Entertainment
 

Talk:Fan criticism of George Lucas

From Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki.

This is the talk page for the article "Fan criticism of George Lucas."

This space is used for discussion relating to changes to the article, not for a discussion about the topic in question. Please remember to stay civil and sign all of your comments with four tildes (~~~~). Click here to start a new topic.

This talk page has archives.
Lucas bashing


This article was put in the trash compactor on March 9, 2008. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

Contents

[edit] History

  • 20:57, January 5, 2006 Astroview120mm
  • 22:24, January 4, 2006 Astroview120mm
  • 22:23, January 4, 2006 Astroview120mm
  • 14:42, January 4, 2006 Joewithajay m
  • 19:33, January 3, 2006 216.75.2.64 (→Lucas' "Grand Plan")
  • 01:42, January 2, 2006 71.255.80.143 (→Jar Jar Binks)
  • 01:33, January 2, 2006 71.255.80.143 (→Jar Jar Binks)
  • 01:31, January 2, 2006 71.255.80.143 (→Intellectual Marginalisation of Crew and Actors)
  • 01:30, January 2, 2006 71.255.80.143 (→Intellectual Marginalisation of Crew and Actors)
  • 18:18, December 31, 2005 64.229.115.16 (→Lucas' "Grand Plan")
  • 07:31, December 31, 2005 Leithp (rm note, POV template covers that)
  • 05:43, December 31, 2005 68.199.131.50 (→Aspects of Lucas' work targetted by critics)
  • 05:40, December 31, 2005 Leithp (replaced anon's warnings with POV tag, works better)
  • 05:37, December 31, 2005 68.199.131.50 (→Jar Jar Binks)
  • 05:30, December 31, 2005 68.199.131.50 (→Ewoks)
  • 13:36, December 30, 2005 The Wookieepedian (→Episode I)
  • 01:41, December 29, 2005 CanadianCaesar (cat)
  • 19:36, December 25, 2005 85.138.138.12 (→Lucas' "Grand Plan")
  • 15:05, December 25, 2005 68.47.60.32 (→Episode I)
  • 01:51, December 24, 2005 216.197.167.139 (→Revisionism)
  • 03:23, December 23, 2005 68.70.34.33 (→Jar Jar Binks)
  • 10:00, December 21, 2005 86.129.29.49 (→Personal Vilification)
  • 07:56, December 20, 2005 172.202.50.146 (→Personal Vilification)
  • 07:51, December 20, 2005 172.202.50.146 (→Jar Jar Binks)
  • 07:50, December 20, 2005 172.202.50.146 (→Intellectual Marginalisation of Crew and Actors)
  • 07:48, December 20, 2005 172.202.50.146 (→Intellectual Marginalisation of Crew and Actors)
  • 07:48, December 20, 2005 Everyking m (→CGI)
  • 07:47, December 20, 2005 172.202.50.146 (→CGI)
  • 07:46, December 20, 2005 172.202.50.146 (→CGI)
  • 07:45, December 20, 2005 172.202.50.146 (→Episode I)
  • 07:45, December 20, 2005 172.202.50.146 (→Special Editions)
  • 07:44, December 20, 2005 172.202.50.146 (→Ewoks)
  • 07:44, December 20, 2005 172.202.50.146 (→Ewoks)
  • 23:40, December 19, 2005 Mattisgoo m (list formatting (no text changes))
  • 07:17, December 19, 2005 PacifistPrime (→Whimsical creatures)
  • 17:01, December 18, 2005 86.139.69.21 (→Personal Vilification)
  • 21:59, December 17, 2005 144.136.77.98 (→Whimsical creatures)
  • 21:58, December 17, 2005 144.136.77.98 (→Whimsical creatures)
  • 21:57, December 17, 2005 144.136.77.98 (→Authoritarianism)
  • 21:53, December 17, 2005 144.136.77.98 (→Lucas' "Grand Plan")
  • 21:52, December 17, 2005 144.136.77.98 (→Lucas' "Grand Plan")
  • 21:48, December 17, 2005 144.136.77.98 (→Revisionism)
  • 08:22, December 17, 2005 The Wookieepedian (→CGI - fixed links)
  • 07:42, December 17, 2005 220.239.53.31 (→Aspects of Lucas' work targetted by critics)
  • 07:39, December 17, 2005 220.239.53.31
  • 19:46, December 16, 2005 Mattisgoo (Moved content from Lucas bashing into this article.)
  • 14:07, December 15, 2005 Borisblue (forked properly this time)
  • 14:06, December 15, 2005 Borisblue (moved Fan criticism of George Lucas to Lucas bashing: talk page discussions)

[edit] UK Criticisms

  • Could we add the common criticsm of Star Wars in the UK that in the original trilogy "good guys" had american accents, whilst "bad guys" had english accents. This was even used to the extent that Denis Lawson, the scots actor who played Wedge put on an American Accent. In ANH the only rebel characters with English accents are Obi Wan and C-3PO. This is a usual criticism in the UK of Lucas. Is it worth adding?

