Talk:Jedi Exile/full

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[edit] Image

I think we need an image that a) embellishes that Exile's female and b) obscures her face. Like this one (example, sucks). - Sikon [Talk] 08:23, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Why not have a picture of her wearing a mask from the game?--Dil 10:31, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

• Because it would look horrible, I think. Someone can try it, though. -Sikon [Talk] 11:14, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Do we want similar thing as we have on Jaden Korr? QuentinGeorge 11:15, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
    • yes, but how could we make sure that the figure looks femanine? is it now confirmed that the exile is female yer? Jedi Dude 11:22, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
      • Look up - Kwenn 11:28, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
        • I like that picture, if only becasue it would appear to have the head of my all time favourite version the Exile from all the different times I've played through KotOR II, I think maybe the best way of doing it would be to try and get a pic of the Exile from behind, and then just crop the head off, I'd recommend doing it with Jedi Master robes, they look pretty good. Basically, do the same thing as Jaden Korr. 95 Headhunter 13:17, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
          • I think we should keep regular Jedi robes, simply because that's what Exile wears for the trial flashback. Also, why show her from behind if the head gets cut anyway? - Sikon [Talk] 15:31, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
          • i dont think female exile is the way to go. all the jealousy of handmaiden and visas is gone and the interactions with people from your past make more sense as a male. the game trailer shows the exile as a male, plus the exile "jesus"head is really cool.
            • well thats nice to know anon, but shes a she, its canon. back to the picture, what are we gonna do? theres no point in cropping the head off, it won't look very good, we need to get a Jaden shot. Jedi Dude 16:56, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
              • Just take a random appearance. There is no reason to hide the face; it just makes it look stupid. -MPK

Exile.jpg

Lightsaber remains cyan due to it's the default color Atris has when you do not answer Attons questions. Jedi robes since we know she wore them at the trial.--Redemption 17:33, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

• Last one is the best. - TopAce 17:36, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Then I'm inserting the last image, if anyone objects, they can conduct a vote. - Sikon [Talk] 18:09, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
    • Hey, I don't mean to be negative, all of them are rediculous. The last one looks like someone detonated a firecracker on her face. -MPK
      • wanna do better? =P it'l do for now until we can get better ones. Jedi Dude 18:44, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I suggest these. I'm not joking, we now that she wore this on Peragus. Killik Brain 20:36, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

• Unfortunatly we don't know if the Exile was a white, black, asian, or hispanic woman. --Redemption 20:45, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Face it, the Exile's appearance will probably never be specified by an official source. Just get a screenshot that doesn't hide her face and go with it.-MPK
    • By doing that we'd be declaring that face canon, which would violate the policy. -Redemption 21:40, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
      • In that case, it would be far better to have no image than an image that sucks. -MPK
        • Okay. Go get an image that is so much better then anything shown. Since so far, all you've done is complain without contributing anything useful. --Redemption 21:49, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
          • Just so you know, I don't have to do better to be able to complain. -MPK
            • You didn't need to tell us that for us to know...--Redemption 22:04, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
  • The solution is to desaturate the second underwear image to almost greyscale level just like it was done in the Jaden Korr page and there will be no issues of canonicity. It's not like there are options for obese, ematiated, or one-legged Exile... The model of the Exile is the one shown in the picture, we're 101% sure she wore that while on Peragus (well, didn't wear anything actually), and without color we won't be able to see if she's white, black, blue, or green. That IS the Exile's ass no matter what. --Master Starkeiller 21:41, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
    • Well, that's up to everyone else if they want a desaturated image of the Exiles back or a full color one with the head simply blocked off by her hand or something. Either way is fine by me. -Redemption 21:49, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
      • Yeah, but the desaturated back shot is the only way to deal with issues of racial identity and clothing at a particular time. It's indisputable. The only problem with it would be that it would make Wookieepedia look like a sexist site. --Master Starkeiller 21:53, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
        • • MPK, your not even a member, so you can harly blame us for being sceptical of you, your critisim isn't useful, its just pure complaining. so either suggest how it can be improved, make your own picture or stop moaning. Jedi Dude 22:06, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
            • Actually he is a member. (whom so kindly decided to mock me on his userpage...)--Redemption 22:07, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
        • Anyway, I prefer this one, the third picture in the top row. —Silly Dan _(talk) 22:10, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
        • Umm... I'm sorry, but we're not actually going with an underwear shot, are we? Shall we go ahead and change the pic of Leia Organa Solo to one in her golden bikini? :-) For what it's worth, I agree with Silly Dan on favourite shot--there's just something hokey about obscuring a person's face with a Force power. -BaronGrackle 22:18, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
          • I agree about the obscurings: they're too obvious and silly. The underwear shots are subtle and I like the angle. The only problem...she's in her knickers. Something like this with clothes would be great. Bookwormdarlin 06:09, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

• Why don't we get a pic of the Exile in the spacesuit while walking outside Peragus? MoffRebus 08:48, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
  • That'd be goofy. Master Starkeiller^talk
    • Well, it would have to be something that hides her completely, since we don't know her skin color or hairdo or eye color or... Maybe we could go for a Jaden-solution like they did in Jaden Korr. KEJ 09:45, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
      • If I may make a suggestion, why don't we find a picture that shows various possible faces for the Exile? 11:42, 29 June 2006
• because we don't want mutiple shots? they'd take up alot of room we really do need a Jaden Kor type shot, that eliminates the custom elements of the exile but shows what we do know, the blue blade and the robes from the flashback. And that pic with the force thng does look dodgy im agreeing on that. Jedi Dude 17:00, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
  • • In reading this debate I am starting to realize the real value in Bioware clothing Revan in full helmet and all conceling cloak. BHRamsay

[edit] Easter egg?

An easter egg exists when using the random name generator where the name Lann Darth is available.

Could anyone explain why this is an easter egg? "Darth" as a last name may be peculiar, but I'd hardly go so far as to call that an easter egg. Is the name supposed to resemble a better known one? 82.92.119.11 14:54, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

lawn dart? 202.137.25.70 07:10, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Canon Male

Who keeps changing the whole article up to a female? Lightside male is the canon for the jedi exile jeez. Someone should clean the thread up later. —Unsigned comment by MasterHorn (talk • contribs).

• You really haven't been paying attention to the "thread" up there, haven't you? -- SFH 04:01, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
• Dude, have you not been following the events of the last few days? Or are you just being obtuse? Look a little ways up the talk page, or buy a copy of The New Essential Guide to Droids. They changed the Exile from a hero to a heroine. There was a note embedded in the page source which explained this, and you deliberately ignored it. I am required by the terms of that warning to ban you for a week. I've reverted your edits and I suggest you be a little more attentive when you come back. -- Darth Culator 04:05, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
  • I'm confused, could someone explane to me what is going on? Darth Xarcon 12:54, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
    • To put it simply. The Exile is feamle. Jasca Ducato 17:57, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
      • Realy? Thats strange (at least to me!), because in the game the gender of the Jedi Exile may very. And last time I checked, the game came out before The New Essential Guide to Droids. Darth Xarcon 1:10, 5 July
        • True. But canon is usually the most recent and NEGTD is the more recent one. Unless a comic, book or otherwise declares Exile male, then it's sticking to female. --Redemption 18:15, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
          • Excately, think about it. We don't obey laws set out 5,00 years ago before those set out 5 years ago, do we? Because the NEGD came out after the game, the NEGD sets the canon. As for the game having mutiple choices, thats just game mechanics. In canon, there has to be a set continuity that is followed, otherwise the galaxy will blow up! Jasca Ducato 18:18, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
            • Good point. Darth Xarcon 1:34, 5 July 2006

[edit] why bother about the Picture so much?

Just state that "in the course of time a lot of confusion around the true look of the knight known as "Jedi Exile" has been created, so the approvedly female Jedi often is shown in variying skin colors, looks and even - genders".

Thats meeting the "facts" nearly correctly and even covers the promotional pictures, package design etc... --18:34, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I fail to see a reason why we need a picture at all if it won't show the Exile's face. A picture is supposed to show what a character looks like. By hiding the face, the picture does NOT show what the character looks like, which is what the picture is supposed to do. -MPK

• I have to agree. I get just as much information about this character by looking at a picture of a faceless female body in jedi robes as I would from reading that she is a female jedi. It just doesn't seem necessary; especially considering how much it's being changed and argued over. If the image is illustrating something else relating to the exile, such as a notable encounter, then I'm all for a picture that shows that while obscuring the exile, but the profile picture seems like it's only feeding disputes without providing me any new information. the Ash lad 17:06, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. I would suggest either no picture at all or a picture showing varied possible appearances for the Exile - male and female. 11:44, June 29 2006

• well, your first comment anon with 'genders' is wrong, the exile is female, thats now a fact. A picture is needed, not a picture with several different parts, a normal profle shot, but to do this we need to hide the customised part of the character, in this case the face. (We use the blue lightsaber and robes because of flashback)Jedi Dude 16:55, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
  • What flashback shows that she wore these robes and used this lightsaber while fighting Darth Traya in the Trayus Core? 'Cause if there is such a thing, I might change my vote. Master Starkeiller^talk
    • Well, we know she fought in the Trayus Core. We know at some point she wore Jedi Robes (Jedi Trials flashback) and the lightsaber is just the default lightsaber if you do not answer Attons questions on your lightsaber. --Redemption 20:22, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
      • Is there no part in the game when she's just wearing a face masking hood like Sidious? This would be best IMO --Sauron18 16:40 30 June 2006 (CDT)
      • Well, my objection is that we don't know about what she wore while on Malachor and the picture shows her wearing Jedi robes on Malachor while for all we know she could be wearing a kimono and gym shoes. That's why I voted for a Peragus underwear picture. Master Starkeiller^talk
        • as redemption said, there are circumstances in the game where we see perhaps, a big perhaps what the exiles robes/saber color is. thats what we need, i know its a big perhaps but its better than having a strange pic...or a underwear pic. not agreeing with ppl saying its wrong and stuff, i just don't think for an article this importent its enuff. tis all Jedi Dude 23:16, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Well these pages have sported Modded pictures before,usually attributed as such, just find a mod that give you a face conceling robe, not unlike the one Kreia wears for most of the game. As for Saber colour Such things will be solved in time, eventually a canon class and colour were found for Revan so this will be dealt with as well. I prefer Yellow (Sentinel). It's a good short term choice to settle on since they have the greatest amount of skills, and thus ability to exploit some of the game's deeper secrets. IMOHO.-- BHRamsay 11:17, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
    • It doesn't matter. We can't just "assume" the Exile was a Jedi Sentinel. The Exile thats the main picture now is just the default Jedi Exile. --Redemption 11:39, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
      • While the CSG ranks are (now) canonical, their correspondence to lightsaber colors isn't. Exile's lightsaber color means nothing. - Sikon [Talk] 12:06, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't think we need to bother with worrying what the Exile's class is, since it's just a game element. -MPK 18:17, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

• • • • • What does the exact opposite of the model LFL used for publicity?? In other words, the promotional male exile is in the game, which is his opposite? The female version of that one? --Sauron18 15:12 01 July 2006 (CDT)
          • Male Promotional is skin PMHC01A. PFC01A is actually, the female head blocked off in the screens I took. Brown poneytail, funny looking face. Of course I don't think that holds much. --Redemption 22:57, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
            • True, but that would be the best guess we really have. --Sauron18 18:08 01 July 2006 (CDT)
              • Is this the one which is the counterpart of the promotional male?

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/5623/fexy5ma.jpg

If not, could you look here[1] and show me which it is? --Sauron18 07:17, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

• For what it's worth, the manual uses three female heads, most of them this one (the only one used in an in-game closeup of the Exile). There's one instance of this and two of this. - Lord Hydronium 07:38, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
  • WARN about BMPs, for sanity's sake! Or save them in normal formats. - Sikon [Talk] 09:30, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
    • Sorry; those aren't my images, but the ones linked above. I wasn't even paying attention to the format. - Lord Hydronium 09:49, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
• Why don't we post all the faces here and have a vote, like we did with the faceless images? Worrying about covering the head is pointless IMO DAWUSS 23:55, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Because I already took care of covering the face. =P --Redemption 00:04, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] HOLD ON!!!

Everyone is going on about how the Exile is now female. But if i remember correctly we previously had an arguement on this page regarding whether or not we sould add Sith to the infobox. Part of the evidence to support this was a link to a post on the starwars.com forums by Leland Chee;

"...Holo-cron and crew hadn't made the decision on which ending/gender was canonly correct. I just wanted to know Vips, do we know yet?

Not yet.

While an Exile gender determination is imminent, there hasn't yet been a call to determine which ending is to be considered canon."

