Talk:Darth Nihilus

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Article milestones Date Process Result 1 June 2007 Good article nomination Success 9 June 2007 Good article November 4, 2008 Good article review Removed November 23, 2008 Former good article 24 December 2008 Good article nomination Failure 23 May 2009 Failed good article nominee 23 July 2009 Featured article candidate Failure 27 September 2009 Failed featured article candidate
Current status: Failed featured article candidate

Contents 1 'Force Channeling Mask'? 2 Uncertainty concerning events on the ravager 3 Dreadlocks? 4 Data Problem 5 Probably Human 6 Gender 7 Apprentices 8 Consciousness Stored In Armor 9 Sith successor 10 Concept Art 11 Are you Serious? 12 Distortion 13 That thing about Nihilus having black dreadlocks should be erased. 14 Pic 15 Wrong Way Round 16 meaning of name 17 Darkside Energy 18 Re:distortion 19 Gap in Nihilus' Past 20 Confusing speculation

[edit] 'Force Channeling Mask'?

Is there more info on this?Tocneppil 21:58, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Uncertainty concerning events on the ravager

In the Jedi Vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force it is said that either Nihilus killed/was killed by Visas or was killed by Brianna. I don't understand why exactly this point is not clear. As far as I know the book is "In-Universe", but why would the real authors describe the event so vaguely? Nanook 00:01, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

• Remember that the passage of the book describing the encounter is written "in character" as if by another ficticious character, who does not know the exact details. The authors probably decided to keep these details vague, because they refer to how a single player plays a computer game and so the particulars may vary greatly. This is probably also why the authors mention Brianna, even though there is no possibility of her killing Nihilus, as the group confronting Nihilus is fixed as the exile, Visas and Mandalore in the game. Jediphile 10:06, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
• Also remember that canonically, Brianna can't even join the Exile due to the fact that she is canonically female, and the Disciple is the one who joins her. Linkstarwars 06:04, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Dreadlocks?

I was browsing the Rebelscum forums, and in the thread for the 'Sith Legacy' Evolutions pack, there are pictures showing that Nihilus' hood is removable, and he seems to have dreadlocks! http://threads.rebelscum.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=hasbro30th&Number=3081301&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=5 Sith Alchemy 101 15:29, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

• Dude, sweet! Presumed final words translated, "Exile mon! Rasta!" MarxismIsLove 00:23, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
• Haha, I always thought more along the lines of, "Exile mon! You straight wicked broda, one love mon. Respect." =P Linkstarwars 06:05, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Data Problem

We have a confict here. According to the article:

"Although his role in the wars is a mystery, it is very likely that he may have been among the faction of Jedi that defied the Jedi Council and followed Revan to war."

However, according to the side-bar he was affiliated with the Jedi, the Revanchists, etc.

Thoughts? Holokin 06:22, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

• "Jedi" and "The Revanchists" should be removed unless he's revealed to have been one. Grand Moff Tranner ^(Comlink) 11:16, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
• Thank God, somebody finally removed that! I removed those two organizations from the infobox quite a few times, and somebody kept putting them back up there.--Jedi Kasra 04:30, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Probably Human

I'm not sure if anyone else has commented on this before, but I've noticed that in one image - the one in which Nihilus is fighting Atris - that Nihilus has bare arms (Fig. 1). Since it's concept art it may not have a great influence on anything at all, as it may be considered non-canon, but nevertheless I think it shows that Nihilus may be a bit more Human than some people have been speculating (and I admit that I previously made a suggestion that he may be Sith). As the image only shows the underside of his hand clearly - which has the same pigmentation for all Humans regardless of ethnicity - it's difficult to come to any further conclusions on this. However, by looking at his nose in another picture (Fig.2); which has a clearly brown coloring, and taking into consideration the dreadlocks on the Hasbro toy, I'd say it's fairly likely that Nihilus either is - or was planned to be - a dark skinned Human. --Kessel 21:30, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

