Talk:Potentium

From Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki.

This Followers section is highly inaccurate, as most of these people weren't actually Potentium Heretics. QuentinGeorge 06:24, 27 Oct 2005 (UTC)

I like this entry and it is true to the Potentium philosophy. as for the speculated followers, their philosophy is the potentium believe, though they called it something else or wern´t official followers, they believed in the same things. so, good article! and right with what I read.

• Should we distinguish between those who actively promote the specifics of the Potentium view supported by those cast out of the Jedi Order and those who do not believe in strict definitions of "good" and "bad" Force sides? --SparqMan 18:00, 13 Nov 2005 (UTC)
• I didn't realize they had introduced any overt followers of the Potentium other than Darth Chicken before the NJO. Just a bunch of people who were sympathizers, or who held a similar but not explicitly identical view. —Darth Culator (talk) 18:15, 13 Nov 2005 (UTC)
  • IMHO, the followers section needs to be a total overhaul, and point out that the people listed aren't potentiumites, but rather hold a few views in common (but not all). QuentinGeorge 10:21, 13 Dec 2005 (UTC)
  • It's even worse now! Aaargh! Barriss is not a follower of the Potentium, for pity's sake. QuentinGeorge 20:03, 13 Dec 2005 (UTC)
    • The Barriss reference was in this article for a long time, and I simply added some additional info. She has beliefs close to the Potentium view. Not to mention beliefs that seem to contradict what most Jedi believe. I don't understand why the Barriss article doesn't even mention Barriss' beliefs/views of the Force and emotions...especially given the fact that they seem to be different from what most Jedi believe.
• Very inaccurate. there is nothing to indicate that the Jedi in the Followers section are potentium believers, mostly speculation. They are probably just grey like a lot of jedi throughout the EU. I say purge any the references to Jedi and leave the Sekotans in there. --Razzy1319 05:09, 2 Jan 2006 (UTC)
  • I'd leave two Jedi there... Vergere and Jacen Solo... it should also be said that Luke Skywalker followed this view for a while, but then later changed his mind about the belief. --Tikaheta 20:06, 7 Jan 2006 (UTC)
    • Please quote a specific instance when the word potentium was described as thier beleifs --Razzy1319 01:29, 8 Jan 2006 (UTC)
      • I concur. There is circumstantial but no concrete evidence that the Potentium is the New Understanding of Vergere and Jacen. Indeed, if it were, it's logical to assume the authors would refer to it as the Potentium at least once. Instead the most convenient handle we are given is the "New Understanding" or maybe "Vergere's Way". Further, the Potentium never sets out the philosophy of self-knowledge the way the New Understanding does. Mind you I think OUR argument here is a reflection of a very weak wrtier's bible for Force phiolosophy. I beleive some tried to remedy this without success, primarily because Star Wars does not thrive on philosophy so much as it does on feeling. I'm a philosophy major so this is an understandable point of consternation for me. The New Understanding of Traitor and Destiny's Way sets forth a Transcendental self-knowledge focus but doesn't destroy personal morality. Indeed, on Csilla and elsewhere in the Yuuzhan Vong War, Jacen acts with great morality. It's only in the Swarm War series, where Jacen must slowly become a threat, that this is twisted into a position that there is no morality. I think the real problem is one common to people who approach Nihilism. Like the real Universe, the Force doesn't care. It encompases all possibilities. But the Jedi should, nay MUST care. That is what it means to be a Jedi. This excerpt from Traitor illustrates my point. Jacen is speaking to Vergere before Nom Anor shows himself and offers Anakin's Lightsaber.

• • • • • "Nothing means anything"
        • "Not even your brother's death?"
        • He shrugged listlessly. Life, death - all was one. One with the Force. He said, "The Force doesn't care."
        • "Don't you care?"...
        • ..."Whether I care doesn't matter either."
        • Corners of her mouth tricked up and down. "Does it matter to you?"
        • He stared at his hands.
        • After a long, lond silence, he sighed. "Yes. Yes it does."

• • • • This is a classic cheerful Nihilism situation. Yes the universe might not care but we do. In this way, the New Understanding serves both Nihilism and Transcendentalism. Nihilism by emphasizing the uncaring nature of... well... nature and Transcendentalism (specifically Emersonian Transcendentalism) by raising the specter and importance of the individual. --KnnOs 05:55, 10 Jan 2006 (UTC)

Doesn't Kyle Katarn sort of follow this, especially in Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast, when he's slinging around lightning and grip? Or should that go under a different category?