This was posted on the 21st February 2006. Now my question is, was the New Essential to Droids printed before, or after the 21st? Because if it was printed before then i'm sorry, but we can't consider the Exile female! Jasca Ducato 09:20, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

• We've known that the official gender chosen would be female since around April (I think Chee said it), but until it was canonized on print we wouldn't do it. Either way, the NEGD was released June 27, Tuesday. --Sauron18 04:34 02 July 2006 (CDT)
• Does it matter? Only the release date does. - Sikon [Talk] 09:37, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
  • What? Anyways, it's official, that was the point, so this point has essentially been adressed.--Sauron18 04:40 02 July 2006 (CDT)
• The point is Sauron that, if it had been printed before 21 February then we would still have to consider the Exile male. Jasca Ducato 17:05, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
  • And my point is, February was a very long time ago, both the book and the decision to make it female were "recent" in comparisson, that's all I was saying. --Sauron18 12:15 02 July 2006 (CDT)
  • No, Jasca Ducato, we wouldn't. Because Leland Chee's comment is just that, a comment, and the NEGD is an official source. Also there's no way Exile's gender would sneak in without Lucasfilm's approval. - Sikon [Talk] 17:17, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
• Do you even pay attention to what other people say? Jasca Ducato 18:20, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
  • It doesn't matter anyway, since NEGD was released AFTER that statement. So said statement is now nullified. Besides, I believe whichever VIP it was who was campaigning for the Female Exile thing noted, a coupla months ago, that the gender would be set in a forthcoming publication - Kwenn 18:25, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Categories

Where did the article categories go?? MoffRebus 15:21, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

• What do you mean? They're still there. - Sikon [Talk] 15:38, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Companions

Now that the Exile's gender and alignment has (finally) been canonized, who are her real companions? We know that Hanharr is definitely not, but what about Brianna/Mical? Does this mean that the Handmaiden simply didn't go with the Exile? This is really only an in-game device, but still...maybe the Companions Templete should be changed.—Unsigned comment by Bredd13 (talk • contribs).

• I wouldn't be surprised if the storyline is retconned in the future in order to make Brianna a member of the Ebon Hawk's crew since her presence does not actually cause any continuity problems and she is rather popular. But for now, I guess that she officially played no significant role in the Exile's campaign...--Sentry ^[Talk] 22:10, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
• I still treat her as that same somewhat interesting, mostly useless until you Jedi-ize her, lovestruck ho she always was.SithPower 01:24, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Canon Ending

Has Leeland Chee determined anything about a Canon ending for KOTOR II. just wondering

• Nope. Though NETD suggests LS. Considering Malachor V is destroyed and the Exile is referred to as a heroine. --Redemption 21:16, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
• I think it'll be LS, plus it'll be easier to explain places like Dantooine which are supposed to remain dead in DS ending, not to mention the state of Telos the time we see it after K2 DAWUSS 21:19, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why the crap is the Jedi Exile a female

Seriously, what were they thinking when making the Jedi Exile canon.

• I could ask "Why shouldn't she be female?", but the talk page is not meant for that kind of discussion. Charlii 20:26, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
  • talk pages aren't meant for this kind of thing, and to be honest your sexist crap isn't needed anywhere, talk page or discussion boards. Jedi Dude 20:34, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
    • Don't even bother asking why. Not only do most people here think it was a good change (myself NOT included), but they aren't going to change it back, unfortunately enough. So there's no reason to complain here. (To answer your question, no I do not know what they were thinking) MPK 02:41, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
      • According to LFL, the Exile is female. Get over it already. StarNeptune^{Talk to me!} 02:46, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
        • JediDude, do not call me a sexist! I'm serious! I hate it when some kid over the net acuses you of being something.
          • Please, this is not a forum, whether you get it/like it or not is irrelevant to the article. If you want to voice your opinion that's what a forum is for. --Sauron18 01:16, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
            • Dude, you just repeated what everyone else said.
              • Yes, because you hadn't listened. --Sauron18 01:56, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vote for picture

[edit] Obscured by a rock

[edit] Obscured by a lightsaber

[edit] Obscured by a lightsaber (2)

1. Ozzel 06:52, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
2. BaronGrackle 09:50, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
3. QuentinGeorge 09:58, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
4. As long as it's not a pic of her in her undies... StarNeptune^{Talk to me!} 10:04, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
5. Conceals her skin color, eye color, hair color etc. which have not been canonically established yet... and it's a damn nice image full of action, just the way we like it. KEJ 10:25, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
6. —Silly Dan _(talk) 12:13, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
7. Shinin 12:19, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
8. Though I woulda been fine with the first lightsaber obscuring also. —Jaymach Ral'Tir (talk) 12:35, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

1. 70.71.202.54 00:58, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Obscured by a Force power

1. Sikon [Talk] 06:30, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
2. I take it we're assuming that the Exile wore these robes as well now. Jasca Ducato 08:47, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
3. Snoop 18:35, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Underwear 1

1. I'd vote for either of these, or even for a picture of her in any clothes from the face down. I just don't like having her face clouded by some Force bubble or whatever. Kuralyov 06:39, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
2. yep, agree, but this one is better ]:-> SkywalkerPL 10:53, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Underwear 2

1. Though I think we should remove some color. Master Starkeiller 08:44, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] If female Exile is canoned...

Will this article start refering to her as the canon female, like the Revan article does with the canon male preferance? And what art work will be used in the photo?

• Sure, why not. Jasca Ducato 18:16, 7 Sep 2005 (UTC)
  • Yes it will (I'll take care of that :)). However, Obsidian's promotional picture will probably be left, as it's the only known image of the Exile. - Sikon 17:01, 8 Sep 2005 (UTC)
    • I'm sure someone can donate a photo (or in our case, a screenshot) (maybe myself, if no one else wants to) of a possible female Exile, and then we can edit any other article that mentions the Jedi Exile accordingly. - DAWUSS 7:19 PM 30 Jan 2005
    • If the female gender is canonized, then I'd suggest using the female face that they show in the little booklet you get with the game. Whenever they show the user in example screenshots, the face is that of a blond woman.Cull Tremayne 02:28, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

If that's the case, perhaps they should use the name of the female character they use in the booklet: Lysira Naris.

I like lightside male better.

• Erm, ok. Jasca Ducato 19:51, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
  • I kinda like the light side male story also cuz the story line with the Handmaiden and Atris is very interesting. User:24.209.197.137 20:45, 5July 2006 (UTC)

"Can't we just pick light side male by default until it's decided by an official source?" -MPK

• • • • well, apparently its confiermed as canon, hes a female :P we need to sort the article and pic out. Jedi Dude 20:41, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
• Jedi Dude: where at? Randy Starkiller 20:44, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Look at the bottem of this page, apparently its in the New Droids guide. Jedi Dude 20:52, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
    • I'd like confirmation from someone besides an anon before we change anything. - Lord Hydronium 20:57, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
      • well, it looks like hes defoo a she. Jedi Dude 11:22, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

• Well, in the opening , Sion says that the Exile is "one last Jedi who has yet to choose HIS true role in the galaxy." Jedi Striker 22:17, 4 July 2006 (UTC) (actually added by User:24.209.197.137)
  • What opening? - Sikon [Talk] 08:18, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
    • Uh, dude, the opening of the game, where Sion tells, "We have all but destroyed the Jedi Knights. The Old Republic is crippled..." That opening, remember? --User:24.209.197.137, 20:43, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
      • Sion never ever says that. The correct line is "And now you run in search of the Jedi. They are all dead. Save one. And one broken Jedi cannot stop the horror that is to come." If Sion did say that, please give me the location and I'll look it up. Though it will prove fruitless since it might either be that you aren't setting Exile to female or the devs forgot to an extra line where he says "her". They did the samething with Revan. If you set Revan to female, the council scene will still refer to her as a male (though the holograms say different). And take the word "him" lightly, male terms are typically used when a gender isn't specified. Sion isn't going to say "him/her"... --Redemption 00:53, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
        • I believe the user is referring to the trailer, which does indeed refer to the Exile as a male. Here is the video:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=A_ejqgr-7JE&search=KOTOR

Nevertheless, this trailer, like most erroneous promotional material for KOTOR2, is not canon.--Sauron18 01:02, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

• • • • • • Not only that, but it's full of inconsistenties. The heads are all KOTOR I, M4-78 can be seen...and that isn't even Sion's voice. --Redemption 01:05, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Perhaps in retrospect, in the trailer it was the true Sith talking about Revan (either in the past or the present), rather than (supposedly) Sion (though it did not sound the same as in game Sion) talking about the Exile. Being a companion of Revan and the PC of KotOR II, a possible version the Jedi Exile was shown as an example and extension of the general atmosphere of the time. anon 21:14, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

• The trailor also shows men as the exile almost all the time. And when u pic a character the first choice is a man. I personally think that it should remain anonomous. But If it is canonized I think we should listen to what the GAME says, not the opinion of some idiot who wrote a book.
  • Hey, guess what? Exile is female. Books are more canonical than game mechanics. Newer sources override older ones. And I really should give you a cool-off ban for calling Dan Wallace an idiot. -- Darth Culator 01:29, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

• Newer sources override older ones? So what if a book was wrote and they said luke skywalker was a Female and fell to the darkside?? Then that is what is cannon? I don't think so. Flint-007 01:39, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Of course it wouldn't override that, because movies override all things. And the Exile is canonized as female, so we have to except it. One cannot pick and chose their canon, that's movie purism. -- SFH 01:43, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Now you're just being obtuse. Look at the article on Star Wars canon and come back once you understand the difference between C-canon and G-canon. Within the realm of C-canon newer sources generally override older ones, but nothing overrides the movies. And player selectability is a "game mechanic," which isn't canon. Also, cannon go "boom!" -- Darth Culator 01:45, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

• So instead of listening to the source that originaly created the damn character, we listen to what some writer wants it to be. It's the same damn thing as what I wrote above. Flint-007 01:49, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
  • It's not the same thing. If anyone thinks that Obsidian Entertainment or any of its employees are 1/1000th as important as George Lucas, then they have serious delusions of grandeur. Hence the difference between G-canon and C-canon. C-canon gets rewritten on a regular basis, the movies do not. If Obsidian or their fans don't like the Exile being female, that's just too bad. That's the danger of working for Lucasfilm. Game developers don't write the canon, Lucasfilm/Lucas Licensing does. If they wanted the character male, they should have forced the player to be male. As far as Wookieepedia is concerned, The New Essential Guide to Droids has set the policy for us. Any attempts to change the Exile's gender to anything other than female on any article will be considered vandalism and the editor will be banned for up to a week. Attempting to argue the point will be the same as arguing with a brick wall. -- Darth Culator 02:17, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

• First of all that ratio is incorrect because George Lucas didn't write the book. Second, it would be the same thing if bigshot Dan Wallace wrote that Kyle Katarn was a shemale. So would we all beleive that?? No. Flint-007 16:07, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
  • I was using George Lucas as an example of the difference in scale between C-canon and G-canon to illustrate why your first example was dead wrong. I'm not surprised you didn't understand that. Your second example is also wrong because Katarn's gender is cemented in canon by the game storyline, which the Exile's gender wasn't. If the developers wanted the Exile to be male, then that was a pretty stupid decision on their part. The Exile's gender was canonically fixed by the NEGD. No other explanation or justification is required. -- Darth Culator 17:07, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

• She's a she! Thatis it and that's that. And that how it is and the way it is. KEJ 16:11, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

• No, the developers didn't want the exile to have a certain gender. SO WHY DO WE GIVE IT ONE?!?!
  • It's easier to implement in novels in comics that way DAWUSS 21:14, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
    • And we didn't give it one. Look, I'm not happy about giving Jaden/Revan/Exile a canon gender but that's just the way the cookie crumbles. If we just ignored that the book says "heroine" then it'd be like sticking our fingers in our ears and going "LA LA LA LA". Unless another book says that the Exile was male (and it'd need to do so very specifically considering how he is used when gender is unspecified) For now, deal with it. --Redemption 21:15, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Because, and that's the point people constantly miss, it's not the KOTOR II developers who run Star Wars. - Sikon [Talk] 05:11, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
    • • Wait, what book are all of you talking about? The instruction booklet? If so, then that's rediculous 'cause in case you didn't notice, the book for KotOR I had the player as a female named Juhani. Yeah, not very reliable. If you're not, please tell me what you're talking about, 'cause I could've missed something... 168.103.70.82 06:08, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
        • Oh, okay, nevermind. I see. 168.103.70.82 06:11, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Ok I was playing KOTOR II TSL and came here to see what was canon. I personally do not care what gender but I found this. Taken From: http://xbox.gamespy.com/xbox/star-wars-knights-of-the-old-republic-2/534268p1.html as well as KOTOR II TSL

As KOTOR II TSL begins, music begins to play as the LucasArts and Obsidian logos appear, then fade into black. An ominous voice starts a voiceover,

"We have all but destroyed the Jedi Knights,"

"The Old Republic is crippled, they can do nothing to stop us now."

"But there is one thing standing in our way,"

"One last Jedi, who has yet to choose "HIS" true role in the galaxy."

"If "HE" joins us, on the path to darkness,"

"Those who fight alongside "HIM", will follow,"

"But if "HE" takes the path of the Jedi,"

"those that join "HIM" will feel the vengeance of the Dark Side." Darth Aeonz 00:31, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

• • Too bad that doesn't hold much considering thats two years old while NED is only a couple of weeks old. The latest one decides it. Just accept it and get on with your lives. --Redemption 00:43, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
    • Besides, Chris Avellone said well before the game was released that the trailer had nothing to do with the actual game plot, and it was a conscious decision. Therefore, the trailer is non-canon to begin with. He also said that the voice was a temporary voice not used in the game. - Sikon [Talk] 04:01, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Female!

This news made my day DarthMalus 04:22, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Meh. We don't need a female PC for TSL just because the first one was male. Too bad the lack of need doesn't change anything. -MPK

Well, MPK can you start signing your posts right. if you do ~ ~ ~ ~ without the spaces it does it for you. and having a female chracter helps to bring more balance to the canon community + more females may be entiched to start playing games if they know women are having there share of parts to. Jedi Dude 16:57, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

The vast majority of people who play this game are males, that leaves many people ver angry. It's all because of this "women's rights" stuff. What do they want next? The right to vote? —Unsigned comment by Flint-007 (talk • contribs).

