Talk:Rakata

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Article milestones Date Process Result 26 December 2007 Featured article candidate Failure 10 January 2008 Failed featured article candidate
Current status: Failed featured article candidate

Contents 1 Support 2 Rejoining the galaxy 3 Ongree 4 Rakata dates 5 Perhaps the force decided to leave the Rakata? 6 Rakatan Jedi/Sith? 7 Sourceless? 8 Exaggeration? 9 Mon Calamari? 10 Infobox image 11 Rakata in Ep II 12 Rakata Lightsabers 13 Extinction 14 Human Slavery 15 language

[edit] Support

Which tribe did Revan support canonically? --User:SFH

• The priests, whatever they were called. The canon is that Revan exclusively did "light side" actions. --Imp 18:45, 8 Aug 2005 (UTC)
• They were called the elders.--Dumac 22:56, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rejoining the galaxy

"However, almost no one they came across believed their stories about the Infinite Empire or their invention of the Hyperdrive. Most people consider them jokers or charlatans." - Where does this info come from? Kuralyov 19:09, 27 Aug 2005 (UTC)

• This is an old question, but for anyone else curious about this, it's from an item in KOTOR II called the "Rakatan band", describing them as a race of liars who claimed responsibility for every major development in the galaxy. - Lord Hydronium 00:31, 15 Jan 2006 (UTC)

Exactly where does it say the Rakata are the "elders" from Naboo? Notice that all the elder statues look more human?

• Nowhere. This is just an additional comment. Btw the statues are indeed human, however the Elders themselves are reptilian. See the article. MoffRebus 00:30, 15 Jan 2006 (UTC)
  • What? Since when has the appearance of the Elders from Naboo been stated? If anything, they are humanoid. (Actually, the statues look Chalactan, but that's another thing altogether....QuentinGeorge 00:49, 15 Jan 2006 (UTC)
    • i don't know, the article says so, originally it was stated in Naboo article. The sources can be any one of these: The Phantom Menace Visual Dictionary, Inside the Worlds of Star Wars Episode I, A Guide To the Star Wars Universe or Secrets of Naboo MoffRebus 01:28, 15 Jan 2006 (UTC)
    • Just one question: doesn't the KotOR II remark mean that the Rakatan weren't the rulers of the Infinite Empire after all? Do we know for sure that they were anything more than a race of slaves who took control of Rakata Prime and claimed its ruins for their own? And is it just me who wonders if they're related to the Gungans...? --McEwok 15:05, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
      • According to the New Essential Chronology the Rakata were the founders and rulers of the Infinite Empire. What remark are you referring to?--Sentry 23:05, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
        • The remarks associated with the object called the "Rakatan Band" in KotOR II - it's apparently a visor that helps you see through the pretentions of a race of liars and decievers who claimed to have founded Galactic civilization; maybe it's humans, rather than the Rakata, that it's referring to - but the New Essential Chronology is in-universe, as well, and doesn't constitute "proof"... --McEwok 13:06, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
          • What do you mean it's in-universe and doesn't constitute proof? It's officially licensed and does constitute proof. - Sikon [Talk] 13:35, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
            • No, it's officially licensed, and constitutes high-grade canon evidence; it's also recent, which adds weight of a sort; but in the end analysis, it only really tells us that Voren Na'al thinks the Rakata were the leaders of the Infinite Empire... I'd agree that that's still what the majority of the evidence indicates, but the "Ratakan band" may hint at an alternative interpretation. --McEwok 18:16, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
              • I am sorry to be so frank, but this is the most lame sort of fan speculation. You are taking a minor piece of information out of context and blowing it way out of proportion. The purpose of that snippet of information within KOTOR:TSL was simply to imply, quite justifiably, that no one believed the Rakata's tales. It does not have any ramifications beyond that point.--Sentry 18:30, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
                • So, let me get this straight - you're suggesting that the "Ratakan band" allows you to see the Rataka's claims as false even though they're actually true? That doesn't make much sense to me - though I don't own KotOR II myself, so maybe I've misunderstood what the game says (and maybe it refers to humans, not the Rataka). Of course, if the designers have said that the Rataka are meant to be the Infinite Empire's founders, then that certainly adds weight to the supposition that they were - but if you're just assuming based on what the game characters and the NEC's in-universe authorial POV believe - well, is that proof? --McEwok 21:39, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
                  • For one thing, the NEC is both in AND outside the Star Wars universe. Its entire purpose is to establish an authoritative continuity. Everything said in the NEC is canon... As for the rest of your argument, you are putting far too much thought into a RPG game mechanic. The Rakata band was an easter egg added by Obsidian and I very much doubt LucasArts gave them the authority to override the continuity established by BioWare for the sake of a joke *rolls eys*. Lastly, if you haven't played the game, why are you arguing about it? This discussion is getting ridiculous, this is the last reply for me...--Sentry 21:59, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
                    • Everything said in the NEC is canon - you have quotes to back this up? And, what "continuity" did Obsidian actually override? What proof beyond the claims of characters in a much later timeframe does KotOR offer that the Rakata were the real rulers of the Infinite Empire? --McEwok 22:41, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
                      • Maybe a better way of putting it would be "everything said in the NEC is canon until shown to be otherwise". Which, really, is the same as any other piece of literature. Yes, it's written from an IU perspective, but there would be no point in its existence if it were unreliable as a reference. The band thing in the game opens the possibility that the Rakata were wrong/lying, and such has been noted in the article, but you know very well that the NEC exists primarily as reference material, and should be relied upon as such. CooperTFN 23:05, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
                      • Well, I said that I wouldn't make any more comments. I guess that I lied :). Here is the actual description of the offending item:
                        http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/8005/jakatanband3rh.th.jpg--Sentry 01:37, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
                        • The band thing in the game opens the possibility that the Rakata were wrong/lying, and such has been noted in the article; I take it you mean "some were skeptical of the notion that the seemingly primitive beings had once ruled hundreds of worlds" at the end; on the whole, I think your POV is more sensible than mine... but perhaps a mild warning should go up at the start? And, Sentry: thanks for posting that! --McEwok 17:01, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
                          • It's one non-definitive sentence at the end of a fairly large article; I think that's mild enough. =) CooperTFN 20:50, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
                            • In KOTOR, Rakatan images and statues adorn almost every conceivable area in the Temple of the Ancients, similar statues are found on Tatooine. On Kashyyyk the old teraforming computer's holocron interface is in the likeness of a Rakata, and the Dantooine Overseer's first attempt at communication is in Rakatan. If the Rakata were not the Builders, but were in fact just slaves then they must have been really important slaves for the "real" Builders. Kampfy 10:55, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ongree

