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This is the talk page for the article "Grand Plan."

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Why? Edit

Does this page even need to exist? I would think that the Rule of Two page pretty much covers this. Or if you disagree with that, then this should probably just be a sub-section of that page instead of just having a stub here. -- DigiFluid 20:53, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

  • What makes you think that they are the same? --144.173.5.197 11:02, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
Perhaps because the "Grand Plan" is the solitary goal driving the very existence of the Rule of Two?DigiFluid 18:26, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
You are correct that they do appear to be inter-related. However, the Rule of Two appears to be the general guiding principle for Bane's Sith Order, whereas the Grand Plan seems to be more specific, in the sense that it is the Sith's specific plan for gaining control of the galaxy. So there are differences between them and unless one of the sources/appearances actually states that that they are the same, I don't see how you can just make that assumption. Wookieepedia is not the place for speculation. --144.173.5.197 10:33, February 4, 2012 (UTC)
Furthermore, the Grand Plan is elucidated on at length in the Order of the Sith Lords article. So I continue to press--why is this even a separate article?DigiFluid 00:56, February 7, 2012 (UTC)
  • Going off on what the Anon stated above, the Grand Plan came into existence because of the Rule of Two, but there is a difference between them. The Rule of Two is—as we all know by now—the principle that allows only two Sith Lords to exist at any time. The Grand Plan is the process (or map, blueprint, etc.) that said Sith Lords followed so that they could return their Order back to dominance. It covered certain things like San Hill's appointment as Chairman of the InterGalactic Banking Clan; Nute Gunray's rise to leadership of the Trade Federation; the creation of the clone troopers; the Invasion of Naboo; Palpatine's election as Supreme Chancellor; the instigation of the Clone Wars; all the way down to Order 66 and the rise of the Galactic Empire. JRT2010 03:01, February 7, 2012 (UTC)
    • See my comment above from last night re: this already being discussed at length by the Order of the Sith Lords page. – DigiFluid 13:31, February 7, 2012 (UTC)
      • Nothing in the rules—at least that I'm aware of—that says articles like 'Grand Plan' can't exist because another article covers a lot of its information. The only reason I went into length about the Grand Plan on Order of the Sith Lords is because it's an integral part of their history; the culmination of a millennium of planning. But there's a lot more information about the Grand Plan than what's on the 'Order of the Sith Lords.' I simply covered the main points of the Plan on that article. Later, I plan to include the details of the Plan on this article. JRT2010 22:20, February 7, 2012 (UTC)
  • Digifluid, if you truly believe that this should be deleted, why don't you create a trash compactor thread for it? It is better that the community as a whole decides this issue, rather than just individual users. --144.173.5.197 14:11, February 8, 2012 (UTC)
    • My initial objections came from this being a useless stub when it was already covered in other articles. But browsing through said article sections last night got the Eventualist half of my brain stewing on what could be a reasonable future for this article. Let me stew on it a while longer, I'll come back with some fresh thoughts on directions in which we might be able to proceed to make this a worthwhile addition to the 'pedia. – DigiFluid 16:29, February 8, 2012 (UTC)

Moving forward Edit

In order for this article to move forward and be expanded properly, I think we need to come to an agreed-upon understanding of what the Grand Plan involves.

We have in the article now, the (correct) statement that it involves the overall plot to dismantle the Republic and exterminate the Jedi. But I think it might help if we can try to frame that along some specific tracks so that, in the long run, the article doesn't just end up as a hodgepodge of random 'Sith does bad things to Jedi' mess of random trivia.

To that end, I suggest that it may be a good idea when expanding the page, to think in the terms we might've done when writing a high school history essay: political, economic, social.

The political clout is certainly at its most obvious regarding Palpatine, but doubtless there are other instances of political persuasion. Plagueis' behind-the-scenes work in assuring the Trade Federation's place in the Senate for example; and how in the long run that aided in the Sith's efforts to destabilize the Republic as a whole. The old, point-proof-explain approach, as it were.

Likewise in the other two trains of thought, social and economic. Though putting the Trade Federation into the Senate was a political move, the preceding and following struggles in taxations for Rim worlds (as discussed in Darth Plagueis might instead be using economy to destabilize.

And with a thousand years of Rule of Two to draw on, I think we've got some interesting work ahead of us on here! Our knowledge of the Sith from Bane to Sidious has expanded a lot in the last few years, and hopefully will continue on this path.

The one thing that concerns me though is the potential for us to interpret, and thereby possibly shape the overall understanding of the Grand Plan. Which, of course, is not our place as Wookieepedians. I think we need to be very cautious that this doesn't turn into a big piece of fan interpretation.

All who are interested in being a part of this expansion, please, weigh in =)

DigiFluid 16:46, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

  • For starters, the article's main body could begin with how the Grand Plan was originally envisioned by Darth Plagueis, prior to the alterations that he and Sidious made to its overall design. For example, the clone army was going to be based on a Yinchorri template. After their growth was completed, Plagueis intended to use the clones against the Jedi. Later, he was persuaded by the Kaminoans that a Human template would be easier to clone. Palpatine also convinced him that the Plan would better serve the Sith's purpose if the army fought for the Jedi rather than against them, hence making Order 66 possible. Also, I don't think you have to worry about "interpretations." The Grand Plan, as described by Plagueis and Sidious, is pretty clear, for the most part. Just go by what the book says. JRT2010 08:06, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
Sure, yep. What concerns me though is the pre-Plagueis material. The Plan concerns tearing down the Republic and destroying the Jedi Order–goals originally laid out by Darth Bane. So, while not named the Grand Plan in text until Darth Plagueis, the Plan is already a thousand years old at this point. My concern is with the possibility of conjecture and conclusion-drawing. – DigiFluid 00:43, February 13, 2012 (UTC)
I'd love to help - I do think there should be some form of a list of known events, deaths, battles, etc. that were set in direct motion by the Sith Order. Darth Plagueis (the book) would supply most of these... but I do agree, it should only consist of facts and direct results of their actions. Examples would be the blockade of Naboo, Palpatine's election as Chancellor, the Eriadu incident, and the creation of the clone army (for starters). --Cade1 19:01, March 7, 2012 (UTC)

Current expansion Edit

Anybody watching might've noticed that I wrote a few sections up for this tonight. I hope they're up to snuff, but I invite everyone to please copy-edit and weigh in. This is a collaborate effort, after all. And it's nearly 230am here, my eyes are a little blurry ;)

Extra sections I plan to tackle in the next few days (or if someone would like to claim one or several I can step back and just copy-edit when you're done):

  • Origins -- talk about Bane's reasons for destroying the Brotherhood and establishing the Rule of Two and the Plan
  • Rise of the economic cartels -- Expound on information from Darth Plagueis concerning his manipulation of the TF, IGBC, and so forth, and how it inflamed both Core/Rim conflict and the sentiments of separatism. Slide this one in prior to the Stark section
  • Secret army/Clone Wars -- Should be a given....mention some stuff about manipulating Sifo-Dyas into creating the army near the end of Darth Plagueis, as well as the Palps/Dooku relationship in running the war and how it serves the Sith ends
  • Order 66 -- Well, duh. This is a given, and since it's one of the two endgames of the plan, I think it deserves its own elaboration
  • Declaration of a New Order -- Same reasoning as Order 66

DigiFluid 06:25, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

Stark Hyperspace War Edit

I don't understand how the Sith were involved in the Stark Hyperspace War?--Mike Gilbert 20:42, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

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