• Vast majority? Do you have statistics? Most KOTOR fan fiction writers are female, for all I know. And why do you oppose the women's rights movement? Alert! Alert! We have a sexist here! - Sikon [Talk] 05:06, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
• I don't know where you live, but women have had the right to vote in North America (don't want to speak for other countries) since the early 20th century. o_O StarNeptune^{Talk to me!} 05:14, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Ignoring the trollish comment above, I'm just going to say that people should just deal with it, you don't have a problem with Mara being a female do you? Or Leia? It's no different, except you didn't know what it was in the beginning. --Sauron18 00:59, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

• Personally, I thought that Revan was far more interesting as a woman and the Exile's story made more sense as a man, but unfortunately none of us own those characters and Lucas Licensing has the last word on the subject. I'm just happy that one of them is officially female. There just are't enough strong women in Star Wars...--Sentry ^[Talk] 06:14, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
• Bah, the Exile was male, they just wanted to keep someone happy. Everyone knows it, I don't care what the Essential Droid Guide states, the Exile is male. Some of us wish for a black or asian main character and it doesn't happen.--Lark
• Apparently the idiot who made the New Essential Guide to Droids thought that we need a female main character just because the KOTOR 1 one was male. MPK 02:25, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Sorry, what did you just call Dan Wallace? I didn't quite hear. And if you assume that it was his sole decision, you're fundamentally wrong. - Sikon [Talk] 06:30, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
    • Last time someone did that (a little bit back up this page), I said I should have banned him. We need an explicit policy on that. Insulting authors=bad. Questioning authors or disagreeing with authors=good, but insulting is bad. -- Darth Culator 11:31, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
      • I apologize for saying something you don't agree with. Perhaps I will keep opinions of mine that are not popular with others to myself in the future. -MPK 18:56, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
        • It is LFL's decision, not just one person's, and it's official, whether you like it or not. Criticizing it on a talk page is both useless and inappropriate. And Remember:

"Freedom of the press is not a license to slander." --Sauron18 19:10, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alignment

The Exile is described as a heroine in the NEGTD. Malachor is said to have been destroyed; this only occurs in the light side ending. The canonical ending is, therefore, light side. - Lord Hydronium 09:12, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

• Yea, but the Exile was described as a hero in previous books and look how that turned eout. Look at the archived history of this talk page and you'll see. Jasca Ducato 09:14, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Yes, it turned out that it was confirmed in this book. I fail to see how that negates it. And that doesn't address the Malachor point. - Lord Hydronium 09:15, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
    • Hero can also be used for female beings, and thus causes no problems. The Exile is female and was a light sider. If you attempt to revert the page a further time then you will be breaking the three revert rule and I will be forced to ban you. —Jaymach Ral'Tir (talk) 09:17, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
      • Erm, no i will not be breaking the three revert rule, because my reverts are correct. It doesn't decide whether the Exile was light side or dark side because, as Chee has said, it has yet to be decided and "will not be decided in the near future" (i think that's it). As for Malachor, i don't have a clue what your talking about! Jasca Ducato 09:20, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
      • Jasca, I'm afraid you're incorrect. This clearly establishes the Exile as LS. QuentinGeorge 09:22, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

• There you have it, the Exiles alignment has not been determined. No i would revert it again but seeing as you'd proably ban me for illegal reasons i will not, unless it isn't done soon. Jasca Ducato 09:23, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
  • It was to be decided in the future, as it has now in the New Essential Guide to Droids. You will be breaking the three revert rule and I will ban you, as your edits are based on old, false information. Additionally, the NEGtD states that Malachor V was destroyed...this happens only in the light side ending, as the planet survives in the dark side ending. More proof that the light side ending is correct. As I have said...change it again, and I will ban you. —Jaymach Ral'Tir (talk) 09:25, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
    • Show me a quote saying it was to be decided and i'll relent. But until then... Jasca Ducato 09:26, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
      • The VIP's at that time said "not yet" and that there "hasn't been a call yet". That statement, however, was several months ago, before the New Essential Guide to Droids was published. As it has now been published, and the Exile is called a heroine, she is now a light sider. Try asking the question to the VIP's again, and I guarantee you that they'll say she was light side now. And once more, you have failed to address the Malachor V issue. —Jaymach Ral'Tir (talk) 09:30, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

While I want to see an LS Exile, I think the word "heroine" isn't sufficient. I previously thought that the NEGD proved that Exile was LS by confirming that Malachor V was destroyed - something that only occurs in the LS ending - but now it seems that there's nothing in the book said about its fate, except that it was the place where the HKs destroyed G0-T0. - Sikon [Talk] 09:32, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

• As for the Malachor V issue, if the book supports a LS ending (which doesn't make it canon, seeing as they called the Exile a male in previous books) it would say that. They're not stupid enough to put contradicting infomation in their workings. They're not gointg to call the Exile a hero of the Republic and then say that she wen't on to become DLOS! are they? Jasca Ducato 09:36, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
  • And if what Sikon just said is anything to go by then we cannot hold the book in any contempt whatsoever. Since, if i remember correctly, the HK's engaging G0T0 was removed from the final game, and thus not canon. Jasca Ducato 09:38, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
    • If it's in the book, it's canon. The book itself establishes canon. - Sikon [Talk] 09:41, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Can someone clear up EXACTLY what is said in the NEGtD in regards to information that could indicate alignment? anon 05:10, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Romance

Since this has been canonized should we add a section on her love life like Revan's page. —Unsigned comment by 81.1.110.249 (talk • contribs).

• Love with whom? Atton or Mical? Or maybe neither?

- Sikon [Talk] 11:09, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

• We don't have enough info to determine what is canon but i bet we will when kotor 3 comes out --Dumac 18:08, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
• I think it should have the romance side of when your a male, too. - 70.71.202.54 01:01, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Then go for it. I wrote the Carth romance in the Revan article. Should be fine as long as you state that it's not canon. --Redemption^Talk 01:07, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Quote?

OK, before I even get to the point, I want to say that I do not want to cause a 10,000 line debate about something small like this. I PROMISE this has nothing to do with the gender of the exile because we have seen that 9.9*10^37 times already.

What does anyone think of the quote (from Kreia)

"They look at you and see the death of the Force. I look at you and see the hope for the Force."

Apologies if this quote is slightly incorrect. I don't have the game screen in front of me and am relying on my less than perfect handwriting. I'll update in a day or so with the *perfect* version.

Atarumaster88 18:29, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

• Whoa...way wrong.

--Redemption 00:03, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Gosh darn it! This is not what I am looking for- but I'm going to have to find the exact quote from the game- which means more talking to that old hag. Thanks anyway redemption.

Atarumaster88 14:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

• Actually, the quote you're looking for is from Disciple, and it reads: "And where they look at you and see the death of the Force, I look at you and see hope for all life." - Sikon [Talk] 14:47, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

That's it! Thank you Sikon. Now that that's settled, does anyone think it's a decent quote?

Atarumaster88 16:11, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

• I certainly do. Please don't put your signature on a separate line. - Sikon [Talk] 17:26, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

• No problem. Atarumaster88 17:56, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

• So . . . what should we do now? Do we change the quote? Do we do nothing? What is the will of the community? Atarumaster88 14:57, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

• It's been a few days- I think I shall the change the quote and someone can change it back if the community does not like it. I am taking responsibility for this one. Atarumaster88 15:58, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

• Hmm. Well, the quote was removed by Redemption. I understand three quotes is too many, but I still think Mical's quote is better than either of the two quotes. I don't seem to get much response from the talk page though. Atarumaster88 14:28, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

For a general "catch all", summing up the character, your quote is better as it cuts to the core of what makes the Exile "unique in the GFFA". So what if someone removed it? Just put it up again. Having two quotes at the top just looks ugly, much like with the Revan page.

Having said that, just a quick correction, the actual quote is: "and where they look at you and see the death of the Force, I look at you and see the hope for all life."

Though it could be "Whereas they...", I only remember the last sentence properly... I think. (Ulicus 04:17, 27 July 2006 (UTC))

It's definitely "and they", I'll look at dialog.tlk to see if "the" is present. - Sikon [Talk] 06:03, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

• The quote is in place- there might be a word or two off. My previous mistake was leaving the original two quotes. That problem has been dealt with. Atarumaster88 14:19, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Heh, just read through this entire section properly - looks like Sikon had already corrected the quote. Oops! Sorry guys. I just get a bit over zealous sometimes :) (Ulicus 14:50, 27 July 2006 (UTC))

No big deal. We all make mistakes. Atarumaster88 14:55, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

• Having finally played through the game, I must say I agree this quote fits the best. When I played as a male, though, Visas had this line. Does the Disciple say it if the Exile is female? -BaronGrackle 09:38, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
• Thank you. The quote was my idea. Yes, Disciple says it if the Exile is female. Whenever you get that final "romance" scene toward the end of the game, for a female, Mical says it to the Exile. I played female, but I saw the male version also at that scene and Visas said it to the male Exile. As the female Exile is canon, the quote is attributed to Mical. Atarumaster88 12:59, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Exile as Knight

On Wikipedia, it says the Exile is a Jedi Knight now, not a padawan. Not a big deal, but I thought it could be a quick change. User:24.209.197.137 23:16, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

• she was a padawan...Jedi Dude 17:23, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Well, my friend, I have played the game numerous times and not once does it say anything about the Exile being a Padwan before, during, and after (KOTOR II) the Wars. If you show me specfically in the game where she is a padawan, I'll agree, but for now, Wikipedia says she's a Knight. User:24.209.197.137 22:29, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

It never mentions the Exile previously being a padawan in the game. I don't think that a padawan could have been a general under Revan, anyway. >.>

• I agree with the original poster, the Exile was a Jedi Knight, not a Padawan. In fact the Exile can even make a snarky remark to Kreia when she's condscending to her, and she says not to treat her like some Padawan. Someone needs to change that. Master Kavar 15:48, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Also in fact, part of the Disciple's story is that he wanted to be trained by the Exile, but she went to fight in the Mandalorian Wars and it was therefore impossible. Her being a Padawan at the time would make it even more impossible... if thats, um, possible. -BaronGrackle 01:22, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Amazing

Deleting my text..... Jobe457 14:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

• I can't believe you wasted precious seconds of your life to tell us that. -- SM-716 talk? 17:12, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Yes, it DOES matter what a character's gender is. There has to be a specific canon status, no matter what.MPK 01:38, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
    • Well, it does matter. Some want the Exile to be Male and others want to be female. Realize that I am not the fool Larkin above, please, and thank you. I don't care but the beginning in KOTOR II is specific but this new book makes such a big deal of it... General Larkin 8:16, 19 July 2006 (EST)
    • Actually, it's almost impossible to discern the gender of a character when someone says "him/he/his". True, they could say "Him or her" but that just doesn't sound good or proper. When the gender isn't specified, properly, him/he/his is used in place. The book doesn't "make a big deal" about it. If anyone is making a big deal, it's the people who want Exile to be male. --Redemption^Talk 03:12, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

• Geez. Can we say beating a dead horse? If you need to see every possible angle of the Exile gender discussion, there is plenty of it to go around on this talk page and on the archive. The issue has been pretty much resolved by different users and admins.

Atarumaster88 14:22, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

• What Atarumaster88 said. LA said Exile is canonically female. The books say she's female. If you wanna go and write a story where the Exile is male, go for it. No one's stopping you. Just, for god's sake, shut up and deal with the fact that no one cares. K2 wasn't the best game in the first place... —Unsigned comment by 69.86.175.38 (talk • contribs).
  • If you don't care, it doesn't mean everyone else doesn't. - Sikon [Talk] 02:12, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
    • It was a bad idea, true, but it's also true that there's no reason to debate it any longer. Kinda defeats the purpose of this post, doesn't it? :P MPK 16:37, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
      • Keep in mind that I'm trying to maintain a level, balanced position between "Eixle should be male!" and "Exile is female! WOO!". Being female myself and noticing that women, as characters in games, are either total sluts and stupid, or just terrible characters, I can't help but feel pleased. But that doesn't mean I don't respect game mechanics. The game gives you a choice, and you can go with whatever you wish. It wasn't even very good, compared with K1, so the characters shouldn't even need to be compared.

So Sikon, here's my response: Yes, but why do YOU care? Revan was canonized as male, and I think K1 has the upper hand, here. What more could you WANT? The gaming world is DOMINATED by males. Very RARELY do come across a good female gaming character. Especially in Star Wars. Now I'm not saying that Exile SHOULD be female, because it doesn't matter. It's an RPG. If you want your character to be male, just make him male! If you want your character to be female, just make her female! Stop ranting to the rest of us and trying to modify official canon with your own fanon. It's been said, decided, it's a done deal. But fanart and fanfiction still exist. The game itself still allows you to pick male, doesn't it? Make do with what you have. We know it's not fair that LA is trying to decide the gender of our own characters. But that doesn't mean you have to accept it. Just don't poke the rest of our eyes out by screaming and whining that Exile should be made male. Tough, alright? If you want a good, canon male character, go look at other games, or go over to the Revan page.

• Well, trolling anon, I know I shouldn't respond to this, but just so nobody gets the wrong impression: From what I have seen, and this page shows, Sikon have defended the canonization of the female Exile since day one. Not necessarily because he like it but because canon is canon. He has in no way tried to impose his "personal canon" on anyone. Charlii 18:25, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

• Speaking of ranting . . . (see above)- I think there has been quite enough ranting about issues that are irrelevant to the life or even the greater Star Wars universe. And as far as opinions about the game's quality are concerned, there are far better places to discuss them then on an encylopedia site. <repeats earlier post without retyping it>Atarumaster88 23:30, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Protect this page from ALL users?

