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Talk:Hammerhead-class cruiser

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Contents

[edit] Length

Source for the length? --Fade 23:10, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] CEC

These are listed on the CEC page as their creations. Any source for that? --SparqMan 04:38, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I think it's a speculation because of their appearance. MoffRebus 23:20, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

What the hell, who decided that they were built by RSD? Did some official source say that Rendili built it, or did someone just decide that they liked that better than CEC?

  • Rendili's Inexpugnable-class command ships were built to sell more Hammerhead-class cruisers according to the KOTOR Handbook, so I assume Rendili has something to do with it. VT-16 13:34, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Known Ships

The article has Harbinger and The Endar Spire, but what about Sojourn?

In canon, Sojourn was a Hammerhead-class —Unsigned comment by ATShields934 (talk • contribs).

[edit] length

I think that it would be a good thing to put the length of the "hammerhead" ships, seeng that they are larger than the other "cruiser", that would be like 150 to me... , i think some diggin is needed. I will help if you want. viento(non usser) 7 july 2006 —Unsigned comment by 69.79.179.112 (talk • contribs).

  • Being a "non-user" doesn't relieve you of the necessity to sign posts properly. Any speculation about the length is just that, speculation. The actual length is u-n-k-n-o-w-n. - Sikon [Talk] 05:41, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

I would emagine a minimum of 250 crew members, not including weapons management. —Unsigned comment by ATShields934 (talk • contribs).

[edit] Poorly Armed?

The official Star Wars Databank listing for the Leviathan-type ships (http://www.starwars.com/databank/starship/leviathan/index.html) and the corresponding entry on Wookiepedia (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Leviathan) only lists them as having 4 turbolasers, backed up by a pair of ion cannons and 20 quadlaser batteries. At 6-8 turbolasers a pop, the Republic capital ships would actually seem to surpass the Sith capital ships in heavy firepower (the larger apparent size of the Sith ships likely coming from the gravity well projectors and fighter hangar bays). Sabrel 06:14, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

The reason the interdictor-class is listed as having so few weapons is because the Leviathan is Malak's flagship, therefore it was created with more weapons to ensure his safety. —Unsigned comment by ATShields934 (talk • contribs).

  • Quad laser cannons.....hmmmm.....the cutscene where the Leviathan attacks Taris shows batteries of dual laser cannons. So either someone forgot to list those, or whoever came up with all these ships' statistics had no clue what he was doing. Either way I wouldn't take it too seriously. - lalala_la
  • Though their relative firepower and durablity versus a Interdictor is conjecture, the idea that they're poorly armed conversions is also conjecture. It should be reworded or rewritten unless their relationship in firepower and durability are made clear. Or at least less murky. (22/12/2006) —Unsigned comment by 149.99.237.174 (talk • contribs).

Err, I'd be happy to rewrite the page to a more neutral standpoint. If no one objects... (24/12/2006) —Unsigned comment by 149.99.237.174 (talk • contribs).

  • I see someone disagrees with my six and put it back at seven. Though I don't doubt that that little spindly thing at the top looks like a cannon, we've never seen it fire it either game. To be honest, i'm not even sure it's modeled in the CGI versions of the ship. Still, if you peeps want seven, I'm not going to argue. (26/07/2007)

—Unsigned comment by 149.99.237.174 (talk • contribs).

  • I dont know for sure, but I could have sworn that I saw the top cannon-looking thing firing in the cut-scene when Bastila begins using her battle meditation to aid the Republic Fleet (Light Side character). Three or so Hammerheads close in on the two Interdictors. The central Hammerhead passes by along the right side of the screen. At that moment, it looked to me like the top cannon was firing too. I could be wrong, but thats what it looked like. --(12/03/2007) Sci-fi Junkee
  • That's just my point. Could be seven, but we all at least agree that there are at LEAST six. Lowest possible number and all that. As for dual lasers being called quad lasers, that's in KotOR 2 as well; The Hawk's main guns are refered to in game as quads. So they're probably quads. Even though it's not four. I don't get it either, okay?  :3 (01/04/2007)

—Unsigned comment by 149.99.237.174 (talk • contribs).

[edit] Republic Fleet

If a third of the fleet was destroyed, and another third defected to the Sith, then shouldn't we have seen at least some sizeable amount of Republic forces fielding the same ships as the Sith or vice versa? lalala_la

  • It's done alot to avoid 'confusion' regarding casual observation as to who's fighting who, but I agree it's rather odd that there are no interdictors or ravenger class ships floating around the republic fleet, and no hammerheads or 'Republic Cruisers' in the sith fleets. My opinion would be that the hammerheads and cruisers were built afterwards, but this is just a guess. (22/12/2006) —Unsigned comment by 149.99.237.174 (talk • contribs).
  • Its just speculation on my part, but it seems likely that the Republic would have pulled its remaining heavy warships back to protect the Core, leaving vast fleets of smaller warships to guard the Inner Rim, Expansion region, mid rim, and outer rim from Sith incursion.
  • Although I really, really like this speculation for the reason the republic doesn't use interdictors, this still doesn't explain why the sith/republic traitor fleets don't appear to have Hammerheads/Republic Cruisers. (26/02/2007)

—Unsigned comment by 149.99.237.174 (talk • contribs).

