Talk:Electromagnetic pulse grenade

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This is the talk page for the article "Electromagnetic pulse grenade."

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Merge with ion grenade? Edit

From information in both articles, and their apparent use, it seems pretty clear that they are the same weapon, if one not simply being a variant of the other. They are both thrown grenades (obviously), they both have a 3-meter blast radius, they both way 0.5 kg, they both generate an electromagnetic pulse and they're both primarily used for disabling electronics. Therefore, I think these articles should be merged. --Thecrazyweirdo (AKA CommanderAwesome) Talk Contribs 23:15, October 15, 2014 (UTC)

  • They are very similar. In Saga Edition however, they are listed as two separate weapons, with the ion grenade dealing slightly more damage.--Richterbelmont10 R2 sig(come in R2!) 00:36, October 16, 2014 (UTC)

EMP Grenade/EC-Detonator Edit

I would not say they are the same. As we can see the effect of an EMP grenade in "The Clone Wars" and the Effect of an EC Detonator in the Republic commando video game it seems that the EC detonator is not a real EMP-like grenade and more like an electric grenade with some EMP abilities. as we can see it can harm organics with some significant damage and the real EMP-grenades are unable to do such a thing as we can see in this one clone wars episode on geonosis. I would suggest we create 2 different articles. --Overlord-1138 (talk) 12:35, January 22, 2015 (UTC)