Apparently just blocking unregistered or new users isn't doing much to stop the vandalism done to this page. Just shield this article for awhile and save the trouble of having to revert it several hundred times whenever there is a vandal. --Redemption^Talk 22:22, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

• It's tempting, but there are other people who edit this page for good reason. -- SFH 22:23, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Give it a two day warning before closure for people to make finalizations on the article and then shield it then. --Redemption^Talk 22:25, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
    • FWIW, this last stretch of vandalism seemed to be a single person using an open proxy (which I blocked), so it was probably a repeat vandal obsessed with wiki disruption rather than a fanatical belief that the Exile was a guy. —Silly Dan _(talk)
      • And an open page which is controversial among fans is like dangling a piece of meat in front of a starving lion. --Redemption^Talk 22:31, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
        • But if we locked this page, he'd just go on to other pages. —Silly Dan _(talk) 22:34, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
          • Well, it's not just to protect it from vandals. It's a combination of people who honestly think the Exile was a guy and idiotic vandals. We know that the Exile is a prime target. Might as well secure it. --Redemption^Talk 22:36, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
            • • i think to face the truth protecting one page won't help, the vandal will hit elsewhere, the exile page is one of those pages constently being improved, we just have to overlook the negative edits Jedi Dude 22:41, 23 July 2006 (UTC) 22:40, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
                • But really, how much more information are we going to get on the Exile? Perhaps a little something from the comics (once a month) but that's unlikley. --Redemption^Talk 22:42, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
                  • but theres ways to improve an article, no matter what, specially an article revolving around an importent chracter, Jedi Dude 22:46, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
                    • That's why I say give a day or two forewarning before actually shielding it. --Redemption^Talk 22:52, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
                      • • it doesn't work like that, if people right now knew what they wanted to do to improve it they hopefully would, ideas come over time so you can't just expect people to be done with an article already. Plus any new users could be frightened of if they see articles like this blocked, it simply isn't worth the hassle. Jedi Dude 22:58, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
                          • If someone dares to protect this article, I will spam the talkpage with goatse links. (Okay, not really...) - Sikon [Talk] 17:33, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
                            • • so the article got protected? its kinda of weird how the person who did it didn't take our views into account... Jedi Dude 14:14, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
                                • Nah, it's just the anon-protection that has been active for some time. Charlii 15:39, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Disputed Romance

• Okay, I really did look on this talk page before posting that {dispute} tag, but I do not believe there is a canonical base for Atton's romance with the Exile. Sure, it's possible within the scope of the game. It's also possible that the main character makes Atton hate her (or his) guts. It's possible that, in an individual's game, that Atton walked around in his underwear punching enemies like an idiot or never left the Ebon Hawk. So, having just played the game, I do not see where Atton is the one and only romance. If other options- pertaining to Mical- were listed, and the section was classified as non-canonical, I would be suitably mollified. I could have done that myself, but some things deserve to be talked about before being added. Sorry for the length. Atarumaster88 01:23, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Some very important content about this romance around the end of the game was cut and ths unfortunately not canon, but it remains obvious througout the game that Atton's attracted by the Exile, wether she's light or dark. I don't know what you mean by "canonical source" but the game itself makes it very clear. As far as I'm concerned there is nothing to dispute about. Petiflo 10:25, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Yeah the canonicity of the romance isn't something that's disputed. Debated, possibly, but as said above, Atton clearly has a romantic interest in the Exile, and possibly Mical and Sion too. DAWUSS 22:52, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
      • Uh...the only reason why Atton is the only one there is because I never wrote (though I intended to) the Mical and (now) Sion sections...oops. --Redemption^Talk 16:58, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
        • All is well. I just wanted to make sure Atton was not the only romance listed above- with only him listed, I felt it was unclear whether or not the romance was reciprocated or whether he was the only one. Thanks Redemption. Atarumaster88 02:07, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] You are all pathetic.

Personnally, I am disgusted that so many people feel the need to impose a narrow, defined description on a character, whose appeal is largely created by the very vagueness of their identity. The lack of a gender, name, and conoical face for the exile is what allows all players to enjoy her/him equally. The fact that all of you are so obsessed with labelling this character with defined characteristics and then forcing those characteristics upon others, is nothing less than grossly arrogant and self-serving. I feel nothing but the greatest sense of disgust for you people and lament to see you reduced to the level of squabbeling politicians haggeling over details. Also, I find Mr. Chee's role in furthering this conflict deeply embarassing and wish that he would instead lobby to keep the exile genderless for everyone to enjoy accordin to their own desires, like Jaden Korr. I can only pray that in KOTOR 3 the player is allowed through in-game conversations, like with Atton about Revan in the beginning of KOTOR II, to determine what gender the exile truly was. Sion15

• the reason why the gender was made was not to oppress peoples choice but to make the chracter more real in the eyes of many, you assume everyone is happy with using their imaginations, some people like things to be fixed which undermines your whole argument, which itself is as you say pathetic. Jedi Dude 22:46, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
• If there is a KOTOR III, I'm sure you will be allowed to fix Revan and the Exile's gender, and fix whether they were evil or not. All the same, the canon which will be used in further reference books, and therefore part of the main canon, will still have Revan male, the Exile female, and both of them lightsiders. Some ending to the story has to be picked in order to sensibly integrate it into continuity, and the writers can only avoid using pronouns for so long. And two or three years after KOTOR III comes out on PCs, some reference book will set its protagonist as either male or female, and probably set the light side path as the canonical story. Then we can have this argument all over again. —Silly Dan _(talk) 22:52, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
  • i look forward to it =P Jedi Dude 23:01, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
  • How about not? Do you really think they will implement 16 options (and options for KOTOR n)? - Sikon [Talk] 04:33, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
• Jedi Dude, you have no idea what your talking about. I'm saying that everyone has the right to choose their own way of veiwing the open-ended video game characters, and your idea that I'm oppressing others who like defined things is moronic. People who can't use their immaginations don't deserve to be called Star Wars fans, because Star Wars is imaginary in the first place, genius. And I hope Silly Dan is right, but still, from what I've seen, no one writes much about the Jedi Exile anyway.

Sion

• Sion, I completley agree with you that it's a stupid move of Leeland Chan and the NEGD to make a canon Exile and Revan (if a story needs to make either them present then that's when you make it canon) but unfortunatly, that's the way it goes. I'm not happy with either of the decisions but the saying goes, that's just the way the cookie crumbles. No point in discussing it any further. --Redemption^Talk 07:06, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Look, nothing's stopping either of you from imagining the character as anything you want. For LFL (and us here at the Wookieepedia) a canon definition is required so the character can be used for other stories - outside of a video game. QuentinGeorge 07:30, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
• Okay, I imagine now that Anakin Skywalker never fell to the dark side. Should they comply with such an imagination, or should they have the right to have their own vision of Star Wars history, which the fans should respect, not vice versa? - Sikon [Talk] 07:39, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
• To close this topic I would like to adress the points raised by Redemption and QuentinGeorge, Sikon too. First, Redemption is right that is the way the cookie crumbles and I guess we will all just have to accept it and move on. Next, QuentinGeorge is also correct, and I think I will personally still regard the Exile as male regardless of the canon. And Sikon, your insolent petty remarks aside, George Lucas created that foundation of the Star Wars universe, but he didn't create any of the games and the gender of the exile has no major bearing on the games outcome, unlike Annakin's fall to the dark side, which is the basis of the whole Star Wars saga you idiot. Finally, I would just like to say that the only reason I really perfered the exile as a man was, because I thought the story flowed better, and that the Handmaiden was a deeper character than that 2D boy scout, Disciple (loser).

Sion

• • I'm sorry, but we have a "no personal attacks" policy. If you continue to make such statements, it can result in a cooldown block. And please learn to sign your posts properly. - Sikon [Talk] 09:14, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
    • He should be blocked for having made no contributions bar this talk page (where it is specifically stated that this is not the forum to complain about the Exile's gender). QuentinGeorge 09:21, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
      • Exactly, there's a notice forthisrighton top of this page, so get over with it and if you have further complains, make them to LFL. Petiflo 10:34, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
        • Calm down... Besides resorting to a personal attack, he hasn't done anything forbidden yet. - Sikon [Talk] 11:18, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
          • Complaining about the Exile's gender despite the warnings AND calling you an idiot is allowed then ? Petiflo 11:26, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
            • it just makes me laugh that after "reduced to the level of squabbeling politicians haggeling over details." thats exactly what is happening again, because of Sion's statement. You say if you don't have an imagination you are not a star wars fan, what a very very closed view, its as you say moronic And no matter what all your complaining is simplt that, the exile is female, its a canon fact now and your moaning will not change it, so there is no point what-so ever. You say Jaden Korr is genderless? Last time i checked he was well a he. Jedi Dude 11:58, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

• First off, all of you need to chill out. I feel like Kanye West after Katrina saying "Bush doesn't care about black people." I was simply voicing an opinion, which is the purpose of this page I assume, and I apologize to anyone who was offended by my language, sorry for exercising the First Amendment. But I would like to offer Sikon an apology for my losing my cool, it was done in a moment of anger not rational thought. In response to Jedi Dude, I just want to say, I'm not complaining that the Exile shouldn't be female, because I'm a sexist, I simply feel the male story arch was better developed. As for the whole thing about assuming that you must have an immagination to be a Star Wars fan, yes you do need one because these are fictional stories. If you want reality, watch a documentary. Also I would greatly appreciate if you refrained from telling me how to speak or what to speak on in the future, as I fail to see how your opinions, misguided as they are, outweigh my own. Sion15
  • do you read what you write, hypocrit. How are my misguided opinions better? Because i do not resort to petty personal attacks thats why. Your going the right way to being blocked by admins. Jedi Dude 22:06, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
  • "I was simply voicing an opinion, which is the purpose of this page I assume, and I apologize to anyone who was offended by my language, sorry for exercising the First Amendment" First off, that is NOT the purpose of this page. This talk page (like all others on this wiki) is for discussing the content of the article, not complaining that the Exile is female (did you not see the big template at the top of this page?). Also, the First Amendment doesn't apply on this wiki. Besides the obvious fact that not everyone here is an American, we have rules against insulting other people. If you don't like it, you are welcome to leave. If want to complain about the Exile, the Jedi Council Forums and the offical Star Wars forums are better places to do it. StarNeptune^{Talk to me!} 01:34, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Xendor's Minions, are we going for THIS argument again!!!??? Please let this be the end of the whole gender/canonicity/anything like that debate! There's like 6 topics that say many of the same things! JediDude, whether Sion be a hypocrite or not, I think you will metaphorically kill more flies with honey than vinegar- not that Sion is a fly. Atarumaster88 02:13, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

• This conversation is over y'all. I just made a statement and everyone blew it out of porportion. I just stated an opinion, which I stand by and nothing more. And Wikipedia has no right to restrict what I or anyone else talks about here. Except name-calling which I conceed was a mistake. As for y'all, you just need to chill. Epecially you Jedi Dude, your rude comments and Name-Calling (hypocrite)( come on admistration where's the warning for this one?), are not needed here.Sion15
  • "I just made a statement and everyone blew it out of porportion." Yeah. Come on guys. All Sion did was come on here and start a topic entitled "You are all pathetic." We just took that the wrong way. Our bad. 67.52.246.107 17:41, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
• There are so many things I could say to that, but in the interest of stopping this pointless and borderline rude "discussion," I won't. Let's just say that many arguments could be avoided if people would not lower themselves to name calling and other irrelevant bashing. Wookieepedia does have the right to stop speech considered slanderous. Thus, this topic ends. Atarumaster88 15:07, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
  • yep, maybe it went to far. I apoligise for my faults etc but its frustrating, i don't belive calling someone a hypocrit is anywhere as bad as calling them a idiot or calling thier views moronic or pathetic but there you go. And it wasn't exactly one-sided, and as it was said if you don't like this you can leave, its not like your being forced here. Anyway end of. Jedi Dude 15:15, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
    • This party's over. Atarumaster88 15:23, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

• Thanks, Mace Windu. Anyway, to finally end this conversation once and for all, Yes, calling someone a hypocrite is as bad as calling them an idiot, because it is still bashing their views on a personal level, just like idiot. Don't let your emotions get the better of y'all. Just because you disagree with what I have to say doesn't mean I should be treated with any less respect then anyone else. That would be hypocrisy. ALso, I apologize to anyone that was offended by my choice of language, but I do stand by the views I presented in this discussion. Anyway, this topic is closed and I will not speak on it again.[[User:Sion15|

[edit] Compromise on the whole gender thing, please.

Just so everyone is happy, how about we just put a line somewhere saying that it is possible for you to make the character male, just in the extras somewhere. There it's not interfering with the canon, and now its recognized that the character is able to be a male at least in some parallel universe where the handmaiden is on your team. WHICH IS NOT PART OF THE MAIN STORY I RECOGNIZE. Red threeve

• • No, because thats game mechanics, if you look in the handmaiden's article it will say what you want i belive. Jedi Dude 14:06, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Maybe it could be clarified in the BtS section. Also, this is an archived talk page: please stop talking on it! Thank you.—Silly Dan _(talk) 14:13, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] They should stop giving the main character a canonical gender

Seriously, they need to stop doing that. Let the character be either male or femal, don't give them an official gender. First, there won't be any problems, since just about everyone is a sexist. Second, it makes it sound like the character isn't your own creation like it really is. Next time BioWare should avoid making the character a huge part of the Star Wars history, then they can avoid that canonical gender crap. —Unsigned comment by 72.83.118.6 (talk • contribs).