Thom32

[edit] Required?

  • This page just seems like a big whinge to me. Where's the "Fan criticism of Timothy Zahn" or "George Lucas criticism of fans". I just don't think its needed. QuentinGeorge 21:07, 6 Jan 2006 (UTC)
    • I'd like to add that we could also have those, and still present them in a NPOV manner, though this article needs work now. -- Riffsyphon1024 04:56, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
  • I agree. Let other websites waste their time & webspace on this. I don't see what a SW encyclopaedia should do with it. --Sompeetalay 23:05, 6 Jan 2006 (UTC)
  • Give the article the axe, I say. Ace Venom 01:06, 7 Jan 2006 (UTC)
    • Well those Wikipedians did put alot of work into it, and it can be made NPOV with work. -- Riffsyphon1024 05:11, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
  • I vote keep. Thanos6 03:48, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
    • So do I. Perhaps especially because this is a Star Wars encylopedia, I think it's important to show both sides of an issue. Kuralyov 19:31, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Wookieepedia covers real-world reaction to Star Wars, so this article belongs here. Red XIV 21:47, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
  • I dont like this article.:(Sith-venator5;06PM9-23-08

[edit] cleanup removed

I thoroughly checked and edited the article. It was written in British English, which I changed to American English, as well as making some other minor changes. - TopAce 13:38, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

It was written in British English, which I changed to American English... why? —Unsigned comment by 136.8.152.13 (talk • contribs).

Ok fair enough - I had Wikipedia's rules in mind & assumed Wookieepedia's would be the same. I suppose I should have known better - only the bad guys use British English in SW ;-) —Unsigned comment by 136.8.152.13 (talk • contribs).

[edit] What about midichlorians?

You mention Jar Jar Binks, Hayden Christiansen's ghost, and "Han Shot First" but what about midichlorians? I have heard at least as much fan criticism for Lucas' "demystifying" the Force as I have for most of the aforementioned. Perhaps a section or at least a mention of fan criticisms of this theory belong in this article... —Unsigned comment by 192.234.16.2 (talk • contribs).

  • This Unsigned person might have a point. I seem to remember some writer of WotC D20 RPG saying something like "The rules for Force will NOT include midichlorians, I don't like the idea, I will not write rules for midichlorians". Unfortunately, I don't remember the source for this (Nevertheless, there are no midichlorians in the D20 RPG).--Skippy Farlstendoiro 16:11, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
  • To quote Timothy Zahn: " I do not like the midi-chlorian idea at all. I hope that it will maybe be dropped. It sounds like an attempt to make a scientific basis for something that really was more mystical to begin with. I'm not sure of the purpose of it. Maybe it'll show up later on as being important. But the idea that you can scan for a Jedi with a blood test bothers me for some reason. I've always thought of the Force as more like a talented art, that is something that "if you've got it, you know it and you can develop it," but it's not something that you can look at a person and say "okay, he's got that talent," just cold. -- Frank V Bonura - The Bane of Revisionism 12:53, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] An "obvious" solution the the Leia remembering her mother problem.

Doubt that Padmé was to die as early as she did. In Return of the Jedi, Leia states she has memories of her mother, yet in Revenge of the Sith it is shown that she dies in childbirth. In Episode III, however, Luke is crying at birth yet Leia is calm and observant, which may explain this and also why Luke does not remember his mother.

I don't usually do the wiki contribution thing just because I usually lack information relative to what is already available, and in truth this is still the case. However, in regards to the quote above I would like to point out what I took to be "obvious" from the onset, so I'll point it out and if there is evidence to the contrary, then it can be ignored. If I'm breaking some taboo of wiki then don't kill me. Also, I tend to forget to follow-up on internet things, so if this actually debunks the doubts about whether this was planned or not (unlikely), someone please incorporate it wherever necessary.

First, I distinctly remember Leia commenting her mother was "always sad." It is improbably that she remembers her mother having just been born. It is nigh impossible that she would consider her "always sad" from the one experience. Not only that, you couldn't convince me that anyone would or could remember the moments after birth. This adds a great deal of credibility to the above criticism as always sad would certainly have suited how Padmé would have been had she lived.

