Talk:Darth Sidious

*sigh* Name.........

OK, so, I have to say this. The most common name for Palpatine in the Disney continuity ("Canon") is "Palpatine". "Sheev" occurs once, and "Sheev Palpatine" occurs nowhere. Per Wookieepedia's naming policy, the most often used name is preferred. "There's been a lengthy debate going on at Qymaen jai Sheelal over whether the article should really be there instead of at "Grievous". Some say it's more professional and encyclopedic to use birth names (and that redirects prevent any subsequent confusion), while others say the same about whatever name the individual used last, and/or was more widely known as, citing Mark Twain on Wikipedia as one such example. As the result of this debate could set precedent for the moving of many other articles, such as Padme Amidala, Mara Jade Skywalker, Leia Organa Solo, and so on, I felt it was worth discussion amongst a larger audience. CooperTFN 18:22, 26 February 2006 (UTC)" A more pertinent example from Wikipedia would be every single Roman Emperor from Augustus to Constantine Palaeologus. The Augustus article is not titled "Gaius Octavius", it is titled "Augustus" (like Augustus, Palpatine is never known to have used his given name as Emperor, and we have no evidence that anyone except Tarkin, once, ever did). The article on Philip the Arab is titled "Philip the Arab", not "Marcus Julius Philippus", the article on Julian is titled "Julian", not "Flavius Claudius Iulianus", the article on Diocletian is "Diocletian", not "Diocles" or "Gaius Valerius Diocletianus", etc. OK, so who cares about Wikipedia, this is Wookieepedia, right? Well, I'd argue that we should have waited to see "Sheev Palpatine" used a few times (or, you know, at least once, maybe) before we renamed the article, because according to Wookieepedia rules, "the most commonly known [...] name" is to be used when the character has many names, and "Palpatine" is the most commonly known name. I am talking about the article title, here, not the introductory paragraph, which should begin with "Sheev Palpatine" in bold letters. And also all the canon articles that mention Palpatine. --R5-X41238-G8-R3-3124-D2 (talk) 22:06, October 25, 2014 (UTC)

• I don't see what the fuss is all about. His first name is Sheev and his last name Palpatine. We always have full names in article titles. 1358 ^(Talk) 22:12, October 25, 2014 (UTC)
  • (Edit conflict) You're misinterpreting the naming policy. The "most common name" argument applies to when people have multiple names. For example, Qymaen jai Sheelal is the Legends birth name for Grievous, but his most commonly used name in-universe is Grievous. Hence the article being titled Grievous. Similarly, it's why the articles about Palpatine use his real name, rather than Darth Sidious. But Sheev is Palpatine's actual first name in canon. It's not an alternate name, like Darth Sidious is. It's his actual name. Therefore, the "most common name" argument doesn't apply, because we use his full name. - Brandon Rhea^(talk) 22:15, October 25, 2014 (UTC)
    • I understand that full names are preferred; I'm just saying that in this case, it would be prudent to wait and see if the first name is used (the one use of it that we have makes it seem like it's some kind of state secret) before using it all over the place. Maybe I can understand its use in the article title. But in every other article, making it seem anyone would ever call "Palpatine" "Sheev Palpatine", in-universe? Why? --R5-X41238-G8-R3-3124-D2 (talk) 22:25, October 25, 2014 (UTC)
      • It's his real name, so we use his real name. It's that simple, really. The naming policy is very clear on this front. It doesn't really matter if the name "Sheev" is rarely used in-universe, because it's still his real name. - Brandon Rhea^(talk) 22:27, October 25, 2014 (UTC)
        • Sure, whatever. I had to say it, though. For my soul. --R5-X41238-G8-R3-3124-D2 (talk) 22:36, October 25, 2014 (UTC)
          • Regarding the point of using it widely in other articles, I'm sure there are other characters too who more commonly went by a particular name, but the full name is still used regularly in articles. For example, I'm pretty sure that's the case with the article example given on the naming policy page, Jabba Desilijic Tiure. Personally, I'm fine with the name. As I was reading, it's referential of "Shiva," which follows a practice of Hindu name references that's also used with other names of Naboo people. And for those that really think it's dumb-- well, that's perfect. If you don't like it, maybe he didn't either; that's why he never used it! ProfessorTofty (talk) 23:51, October 25, 2014 (UTC)
            • Just out of morbid curiosity, how many times and under what circumstances is Palpatine called "Sheev" in Tarkin? I don't have that book.--Richterbelmont10 ^{(come in R2!)} 03:59, October 26, 2014 (UTC)
              • Tarkin calls him Sheev on page 93 of Tarkin, which you can see in the preview on Amazon.com. It's referred to as his first name. - Brandon Rhea^(talk) 04:08, October 26, 2014 (UTC)