• Though I agree with your opinion, it's not our choice to say what is canon and what is not, and since the existance of those unique characters (Revan and the Jedi Exile) is their intellectual property, you must accept that they get to decide who and what they were. Besides, it's not like their decision lessens those games in any way. Master Kavar 06:45, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
• I swear, the next topic related to gender here will be deleted, and its poster banned. QuentinGeorge 06:49, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
• You may be surprised, but the character is actually not your creation. Exile was created by Obsidian and is "owned" by Lucasfilm, and they are the ones who decide what to do with their universe. - Sikon 14:50, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
• This was previously posted, with the anon taking off the exilefemale template. I just rolled back the edit. -- SFH 15:15, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Every time an anon rants about Exile's gender, a TFN user laughs. - Sikon 15:40, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
    • Come on fella's, lets stop this argument. In the end it won't matter, the Exile is a woman and Revan is a man, get over it. If we want to continue this, we might as well start picking which face we like the most.RushinSundaws 17:07, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Canon and Life

Its a cruel world where this is such a bickering issue. But if we must make the arguement for why the Jedi Exile is female, let us make something very clear. According to the current Star Wars canon, the Jedi Exile is female. However, the key word here for anyone who dislikes the idea is 'current'. There can be made a dozen arguements that the The New Essential Guide to Droids is not strictly word for word correct. There have been other errors in specific factors, and one could interpret the information as being 'fluff' instead of fact. HOWEVER, regarding this issue of the gender of the Jedi Exile, this is the first official source that states that the Jedi Exile is female. This creates canon, which will remain as such till another official source states otherwise. That is not to say that, in the future, the gender will not be changed. George Lucas himself may even eventually state that the Jedi Exile is male, and then that becomes canonical and replace the canon created by he New Essential Guide to Droids. But, in the current canon, the Jedi Exile is female, if simply due to the fact that no other work has touched on the issue. Thusly, the arguement about the gender of the Jedi Exile is irrelevent, as the issue currently has factual grounding to support the arguement for a Female Exile. If at any point in the future new official information comes out, this can create a new arguement. But at this point in time, canon has stated the Jedi Exile is female. Jackaron 20:30, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

• Firstly, please put new topics at the bottom of the talk page. Secondly, no offence and thatnks for your explanation, but this has been said many-a-time, but the battle lines are drawn, and i doubt any one person explaining it will convince the "pro-males" to give up. Darth Abeonis _{Sith Council (Sith campaign)} 18:09, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gender bias?

While it is now clear that the Exile is canonically female, I wonder why there is no specific reference to the alternate male version of the game. Notably Brianna is missing as a possible romance option. But for Revan, Carth still appears as a romance option, even though Revan is canonically male. The missing option of Brianna as a romantic option in TSL may therefore be interpreted as gender bias in favor of a female Exile while there is no such bias for Revan. That is a problem for Wookieepedia. Indeed, someone seems to have gone to work on the male incarnation of the Exile in order to remove him from history altogether, while Revan's page shows no such determination. That the page is then also locked from editing does not imply something positive.. :( Jediphile 19:32, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

• Uh...or maybe someone just hasn't written it yet. In case you didn't notice, the Visas romance IS there as well as Atris. --Redemption^Talk 19:37, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Yes, but both Visas and Atris are significant characters for both the female and male Exile. Brianna, however, is a significant character only for the male Exile, so her removal seems to imply a deliberate choice, when Mical is still noted for the female (and canonical) Exile Jediphile 19:43, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
    • No, she is a BIG part. Remember that she was the one who brought Kreia to Atris since she was pissed that she killed the Exile and then the Exile goes to rescue her (terrific scene BTW). Whoever wrote those two just hasn't gotten around to writing up Brianna. I can tell you that the same thing happened when I wrote the Atton section. I wrote Atton and left Mical and Sion out until later (mainly due to laziness and the fact that I was rushing). --Redemption^Talk 19:46, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
      • Brianna only ever appears during the Exile's first visit to Atris' academy for the female Exile (she is completely absent from that point on), so the scene you describe is unique to the male Exile alone (and yes, I agree it was terrific). Yet this does not appear appear on the page, since the male Exile seems to be banned now, and Brianna along with it. And needless to say, her option as a romantic option for the male Exile cannot be added now, since the page is locked. That's a problem because it implies something. Jediphile 19:55, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
        • The only thing it implies is that the admins lost their patience with the vandals and nobody had a chance to write it before it was locked. If you want to write it and submit it to an admin to enter, go right ahead. --Redemption^Talk 20:18, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually, from what I understand there was a staggering amount of alterations to the Exiles page, and when the admins locked it they probably deleted information about Brianna, to discourage those who couldn't accept that the Exile was female. —Unsigned comment by 70.71.144.106 (talk • contribs).

• The alterations to the article are because the vandals keep using older versions of the article where the gender and quotes have been changed. You can check through the history to see if anything's been removed. -- I need a name (Complain here) 16:34, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
• No, trust me, this wasn't about bias. I was the one who wrote the Visas romance section, and completly rehauled Brianna's own page awhile ago to mention the male Exile in detail. I was getting around to adding Brianna to the Exile's page, but then it got locked and I haven't got around to writing it up so I could ask for the shield to be removed. But you're not the first person to mention this, seems like I better hurry up. :P Master Kavar 21:04, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Create a Seperate Male Page

wouldnt this solve alot of problems? if we had a female and a male (non-cannon page)? just like how we use to have a lengthier page on brianna, and now shes just a sub-character.

i would also like to point out the essentai sw books are not always accurate, infact there are numerous spelling and grammer errors, as well as saying the TIE defender has no sheilding. if we go by this book, i think we should also include the TIE defender has no sheilds, despite what the novels say--Hc8719 15:04, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

yes i agree with the above statement, just because there are three sentences in a single book about droids is not enough to solidify canon in this respect, these books are regularly filled with inconsistencies. There are too many differences and intertwined background points for all the other character in KOTOR-2 to simply brush off half of the story and background. Beyond this, I would argue that there is more character, story, and history development when the game is played thru as a male as opposed to a female. Simply put, I believe that leaving the exile's sex ambiguous is the best choice, it allows for the most information to be included about all of the other characters, and it helps prevent characters like visas, brianna, and atris from becoming less notable, due to some percieved belief that their in-game actions did not happen.

• We do not determine canon. LucasFilm licensing does that and they have decided to make the Exile female. The entry in the NEGD is not the only evidence. Leland Chee has confirmed the decision multiple times. I too preferred a male exile, but that simply does not matter. A decision was made and we have to live with it.–Sentry^Talk 20:12, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

• Against. While we do have pages on non-canon characters, even as ridiculous as Henry Jones, we don't have an articles on different non-canon versions of the same characters. Otherwise, we would have to deal with, say, Jaden Korr (Male Human), Jaden Korr (Female Twi'lek), Jaden Korr (Female Zabrak) etc. - Sikon 05:52, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
• Absolutely not No point, in my mind. If there are some fans who can't handle that the gender of the Exile is canonically decided, then tough QuentinGeorge 06:22, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Its not exactely hard to get your head around is it? She's female, period. Jasca Ducato 08:49, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
• then please remove that TIE defenders had any sheilds, because acording to the essentials book, they had no sheilds.--Hc8719 23:38, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
• Why does it even matter? -- I need a name 23:41, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
• The fact of the matter is this: As of now, the only canonical source for the Exile's gender says that the Exile is female. That's it. That's the way it is. In the future, she may be retconned to male, who knows. But as of now she is a she and that is the way it is. - Angel Blue 451 00:09, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

and thats fine, but how does that relate to the TIE defender topic?--72.240.65.5 01:55, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

• I'm for creating a seperate page for the male Exile. Not because I have a problem with the Jedi Exile being officially female, nor because I'm not convinced, but just because the two characters had some key differences in their character. Besides, Wookieepedia has lots of pages on things and characters who aren't considered canon (such as the Devaronian Jedi who was cut from TSL) So what's the harm in making a seperate entry with a clear disclaimer that the male Jedi Exile is non-canon? Master Kavar 06:13, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
  • The Exile is female, and while yes, there are pages for noncanonical characters, those characters are technically possible if canonized, meaning they don't contradict others. There is only one exile, and it's female. To make a page would be to settle to the demands of many who can't take the fact that the exile is female. It would create confusion and probably not make good light for the wookie. I'm against it because of this. --Sauron18 06:35, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
• I still have to disagree, even if I'm alone on this one. I still think it's a good idea because having a oage only for the canon Jedi Exile effectively cuts out 3/4 of the rest of the TSL game. The canon Jedi Exile is the only "real" one, and she exists well outside her own little video game continuim and in the larger world of the Extended Universe. But I can't help but feel it's a complete waste to act like the other alternate Exile's have no place on wookieepedia. I'm not going to make an issue of it or anything, but how can wookipeedia be complete if it doesn't cover EVERYTHING in the Star Wars universe, canonized or not? Master Kavar 04:41, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
  • It might be a good idea move the male Exile related info into its own article tagged as noncanon. It would be kind of ironic, seeing the quote on the noncanon template is referring to the Exile. I do see Sikon's point as well, though.--Darth Oblivion^Comlink 04:51, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
    • Maybe we should vote on this? - Sikon 05:39, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
      • Can't we just expand the gender part of the behind the scenes section to cover it? Green tentacle 08:31, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
        • Guys, I really don't see the issue here. If you're worried that so much information is lost, place it in the "Behind the Scenes" section like we do with all the articles that have alternative realities. Look at the Revan article, toward the bottom. Dark side ending? Romance with Carth? Romance with Juhani? None of this is considered canon, but it still has a place in the fringes of the article; we can do the same here without resorting to a "fake" page. -BaronGrackle 15:56, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
          • • The issue is that alot of people still can't accept the female exile, is sad really. Expansion o the gender section will cover anything, as well as a expanded BTS possibly. No sperate article Jedi Dude 16:01, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
              • That's probably best. It is sad that some can't accept the female Exile. It never bothered me at all. And FYI, Hc8719, the Essential Guides do state the TIE Defenders had shields.--Darth Oblivion^Comlink 16:59, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
• Agreed. The behind the scenes sections should be expanded, but no male Exile article made. There is, after all, a fanon wiki for that purpose. - Angel Blue 451 17:05, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
• The non-canon Exile's story is not "fanon", it is part of the TSL video game story, which is an officially liscensed and published peice of EU. A male Exile is much more real than someone creating their own Star Wars character. I guess it would be okay to add the alternate story bits to the existing Jedi Exile page, but I'm worried about bogging down this canonized character with too much alternate tid-bits. It has nothing to do with not being able to accept her gender, but preserving information about the original game.Master Kavar 05:06, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Don't worry; as Green tentacle said originally, it can be fit into this article. If Kyle Katarn's article isn't bogged down with references to a new Emperor of the galaxy, or if Revan's article isn't bogged down with a female Darth Revan killing Carth onboard the Star Forge, then we can fit the major male details here. -BaronGrackle 13:37, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

your not alone master kavar, i created this topic for the purpose to create a seperate male exile page, anyone who doesnt agree to this, is technically as ignorant as male exile fanatics (which may or may not include myself)--Hc8719 03:52, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

• Just because someone doesn't agree doesn't make them ignorant HC! Its just that there is no place for a non-canon Exile article here on Wookieepedia, and never will be. So i say no. Jasca Ducato 08:06, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
• I am against this notion of a separate male page. I agree that the male story it is not technically "fanon," but all that needs to be said is already in the current Exile page: Just a brief paragraph explaining the differences between gender selection behind the scenes. Brianna's part in the male Exile story is also covered in her article, below her story. I think the original poster of this idea is just another person disgruntled over the canonity of the female Exile, whether he says he is or not. Making another article entirely is useless, and will not "solve problems." The people in the nerdrages over the female Exile just need to GET OVER IT, like the top of this talk page says. Making more and more discussion over this just leads to more of those problems, and I really think the admins/mods should step in again. --Scy Storm 08:38, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

i really think some of you hardcore by the book, are ignorant in the fact that: 1. lucas arts advertised as a male exile 2. the trailer portrays as a male exile 3. the tsl page on lucas arts still portrays a male exile 4. i trust a website owned by lucas arts, more than a book by an author, and only published by lucas arts 5. most everyone believed the jedi exile to most likely be a male, until about 2 years after the games release?

6.would it really be the end of the world if we made a seperate male page, and this debate could be over just like that?--Hc8719 23:45, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

• I understand your points, but the reality of the matter (I use the term knowing I speak of a fictional universe) is that the Exile is, canonically, female. A separate male page would blur the line. There is nothing that we couldn't include on the canonical Exile's page. There would be no point. - Angel Blue 451^(Holonet) 23:50, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
  • You trust LucasArts over... LucasArts? That makes sense how? A lot of people think that Revan was the mullet guy. Should we make an article called Revan (Mullet Guy) too? And the adverts and website for TSL show the Exile as both light sided and dark sided. Should we make a Jedi Exile (dangerous split personality) article for that? -- I need a name 12:22, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
    • FYI the most popular face for male Revan was the one with the scar under the eye (Source: LucasArts), its the one i choose :-). But i agree with "name", one canon character, one article. Jasca Ducato _{Sith Council (Sith campaign)} 19:07, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

no i need a name, i dont think we should have a mullet revan page, because it is the same story, the male and female story in tsl differ to some degree. besides the fact that we dont have an official revan pic, your point is not nessesary. in fact it was a terrible example, it would be like making a page for "Luke" and then a page for "Luke after mark Hamill got in a car accident between IV and V. can we at least expand on the male jedi exile on this page, like we did for female revan?--Hc8719 00:02, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

• If you feel it can be expanded, then go ahead and expand something, but don't get too crazy with it, because a whole new article on a male Exile is not needed. The article in its current form is fine as far as the Exile being male goes. The Exile is officially female and light side, so anything else that be done differently is for the alternate sections below her official CANON storyline. --Scy Storm 08:57, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Is there an official decision on the Exile's gender yet? I know it is considered cannon female but isn't there suppose to be an announcement from whoever decides this stuff confirming it? —Unsigned comment by 70.71.144.106 (talk • contribs).