• • Very interesting about Fig 1...for Fig 2, I've always assumed that he had a black cloth covering his face. BTW, I've sourced the images. Drewton 22:08, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
    • Could someone post a pic here of the action figure with its hood removed. - –K.A.J^{•T•C•E•} 22:10, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
      • Link to Rebelscum.com Drewton 22:13, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
        • It seems like he's a Kiffar. It's just speculation, but his dreadlocks remind me of Quinlan Vos's dreadlocks. Grand Moff Tranner ^(Comlink) 23:30, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
          • We cannot deduce that he's a Kiffar because of his dreadlocks. First of all, if we knew his canon face we would see the yellow marking, but even that wouldn't be enough. Maybe some evident telemetric ability would help us more. Coming to think of it, that's all just speculation that do not belong to a Wook talk page. Nanook 00:08, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
            • Also, Jariah Syn has dreadlocks, though he's not Kiffar. Drewton 01:51, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
              • I know we can't just say he's a Kiffar. I was just making an observation. My phrasing was not the best. Grand Moff Tranner ^(Comlink) 02:27, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
                • I understand what you meant; I was just saying that having dreadlocks doesn't mean he was necessarily Kiffar. The darker skin in the first picture could be just the lighting. Drewton ^{(Drewton's Holocron)} 02:30, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I've reconsidered. I believe it unlikely that he's a Kiffar (or any other subrace to be frank), as so far Nihilus has shown no cultural links or any evidence of psychometry. Thus, designating him as such would only really detract from his character without adding anything worthwhile: for a start it would have to be explained why a) the designers had made him a Kiffar yet made little use of this obscure detail, and b) made use of a species which does not enter into Republic history for another 961 years.

Nihilus does not seem to be a Kiffu before his time (all the ones we have heard of are from the Rise of the Empire era). Thus, I can only assume that Nihilus is, like Sion and Kreia, "just a man - nothing more". --Kessel 10:25, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

At least this is the end of the Zayne/Nihilus fanshit. - –K.A.J^{•T•C•E•} 11:37, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

• Oops, didn't know that the Kiffar didn't appear in galactic society around 3,000 BBY. Grand Moff Tranner ^(Comlink) 14:05, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Also, does anyone know if "a man, nothing more" is confirmed to be canon, instead of "a thousand graveyard planets and an eternity of hate and hunger"? Drewton ^{(Drewton's Holocron)} 14:23, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Since the Exile is officially light side, we generally consider the light-side option to be canon. Edit: Really? Well, I must have assumed wrong. In which case, I have frankly no idea which is the canon quote. --Kessel 13:47, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

• I've played as a light-sider, and it's dependant on what you ask, not what side of the Force you are on. I've gotten both answers from Visas.--Jedi Kasra 00:39, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
• Again, this is like the silly argument that Revan was canonically a white bald guy because his action figure is a white bald man. It's just a figure, and they needed to make something to fill the quota, instead of just putting nothing there for a head. Hasbro makes a toy, and it may be canon? Guys... seriously? I suppose Darth Vader had a pink lightsaber and Malak had yellow on his armor? Information on the back of figure boxes is generally canon, but the figures themselves? Not necessarily so.--Jedi Kasra 00:39, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

The Hasbro toy is only supporting evidence, not the base for my argument. Nevertheless, I understand and agree with your point of view that it is not particularly strong evidence at all. Still, even with only the other evidence we have standing alone, I think we have a pretty strong case for his being human. --Kessel 11:12, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

• I disagree. They most likely made Revan bald and completely white-skinned so his true appearance wouldn't be established; there also isn't really any evidence against it. We don't know what Revan looked like as the Dark Lord (under the mask). In TSL, the Exile's skin turns white/grey on the dark side, and Darth Malak's skin was almost white. Vader having a pink lightsaber was a factory error and not intentional. Drewton ^{(Drewton's Holocron)} 20:50, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Personality and traits, second last line. Nihilus, however, was still Human enough to have feelings. It hasn't been proven that nihilus was human, so the line needs to be changed.Soresumakashi 10:41, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

The Campaign Guide describes his specy as "Human (Dark Side Aberration)", explaining that "As his useless body disintegrates, he becomes living primitive intention". Whatever the latter means, the first quote should be proving that he was human, right? Kadoudal 16:17, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Gender

Apparently Darth Nihilus is Female. --AnakinSkywalker101011 19:19, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

• Evidently not. -- I need a name (Complain here) 19:22, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Nudes of Nihilus or gtfo. MarxismIsLove 00:29, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
    • Nihilus is - at least physically - male, since Visas calls him a man, if the Exile asks her to take his mask. Jediphile 23:57, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Apprentices