  • Ok I wil create a new Page about them soon. And btw I would suggest you to play Republic commando, its a great game and makes lots of fun. --Overlord-1138 (talk) 22:30, January 22, 2015 (UTC)
    • From what I can tell, the EC detonators from Republic Commando are the same thing as EMP grenades. The primary difference is that the game has the EC detonator cause more violent destruction, but that is true for every weapon in the game as it was much more violent than The Clone Wars. As for the EMP grenades not being able to harm living beings, The Clone Wars Campaign Guide establishes that EMP grenades can damage both droids and organics. Star Wars: Battlefront also shows EMP grenades that can damage organics. The differences between the weapons are minor and can be attributed to the style and mechanics of the various sources. Unless there is a source that says they are different or says that EC detonators are a specific type of EMP grenade, I do not believe that EC detonators need a separate article.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 21:16, January 25, 2015 (UTC)
      • But there also is not a souce wich say that they are the same. They have different names, optics and effects, at least we should explain the differences between them and actual emp grenades since there are appreciable differences betwenn them, like the fact that real emp nades will shut down any droid immediatly and EC-detonators will only damage and stun them. Also EMP nades will not do damage to organics as we could see in the geonosis episode, i know they do in battlefront but battlefront is known to be against canon and TCW actually is real canon, anyway ECSs are able to inflict damage to organics and also stun them as we can see in republic commando. ECD means electrostatic detonator and electrostatic is a different thing as an electromagnetic pulse. I would suggest to create either an own article like i did but it was deleted then or explain their differences in this article. --Overlord-1138 (talk) 17:32, February 1, 2015 (UTC)
        • As Exiled Jedi mentions, the EMP grenade does do harm to organics. According to the game mechanics of the Saga Edition role-playing game, organics take one-quarter of hit point damage if hit by the EMP grenade. So it does hurt organics, but just a little bit. Also, according to Saga Edition rules, EMP grenades stun droids. The weapons are very similar and difficult to distinguish. Electrostatic and electromagnetic may not be the same thing in the real world, but unless you can prove that these weapons are different by finding differing descriptions from sources, then it should remain one article.--Richterbelmont10 R2 sig(come in R2!) 04:53, February 2, 2015 (UTC)
          • you said "game mechanics" and after the rules of woockieepedia they are strictly not canon and we saw in TCW that they are not able to harm organics like an EMP effect in real life. and why must i prove they are not the same? I could say u must prove they are the same. ECDs were only in the game republic commando. as we see there they have a different name, can harm organics and droids and also stun them for a short amount of time by electrocuting them but are not able to shut droids down as we have seen in TCW. They are not the same they are two different types of grenades, its obviously. --Overlord-1138 (talk) 22:24, February 3, 2015 (UTC)
            • Well, I'm inclined to agree that perhaps the Electrostatic Charge Detonator should have its own separate page. The EMP grenade and the ECD may be similar, but not identical, and thus should have their own separate page.--Richterbelmont10 R2 sig(come in R2!) 04:44, February 4, 2015 (UTC)
  • Thank you for agreeing with me. After all we know till yet they are different in many cases. I also created a page about them some time ago, but as I said it was deleted, is it possible to restore it? --Overlord-1138 (talk) 06:49, February 5, 2015 (UTC)
    • We'll have to talk to Exiled Jedi about it, since he's the one who redirected the article. I looked at the Electrostatic Charge Detonator article before it got redirected, and there are many fixes that should be made. For one thing, it would really help if citations and references were added to make sure exactly where the information is being taken from. The more references that are added, the more chances the article will be able to stand up on its own merit. In the History section it says, "EC-detonators were standard-issue weapons for clone commandos." This was copied from the EMP article and needs to be removed because it was a reference from The Essential Guide to Warfare, which was talking about the EMP, not the ECD. Any information like this that was copied from the EMP article needs to be checked and removed if necessary. Here's another example: the Infobox lists the range at "approximately 4-meter blast radius." This is copied from the EMP article, which is taken from The Clone Wars Campaign Guide. This should be removed unless one of the Republic Commando sources says the blast is 4 meters. Also, the article needs to be placed into one or more appropriate categories, such as Category:Grenades and/or Category:Electrical weaponry or Category:EMP demolitions, depending on how the weapon actually works.--Richterbelmont10 R2 sig(come in R2!) 19:56, February 5, 2015 (UTC)
      • Yes we should ask him about it, could you do this? I was going to put references in it but the article was removed so fast before I got the chance for it. It was the first page i created so im sorry if some things arent like they should had bee. the part with "standart issue weapons" was not copied but I read the emp-grenade article to see how such a page should look like and the emp nade article said emp nades were standart issue weapons for clone troopers so I wrote clone-commandos since delta squad carried them in every misson in the game. But the thing with the approximately 4-meter blast radius comes from my mind and not from the EMP nade article, look it up the emp one says it has 3meter i wrote this because there is no source wich says it is 4 meter but it looks like this in the game thats why i wrote approximately. maybe this should be actually not in the article since there is not a source wich explicit says this. Also i dont know how to put it in categorys. --Overlord-1138 (talk) 17:01, February 6, 2015 (UTC)
        • After checking through some of the sources in this article, I came across Guide to the Grand Army of the Republic, which states that every clone trooper was issued an ECD (anti-droid) grenade produced by BlasTech. While it does not spell out that ECD is "Electrostatic charge detonator" I believe there is enough evidence to say that the weapon is intended to be the same one from Republic Commando, which is apparently stated to be produced by BlasTech in the Republic Commando game guide. Following from this, I think it is pretty safe to say that the EC detonator is the same as the EMP grenade as the EMP grenade is a standard grenade for clone forces in Star Wars Battlefront and The Clone Wars.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 17:45, February 6, 2015 (UTC)
          • But there is also no source wich says explicit they are the same. Its a speculation to say they are same just because of some similarities. I think its more possible that the some normal troopers carried them sometimes. From what we know they have a different name and an different effect. It would make no sense that the same weapon would have two completely different names. And you will agree with me that an electromagnetic pulse is not the same as an electrostatic charge. A good indication is that the advanced dwarf spider droid also has its own article. i think this is nearly the same situation. I dont see a problem by making an article about it since the ECD exists in any case. And from what we can say its not the same as an emp grenade. And to one of your earlier points, the one that every weapon in republic commando is more violent, this is not the case(if you meant it the way I think you meant it). You need several shots to take out an B1 battle droid an more than 100 shots for an super battle droid. I do not think that this is more violent. As I said before, we should give it an own article or at least mention it in the EMP-grenade article as an another version, but the better idea would just be to give it an own article. And please recognize that we cant take battlefront as canon, otherwise we had to add that Tie fighters can now fire proton torpedos, im sure you get this point. --Overlord-1138 (talk) 01:35, February 8, 2015 (UTC)
  • Its not obvious it was also said DC-15A was standart issue equipment. same with DC-15S but that does not make them the same. clone troopers just use both of them in an equal amount. Its was NEVER said in any source that they are the same, never. When you say they are, its just your personal speculation wich is build from some indications. Thats against the rules of WP. The safest way is to create a different page. --Overlord-1138 (talk) 13:49, February 8, 2015 (UTC)
    • The two sources I mentioned above say that clones are equipped with one of the two blasters, so that doesn't really affect anything I have said. I have backed up my reasoning with numerous pieces of evidence. All you have involves real-world physics, which doesn't necessarily apply in Star Wars, and your statement that EMP grenades do not damage organics, which is not true in many sources that I have mentioned. Unless you obtain community consensus to split the EC detonator into a new article, this article is not going to be split.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 15:52, February 8, 2015 (UTC)
      • you can clearly see in in TCW wich is much higher canon than any of your sources that they CAN'T harm organics. My sources are TCW and the Republic commando video game in wich we can see the differences. They have other names ,other optics and other effects. The amount of damage and particularly the way the ECDs deal damage are completely differnt from the EMP nades. ECDs are also not able to disable droids like EMP nades do, they just destroy them by electrocuting them. How can you say they are the same when we can see their effects wich are completly different? Have you played RC? If you did you must know their effect works different. And as I said many times now, there is NO source wich explicit states that they are the same so we must assume they are two different things. And you know that books sometimes contradict each other. Its is also the only book that says that normal troopers use ECDs every other source says the use EMP nades including TCW wich is higher Canon, so its presumably that the author confused them. --Overlord-1138 (talk) 17:47, February 8, 2015 (UTC)
        • We've covered this ground already. This article is not being split unless you obtain consensus from the community.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 18:45, February 8, 2015 (UTC)