Secondly, it's generally accepted that girls are, generally speaking, able to remember earlier parts of childhood than boys are. This would also add credibility to the above quote, as if you were to assume Padmé originally lived until, say, age two (of the children), then Leia would stand a better chance of remembering her.

More importantly, though, Leia was raised as a daughter by a couple ( I don't remember their names ^.^'). Luke was raised as a nephew by his aunt and uncle. I always assumed that Leia remember her foster mother where as Luke had no foster mother to remember. This hinges on the assumption that Leia's foster mother died in Leia's youth, which could very well be false and in fact this information is probably available.

So, in summary, if Leia's foster mother dies in Leia's early childhood, there is no discrepancy. However, if Leia's mother lives longer than that, then Leia would either remember her more clearly or be aware that she (the memory she has) is not of her real mother. Which would mean that the first two points are just more fuel on the fire!--Unsigned comment

  • Although it is a well-presented theory, and in fact similar to my own opinion even after RotS, unfortunately it is debunked. Official sources have confirmed that RotJ Leia has some memories of Padmé, and Leia was talking about Padmé at the Ewok village.--Skippy Farlstendoiro 11:09, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
  • In "The Return of the Jedi" on Endor, Leia sees Luke contemplating and speaks with him in private. Luke asks Leia, "Leia... do you remember your mother? Your real mother?" Leia responds, "Just a little bit. She died when I was very young." Does "very young" mean the same as "died at birth"?
  • Leia also tells Luke when asked what little she remembers, "Just...images, really. Feelings". When Luke insists to know more Leia adds, "She was very beautiful. Kind, but...sad." Does this sound like the memories of a force sensitive infant born prematurely (the twins were premies according to Episode 3)?
  • Luke, at this point in time, is a fully trained Jedi, with full control of the force, the stronger in the force when compared to untrained Leia. If Leia was stronger, she would have been trained and sent after Vader but was not. Leia was kept in reserve to provide a new generation of Jedi if Luke failed to defeat Vader and the Emperor. In spite of these facts, Luke confesses, "I have no memory of my mother. I never knew her."
  • In spite of this, in Episode 3, Amidala dies shortly after childbirth and after naming the twins. The prematurely born twins had all of 5 minutes of exposure to their mother in Episode 3. How then can there be such a radical difference in Luke and Leia's memories in "The Return of the Jedi"? How is this so If Luke is the stronger in the force yet Leia has memories and Luke does not? Does this suggest there was originally a very different back story to the lives of Luke and Leia in the Old Trilogy? Do the statements of "The Return of the Jedi" suggest Leia's mother spent more time with Leia and almost none with Luke? Do the statements of "The Return of the Jedi" suggest Luke was separated from his mother at birth and Leia was not? Do the statements of "The Return of the Jedi" suggest Luke and Leia's mother lived on for some time after the birth? -- Frank V Bonura - The Bane of Revisionism 13:02, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia rules and other crap

I don't fully understand Wookieepedia's rules, unlike Wikipedia proper's which are cyrstal clear. Anyway, this article violates almost all of Wikipedia proper's rules and I don't know how these could be tolerated here: Lack of references, POVs, ORs, despite an attempt to keep some neutrality by weasel words ('some fans think...', 'is believed by some...', 'some argue that...'); well, who are those 'some'? How can I know that the author of those phrases is not talking about himself? How can I know he is not delusively thinking he is one of 'some' others?

Of course Wikipedia's rules and restrictions have been a pain in the donkey and I understand that Wookieepedia is a site written by fans for fans and doesn't claim to be a scholarly reference to impose such restrictions. And no, I won't request a deletion since I think it's really interesting and useful. But can those weasel words can somehow be fixed? MoffRebus 10:47, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

I think this page has some big problems with non-neutral points of view and speculation.

[edit] Expanded Universe Authors

Are there any known EU writers that criticize the decisions that Lucas has made in regards to the Prequels, changes made to the OT, etc.? I'm curious, since it seems most of the people involved with the EU seem to love & praise the Prequel Trilogy. 64.180.93.200 02:58, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

  • Karen Traviss has been known to criticize aspects of Star Wars as a whole such as the portrayal of violence, but I can't think of any EU authors specifically coming down on the prequels. -Milo Fett[Comlink] 01:34, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
Retrieved from "http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Fan_criticism_of_George_Lucas"