  • I disagree with the second post because in comics during the mandalorian wars Hammerheads are fighting the mandalorians. Although i guess we could say the smaller republic ship was built afterwards. And i disagree with the third post too because after it's destroyed Bastila says the entire republic fleet is destroyed. My speculation is that the remaining Republic heavier warships had been defeated by the sith fleets throughout the war and that the sith fleet defending the star forge was of the heavier ex-republic warships and the ships manufactured by the star forge. The sith's lighter ex-republic ships could have been defending important sith-controlled worlds, but the heavy ships were needed to defend the star forge and attack the republic.Starwarsrulez 21:49, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Damn, you're right, they were in the mandalorian wars too, so much for the new theory. I'm not sure I can really take a shine to your idea that ALL heavier class Republic ships are destroyed though. In truth, poking at this particular oversight to me will always lead to breaking the fourth wall. Maybe the sith are allergic to Red Paint? :3 (01/04/2007)

—Unsigned comment by 149.99.237.174 (talk • contribs).

  • I think that when Bastila says the "entire" republic fleet has been destroyed, shes referring to the fleet that attacked the Star Forge. It would be ridiculous to think that a government that rules (at that time) around a quarter of the galaxy could only field the ddozen-or-so capital ships involved in the assault. Such a small force would never have been able to defend the hundreds of thousands of star systems in the Republic. I like Scifijunkee's theory much better. Its exactly what would happen in a bureaucratic government like the Republic when you think about it. Seeing this massive threat with seemingly endless resources and brilliant leadership (while Revan was in command, anyway), decimating all fleets sent out to stop it, what would a wealthy, influential core-world senator do? The Answer: Everything in his or her power to make sure that they are as safe as possible, which means pulling the heavy guns back closer to Coruscant. It quite plausible that, with the exception of strategically vital worlds like Manaan, only a reltively small force of lighter or older warships would be left to defend "less important" worlds.

[edit] Hammerhead-class capital ship

That name is listed on the Darth Bane: Path of Destruction page. I assume it's in reference to these ships. Can anyone confirm? If it is, nice to finally have a name, albeit a pretty lame one - Kwenn 18:52, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

  • I wouldn't be so sure. Take a look at the Class VI freighter and you'll notice some similarities. Jedi Wolf 12:55, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
    • Hammerhead-class capital ship is indeed a class of ship in PoD. While it is possible the author intended this to be the same type of ship as in KOTOR and KOTOR II, there is no proof of that yet, so for now they are two separate ship types. In-universe, it seems unlikely the same class of ship would be used for 3000 years. Perhaps the Hammerhead in PoD is a DESCENDANT of the KOTOR design.JustinGann 19:06, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
      • Good point, but what I think is that perhaps these capital ships are CEC technology that was upgraded and manufactured by Rendili StarDrive. Jedi Wolf 6:08, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
  • I see Kuralyov decided to move it, but I agree that there's no proof they're the same class. Someone might want to ask Leland Chee, but for now, I think this should stay at Republic capital ship. - Lord Hydronium 06:29, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
  • I actually didn't see this talk section until now. While I agree it's not set in stone, the fact that it's so painfully obvious Karpyshyn took as much as possible for POD direct from KOTOR makes it almost certain it's what he had in mind. Kuralyov 06:32, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
  • I see he wrote most of KOTOR, which pretty much settles it for me. Heard he had alot of other KOTOR-tie-ins in this book, so this is highly likely. And since it's at the end of a long, devastating war that's going bad for the Republic, they would probably field just about anything that could fly. The 3,000 year old Invincible-class in the CSA is also an example of long-lasting quality. VT-16 08:46, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
    • Hrm just wondering....I didn't read PoD, but does it imply whether these guys still front-line combat vessels or just obsolete support craft that have become a rare sight? lalala_la
      • Doesn't really say. They only appear in one scene, during the initial Sith ambush on Ruusan, although at that point Ruusan was out of the front lines and they were acting as a basic garrison. Kuralyov 06:15, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Ewwwww....what an ugly, ugly, awful name lalala_la
    • Well, thanks to Chee's confirmation, that's it now. I agree it's cheesy. I mean, what about all the other hammerheaded designs seen over the millenia? Did CEC's hammerheaded vessels all get numbers or unrelated classnames thanks to this type having dibs on "Hammerhead"? >P VT-16 19:15, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
      • Chee's confirmation? What did I miss? Edit: never mind, it's in the article. - Sikon 19:57, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Era usage

