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Talk:Darth Plagueis/Archive1

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This page is an archive of the discussion of an article. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's current talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.

Contents

[edit] Char box

What is the point of a char box? We no nothing of Plagueis, other than Palpatine's aside mention of him. --SparqMan 00:23, 14 Aug 2005 (UTC)

  • We know they're both the same don't we? -- Riffsyphon1024 23:05, 23 Aug 2005 (UTC)
  • Please don't keep adding the char box. We know virtually nothing about this character's species, homeworld, gender, height, eyes or hair colour, and so the box is useless. QuentinGeorge 12:36, 29 Oct 2005 (UTC)

[edit] An Explanation for Plagueis' Murder and other Bits of Backstory

Having just acquired Vader: The Ultimate Guide, I wanted to incorporate the huge amounts of facts and implications in regards to Darth Plagueis. Among the new gossip are these crucial facts:

1.) From p. 7: "If the lore of the Sith Lords is to be believed, Anakin Skywalker began life as the byproduct of Sith experimentation. Darth Plagueis, a devotee of the dark side and lover of the numinous and arcane, developed a method of preserving life in those who were dying - and, taken to the extreme, of inducing the midi-chlorians to create out of nothing. Anakin Skywalker, who never had a biological father, is believed to have been the result of Darth Plagueis' vision. It remains unclear whether the deed came about through the efforts of Plagueis or through those of Plagueis' ambitious apprentice, Darth Sidious."

This changes the dynamic of the "miraculous birth" debate. If Sidious alone says something about Plagueis power to create life to Anakin, it cannot be taken seriously even if it does potentially answer where Anakin came from, because SIDIOUS LIES. A LOT. On the other hand, if some source other than Sidious' lying mouth says something to this effect, then it can be taken more seriously. Why would Sidious lie to himself about it? If he preserved this fact in Sith lore - and he would be the only one in a position to do so - then he probably meant what he said. This is the first piece of circumstantial evidence that Plagueis did indeed "father" Anakin. As to why it was Plagueis and not Sidious who did it, that is partially answered by the next fact.

2.) From p. 35: "Plagueis revealed to Sidious an experiment he'd conceived to create life directly from the midi-chlorians found in one's blood, potentially yielding a being of astounding power. Comprehending that any such being would amount to Sidious' replacement, the Sith apprentice murdered his master." There aren't a whole heap of recorded "miraculous births" out there with tremendous Force powers, so unless the "experiment" refers to someone other than Anakin, a predecessor, then this is more circumstancial evidence that Plagueis himself caused Anakin's "miraculous birth."

It also gives Sidious a specific motive for doing his master in: he killed Plagueis to save his job, as it were. An entire chain of events flows from this, including a series of decsions Sidious would have had to make in terms of what to do with Plagueis when he feared for his position. If you put yourself in his head, it is not hard to guess how his thought processes worked. As a side note, it also dates the death to 43 BBY, the date Anakin would have been conceived (assuming he took nine months to be born and that his birth was in the fourth month of 42 BBY). Palpatine would have been a senator for nine years by then, and Maul would have been eleven years old.

3.) From p. 35: "Darth Sidious had multiple pupils, beginning with the feral Sith Lord Darth Maul, whom Sidious raised and trained without Plagueis' knowledge." As I put into the article, why would Sidious care what Plagueis knew if he was already dead? This means that Sidious was breaking the cardinal rule of only two Sith behind his master's back, and though his reasons for this are not known, the most logical reason is that he was already planning to unseat Plagueis and become master himself, with Maul already prepared as an apprentice.

I've got more, but my fingers are tired. More later!

  • Could you remove the OOU statements you've put into the article? QuentinGeorge 05:52, 8 Sep 2005 (UTC)
  • I'd be glad to, Quentin, as soon as I get near my computer tonight, when I'll have the time needed to do the edits. At the time, I hadn't been aware of the rules here for OOU materials, and my personal style tends to incorporate both (when you have to defend a fact you've cited, it seemed wise the have the source at hand). It's my fault, I should have checked the rules first. But let not your heart be troubled, I'l get 'er done. Otherwise, hope you like the article! Erik Pflueger 15:54, 8 Sep 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Creating the Chosen One

I read some blogs on starwars.com, and I was wondering the same thing others were wondering, If Darth Plagueis could created life, did he use the force to creat Anakin?