Might these aliens perhaps be related to Ongree??? Master Secura

Ooh, they do look quite similar, i suppose it could be possible that there was an offshoot species during their reign, one that perhaps was shunned by the Rakatan, hence them not getting revolted against --Darth Timor 16:26, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rakata dates

• Is it just me, or does the chronological information on the Rakata in this article seem to contradict the chronological information at The Official Site of KOTOR? Jaywin 15:02, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
  • The dates all come straight from the game and the NEC. As primary sources, they supersede the website which states:

.--Sentry 20:03, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Perhaps the force decided to leave the Rakata?

It seems like everything that has to do with the force has a scientific explanation but perhaps the force decided to leave the Rakata because the Rakata were abusing it by creating such perversions like the Star Forge? --Dumac 22:57, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

• This assumes the Force has a will, which is controversial. And in any case it's speculation and shouldn't be included in the article. - Sikon [Talk] 02:57, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Now, here's the thing. The info presented on the KOTOR site is present SHORTLY BEFORE THE ENDAR SPIRE GETS BLOWN INTO SPACE DUST! It mentions Taris as a planet that is in THREAT of being occupied, not has been occupied. It talks of Malak as an impedending threat to the Galaxy, not as a Sith Lord who nearly conquered the Galaxy but died trying. IN THE REAL WORLD WE CLASSIFIED SEVERAL SPECIES OF BUGS AS EXTINCT UNTILL THEY TUNRED UP ALIVE YEARS OR EVEN DECADES LATER!!!!! And the Galaxy is a far larger place and they were lost a longer period of time. Had this article been from the time of the Vong invasion, they would not have had to "guess" about the culture or anatomy or language!!! Is it too hard to beleive that scientists could not have made guesses and observations about the Rakata, and even NAMED THEM while they were presumed to be extinct!!! Since everyone agrees that the Rakata contacted the rest of the Galaxy shortly before you assume they died out, than their culture and anatomy would have been known! I am removing the section saying the Rakata are extinct as this has been discredited by the above argument. ELV

• I honestly do not understand your logic and the fact that you resorted to typing in caps and using multiple exclamation marks (the web equivalent of shouting) does not help your case. The article is correct. Darth Bane: Path of Destruction states that the Rakata were extinct.–Sentry^Talk 00:38, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

• • Ok then, I do not read the comics, so I could not have known that, and I apologize for not knowing it. However, the KOTOR site is clearly displaying data that was from the period RIGHT before you jump into the game. To understand this, take a look at the file for Taris. I will give you the details below.

