revan this" and "Revan that".
Likewise, when you can talk to Atris in KotOR - one of the options is:
"Revan. Won. The. War."
Not, "Revan and Malak won".
I'm just interested to see what you might think. It seems to me that though there *was* a lot of "they" and "their" in the Mandalorian Wars, it should be emphasised that "Revan was always the leader, the more powerful of the pair" and - in the end - the one primarily responsible for the victories. Revan was directing Malak after all, they weren't equals (Malak might have thought they were of course...)
In fact, the article attributes other things to "both" Malak and Revan, when it was in fact just Revan. For example, Zhar does mention that *both* Malak and Revan came for additional training, but that it was "Revan in particular" who had the insane lust for knowledge and that he should have considered *Revan's* love of knowledge to be a warning sign. Though it's true to say that they *both* "always sought to learn far quicker than their Masters felt was prudent" as Zhar says. (further evidence that he wasn't intended to be Malak's master in K1)
In regards to the breakaway, Zhar mentions that "many of the young Jedi admired Revan" and that that "Charismatic and powerful, it was inevitable many of the Order would flock to Revan's seemingly noble cause."
Malak's greater importance in the breakaway seems to have been retroactively applied after he became the Dark Lord of the Sith, rather than having been the case all along. Malak's not Revan's equal, he's just his best friend and the first guy to follow him.
I do like Malak you understand, I don't always think that he gets the credit he deserves, but in some of these instances it seems like he's getting credit for stuff that he shouldn't be... hmm. I dunno.(Ulicus 14:41, 13 June 2006 (UTC))
Well, the Mandos don't seem to ever mention anyone besides Revan. For example, Canderous doesn't mention Exile in K1 even though he and the MSG played a pivotal role in the Battle of Malachor V, although the OOU reason is obvious. I assume they believe that the leader is worthy of getting credit for the entire campaign. (The fact that Revan personally beheaded Mandalore may also have something to do with this, though, or maybe they just didn't know about Malak, Exile or the MSG...) Revan was clearly the mastermind, but Malak is worthy of some credit - if only for the events shown in Exile's vision. - Sikon [Talk] 15:16, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Oh yeah, definitely - I'm not saying that Malak was nothing, he quite clearly was an important part of the Mando campaign. I just wasn't getting the feeling that Revan was being acknowledged *as* the mastermind and it seemed as though... I don't know, that Malak was getting a little too *much* credit.
I still think that the "Early Life" section needs a bit of rewording, since it seems to have Revan and Malak down as equals, and that the pair were both just as power craving as each other - when at that point, Revan was *much* more into the whole "extra knowledge" thing than Malak - as Zhar says:
When I was still on Coruscant Revan and Malak often came to me for additional training. In particular, Revan's hunger to learn seemed insatiable. I should have recognized this as a warning sign.
It's also pretty clear that he's referring to *Revan's* attitude as being a warning sign, rather than the attitude of both Revan and Malak. We only know that Malak went to Zhar for additional training. We know that Revan went to Zhar, Kae, and Dorak and "other masters, on other planets" - so implying that he and Malak were in the same league in this regard is a little misleading.
they were known to ambitiously seek out other masters for additional training.
"They" weren't known. They both went to Zhar for additional training - that is all we know about "they". We know that Revan, individually, went to many other masters for additional training, but not Malak.
(Ulicus 15:22, 13 June 2006 (UTC))
Edited early life section to more closely resemble what details we are given of Malak's Jedi training. (Ulicus 16:21, 13 June 2006 (UTC))
Ya, I copied and pasted much of that information from the Jedi Civil War and Mandalorian Wars articles. In order to make it fit into this page, I lazily just replaced "Revan" with "Revan and Malak" in most cases. I have been meaning to clean it up, but I have been working on other things...--Sentry [Talk] 19:02, 13 June 2006 (UTC)