• The information in the Essential Guide to Droids is enough, the Exile is female, and people just need to live with it. It's really really really really really not that big of a deal AT ALL. --Scy Storm 08:57, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

So thats a no, there hasn't been anyone with authority confirming it. —Unsigned comment by 70.71.144.106 (talk • contribs).

• Erm no, thats a yes! The New Essential Guide to Droid's is written by someone with authority, because it has to go through LucasFilm or whatever company it goes through, which is controlled by GL. Jasca Ducato _{Sith Council (Sith campaign)} 17:55, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Really? I was reading the Darth Nihilus page here on wookieepedia and on it, and acording to Star Wars:The Ultimate Visual Guide, Sion was Nihilus apprentice which is wrong. Or am I to accept this as undisputed fact? —Unsigned comment by 70.71.144.106 (talk • contribs).

• Star Wars: The Ultimate Visual Guide is a completely different book to The New Essential Guide to Droids. -- I need a name (Complain here) 19:37, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the book about droids obviously has much more authority on people than the visual guide. —Unsigned comment by 70.71.144.106 (talk • contribs).

• They're on the same level of authority, actually. -- I need a name (Complain here) 19:41, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

In that case, Sion was Nihilus's apprentice, and this is a fact. I suggest the immediate renovation of Sion's page so people know he was Nihilus's apprentice. —Unsigned comment by 70.71.144.106 (talk • contribs).

• That's more than likely a mistake in the book. And before you suggest it, that doesn't mean the Exile being female is a mistake too. -- I need a name (Complain here) 19:48, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

No, it doesn't. But until there is an official announcement on the Exiles gender, I don't think anyone can say the Exile is a female with 100% fact backing them up. —Unsigned comment by 70.71.144.106 (talk • contribs).

• Against. Look, guys, just live with it. Revan is male, Exile is female. It makes sense, and gives equal opportunity to both genders. I'm pretty sure we don't have a Revan (female) page, so why make one for the exile? Commander Darc ^(GAR) 20:11, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I do not think anyone can say that the Exile is one gender or another. There is only one source stating the Exile is female, and there is a possibility of error. Until it is confirmed by LucasFilms or whoever no one can say the Exile is male or female. And by the way, what kind of arguement is "It makes sense"? It makes sense whether the Exile is light or dark or male or female.

Yes! I win Mwahahahahaha! —Unsigned comment by 70.71.144.106 (talk • contribs).

• No, you don't win. The NEGD mentions it three times, so it's unlikely to be a mistake. Plus, Leland Chee has talked about wanting to make the Exile a woman. So drop the sexist attitude and accept it. Green Tentacle ^(Talk) 21:37, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
• *sigh* Just lock this talk page so we can have some serious discussion on the Exile and not this eliptical jabber which bears no significance. --Redemption^Talk 21:54, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Leland Chee is one person, while LucasFilms or whoever decides this stuff is a company. There are probably many different opionons in that company so Leland Chee does not have final say. Also, it is possible that there was a mistake. There have been mistakes made before and just because the writer believes some thing does not make it true. Lastly, what sexist attitude? I have never said that the Exile cannot be female, I just stated that I think no one can say that the Exile is one gender or another. Just because I do not agree that the Exiles gender has been chosen already does not give you the right to call me sexist. —Unsigned comment by 70.71.144.106 (talk • contribs).

• Then you should also know that Leeland Chee was the guy who decided Revan was male. Well, guess that's out the window! --Redemption^Talk 22:02, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Leland Chee has the unenviable job of trying to make sure everything fits continuity-wise. He is the second highest authority of Star Wars canon, the highest being George Lucas himself. -- I need a name (Complain here) 22:05, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Revan being a male was accepted by LucasFilms or whoever and so is perfectly acceptable. But as far as I can tell, though he is tring to make the Exile female it is still up in the air. If he does make the Exile female then I will accept it, but as long as a decision has not yet been made his opinion can not be accepted as fact. —Unsigned comment by 70.71.144.106 (talk • contribs).

• All LucasBooks material MUST go through LucasFilms for approval before it can be published. Therefore, Exile as a female is accepted by Lucasfilms as CANON. My God...--Redemption^Talk 22:15, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

As I stated before, mistakes are made. If you can say that the Exile being female is 100% true, then it is also true that Sion was Nihilus' apprentice. And, honestly, do think they would choose to announce the Exiles gender in a reference in a book about droids. —Unsigned comment by 70.71.144.106 (talk • contribs).

• Things like that slip by. Do you honestly think something as controversal as "heroine" for Exile would just get by (numerous times mind you)? Don't think so. --Redemption^Talk 22:22, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Right, the Sion / Nihilus thing is a mistake because it contradicts the game where they are equals. The Exile's gender does not contradict anything and is canon. And the reason it was confirmed in NEGD is presumably because it was the first book to come out after they made the decision. So please drop the subject. Green Tentacle ^(Talk) 22:25, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
    • It seems that once the decision was made, it was the next book in the pipeline which had a reason to mention the KOTOR II storyline, that's all. Had the publishing schedule been different, it could have been first mentioned in a WOTC RPG web article, The New Essential Guide to Alien Species, a Star Wars Insider article, etc., etc. —Silly Dan _(talk) 22:26, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Why not? If some one who didn't know the Exile gender wasn't decided, thought that the gender was suppose to be female or wanted it to be female was the one checking the book, it would have slipped by. If Leland Chee was in charge of making sure the book was correct cannon wise ( and it sounds like thats his job), he might have let it go because he wants the Exile to be female. —Unsigned comment by 70.71.144.106 (talk • contribs).

• Exactly. And if someone thought Jadens gender was decided when NEC came out and that slipped by then I guess that page has to be changed too. Just admit it. You can't handle Exile being a female. And if you can't handle it then stop visiting Wookieepedia. --Redemption^Talk 22:35, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Because simply, facts are fact, and really if it bothers you so much then just don't read this page. Jedi Dude 22:51, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I resent the fact that you are giving me motives I don't have. I have not said the Exile can't be female and you have no right to say I should not visit this site. I suggested that the Exiles gender not be decided until there is more information and have given my reasons why.If you dont like it then say so or counter my arguements with your own evidence but dont insult me.

• And so, I quote myself: *sigh* Someone forgot to lock the page...anyway. ONE source is all that is needed to delclare something canon. As long as nothing contradicts it, it's canon. If you don't like it, leave please. --Redemption^Talk 23:14, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Then we have to change Sion's page to reflect that he was Nihilus' apprentice. It is stated in Star Wars: The Ultimate Visual Guide, a book approved by LucasArts and as far as I know there is nothing that contradicts this. Therefore it is cannon.

It is contradicted by the game (KOTOR II) itself. In the game, they are equals. Master 76 _{Holodisk Mind Trick}^{Jedi Library} 03:35, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

They are equals in the game but it is possible that at one time before the game it was different. In fact, that is what the book states. At one point in time Sion was Nihilus' apprentice.

• Everything in the game suggests that Sion is acting on his own accord since they exiled Kreia. Wouldn't make much sense if Sion and Nihilus exiled Kreia and then Sion just goes ahead and becomes Nihilus' apprentice. Not only that but it's pretty clear in Sith tradition that Sion would have challenged Nihilus. If he'd lose, then he'd still be his apprentice. If he had won, then there wouldn't be any Nihilus now would there? --Redemption^Talk 05:07, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

It is possible that Sion was Nihilus' apprentice while Nihilus was Kreia's, much as the Lost Jedi were apprenticed under the Exile while the Exile was apprenticed under Kreia. And Sion never seemed to have much regard for Sith tradition anyway. He cared nothing about ruling the galaxy, and "loved" the Exile, two very un-Sith like traits.

• Nope. There is no way in hell that Sion was Nihilus apprentice while he was still under the apprenticeship of Traya (since Sion was also under her and probably valued more then Nihilus since he "wore her teachings so well"). Remember that Sion couldn't help but love the Exile ("one cannot resist the feelings of the heart") and that he HATED her for it. Also, the Sith don't always want to rule the galaxy. Traya never expressed any desire to rule over a vast empire. Sion valued strength, so there would be no doubt that he'd attempt to challenge Nihilus if he were his master. And the one time he did challenge Nihilus (though it was cut) he specifically calls their relationship an "alliance", not a Master/Apprentice one. --Redemption^Talk 19:27, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the above post. But as for creating a separate male page, I vote no. Master 76 _{Holodisk Mind Trick}^{Jedi Library} 01:16, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

In that case, can we at least have a little more detail on the male exile in the Gender section of the page? I'd do it myself but the page is locked and don't know how to submit information. (My skill in Computer Use: 0)

• It makes sense, because if you have the conversation with Kreia at the end, she tells the Exile that she will join Revan in defending the galaxy from a "great evil". There's probably going to be some romance between the two, since Revan cannot return to Bastila from his fulltime "job". (btw, to the Admins, if this dude acts up again, he should be exiled. Commander Darc ^(GAR) 21:22, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Thats a bold statement. Revan is suppose to be lightside, remember. Cheating on Bastila isn't something he would do. Wouldn't be very hero like.

can we at least edit this page, to reflect at the bottom, the male version (even though its not cannical). if you disagree, then we should probably remove the dark side alternative endings as well) just the same, someone contact and admin, and ask for temporary sheild deactivation, so we can expand on the "non-cannonical" male story--Hc8719 00:04, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Exile is male i can prove it

The exile is male because it in a certin cut that is the one from dantioonie with the droid and fixing it, it even when a female charachter says "The exile cant be controlled, He was argueing with my padawan the other day"said vrook - Jaceb Scorn 18:51, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

• • Any ways it doesnt matter that the exile is female but i piture him male
    • The Exile is female. Stop trying to prove otherwise. Give up before you start!Jasca Ducato _{Sith Council (Sith campaign)} 19:29, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Ok but prove that hes female and ill give up, but dont take it from a guy who has problably never even played the game have a vote for male or female Exile Also the exile could have been unisex for all we know - Jaceb Scorn 12:46, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
      • If you'll check the article's "Behind the scenes" section, you'll note that the Exile has been set to female in The New Essential Guide to Droids. The end. —Silly Dan _(talk) 12:52, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Not the end that not proof that some guy thinks he's the authority and says the exile is female thats not proof any ways maybe the exile was a unisex meaning he was both _ Jaceb Scorn 12:59, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
      • As far as Lucasfilm is concerned, the persons responsible for making the Exile female (Daniel Wallace, Leland Chee, etc.,) are the authorities. This does not mean heavily armed-Lucasfilm goons will seize your copy of KOTOR II for playing a male PC: it only means that all references to the character in the future will refer to her as a woman. Please check the previous archived talk pages for the various arguments which have already been made. —Silly Dan _(talk) 13:05, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
        • I summit but ill be back after i contact the Obsidian developers _ Jaceb Scorn 13:10, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
          • Obsidian developers have no part in this. Because that's just what they are. Developers. They don't make the decisions. They made the Exile up to the choice of the player. Just as Bioware did for Revan. Funny how nobody raises any fuse about that. --Redemption^Talk 13:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
            • that is kinda funny - Jaceb Scorn 13:23, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
              • Jaceb, stop being petty and realise thet you are wrong. The Exile is female (as much as i hate it) and you can't change it. Jasca Ducato _{Sith Council (Sith campaign)} 19:36, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
                • I alreadly gave up what do you think "i summit" means - Jaceb Scorn 12:57, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
                  • According to dictionary.com and Wiktionary, using "summit" as a verb means that you reached the top of a mountain. -- Darth Culator ^(Talk) 14:04, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

I have a question. I have heard a lot about the Exiles gender. Some say its female, some say its male or undecided, and I am at a loss because I dont know what is true. This site says the Exile is cannon female. So I ask. Is this site connected to LucasArts or films or whatever, or is this just another persons opinion? Please let me know. —Unsigned comment by 70.71.144.106 (talk • contribs).