Name... again

I agree that the title of this page should be his full name. However, why do we use his full name when linking to this page, when he is almost always known simply by his surname? Shouldn't links in other articles just read as Palpatine? --DK Wolf 27 ^{Holonet Channel} 03:37, November 16, 2014 (UTC)

• Nothing prevents you from doing so. That's what I do most of the time. Lelal Mekha ^{(Audience Room)} 09:43, November 16, 2014 (UTC)
  • But there's no reason not to either. Jabba is normally known as "Jabba the Hutt," but on many of our Legends pages, he is still referred to as "Jabba Desilijic Tiure." ProfessorTofty (talk) 10:47, November 16, 2014 (UTC)
    • But nothing prevents any editor from using "Jabba the Hutt" in a Legends article if he/she wants. It's a perfectly valid nomenclature, and it all boils down to the editor's preference. Likewise, I usually pipelink Galactic Empire/Canon" to "First Galactic Empire. --Lelal Mekha ^{(Audience Room)} 10:53, November 16, 2014 (UTC)
      • Okay, that's cool, I just saw loads of articles where his full name is used and didn't want to be inconsistent. I thought maybe there was a rule saying we should use the full name when linking here. --DK Wolf 27 ^{Holonet Channel} 01:40, November 17, 2014 (UTC)

Lightsaber combat

The article states that the only person known to have defeated Sidious in lightsaber combat was Mace Windu. I still think this point is debatable, as I think being disarmed and at the point of Windu's lightsaber was all part of Sidious' design to seduce Anakin to the dark side. In that regard I'd say Sidious allowed Windu to get the upper hand, because the sight of Windu about to slay a seemingly defenseless old man (who had promised to save Padme from death) would be the final temptation to bring Anakin fully to the dark side.

I know it's debatable and there may never be agreement on who was truly the better combatant, and I think the article should reflect this uncertainty. Q-Wing (talk) 19:08, November 22, 2014 (UTC)

Ditto with Anakin Skywalker "having visions" of Padme's death and Palpatine "taking advantage" of that event. Isn't it much more likely that Palpatine caused these visions? Or at least helped them? --JRBaldauf (talk) 06:27, December 2, 2014 (UTC)

Regarding the first point- I agree completely. Feel free to edit as you see fit regarding that. Regarding the second, now this seems much more speculative to me, given that there has never been any information provided, either in canon or Legends for that matter, that I know of, that would indicate it's possible to induce or manipulate such visions. ProfessorTofty (talk) 08:52, December 2, 2014 (UTC)

3.2 Corrected tense

Would it make more sense to have the events in this article be discussed in past tense? The way it is now, some sections feel like someone is reading the story of the original trilogy out loud.

Additionally, are there plans to cleanup a few of the grammatical errors (mostly commas)? JRBaldauf (talk) 06:31, December 2, 2014 (UTC)

Feel free to correct any of these problems. The article was apparently edited a while back by someone with limited command of the English language and not all of the issues have been fixed yet. ProfessorTofty (talk) 08:52, December 2, 2014 (UTC)

Why has the page been moved to Darth Sidious?

Why on earth has "Sheev Palpatine" been moved to "Darth Sidious?" Palpatine is used more often than Sidious ever is, and it's his real name. Palpatine didn't ever even go by Sidious in public; it was always by "Palpatine," even during the Empire's reign where the galaxy knew him as "Emperor Palpatine." Cevan (talk) 22:00, January 28, 2015 (UTC)

• Per Forum:CT Archive/Proposed amendment to the naming policy. ProfessorTofty (talk) 22:02, January 28, 2015 (UTC)