Do you know there is a cut-content where the exile can became the new apprentice of Nihilus by killing Visas? It's going to be restored by Team Gizka,but,do you think Nihilus would later kill the exile? Tatesz 16:17, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

• This isn't a place for speculation - Kingpin13 16:25, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
• Please talk about speculation on TheForce.net; talk pages are for discussing changes to the article. And in the dialogue files, I remember the Exile only becoming Nihilus's apprentice so that she could trick him, so she wouldn't really be his apprentice anyway, even in cut content. Drewton ^{(Drewton's Holocron)} 16:26, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Consciousness Stored In Armor

Krayt asked Nihilus how he stored his consciousness in his armor, and later in the article it mentions that it's unknown where this armor was. I think it's fair to assume that Krayt is referring to the 'armor' Nihilus is wearing. Due to the way the question was worded, the fact that nothing's ever been mentioned about any armor, etc. Not sure personally, but I'm leaning towards pulling the last snippet of that section out. MarxismIsLove 00:34, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

• It's likely, but it's still speculation. Drewton ^{(Drewton's Holocron)} 01:38, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
• I would wonder about this considering in any ending of the confrontation with Nihilus, his body dissipates into the Force. Linkstarwars 06:11, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sith successor

It says that Nihilus was succeeded as Dark Lord by an unknown sith, but isn't that wrong? When the Exile goes to Malachor V after Nihilus' death, Darth Traya/Kreia is the new Dark Lord with Sion as her apprentice. Shouldn't Darth Traya be there as the next Dark Lord after Nihilus? Jediphile 00:05, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

• Kreia merely reclaimed her role as a Sith (which is actually debatable), so she wasn't actually a successor. Sion was also not her apprentice at that time. - Drewton ^{(Drewton's Holocron)} 01:16, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
• I think Kreia refers to Sion as her "apprentice" on Malachor during a cutscene with Mira. Anyway the Exile during her confrontation with Sion makes him realize that was merely another test, for her, not him. Sion wanted the Exile gone, however, so that Kreia would have no choice but to take him back as her apprentice. Also I believe cut content on Dantooine shows Kreia calling herself one of the Sith, yet on Telos as she speaks to Atris she says that even though she is Sith, that is but a title, and not really what she believes. That fits with her claim of holding both of what Jedi and Sith actually are: pieces of a whole; and I hardly think we can call that a dark lord of the Sith. She is, as she always was, just Kreia.--Jinger 12:01, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
  • Yes, but whatever her beliefs and goals, she is still in charge of the Trayus Academy on Korriban V and commands the Sith legions there at the end of the game. Doesn't that make her the new ruling Sith Lord by definition? Jediphile 10:09, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Concept Art

I found This Image of concept Art: I'm sure it's not good enough to be put in the Article bit but it's a nice image http://zoom.bg/users/i/12/a463b4d33856a3b523a4358f0ce94951.jpg JediNTT307 21:26, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Are you Serious?

The Exile: "What did you see when you looked at him?" Visas: "A man, nothing more." Does Anyone think that's allitle odd that The Exile would ask VISAS that question? She can't see. She can see through the force but it's not like she can give a description of his face and what species. JediNTT307 00:51, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

• (chuckles) Though this is indeed a good point, Visas and most Miraluka can indeed "see", though not in the sense we do. They use the Force. For example, if you ever select her and hit the left stick to enter first person mode, you can see, though it is colored in terms of Light, Dark, and neutral. So you're definitely correct in that she might now be able to discern certain details of his face/person but she is the most logical choice of who to ask since she is the person who knew him best, both as a master, and as a person. Linkstarwars 06:56, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
• I do see truth in what both of you say, JediNTT307, Linkstarwars is definitely about the Miraluka being able to see the Force of a person, though, Nihilus doesn't have a body at all, he transferred the, as they call it, Living Force, from his own body into armor since the dark side was destroying his body. So, in truth, when Kreia said that he is already dead, it is not false, for example

[edit] Distortion

Since we now know that Nihilus no longer had a physical form of some sort, what do you think happened to him? The poor guy must've suffered something with the dark side during the battle at Malachor. DarthWill3 19:28, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] That thing about Nihilus having black dreadlocks should be erased.