• Well, that was certainly...um...what? I...um...(starts banging head against the keyboard). -- SFH 06:11, 10 Jan 2006 (UTC)

• • Thank you KnnOs! While I didn't get quite all of your terminology, you make the point that many out there (including Troy Denning) do not appreciate: If you must choose, you must choose well. Vergere does not deny the dark side, nor does she refute evil, as the Potentium fans out there do. Rather, to make Jacen understand the consequences of his actions, she brings the dark side closer. It is just as easy to understand it as an internal force than an external one--Erl 22:48, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
    • Also, I'd like to point out that every Jedi has a philosophy about the Force. Mace has one (See Shatterpoint). Yoda has one (See Dark Rendezvous). Qui-gon has one (See Cloak of Deception). Luke has one (See every post-RotJ EU book except Dark Nest) Kyp Durron has one (see anything where he yells at someone). And so on. Categorizing them under the article of a movement they don't follow is not a good idea.--Erl 22:55, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 Potentium is false according to the SW RPG 2 Category 3 "Gray Jedi"? 4 Lucas 5 Behind the Scenes Correction 6 Awesome

[edit] Potentium is false according to the SW RPG

Until I learned of this fact I was joyfully thinking the Potentium was the "real" Force, and better yet, emcompassed any other view in stead of contradicting them. However, as the RPG arbitrarily states, backed up by Leland Chee no less, the Jedi view of the Force is the real one, and Potentium is only misguidedness.

Should this be included in a "Behind the scenes" category? It would save a lot of people a great deal of dissappointment to learn immediately upon reading about the Potentium that it is considered false by Lucas Film and Licencing. Just for clarification? I know it would have saved me from getting my hopes up. DarthMRN

Where did you see this? Do you have a link?

-ChurroKradd

• No link, but is says so in an OOU manner on page 34 of the SW RPG: Power of the Jedi Sourcebook.

On another note, that same paragraph claims that the Potentium followers doesn't believe using the dark side could potentially lead them to evil. I thought one of the main credo of the Potentium was to embrace the Force as a whole, but being mindful of their own dark sides.DarthMRN 18:07, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

I also find the Star Wars RPG (at least by WotC) to be somewhat... less than reliable as a source, given that at points it directly contradicts G-level canon. (An example of this would be when it describes Yoda as straining to lift Luke's X-Wing out of the swamp, when he had just said "size matters not" - in the 3.0 core rulebook, this was removed in the revised core rulebook) 74.138.216.108 01:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Category

I didn't find the Potentium anywhere in the list of Force Organizations, nor is there a category link at the bottom. Would somebody who understands the mess that is Category: Force-based Organizations fix it?DarthMRN 01:44, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Gray Jedi"?

Under "Followers": "Although many believe that Luke Skywalker's New Jedi Order practiced this belief after the Yuuzhan Vong War through Jacen Solo's insistence, it was actually closer to the philosophy of Gray Jedi as stated by the Grand Master himself after the Liberation of Coruscant." As see on the Gray Jedi page, being a Gray Jedi has nothing to do with the dark/light dichotomy. I don't know what the Luke statement is, but the NJO's philosophy was a completely different thing from Gray Jedi (in fact, by the definition of Gray Jedi, no main Jedi Order could be, since that would require them to operate independently from themselves) - Lord Hydronium 01:27, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

• In addition, on the Gray Jedi page itself there isn't really a clear discussion of what a Gray Jedi actually believes; it's largely discussion of who happens to be one, and what they do sometimes. A solid definition of Gray Jedi philosophy would be largely helpful, and if that's not possible, then the term 'philosophy of Gray Jedi' should be removed.

[edit] Lucas

Did he not explicitly state that the Force had a Light and Dark Side? Is that not G-level Canon? Someone help me out here. Jachra 20:11, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, I'm not sure if he's said that himself in an interview. The Jedi in his films certainly say so, but you have to understand that it's a matter of interpretation. There's no way to really know in the empirical sense, and the light side and dark side may well just be constructions created so that people could easily categorize the evildoers practicing the force from the altruists. As millenia passed, different secret techniques and different attributes began to be associated with these terms. There's no way to prove that the Force is anything more than a tool used by many different men with differing ambitions, itself neither inherently good nor evil. Of course, Lucas may have smashed this all by saying at one point that the Jedi were correct with their light side/dark side theory, but I don't know about that. 71.198.98.233 00:59, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Behind the Scenes Correction

Jedi vs. Sith never states that the Potentium philosophy actually was a Sith scheme. It only says that "some have theorized" it to be. Gukkor 01:00, 23 February 2008 (UTC)Gukkor

[edit] Awesome

What an awesome theory, I totally agree with it, its kind of like buddhism, and Jolee Bindo is definately a Potentium kind of Jedi aswell. FTR, I like Kreia, alot of people find her annoying but i thinks shes awesome! lol Pandæmonium 06:07, 9 April 2008 (UTC)