  • There are many scenarios to Anakin's birth. Just read the "Anakin's Possible "Father"" section on the Anakin Skywalker page. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 20:27, 3 Nov 2005 (UTC)

More than likely he did. Also George Lucas on the Epi. 3 commentary seems to strongly hint toward it. It can be said with 90% certainty. This expirament could also explain why Plagueis went to sleep, using so much energy and focus to create, that Sidious took this moment to kill his out of date master. It would also seem Sidious had a great deal of respect for him, and a great deal of envy. He wanted the power Plagueis had, but now it was obvious that Plagueis had created the possible replacement for him, one he would mold into the perfect apprentice, and one less ambitious than Sidious. Maul could also have been a Dark Acolyte at the time so that he would technically be a sith lord, merely a weapon in preparation, and now with this expirament created and his master dead, he would use maul as a place holder, and wait for the expirament to surface. Now if this is in fact the truth behind anakin's creation, then we have one question left to answer, where did he come into contact with Shmi, and if he selected Shmi, then why? Was she of a lineage of powerful force users? Who knows? However if this is all true, then we've only scratched the surface of the plot by the sith, and this opens a whole new realm thus broadening the star wars universe. The humorous thing about this theory is that Bane's order failed, because the sith ended up destroying themselves, by creating the very being who was prophecied to destroy them. A being whose power could never be topped nor duplicated ever again.

  • Of course, this is still uncertain. Admiral J. Nebulax 21:22, 1 Dec 2005 (UTC)
    • Well of course. DarthMalus
      • Until a source officially says Plagueis was his "father", we can only assume this. Admiral J. Nebulax 20:18, 7 Dec 2005 (UTC)
        • I think that's never gonna happen. There won't be a source saying Sidious/Plagueis made Anakin. It will always be ambiguous I think. --Master Starkeiller 20:34, 7 Dec 2005 (UTC)
          • Just like my old science teacher said, "A good mystery will always remain one". Admiral J. Nebulax 20:36, 7 Dec 2005 (UTC)
            • Also, any trace of "Plagueis created Anakin" in the article should be changed to "Plagueis might have created Anakin" in case if it hasn't been done yet. Admiral J. Nebulax 21:25, 8 Dec 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Info box

There is absolutely no reason for one. We know his gender and his affiliation. That's it. Admiral J. Nebulax 02:00, 1 Jan 2006 (UTC)

  • I suppose it'll be OK without one. However, I felt that a character box made it clear that we would be dealing with a character, just as a vehicle box specifies that we are dealing with a vehicle. Yeah, I know it's kind of obvious, but... General Kenobi 02:02, 1 Jan 2006 (UTC)
    • Aww, I was just about to protect the page :'( --Imp 02:03, 1 Jan 2006 (UTC)
      • Sorry to disappoint you. ;) General Kenobi 02:04, 1 Jan 2006 (UTC)
        • I think he was talking to me, General. Anyway, I've learned. Admiral J. Nebulax 03:20, 1 Jan 2006 (UTC)

well me my self i think he is hhis farther other wise where eles cold he be and what eles could explain anikins willingness to go to the darkside and also his great strenth with the darkside

[edit] 1500 years old?

I read somwhere that Plagueis was 1500 years old when he died and was born on Korribaan. I am trying to find the source.Kalas Grengar 03:10, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