I think that "Hair Color: Black" should be erased from Darth Nihilus's profile. Just because it was on a toy doesn't make it canon.

Sith Lord 012 14:37, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

• We should delete the entire article. Just because he was in a game doesn't make him canon. -- I need a name (Complain here) 15:31, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
  • The reference link is wrong though, no Nihilus there. Someone who know their way around Rebelscum better than me might want to fix that. Charlii 18:45, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
    • Fixed. Drewton ^{(Drewton's Holocron)} 19:08, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
      • Well I think that just because Hasbro made an action figure of Nihilus with black hair doesn't mean that he canonically has black hair! Sith Lord 012 21:50, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
        • Is Hasbro not a source? If not then you will have to give us better reason. --Redemption^(Talk) 21:54, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
• Toys and collectibles are considered canon. The hair stays. --Buttbutt 06:11, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
• Does anybody have a problem if this is commented on in the BTS section? Xicer9^(Rawr) 22:31, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
  • Good idea, and it doesn't matter, its canon. I'll write it. NaruHina ^Talk 00:43, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Pic

should the Article Have a Pic of His Face(no Mask)???? Master Gresh 12:07, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

• There aren't any. -- I need a name (Complain here) 14:21, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Wrong Way Round

It claims that Visas says she saw "a man nothing more" in the light side option and the "graveyard" speech for the dark side. I'm sure it was actually the other way round in the game. User talk:1705jallen

• The version in the article is the correct version. Why do you think it is incorrect? Cylka^-talk- 15:32, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

• if you go on to Youtube and look for a video of a dark side Nihilus defeat, look at what the response is, or play that part on both sides, see if its different

Or alternatively, look at Darth Nihilus with increased vitality, which is light side and you'll hear the graveyard speech User talk:1705jallen

• I have played both light and dark sides of the game. Visas says "I saw a graveyard world, surrounded by a fleet of dead ships. I felt it through him... as I feel it through you." if you play DS. She is comparing Nihilus to a DS Exile. In the LS, Visas says "A man, nothing more." since she has resolved her issues with the destruction of her planet, which is only possible with the LS path. I have to say, I don't consider Youtube reliable evidence when it comes to the games since there are a great number of mods out there, and many people film the modded versions. Cylka^-talk- 17:28, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

• oh well. the game was so bugged, I may have a faulty version.
• I got "I saw a graveyard world" with absolutely no mods and as a LS female when I first played. Odd. Drewton ^{(Drewton's Holocron)} 20:06, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
  • AFAIK, the response changes depending on what you ask Visas to do when she goes to the dead body. -- I need a name (Complain here) 20:08, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
    • Did a quick look through the dialog file itself and this seems to be the case. The first option ("Tell me what you saw.") leads to Graveyard world. Second ("What did you see when you looked at him?") leads to a man and nothing more. Don't ask which one is canon though. --Redemption^(Talk) 04:50, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
      • Thanks for checking that out, Redemption. I didn't have that happen to me in my game. This may end up being a bit problematic. I'm guessing that whole bit will have to be taken out of the article, as well as Visas Marr's article. Oh, well. Thanks again. Cylka^-talk- 08:08, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] meaning of name

i belive it is derived from Nihilism or a belief that argues that life is without meaning, purpose or intrinsic value. Moral nihilists assert that morality does not exist, and subsequently there are no moral values with which to uphold a rule or to logically prefer one action over another which sounds acurate for this character

• "Like many Sith Lords, Nihilus's name has a second meaning (nihil is Latin for "nothing").[15] This may be a reference to the fact that he has no physical body, only his consciousness in his armor. Nihilus is also derived from the term "nihilism," or "belief in nothing," most notably the denial of concepts of truth and purpose.[16] Another Latin-derived term from nihil is the English word, "annihilation" which means "to destroy completely" or "reduce to nonexistence."" To quote the article. It is already stated in the article that it is related to the word "Nihilism" but the definition and practice of Nihilism are actually quite different much of the time which is why it does not go into detail about the belief as it would become too convoluted. NaruHina ^Talk 04:25, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

thats what i just said

• In that case, I suggest you read the article. This page is for discussing changes to the article, not reflecting on the character or inspirations for it if such info is already present. NaruHina ^Talk 01:51, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Darkside Energy

Darth Nihilus became living darkside energies after the Mass Shadows tore him apart, so why whenever I put living darkside energies into his infobox does it get deleted? —Unsigned comment by Darth Nihilus the Lord of Hunger (talk • contribs).