Okay, so I have to be admit, I got a bit lost in this conversation, only understanding the two conflicting sides to it not so much the nuanced arguments. I'm also not sure if this thread is old enough that I'm necroing so I apologize for that. However, I want to point out that the EMP grenades used in Star Wars: Battlefront are not the exact same grenades as the ECDs used in Star Wars: Republic Commando as they are two different models. The clone troopers in Battlefront used V-6 haywire grenades (produced by Merr-Sonn Munitions)that are spherical whereas the ones employed by Republic commandos are cylindrical (produced by BlasTech) for starters. I don't think the exact model name for the ones used in Republic Commando were ever given though, unless ECD is the model name. The droid poppers of tCW are also different from the V-6 haywire grenade and the ECD since the droid poppers merely deactivate the droids and are far less destructive, and we also don't witness the electromagnetic pulse effects. However, though the V-6 haywire grenade and the ECD are different grenades, this is aside from the point as this article doesn't cover a specific model but a category of anti-droid grenades, and it is still possible that the ECDs are another name for EMP grenades. But there also remains the possibility I think that the ECDs are a specific model of EMP grenades (which was my initial interpretaton) just as the V-6 haywire grenade is a specific model. I also think a case can be made that the droid poppers might be ion grenades not EMP grenades. Sol PacificusFirestorm 08:08, October 19, 2016 (UTC)

  • I just checked The Essential Guide to Warfare and The Clone Wars Campaign Guide. Both are explicit that "droid poppers" are used as a nickname for EMP grenades, which would mean that they are neither ion grenades nor do "droid poppers" refer to a specific model of EMP grenades. So for that point in particular, I am wrong. Sol PacificusFirestorm 09:55, October 19, 2016 (UTC)

Spelling Edit

"Electromagnetism" and "electromagnetic" are properly spelled as one word. I think I even fixed this a long time ago with electromagnetic pulse launcher. Is there a source that it's written "electro magnetic"? Sol PacificusFirestorm 08:16, October 19, 2016 (UTC)

Besides that it is properly spelled as one word in real-life, The Essential Guide to Warfare also spells it as one word. I am moving the page. Sol PacificusFirestorm 09:55, October 19, 2016 (UTC)
Okay, so apparently the current Databank entry spells it as "Electro Magnetic Pulse grenade"... I've already moved it..., but The Essential Guide to Warfare spells it "electromagnetic pulse grenade". Sol PacificusFirestorm 11:02, October 19, 2016 (UTC)

V-6 haywire grenade vs. ECD vs. droid popper Edit

This is related to the thread above, which I replied to (and may have necro'd). I want to state my point here more clearly.

  1. The V-6 haywire grenade used by clone troopers in Star Wars: Battlefront is produced by Merr-Sonn Munitions and not the same as the Electrostatic Charge Detonators produced by BlasTech Industries in Star Wars: Republic Commando.
  2. However, I do think that they belong to the same class of grenades known as electromagnetic pulse grenades, so ECD might very well be a different name for EMP grenade.
  3. But I think it is possible that the ECD of Republic Commando is a specific model of EMP grenades, which is something I think we should double-check on, just as the V-6 haywire grenade is a specific model of EMP grenade.
  4. The article presents "droid poppers" as another general name for EMP grenade that is interchangeable. This may or may not be incorrect. The "droid poppers" used in The Clone Wars are unlike the V-6 haywire grenade or the ECD. They do not emit the "electromagnetic pulse" effect we see in the other two grenades and deactivate the droids without destroying them. I think this is the source of the confusion of the user above who introduced this case. He believed that EMP grenade is different from ECD because he saw "droid poppers" as the main example of EMP grenades (thus arguing that EMP grenades cannot harm organics). I think his mistake is believing that droid poppers are EMP grenades altogether. He took droid poppers as representative of EMP grenades (incorrect) and saw them as distinct from ECD (correct), thus concluding that EMP and ECD are not the same. The V-6 haywire grenade and the ECD are certainly EMP grenades, but aside from the question of whether ECD is a specific model, I do think that the "droid poppers" may be (as that user thought) distinct from ECD/EMP grenades altogether. I think the droid poppers are more accurately ion grenades.
  5. As well, the article assumes that "droid popper" is a general name used by clone troopers for EMP grenades (or ion grenades), but it is possible that the "droid popper" is their nickname for a specific model of ion grenades.

These considerations are very critical for this article. Sol PacificusFirestorm 08:27, October 19, 2016 (UTC)

  • I just checked The Essential Guide to Warfare and The Clone Wars Campaign Guide. Both are explicit that "droid poppers" are used as a nickname for EMP grenades, which would mean that they are neither ion grenades nor do "droid poppers" refer to a specific model of EMP grenades. So for that point in particular, I am wrong. Strange. They don't look like EMP grenades at all to me, but sources are sources. Though the "droid poppers" of The Clone Wars certainly seem to at the very least be a different model than the ones employed in Republic Commando and Battlefront. Sol PacificusFirestorm 09:55, October 19, 2016 (UTC)

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