  • Don't bother. Sounds too much of a stretch to beleive anyway. -- SFH 03:13, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
    • Probably more SuperIdiot fanon. Admiral J. Nebulax 13:22, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
      • Contradicts the Darth Bane timeline anyway, if Plagueis was already 500 years old at the Seventh Battle of Ruusan. — Silly Dan 13:42, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
        • Good point. Admiral J. Nebulax 16:13, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
          • We don't know how old Plagueis was or even what he looked like, but we do know that 200 prior to the coming of Darth Sidious, the darkside began gathering strength. DarthMalus
            • From what source? And why so specific? The Sith Order grows steadily more powerful from Ruusan onwards - Kwenn 19:22, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
              • "but we do know that 200 [years] prior to the coming of Darth Sidious, the [dark side] began gathering strength". Doesn't have to be Plagueis. Admiral J. Nebulax 20:18, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
                • but it could. don't know, but it is a possibility.
                  • But it probably isn't. Admiral J. Nebulax 21:11, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
                    • probably isn't? you cant say that. no reason to believe or disbelieve it. he could keep people from deth and extend his own life, and sidious spoke of plagueis as becoming so powerful that the only thing he feared was of course losing it. it could refer to plagueis, but until we can be sure, then it wont be in the article. this is only speculation, an opening of one's mind to the possibility. it is only speculation, no need of shooting it down. what is the proble reason for this nebulax, you didn't give a reason, what else could be a possibility?DarthMalus
                      • Uh, maybe the Sith Master that trained Plagueis, or any of the other Sith Masters before him. I extrememly doubt that Plagueis was 1,500 years old. Admiral J. Nebulax 19:58, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
  • The dark side growing strong again was from The New Essential Chronology. Personally, I'm inclined to believe that it was the birth of Plagueis that caused to the Force to become murky, though until we see any sort of confirmation, it should go in "behind the scences" at best, in list of fanon at worse. -- SFH 20:03, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
    • Okay, why are we assuming this, then? We have no proof that it was/wasn't Plagueis. It could have been another strong Sith that trained Plagueis or some other Sith. Admiral J. Nebulax 20:06, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
  • I misspoke. I meant if we decide to put it in. I think it was when he was born, but then again, I also thought that Allana was going to named Padme, so what do I know? -- SFH 20:09, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
    • I definitely think that we shouldn't put it in. We don't know that it was him. Admiral J. Nebulax 20:12, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
      • who said we're posting it. no no no, this is speculation not fact. we only know that darth plagueis was a powerful dark lord of the sith, he was possibly the father of anakin, he was cruel, and that he had a master and he had an apprentice. that's all! dont anyone post anything else in the article. the page is perfect as it is, for now. DarthMalus
        • Okay, then... Admiral J. Nebulax 20:23, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
          • Just a reference: NEC was the not the first one to say "dark side gathering strength" stuff. In Labyrinth of Evil and EP3 Novel Yoda & Mace said that the Sith never disappear, the Sith does not create darkness, they merely use the darkness already exists. In LoE Yoda mentioned the Sith "suddenly comes closer to the surface". Darth Kevinmhk 05:47, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Date of Death

Okay, so what's up with this? Is it 42 BBY or 43 BBY? I thought it was 42 BBY, but it's not included in the article, so I dunno...--Sauron18 10:17 27 June 2006 (CDT)

Current page claims Plagueis died 60-50 BBY. Whouldn't 50-40 BBY be more like it? Why not "sometime around 40 BBY"? 54 BBY Maul Born(Sidious hides him from Plagueis) 41.9 BBY Anakin Born(Plagueis or Sidious create life???) Wouldn't Sideous have killed his Master just prior to or just after the 41.9 BBY birth of Anakin?

    • No the page says that he was alive at least at that point. The common guess is that he died somewhere around 43 or 42 BBY --Sauron18 06:21, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

If Plagueis died 43BBY, he died years before Anakin's 41.9 BBY birth. Which rules out the possibility of Plagueis being Anakin's creator.. I don't think you can claim that yet.

  • We don't know when he died or if he created Anakin yet. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) 15:33, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
    • so stop speculating :P hah. its best just to leave it open for the moment Jedi Dude 15:54, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
      • Exactly. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) 19:00, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
        • And I dare say that one cannot use the time required for a biological human birth to estimate the time for a Force-powered human birth. For example (assuming he did create Ani) after Plagueis "cast the spell", maybe Shmi would biologically feel nothing for ten years and then suddenly have a baby blah blah blah... We just don't know... Darth Kevinmhk 03:14, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
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