• The site is unofficial, but we strive to remove any fan speculation (fanon) and only leave what's said in canonical sources. This article, for instance, says where that information is taken from. The New Essential Guide to Droids says Exile is female. - Sikon 05:50, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
• Thank you, whoever it is that was born smart, the jedi excile is truthfull and obviously male, no little girl could do such things as in this game, thank you who you are for you are correct. —Unsigned comment by 205.188.117.9 (talk • contribs).
• THE EXILE IS MALE! —Unsigned comment by 205.188.117.9 (talk • contribs).
  • THE EXILE IS FEMALE! There, I said it in bigger, bolder, redder letters, hence I win. -- I need a name (Complain here) 12:51, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
• The Excile is Male, yes now I win, Isaid it last, HA HA, you lose.
  • I'm saying the Exile is female, I said it last, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, let's cut this crap before the talk page is full of "The Exile is MALE!" "The Exile is FEMALE!" nonsense. -- I need a name (Complain here) 00:00, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
• I dont understand, why cant the exile just be female? if you look at the picture on the page it definately looks like a female. Ugluk: Destroyer of Redlinks^{Whine Here} 00:05, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
  • This discussion should have ended a long time ago. - Angel Blue^(Holonet) 00:12, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
    • I though it had ended long ago. People keep starting the same argument over and over again. Oh, and THE EXILE IS FEMALE!--Lord Oblivion^Comlink 02:05, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
      • Guys, just lock the Exile page once and for all, else you'll never see the end of it. If anybody has an interesting thing to add, he just request here that it's added. It's definetelly better than having to revert neverending vandalism. But that was just my opinion. Oh and while we're at it : LIKE IT OR NOT THE EXILE IS FEMALE YOU BUNCH OF MALE CHAUVINISTS MORONS !!!! (I know it's against the rules but like 3PO said it's "soooooooo good!") --Petiflo 11:25, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
  • I'm tempted to lock this talk page so that only registered users can use it. I have nothing against anons, but there are WAAAYY too many that have popped on this page and have done nothing but complain about the Exile being female. StarNeptune^{Talk to me!} 11:34, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
    • That would be a good start... I guess. --Petiflo 12:21, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
• Although they will probably just register. Personally, I would like to modify the template at the top of the page to say "The Exile is female. Get over it or get off this site." Vitriolic, I know, but this is starting to get out of hand. -- SFH 14:10, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Makes me miss that old template, with Atton saying his line. "Maybe I just wish ((he)) was a woman." That was a great template. -BaronGrackle 21:56, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Padawan vs. Knight

See also: archive discussion

I admit it can be rather ambiguous what the Exile's exact status was prior to the Mandalorian Wars, but the Disciple's background confession speaks quite a bit. Key bits boldened. Bear with it, if you would:

Disciple never mentions that Exile couldn't be his master because the Exile was still a Padawan; he says it was because the Exile and (according to him) anyone who could have been his master left to fight. He claims that the Exile was among those who taught prospective Jedi the ways of the Force, and he even compares the Exile to Master Vrook, as one comparing potential mentors. Also remember that taking a Padawan is not a prerequisite for being a Jedi Knight; it is a prerequisite for being a Jedi Master (I think). In any event, search the game. There is no mention of the Exile still being a Padawan when leaving for the wars, there is no mention of her master or master's reaction to her leaving, none of her not completing the trials, or anything of the sort. There is her affinity to forming Force Bonds with masters, but this only proves that she had already had several teachers before leaving, similar to the way Revan learned from many. For now, I'll put the old edits back up. -BaronGrackle 22:35, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

• Agreed; if the Exile had actually been just a Padawan, they would've made a mention to it somewhere in the game. If the Exile had been a Padawan she also would've been wearing Padawan robes at her trial, not full Jedi robes. Then there's that snarky comment the Exile makes to Kreia on Peragus about not treating like a Padawan. So people need to stop messing with the article; she's a Jedi Knight until someone can get an official source that says otherwise, period. Master Kavar 23:15, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
• Then there's that snarky comment the Exile makes to Kreia on Peragus about not treating like a Padawan. What/ Where?! When?!! - Sikon (Vacation) 05:12, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
  • It does mention in-game that the Exile wa a Padawan. Kreia mentions it at some point. As for the Snarky comment, it could well be that the Exile knows she is above the normal level of a Jedi Padawan and dispises being referred to as one. Who said that a padawan couldn't teach younglings (Which is what Mical most likely was) about the Force. It isn't an impossibility for a Padawan to be able to teach about the Force. Jasca Ducato _{Sith Council (Sith campaign)} 10:27, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
• I'm fairly sure the game never calls the Exile a Padawan, and quite a few times they call her a Jedi Knight. If your certain about your claim, find and present an exact quote of them calling her such, anything else is just supposition. Master Kavar 19:54, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Who said that a padawan couldn't teach younglings (Which is what Mical most likely was) about the Force. Understand that I mean no sarcasm when I ask: really? Has this ever happened, where a Padawan would give younglings their first introduction to the Force instead of a Knight or a Master? Besides that, if you can remember the generic point when Kreia calls the Exile a Padawan, maybe the rest of us can help find it. Kreia does ramble on throughout the entire game, so it's easy to miss something. That being said... it could be that she just made a remark about when the Exile had been a Padawan, prior to the wars. No way to tell until we find it; it just seems that everything else in the storyline suggests she was already knighted. -BaronGrackle 14:22, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

I was also under the assumption that the Exile never acsended to the rank of Jedi Knight. For one reason, because the Exile is never reguarded or acknowledged as Jedi Knight; either in any of her personal coversations, or any third party talks about her. And this discussion that takes place between a male-Exile and Brianna also seems interesting to contemplate:

• Brianna: "I have thought about what you have said, of my mother, of my bloodline. There is something I would ask of you."
  • Kreia: And so it ends.
• Brianna: "I want you to teach me the ways of the Force. To become a Jedi Knight like my mother."
• a PC choice is: "I... am not a Jedi Knight. Ask it of Atris."
• to which Brianna then replies: "There is no one else I would want to train me. I have seen you in battle, I have seen your heart, and you are what I want to be. It is like a hollow place inside me, but when I am with you, the echo dies."

I just thought this was an interesting conversation to put forth. I know perfectly well that is not considered canon (with a male Exile), but Brianna's views of the Exile - even though he makes the comment that he is no Jedi Knight (either referring to never officially attaining the rank, or perhaps his exile from the Jedi Order) - seem to reflect perfectly those held by Mical.

Just wanted to point that out. However, if the canon Exile turns out to be a Jedi Knight, that's fine with me. It would explain her teaching at the Enclave a little better. Though, I must admit, I always assumed Mical was speaking about sparrs and ragtag instructions and not actuall classes taught by a Knight or Master. --Master Dakari 00:52, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

• I'd like to point out that the Exile was a General during the Mandalorian Wars. That seems to be a pretty lofty rank for a padawan, don't you think? I believe that most evidence points to the exile being a full Knight, including the robes she wears when approaching the council in the cutscene and the fact that she posessed the high rank of General. The responsibilities placed on her shoulders during the time of the Mandalorian Wars would not be placed on a padawan. In response to the Exile's conversation with Handmaiden, it seems fair that he means that he is not part of the Order, simply because I doubt someone exiled from the Jedi would care much if he/she has a high enough rank in the Order to train someone. ---Ambrose- 14:33, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
• The Exile was a General, yes. But unlike the Clone Wars where almost every single Jedi fought on the Republic's side; in the Mandalorian Wars only a handfull of Jedi entered. So positions would have been tight. Jasca Ducato _{Sith Council (Sith campaign)} 13:55, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

About your comments, Ambrose, would you consider "Commander" quite a lofty position for a Padawan? If so, then you should know that by one of Palpatine's executive orders, that declared every Jedi Master a "High General", every Jedi Knight a "General", and every Jedi Padawan a "Commander". These titles were legally distributed to every member of the Jedi Order whether they accepted and used them or not. However, like Jasca Ducato said, during the Clone Wars, almost every Jedi was a participant. During the Mandalorian Wars, however, only a few of the Order defied the Council and climbed on board. Revan, who was only a Jedi Knight, was soon given supreme command over the Ruepublic's forces; which authority, according to your mode of thinking, should have gone to some Jedi Master who participated. Master Kae, maybe?

My point being: Revan recognized the skills and abilities of the Exile. Everyone did, even Vrook (who was jealous of the Exile, I dare say). Even HK-47 makes comments on how Revan saw the connections the Exile made with others, be they Force-sensitive or not, and also her strong affinity and attunement with the Force. Whether the Exile was a Padawan or Knight, Revan took advantage of her skills and made her a General.

Come to think of it, an advanced Padawan would - in some way - have a slight advantage over a well-trained soldier because of better discipline and the use of the Force. Look back at some of the back-handed remarks Kreia makes to the Mandalorians for proof of this.--Master Dakari 16:50, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

• Point taken on both counts. However, on a note slightly more oriented toward the intentions of the developers, you'd think that if they intended to have made the Exile a Padawan they may have vested more time in the story discussing who the Exile's master was. As it stands, I don't think there's proof one way or the other as to the Exile's rank within the Order, though my impression is that she was a Knight. But again, there's no hard proof that I've seen indicating one way or the other. Nor do I think it's of much concern- the Exile's time in the Order before the Mandalorian wars is inconsequential, I think. It's her actions that took place during and after the wars which defined her, as well as her decision to fight in them in the first place. And once she defied the council and took on a sort of "Gray Jedi" status along with the rest of the Jedi who fought in the wars, her rank wouldn't make much of a difference would it? Just some things to think on. ---Ambrose- 18:11, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
  • This is in response to the Handmaiden dialogue above, where one choice is: "I... am not a Jedi Knight. Ask it of Atris." Throughout the game there are constant, numerous times when the Exile can respond with something along the lines of "I am not a Jedi" or "do not call me a Jedi anymore". The reason this specific choice says "Ask it of Atris" in the very next sentence is because of the whole subplot of Atris being the last Jedi versus the Exile being the last Jedi. -BaronGrackle 19:42, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
    • We're not discussing who is the last of the Jedi. We're discussing the Exile's rank when she was fighting in the Mandalorain Wars. Jasca Ducato _{Sith Council (Sith campaign)} 09:38, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
      • Yes, exactly. WE'RE not discussing the last of the Jedi, but the Exile is discussing it when he has the chance to say "I... am not a Jedi Knight. Ask it of Atris." There's usually an option in the Exile's dialogue to make her (or him, in this case) accept her status as no longer being a Jedi, in many different conversations. You know... if it's really this big of an issue, we can just change the introductory sentence to refer to the Exile as a "Jedi"... without the preface Padawan, Knight, Master, or anything. Since she is never called any of these three, it could possibly be one of those things left open-ended... I and a few others have presumed that Knight is the default since no rank is mentioned, but perhaps that's just as presumptuous as presuming her to be Padawan. -BaronGrackle 21:38, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

BaronGrackle, I concurr with your suggestion. During the game, the Exile is never mentioned as being either of the three ranks. People keep alluding to the robes worn during the Exile's trial before the Council, declaring that she wore Jedi Knight robes. I stand to correct that they were Jedi Robes. Not padawan, knight, or master robes - just Jedi robes.

Also, let's keep in mind that the types of robes worn, by any one person, does not establish what rank that Jedi holds within the Order. Brianna wore her mother's robes. Her mother - Arren Kae - happened to be a Jedi Master, so her robes could possibly be considered Jedi Master robes. Simply because Brianna was wearing them, does this make her a Jedi Master? I hope none of you would say, "Yes".

Again, I second the idea to change the opening phrase to say, simply, "Jedi" with the ranking of such left out. Since it is never specifically mentioned in-game what position the Exile held within the Order before being exiled, it is not our place, as a source of grounded information, to assume one way or the other.--Master Dakari 01:36, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

• I concur with leaving the rank out of the article. It shall be done. Jasca Ducato _{Sith Council (Sith campaign)} 08:01, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
• Agreed here. ---Ambrose- 12:24, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
• When asking Kreia about the Mandalorians wars "But only some Jedi Knights answered the call...like I did." Coridan 21:38, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

When Kreia offers the Exile the three Jedi Master/Sith Lord classes, usually only a Knight would've been offered those choices. If the Exile was a Padawan, Keria would've had to train her to a Knight before she could even get to such a high staus, official or not. Jedi Striker 17:20, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

• Even if that was the case Strkier, it doesn't matter. Canon has not told us what rank the Exile was and so it shall be left out of the article. Jasca Ducato _{Sith Council (Sith campaign)} 09:23, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
• I almost hate to post this, but it seems relevant:

Unfortunately, this excerpt does not help much as the Jedi Exile probably earned the rank of Jedi Knight during the war.–Sentry^Talk 09:40, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

• It confirms the only known rank for the Exile was Padawan. And i dubt she was promoted during the war because she went against the wishes of the Council. They wouldn't reward someone for disobeying them would they (well, not these ones at least). Jasca Ducato _{Sith Council (Sith campaign)} 10:16, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Overseen by Baas? Wasn't he, like, killed by Exar Kun? - Sikon (Vacation) 11:15, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
    • Probs a type. It was overseen by Baas, before he was killed. Jasca Ducato _{Sith Council (Sith campaign)} 11:46, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Well, bah. Padawan it is, then, I suppose, wrung from a website strung with typos. Even with the fact that Vodo-Siosk Baas was killed by Exar Kun, and the Exile was hardly the "single student" who joined Revan alone (as we see both in the Korriban vision and countless times in dialogue) the word is still as unmistakable as "heroine". Much thanks, Sentry; no need for another Exile controversy I suppose. :-) -BaronGrackle 14:04, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Well hang on a second, there's conflicting evidence here. Didn't anyone else read what Coridan wrote? "When asking Kreia about the Mandalorians wars "But only some Jedi Knights answered the call...like I did." Coridan 21:38, 30 August 2006 (UTC)". Again, I think it should be left out. I don't think there was considerable thought put into the Exile's rank when the game was being developed, since we can clearly see how it could be either one, and perhaps that indicates that it should be left out altogether. --Ambrose 16:23 1 September 2006 (UTC)
    • I don't mind either way. But Leland Chee has said that the Chronicles are canon, despite the number of mistakes they have. Any information in them that is contradicoty is automatically de-canonised, but the rest is Canon. The Exile is a padawna. Jasca Ducato _{Sith Council (Sith campaign)} 16:41, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
      • I agree that the Exile's rank should be left out. If you remember, the 'Chronicles' also state that Revan was a 'Jedi Master', which was plainly not true. I wouldn't trust the accuracy of the excerpt above as the Chronicles are full of minor inaccuracies and inconsistencies with the established continuity of the games. KOTOR II heavily implies that the Exile was a Jedi Knight during the war, but, as I said above, we simply cannot confirm if or when she reached that rank.–Sentry^Talk 21:00, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
        • The situation is different from Revan, since the only canonical source to definitely mention Exile's rank says "Padawan". On the other hand, Revan is quite often explicitly mentioned in both games to be a Knight. - Sikon (Vacation) 02:55, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
          • And, since i have previously pointed out. The Chronicles are canon in those respects where they do not contradict something already laid out (i.e. Revan being a master), but no other source says the Exile was a Knight or anything like that; thus she's a padawan. Jasca Ducato _{Sith Council (Sith campaign)} 08:04, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
          • I don't know. So if the Chronicles are only canon if they don't contradict a higher level, then they are, more or less, S-canon? It's hard to tell if there's a contradiction with the (C-canon) game. The line "only some Jedi Knights answered the call... like I did" could be telling, but it does not necessarily mean what it seems. Bao-Dur could very well say: "Only some Jedi Knights fought in the Mandalorian War... like I did", since the "like" describes the fighting. I just don't know.