• Do you have a source for that? User:NaruHina is currently in the process of bringing this to GA status—unsourced information will be considered fanon and removed. SoresuMakashi^{(Everything I tell you is the truth)} 02:10, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

It's from the campaign guide. He used to be Human but was so absored by the dark side his boady dissolved. Also isnt Nihilus the first person to use the "seperate the spirit and boady technice". {{SUBST:User:Jayce Carver/sig}} 07:52, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

• Yes that is from the campaign guide that he no longer had a physical form. Nowhere does it say he bbecame living dark side energies. Also, even though he isn't "physical" anymore, he is still Human. NaruHina ^Talk 00:26, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Im sticking with my beleif and even though its not canon as of now I'll likely email George Lucas and confirm it, but until than none of us can prove he is an average human or darside energies. —Unsigned comment by Darth Nihilus the Lord of Hunger (talk • contribs).

• Actually, the CG says "Before it devours him totally, Nihilus uses its power to displace his persona into his robes and armor. As his useless body disintegrates, he becomes living primitive intention; at last, the whole of the galaxy becomes food-for Nihilus has become the hunger." It makes no mention of him becoming living dark side energies and actually states that his own spirit went into the armor, not that he became anything different. You have no source for your theory and the one you're trying to pass off does not affirm what you want it to. NaruHina ^Talk 13:56, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Re:distortion

Hmm,good point DarthWill.That could explain why he doesn't speak any known language.Explanation:The dark side energies could of deformed him somehow.Was he mute before he became a sith?Alpha957 21:53, 11 May 2009 (UTC)Alpha957

He speaks the same language that Atris' Sith holocrons speak (from the sound of it). Therefore, your claim that "he doesn't speak any known language" is totally false, and in the end, your claim is pure speculation anyway. --Michaeldsuarez ^{(Talk) (Deeds)} 14:33, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

PS: If he doesn't have "any physical form" as DarthWill claims, then how do we explain this action figure. --Michaeldsuarez ^{(Talk) (Deeds)} 14:37, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Gap in Nihilus' Past

While I was reading this article, I found a gap in the story of his past.- "He lost everything during the Mandalorian Wars, surviving the activation of the Mass Shadow Generator at the Battle of Malachor V, which surrounded the planet with a destructive spacial phenomenon known as a mass shadow that obliterated almost everything and everyone on and around the planet. The experience of the shadows made him "hunger" for Force energy, and the affliction began to ravage his body." And the next explanation of his past is-"Nihilus was alive at the conclusion of the Mandalorian Wars, a galaxy-wide conflict between the Mandalorian and the Galactic Republic government, during which he was said to have lost everything, including his friends, family, and his will to live."

So how did he end up on Malachor V? Was he a Revanchist, was he a Mandalorian, a Republic Soldier? If it says he lost his family, friends, and will to live, one would assume that his homeworld was conquered by the Mandalorians.--Darth Dan 012 14:56, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

• Unknown, hence why it's not in the article. -- I need a name (Complain here) 14:57, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
  • We do not assume anything. If it's not told, it is unknown. Mauser^Comlink 14:58, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
    • Sorry to restart an old issue, but I always got the impression Malachor V was his homeworld. Thus, he lost everything at the Battle of Malachor, but survived the Mass Shadow Generator and started hungering for Force energy. Makashi Flourish 20:43, November 15, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Confusing speculation

A while ago, I read on this article and others a few speculative bits that really confused me. One statement was that Nihilus' mask was rumored to have been made from Revan's skull. Another was that Revan's flagship was rumored to be the Ravager, later to be acquired by Nihilus. I know that these "rumors" do not make sense, but this site (or maybe it was another encyclopedia, I could be mistaken) at one point said them to be actual rumors. I have no idea where they came from and why no site makes a note of them now. I'm stumped. Anyone have any input on that? --Mateo22 03:26, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

• I believe this all originated here with some ancient revision and then IGN saw it at one point and assumed it correct.--Redemption^(Talk) 04:47, October 11, 2009 (UTC)