Contents 1 Move back 2 Tahiri 3 Alema Rar 4 Back to the Sith Lords issue 5 Sith organization succession box

Move backEdit

I move that this page be merged back with Order of the Sith Lords where it was until recently. This is merely a continuation of Bane's order, not it's own. Kaje 04:29, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

• Can't be. Bane's order died with Palpatine on Onderon. Lumiya's Sithship was self-claimed - she was trained by the Apprentice while the Master was still alive and kicking. You can cite the Palpatine Maul precedent all you want, but the fact is Palpatine kept teaching Maul after Plaguey had kicked the bucket. Vader would have found it difficult to do so. Thefourdotelipsis 11:34, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
• Lumiya was never proclaimed as a true successor, hence she has no legitimacy in Bane's order, only in the one she founded herself. Just as Kadann is not a member of Bane's order, despite claiming "inheritance" from a member, Lumiya is not either. QuentinGeorge 11:49, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
• Darth Caedus (formerly Jacen Solo) is a genuine Sith Lord. Lumiya after the Battle of Endor and the destruction of the Second Death Star she became a genuine Sith Apprentice - but with no master and being a cyborg she could not ascend to mastery. Even if you are an apprentice you are still a Sith - she strongly supported the Rule of Two and so Darth Caedus, Lumiya, are respectively part of Banes order. Please note that Vergere is questionable though.24.80.233.100 04:33, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
• I hate to repeat myself but, Lumiya followed the Rule of Two, she trained Darth Caedus who took the title of Dark Lord of the Sith and trained one apprentice. Now even if the close observance of the Rule of Two does not make this a part of the Order of the Sith Lords then perhaps the fact that Lumiya later admitted she was not a Sith Master in the first book of Legacy of the Force should convince you. Also Caedus viewed himself to be "picking up the ball they dropped" (Bloodlines pg?) in refernce to his continuing the heritage of his grandfather from the ORDER OF THE SITH LORDS, Darth Vader. I have numerous other indicators like this one and I can get the exact pages quite easily.--24.82.153.0 05:51, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
• The "picking up the ball they dropped" actually refers to the High Council of the Old Jedi Order in how they failed to train ANAKIN SKYWALKER properly - it should be noted that Caedus (1) followed the Rule of Two, (2) Lumiya said she was not a sith MASTER and but Jacen could become one (Betrayal pg?) (3) that Jacen was remarkably similar to Darth Vader and that he was trying to follow what he knew of Darth Vectivus both of whom are members of Banes Order. Here's something else to consider - there is no requirement that a member of the sith order be trained by one with the power of a sith master - Lumiya had the knowledge but lacked the ability (tempest?) she remarks that she can teach Jacen the sith form of battle meditation because *paraphrase*--a blinded painter can still remember and describe colours--24.80.233.100 06:36, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

TahiriEdit

• Aren't we gonna include Tahiri Veila in the article?
• Caedus makes her his sith apprentice in Revelation, so I have added her --Qorl killed Unnh 22:59, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Alema RarEdit

I think we should mention Alema Rar here, as although she wasn't sith, she was kinda a Sith minion of Lumiya --Qorl killed Unnh 22:59, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

• I agree, although I don't think we should have her there as any other member. Possibly with a note or something that she was only a servant and not a master or apprentice.

Back to the Sith Lords issueEdit

It seems that we have some new information to considder now. It seems that not only was Lumiya only a Sith in the Legacy Era, but that Flint, Jax, and so on aren't really Sith at all. Thoughts on how to handle this one? Din's Fire 997 21:16, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

"Although the Rule of Two prevented Vader from taking on a true apprentice, he did pass his teachings to pupils, notably the Dark Lady of the Sith, Lumiya. She trained several apprentices during this era, but they are not truly Sith because Lumiya herself does not become full-fledged Sith until her training by Vergere in the Legacy era.

In The New Jedi Order era, the Sith are all but extinct. It is only through the training of Vergere that Lumiya becomes a true Dark Lady of the Sith. Dark Jedi characters would be more appropriate.

During the Confederation-Galactic Alliance War, the Dark Lady Lumiya resurrected the Rule of Two and found herself the perfect apprentice -- the grandson of Darth Vader. Jacen Solo followed in his ancestor's footsteps and became Darth Caedus". ~A quote from that article. That means Lumiya should be considered part of the Order of Sith Lords. She brought it back and was trained by Apprentices to the Dark Lord of The Sith.

• The Rule of 2 states that there can only be two sith in the galaxy at any one time. Lumiya knew of the existance of Darth Krayt and the New Sith Order, but did nothing to stop them, so was clearly breaking the rule. She only supported the Rule of 2 as far as it supported her aims, as she didn't need more than one apprentice, she needed only Jacen for her plan to get the Sith back in power to succeed. Also, the Order of the Sith Lords requires all members to call themselves "Darth" and take the title "Dark Lord of the Sith", regardless of gender. Lumiya isn't "Darth Lumiya" and she called herself "Dark Lady of the Sith",, so she clearly went against the traditions of the Order and probably didn't consider herself a member of it --Jinzler 09:16, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
  • Lumiya's status as a Sith is a completely separate issue (besides, her training under Vader was limeted - she only became a Sith under Vergere, and thus was probably not very well informed on such traditions). The problem is that no one trained by Lumiya before 40 ABY counts as a Sith at all, and thus this article probably shouldn't exist. Din's Fire 997 02:32, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
    • According to The Emperor's Pawns, Carnor Jax claimed the title "Dark Lord of the Sith". While he may not have been Sith, he considered himself to be one, so the title "Lumiya's Sith" is perhaps appropriate, in the same way that the Brothers of the Sith and the Sith Shadows weren't actual Sith. Also, this article should exist because, regardless of their status as Sith, they can still be a loosely-formed organization of Dark Jedi that deserves its own article --Jinzler 13:11, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
      • Also, DLOTS do NOT have to call themselves Darth. That's totally optional. Thanos6 13:18, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

If we take what Lumiya said about Vergere being Sith as true, then shouldn't Vergere be in the Order of the Sith Lords article as well. Lumiya said that Vergere trained under Darth Sidious before leaving to hide among the Yuuzhan Vong. Vergere even tried to kill Sidious and if that isn't dedication to the Rule of Two then what is? --JMasterWor 20:49, October 9, 2009 (UTC)

But Lumiya never officaly recreated the Sith, After the Death of Vader and the Emperor she was the only person who could take the mantel of Dark Lord of the Sith, she isnt the only Sith in the history of the Sith that hasn't been fully trained in the ways of the Sith, Count Dooku for example, he was still a Dark Lord of the Sith in Bane's order even though he clearly wasnt trained in all the sith tequniques that Maul and Sidious were tought, even Vader learnings will have been restrictive she proclaimed her self dark lord of the Sith she didn't recreate the Sith order, like the order of the sith lords there was a master and an apprentice no more and no less. ░▒▓ Alex | Talk ▓▒░ 12:21, January 18, 2010 (UTC)

Sith organization succession box Edit

I have removed the second box because there is no evidence nore reason to suggest when the deciples of ragnos started that lumiya's sith order stopped operating untill the end of the deciples of ragnos, so ive changed it put concurrent above the box. Alexsau1991 15:12, 10 December 2008 (UTC)