  • Wouldn't be be much simpler and less divisive if the last line in the history section was something more along the lines of "The Hammerhead may be one of longest serving classes of ship in any military, possibly serving for approximately 3,000 years. The wreckage of a Hammerhead-class vessel could be seen on Mustafar as late as 1 ABY, suggesting that they had been in service for thousands of years." It is certainly erroneous to suggest that the wreckage of the Hammerhead on Mustafar confirms that the ship was in service up to that time. For all we know, that particular ship may have crashed as far back as the Jedi Civil War. We have no confirmation of Hammerheads in use anytime after the Battle of Ruusan. It's certainly not impossible that remained in service for a long time after that, but it shouldn't be stated as a fact until theres some kind of real confirmation.


Okay. So now that the page has been locked, can we discuss the issue here? -- SFH 00:55, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

  • Even if the Hammerhead-class served for 4,000 years, it still would have some competition from the Class VI freighter (same period) and the 1,000 years younger Invincible-class dreadnaught. What evidence do we have that the crashed Hammerhead on Mustafar had recently gone down? VT-16 07:27, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
    • That's exactly what I am talking about; just because you see the wreckage of the ship does not mean that it just recently crashed, that's ridiculous. The ship crashed 1,000s of years ago on Mustafar and because it crashed there, it's wreckage is there too. IT ONLY EXISTED IN THE OLD REPUBLIC ERA. I mean if you find wreckage of a WW2 era destroyer washed up along side a beach in present-day Hawaii, it does not mean the ship just recently crashed and is still in service. JUST BECAUSE YOU FIND THE HAMMERHEAD in present-day Mustafar does not mean it existed in that time frame, or as you so persist, the Rise of the Empire era and Rebellion era; that's just not true, not to mention there is no record of any Hammerhead seen outside the Old Republic era. All you are doing Kuralyov is displaying your own point of view which is indeed false. Commander Kalik
      • Doesn't matter; since the Hammerhead is around in that era, we use that era tag on its article. Doesn't matter why it's still around, or how many were still around; the fact remains that it is present in the RotE and Rebellion eras - \\Captain Kwenn// — Ahoy! 20:28, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
  • That's not the point at all; he is saying that this ship has been used for 1,000s of years even though it hasn't. It was a Capital Ship of the Old republic Navy and this is it, it has never served beyond that era and because it has never served beyond that era you DO NOT USE ERA TAGS for eras it has never served. There is wreckage of an AT-TE on Felucia during the Galactic Civil War, but it has a Rise of the Empire era tag like it properly should because that is when it WAS USED. Commander Kalik 20:28, 22 January 2007
    • How do you know it wasn't a recent crash? There's nothing to back up your claim, either. It could easily have survived into the RotE era if it was in use during Bane's lifetime - \\Captain Kwenn// — Ahoy! 20:41, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
      • THERE ARE NO RECORDS OF THE SHIP EVER EXISTING IN A SERVICE OTHER THAN THE OLD REPUBLIC ERA, YOU GUYS ARE MAKING UP STORIES. THERE NEVER WAS A RECENT CRASH; TO PUT THAT OR BELIEVE THAT AND ACTUALLY PUT IT IN AN ARTICLE IS ABSURD. I WAS FAIR, I SAID THAT "ALTHOUGH WRECKAGE APPEARS ON MUSTAFAR AS LATE AS 1ABY, IT IS NOT CONFIRMED WHETHER OR NOT THE SHIP AS EXISTED IN ANY OTHER ERA" BUT NO, YOU HAD TO MAKE A BIG ORDEAL OF THE SITUATION AND PUT CRAP THAT YOU BELIEVE. I'm in medical school, I'm pretty smart and I know a lot about Star Wars, especially one of my favorite ships; to see you butcher its history angers me. Like I said I was fair... Commander Kalik 20:41, 22 January 2007
        • Firstly, calm it down. No one's saying you're not smart, and really, this doesn't have anything to do with being smart. Now, the New Sith Wars ended in 1,000 BBY, and Hammerheads were used during the later stages of that conflict, as per Darth Bane: Path of Destruction. Since that's on the cusp of the RotE era, it's not much of a stretch to believe they remained in use at least until the early years of the RotE era. And since we can't prove either way when the crash occured, we need to use the RotE and Reb era tags to denote its appearance in those eras - \\Captain Kwenn// — Ahoy! 20:52, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Hmm, since the class was used up to the Seventh Battle of Ruusan, and I doubt they would be scrapped immidiately afterwards, then the Hammerhead-class could still be in service at the beginning of the ROTE era, at least. VT-16 20:54, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
    • Yes, that's true and that battle is encompassed in the Old Republic era. Stay on the matter at hand please... We don't know exactly what happened to the ship but we do know it was affiliated with the Old Republic era, this is what you put down in the article, the facts; not what you think or would like to think. Commander Kalik 21:00, 22 January 2007.
      • Sigh. At least one Hammerhead survived up until the Rebellion era, and the era tags reflect this. Take the YT-1300 light freighter, for example; it appears in the Legacy era solely because of one representative model; the Falcon. Since a vessel of its type is still around at that point, it's in that era - \\Captain Kwenn// — Ahoy! 21:03, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
        • Also, please stick to one username, and don't sign your posts with another name - \\Captain Kwenn// — Ahoy! 21:05, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Again, this is not confirmed nor is it true. Honor the damn historic era of this ship because that is what you know; stop making crap up. Remember, I'm in medical school and I'm smart, I'm also a huge star wars fan, I know what I'm talking about. By the way; I am obviously sticking with one username now; why are you telling me this side-crap, STICK WITH THE MATTER AT HAND. Commander Kalik 21:05, 22 January 2007
  • That's enough; you know none of us wanted a fight. Commander Kalik
  • Wreckage is good enough for me. -- SFH 21:35, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
    • Okay, okay; the eras and era tabs can stay. I guess the ship still exists even though it is wreckage. However he is still saying that the ship served for more than 4,000 years, that's not right. Commander Kalik21:40, 22 January 2007.
      • Well we still don't know if it did or not, though I agree that bit isn't entirely accurate. Although it did serve for at least 3,000 years - \\Captain Kwenn// — Ahoy! 21:42, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
  • So if I unlock the page, it there won't be another edit war over its timeline? -- SFH 21:45, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
    • You should mention that it is only wreckage and the actual ship served 1,000s of years ago. Commander Kalik
  • Okay then, it is settled, I forgot about Darth Bane and the New Sith Wars; disregard everything I have said. Commander Kalik