---

Exerpt------------------------------------------

Located on the Outer Rim, in the very fringes of Republic space, the grandeur of the city- world of Taris was once said to rival the galactic capital of Coruscant itself. But the glory of ancient Taris has long since faded, and much of the once magnificent metropolis has fallen into ruin and disrepair.

The rich and powerful have segregated themselves in the Upper City, dwelling in the highest reaches of the towering skyscrapers that dominate the planet's landscape. Here the nobility surround themselves with the trappings of prosperity, oblivious to the suffering of those who are forced to dwell far below them.

Descending into the slums of the Lower City, the signs of urban decay become undeniable. Filth and refuse litter the streets, and burned out vehicles and shattered windows serve as stark reminders of the violent wars of the swoop gangs vying for control. Citizens of the Lower City - non-human aliens and those not born into the privileged classes of society - struggle to survive amidst the permacrete wasteland, clinging to the small hope that they may one day escape their grim and violent surroundings.

But at least those in the Lower City have hope. For those banished beneath the planet's surface – the Outcasts – all hope is gone. Those driven into the dark and sunless world of the Undercity must band together in small villages in a wretched, never-ending struggle to survive. Starvation and disease claim many, and the rakghouls - mutated, flesh-eating monsters who dwell in the sewers beneath Taris - claim even more.

Above all this misery, the Upper City shines and the nobility live a life of wealth and comfort. But even they are vulnerable, for Taris is located far from the protection of the Galactic Core and the Republic fleet. And the Sith Armada has taken notice.

---

Exerpt------------------------------------------

If this violates the "do not copy directly" rule, than I apoligize again, but I think that the KOTOR premier website is Public domain.

You can notice a few things: The exiles are seen as having "no hope," when, in canon, it would appear that they were in the best position to have survived Malak's "Scorched Taris" order, being below the surface. There is STRONG circumstancial evidence to say that Taris was rebuilt and repopulated after the end of the war, so if the website was from the Zuuzhan Vong era, would it not have made mention of the exiles? Furthermore, in the article about the Rakata itself, there are several discrepancies.

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Exerpt------------------------------------------

Republic Archives Archeological Studies Division Subject Species: Rakata Status: Extinct

In the field of galactic archeology, the Rakata species presents researchers with an anomaly. The Republic has been in existence since the arrival of hyperspace travel 20,000 years ago. Before that time, all known races could barely escape their own solar systems, and little information was shared between worlds. The Rakatas, however, appear to have been exempt from that rule. Hints of their one-time presence seem to be buried on myriad worlds, though this evidence is often contested due to the difficulty in recognizing such remnants. This is an understandable impediment given the length of time that has elapsed since their passing.

It is estimated that the Rakata civilization ceased to exist nearly 30,000 years ago, the height of its power predating the Republic by ten millennia. The scarcity of remains suggests that they were either very careful with access to their resources, or that attempts were made to intentionally remove any trace of their passing once they had gone. Both hypotheses tend to suggest that the Rakatas did not arrive on these worlds as ambassadors or merchants. No other species appears to have been so widespread, and yet so thoroughly purged from the galactic record.

While defining the Rakata culture is confined to guesswork, researchers have had better luck reconstructing the anatomy of the species. This has involved studying many ancient records, including the scrawled drawings of various peoples just developing sentience at the time. Artifacts, when they could be found, have also been analyzed to determine the shape of hand they were designed for, and the musculature that would have found them comfortable to use. This has resulted in a fairly clear physical portrait of these early galactic pioneers, though what became of their empire remains unknown.

---

Exerpt------------------------------------------

Here again, are several further discrepancies. If everyone agrees the Rakata established contact with the Galactic community sometime between the obliteration of the Star Forge and the mention that they are dead, which everyone seems to agree on, than there would be NO guesswork involved in their culture, anatomy, or anything else, as there would be living subjects that would have been studied. Furthermore, the Republic is spoken of as an ongoing entity in this data, rather than as a entity that has ceased to exist a few times over the years.

Again, I acknoledge that I overlooked that info on the comics, as I do not read them, I just want to show the fallancy that many people seem to make about accepting the data on the KOTOR site as up-to-date-modern data.ELV

[edit] Rakatan Jedi/Sith?