Apathy is death. Apathy is death. Bee bee beep tweet tweet! Apathy is death. Apathy is death. -BaronGrackle 13:36, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

AHHHHH! I wish some fo these writers would actually do research before publishing something and making then it be made canon... even with all of its discrepancies! This rant is about the Chronicles. While some parts help, others throw you for a loop, like what I am about to show you. Yes, the Chronicles-quote above is about the Jedi Exile and can be found under Part IX: Darth Revan Rising. But this one is from the Chronicles well, as can be found under Part X: Proving Grounds:

• "A lone Jedi Knight, who had journeyed earlier to fight alongside Revan, forsakes him after the surrender of the Mandalorians - and the apparent loss of the Knight's connection to the Force during the battle - and journeys back to the Old Republic, determined not to fight any longer. The Knight is exiled by the Jedi Order, and the Knight's lightsaber is removed. Meanwhile, Darth Revan... "

The one from Part IX says that the Jedi Exile is a Padawan at Dantooine, but still disobeys Atris in order to go fight in the Mandalorian War. Part X later states that the Jedi Exile was a Knight when the Mandalorians were defeated, and when returning to face her judgement. My only conclusion is that it is implied, even while disobeying Atris, the Jedi Exile proved her worth as a Jedi and was elevated to the rank of Jedi Knight sometime during the Mandalorian War. The war did last about 4 years, and one bit of the Chronicles says that even the Jedi Council viewed Revan as a hero, thought unbeknownst to them he was delving deeper and deeper into the Sith teachings he found at Malachor V. Well, that's just my say on it.

I guess it is safe to assume, as it is implied in the Chronicles, that the Exile was Knighted sometime during the Mandalorian War. The Council would not have held an earned title from a Jedi simply for the fact that they followed Revan to battle the Mandalorians. There are Jedi who defy the Council's wishes all throughout the Galaxy's history, but they are still members (and sometimes highly respected ones) of the Order just as the next Jedi is. Anyone remember Dooku or Qui-Gon? Also keep in mind that the Jedi Order only hated Revan and all those who followed him after the incident at Malachor V. And their feelings were only reinforced when Revan returned as Dark Lord of the Sith, with many of the Jedi who served him as Sith themselves. But before this, they were not seen as castaways and cut-offs, just misguided.--Master Dakari 03:40, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

• The problem with that is that almost every species in the galaxies generalise the Jedi as Jedi Knights, its just a general name. For example, when Malak was Revan's apprentice he was likely called a Sith Lord by the peoples of the Republic. At least with the title padawan it isnt generalised. Jasca Ducato _{Sith Council (Sith campaign)} 14:18, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
• I agree that the galaxy-at-large uses the title "Jedi Knight" as a generalized term they apply to all in the order, but that just doesn't seem to be what is meant by the article. If it was written from the view-point of the galaxy, then it would not have differentiated from the different ranks as it has throughout all the articles. But as seen in the article on IX compared with one on X, it puts a specific emphasis on what rank that one Jedi held at the time these seperate events took place. It makes clear that the Exile was a Padawan when she disobeyed Atris and went to follow Revan, and that she was Knight when she returned after Malachor V, not willing to fight any longer, to face her trial.--Master Dakari 19:12, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Tell me, she went to war against the wishes of the Jedi Council, correct? SO why would they promote her to the rank of Knight, than exile her for that? It makes no sense. Jasca Ducato _{Sith Council (Sith campaign)} 09:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
    • There have been Jedi who have promoted themselves remember, it was frowned apon but the exile was already being judged badly so...Jedi Dude 10:06, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
      • Jasca Ducato, remember that the Jedi who followed Revan were a splinter group, a rebellious faction that included a number of Jedi Masters. It is entirely possible that they rapidly promoted talented padawans during the war with little ceremony and without the approval of the Jedi Council.–Sentry^Talk 21:37, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

First, whoever wrote my name wrong, thanks a lot! Just kidding, hahaha. Second, I have played the game numerous times and none of the characters mention at all that the Exile is a Padawan. Nor does it mention that she was a Padawan before, during, and after (KOTOR II) the Mandalorian Wars. Where does it mention in the game and what's the exact quote? Jedi Striker 11:51, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

• Jedi Striker, go here: [[3]]. Read the second paragraph under Part IX: Darth Revan Rising and then the third paragraph under Part X: Proving Grounds. These two passages are canonical evidence that the Jedi Exile was a Padawan when joining Revan to fight the Mandalorians, and then a Knight when she finally returned after Malachor V, only to be exiled. As discussed above, the Chronicles (which are copied directly from LucasArt's KotOR II website) are considered canon; unless in the times that it contradicts other facts that have already been established in other arenas... such as Revan being a Jedi Master. In which cases, you either overlook them or correct them in your head and move along. :) --Master Dakari 02:30, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Well that does answer my question, I guess. But did Revan and Malak have the authority to make the Exile a Knight? Did one of the Jedi Masters that followed Revan give her the rank? Or did she assume the rank? Thanks for that link, by the way! --Jedi Striker 02:08, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
    • No one knows how the Exile reached the rank of Jedi Knight because no source explicitly states what happened.–Sentry^Talk 06:21, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
      • Exactly. We only know that it happened sometime during the Mandalorian War. But when it comes to exactly when, how, or by whom, we are left in the dark. I would stress that it was a legitimate Knighting. The Jedi who followed Revan - even Revan and Malak themselves - were not viewed as outcasts... only headstrong and misguided. But they were still full-fledged members of the Jedi Order. The were only seen as seperate from the Order after Malachor V. Until Revan returned from the Outer Rim as Dark Lord of the Sith, he was held as a hero, even by the Jedi Council. So, I would say that the Exile had a legitimate Knighting; being that she was still a member of the Order until her exile from it. But without any sources telling us the circumstances of the situation, it is better left unassumed. It is safe to say she became a Jedi Knight during the Mandalorian Wars; but it is not safe to say exactly when, how, or by whom the rank was given.--Master Dakari 14:58, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
        • Only the Jedi COuncil can knight a Padawan, if Revan or Malak did, it would have been rejected as a knight by the Council until they knighted her, so she is only a Padawan, though she clearly deserves the title of Jedi Knight if not Jedi Master, but she isn't. RushinSundaws 15:07, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
          • You are putting words into our mouths that simply aren't there. Read what is in bold in my last post. We are not saying that we know who Knighted the Exile. To do so would be assuming something that we just don't know. We know that she was Knighted sometime during the Mandalorian Wars, but that's all we know. It's not our place to establish or deny canon; but to enforce it on this site is.--Master Dakari 18:16, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Whoever wrote the new stuff about the Exile's rank in the beginning is now my hero, hahaha. --Jedi Striker 01:18, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

• Where did anyone find this It is safe to say she became a Jedi Knight during the Mandalorian Wars; but it is not safe to say exactly when, how, or by whom the rank was given. I've never seen this anywere, I'm gonna say its fanon. And Atris did believe that those who left for the Mandalorian Wars were outcasts and had fallen to the Dark Side. Also during the Exiles trial, the Masters were clearly worried about Revan a year or so before he came back as the Dark Lord of the Sith, so they did not trust Revan; and more than likely considered him a fallen Jedi even before he proved he was. RushinSundaws 15:32, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Finally, someone has seen the light. The Exile would never have been promoted to the rank of Jedi Knight. It just wouldn't have happened! She disobeyed the Jedi Order so they're not going to reward her are they? Jasca Ducato _{Sith Council (Sith campaign)} 18:21, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Why does everyone in this discussion only read what they write, Jasca as it has been said we never said the order rewarded here, there have been Jedi who have giving themself the rank of knight and master! The council may have not giving her the status of knight but she might of decided herself after all when know that you are a knight, a knight you are (somethin like that)Medstar Jedi Dude 18:25, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
    • Well, I'm also of the opinion that the Council would never had made her a Knight after she left for the Mandalorian War. My theory is that these lousy Chronicles aren't paying much attention to other sources, and they're not even paying much attention to themselves. But, since they explicitly say that she was a Padawan before leaving, and they also explicitly say that she was a Knight upon returning and being exiled, there are no provable contradictions. This is what we currently have to work with. :-) -BaronGrackle 22:14, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
      • Well that's just frickin' fantastic. Some poorly written article, riddled with inconsistencies, and absolute lack of respect for the original source material is now fully embraced as canon, and we're expected to just over look the glaring mistakes and accept the rest that sounds remotely plausible. I can't wait for another Chronicles to say that the Exile is actually two Jawas in a woman costume, and just finish destroying the storyline already. Really though, why cant we just balance these articles a little with common sense?Master Kavar 08:51, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
        • Please, your not going to rant about gender, cos we've really had enough of that . Canon's canon. Game mechanics my friend, game mechanics. Jedi Dude 17:59, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
          • I apologize for ranting, but I wasn't complaining about the Exile's canon gender, but the reasoning behind making her a Padawan instead of a Jedi Knight. The only article that reffers to her as such, has such an obvious and glaring contradiction (citing a Jedi on Dantooine who's been dead 40 years?!), and yet that one point is accepted as canon while the rest is ignored? That makes no sense.Master Kavar 19:26, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
            • • Relax, if you had read this entire section, you would know that the Chronicles also refer to the Exile as a Jedi Knight at a later point. As BaronGrackle stated above, that is what we have to work with. She was a padawan before the war and a Knight afterwards. The details are entirely unknown at this point.–Sentry^Talk 19:40, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
              • If the Exile is a knight, how come it got changed? Also, there is only one way to prove the Exile's rank before she was exiled. If anyone can find a specific line in the game where it states she's a Padawan, then I think that will prove it all.--Jedi Striker 14:15, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

This is what Vrook Lamar says on the holotransmission if the Exile chooses to talk to the droid on Dantooine. There's your proof. Jasca Ducato 20:36, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

• Well, in the chronicles it refers to her as a knight, so were still stuck Jedi Dude 20:54, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
  • In any case, we have no way of knowing when that recording was made. Every Jedi was once a padawan, so it doesn't prove anything one way or another.–Sentry^Talk 21:17, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
    • Jasca Ducato, Vrook did say that in the game... I will not argue that. But, does that - in any way - displace what is found in the Chronicles? No. Why, you might ask? Well, because the Chronicles specifically say that she was a Padawan when she left Dantooin to fight in the war. To say that she became a Knight sometime during the war does not, in any way, contradict what Vrook says. How so? Because Vrook is saying this before she left Dantooine... possibly even years prior. Trust me, I used to be a promoter of the "Padawan Hypothesis". That was until I read the Chronicles. Since her rank at the time of the Mandalorian Wars, her exile, or even her adventures during the game are never plainly provided...then the Chronicles serve as our only source. That being said; it is not our place to argue that she wasn't a Knight simply because the specifics of her Knighting are not known. That is not very strong ground to stand on. Unless some concrete evidence is provided to the contrary, then she was, in fact, a Jedi Knight. Using the thought process as displayed by some, let me give this example: We don't know how, when, or by whom Arca Jeth was Knighted do we? And because we don't, are we going to argue that he was never truly a Jedi Knight? Sure, they SAY he was a Jedi Master, but how do you know for sure? They better let us know exactly what happened, step-by-step, or else it's not canon! Do we see the picture, people?--Master Dakari 00:46, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
• What we need is someone to ask Leland Chee over on the forums, maybe that'll sort this out. Jasca Ducato 14:31, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
  • I sent a PM to Dan Wallace yesterday and am waiting for a reply. So, maybe we'll know soon.--Master Dakari 16:31, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
    • Dan Wallace replied to my question on the rank of the Jedi Exile before her exile from the Jedi Order. This a copy and paste of his PM to me:

"Now, under "Part IX: Darth Revan Rising" the Chronicles say that the Exile was a Padawan when she left to fight in the Mandalorian Wars. Then, under "Part X: Proving Grounds" they say she is a Jedi Knight who lost her connection to the Force and is no longer willing to fight. If, as you say, Leland Chee has said that this text is canon only so much as it doesn't contradict existing material, then I'd have to agree with you that it implies the Exile achieved the rank of Knight. However, I think it'd still be worth clarifying with Leland! Dan"

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