I think your all crazy. Medical School has nothing to do with knowing anything about Star Wars for starters, and the simple fact that you want to keep throwing that out there makes you look stupid. Make your whole argument void since everything is centered on the fact that your in med school. 2nd, you can't prove that when the crash happened, and there is no official record of when the crash happened, and just because there hasn't been any mention of the ship other than this wreckage doesn't mean that the ship isn't still around. Now instead of fighting over how smart someone it, why not try and look at the facts that are laid out in front of you. (Josh - 1/31/07)

  • Well, that was well meaning, but ultimatley volitile. So, can I unlock the page now? -- SFH 01:19, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
    • This argument ended more than a week ago and you could cleary see that when I say "disreegard everything I said." I am basically admitting on the spot that I am wrong and I just mentioned that I was in medical school because I was becoming upset. I agree with the administrator that your comment is a volitile one but we won't take it to that point. The article may remain as is SFH, you may unlock it now. Commander Kalik
      • I also apologize for the fact that I mentioned I was in medical school. I was trying to proove a point but did so in a condescending manner; I am sorry if anyone was offended. Commander Kalik
  • I'm a bit late here, but...I don't think that including the "Rebellion era" tag is justified by canon. Combative as Kalik was about it, he's right that we have no information on when that Hammerhead crashed on Mustafar. It's entirely possible that it went down during the Great Sith War, the Jedi Civil War, the New Sith Wars, or any number of other conflicts or isolated battles occuring long before 1 ABY. And we also don't have any direct canonical proof of Hammerheads in use in the Rise of the Empire era. While they were in use during the Battle of Ruusan, the Republic dismantled its entire military after Ruusan. Granted, it's likely that many Hammerheads ended up in the Judicial Department, but we have no explicit confirmation anywhere so far. Red XIV 09:41, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
    • The Rebellion era is legit as it is seen then (albeit a wreckage), but I dunno if the class of ships themselves were still in use by the Republic, err Empire during that time. DAWUSS 15:32, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Infobox picture

The one we have now is blurry. Surely we can find a better one? - Sikon 04:17, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Crew

Dose Any one No the minnimal crew needed to oporate a Hammerhead-class capital ship User:Kami-Sama

[edit] Upper cannon

In the conversations above (they were old, I didn't want to reactivate them) there was debate as to whether the upper spindly thing was a cannon. It's used as a cannon in KOTOR issue 31 Turnabout. So we should add it to the list of weapons?Taral, Dark Lord of the Sith 16:58, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia continuity issue.

The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia indicates that there are two distinct items listed as "Hammerhead." The first one was a capital ship, not the class of cruiser indicated on this page. I see that the Wizards of the Coast article is cited as a reference for this class of cruiser being a capital ship. We need to clarify, because Hammerhead was the name of a unique capital ship which was used at Ruusan. The CSWE does not state that this class of cruiser was used at Ruusan. — Fiolli {Alpheridies University ComNet} 20:32, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

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