He also aided the Rakata's efforts to regain their lost Force sensitivity which would eventually allow them to rejoin the galactic community.
According to this article, the Rakata regained their Force-sensitivity after the Jedi Civil War. Does this mean that there are, or could be, Rakatan Jedi/Dark Jedi in the future? Also, did the Rakata have a seat in the Senate? Juan Sii'tal 18:31, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Probably not as i don't think anyone saw them as an important species, everyone thought them liars and Revan had gone off adventuring so i doubt they'd had a seat in the senate, as for the jedi/sith thing, i don't know, again that's hoping that anyone would train them, i doubt jedi would explore out that far, so they wouldn't find them to begin training, but i suppose there could be Dark Jedi Rakata out there--Darth Timor 16:32, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sourceless?

• Huh? How is this sourceless? maybe its a candidate for "more source" but sourceless?
  • It's because of that section on post-civil war which has sources requested for it. The rest of the article is sourced. Green tentacle 09:40, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
    • Most of it was fanon. I've fixed it. - Angel Blue 451 23:05, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Exaggeration?

Could the Ratakans perhaps have been exaggerating when they described their empire? It seems like hundreds of worlds is not too vast, and maybe they're just caught up in their own egos, so to speak. -Blackhawk003

• The empire was quite large, but it didn't rule all that many worlds because of the limitations of the Rakatan hyperdrive.–Sentry^Talk 04:07, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Large for the times, that is. Nowadays, it would be dwarfed even by minor Galactic powers in the 20 million world Galaxy. Lord Patrick 21:54, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mon Calamari?

I was wondering if any one else has thought of this theory?

Oceans contain more life per square meter than land dose, so it would make sense the Rakata could travel to ocean planets like Dac. The Mon Calamari could be the descendents of Rakata that colonized Dac.

This was just a thought since they are very similar biologically.Darth Awar

• It's only a theory and we can't add that to the article per speculation. -- Riffsyphon1024 07:51, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Wow! I have virtually the same theory! But as Riff said, fan speculation isn't allowed, only canon info. Lord Patrick 21:55, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
    • Could the similarity be added in triva or something?, sorry for the late response i never got the update email. -- Awar 06:48, 24 June 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Infobox image

Why was the infobox image changed? Sorry, but the old one (File:Rakata.jpg) was much better than the ugly, muddy new one (File:Thredrakata.jpg). What was the point in changing it?--85.195.123.26 20:47, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't know... but the other image is also used in other articles. There is no point showing it everywhere. It's good to have more pics of Rakatas to show. MoffRebus 21:03, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rakata in Ep II

I'm pretty sure there's a Rakata in AOTC in the arena when all the jedi draw their lightsabers and the one next to Kit Fisto looks just like a Rakata. Anyone got the HD-DVD? Gustafar 12:00, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

• Is it this guy? -- I need a name (Complain here) 18:28, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
• Yeah, thanks for clearing that out. Gustafar 13:49, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rakata Lightsabers

Did the Rakata use light sabers during the infinite empire?

doubt it since they didn't exist then. AdmirableAckbar 22:44, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

• Answer: no. Unit 8311 16:28, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Extinction

Now i think, personally, the rakata are brilliant therefore i think that ending the post republic bit with: eventually became extinct, or something, is a bit of a rubbish ending the the most important race in galactic history. They are why tatooine is covered in sand and why kashyyk is covered in trees and korriban is er.... evil. Am i the only one who thinks this a bit of an insult to them

No, no your not I think it is an insult to them to and if I'm not mistaken it once said the Rakata had moved to another world and were redescovered by the Galactic Alliance.

[edit] Human Slavery

There seems to be a problem with the idea of Rakata having human slaves. In Knights of the Old Republic, the Overseer in the Rakatan Temple on Dantooine claimed that Revan and Nemo, who were humans, were unfamiliar, that they were neither of the same race as one of the Builders, nor one of the slave races. Wildcard 21:53, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

• Yeah, it is a continuity error caused by the NEC.–Sentry^Talk 09:23, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Or the sentry was created before the humans were subdued. MoffRebus 09:25, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
  • That would be a retcon to disguise the error, yes. It's very annoying that the NEC would contradict the game like this, though. (86.1.172.195 03:52, 3 August 2009 (UTC))

[edit] language

the first time you here the language on kotor you dont understand it. but when you here it on lehon you understand it. can you tell me how he under stood the second time.

Not done this before so this'll be done all wrong, could someone post this idea properly when this has to be deleted? Thanks. The reason for this is because Revan understood Rakatan which is obviously what the Rakata elders were speaking on Lehon, however the sentry will have known it wasn't speaking to the builders, thus it will not have spoken their primary language and will have been speaking slave species's languages, which it did for certain eventually when it cycled through to find one they understood. —Unsigned comment by 86.162.215.52 (talk • contribs).