Since this is the proper title for a Sith Apprentice (as confirmed here) should we merge Sith Apprentice here? - Kwenn 22:04, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

• Well, Sith apprentice is the more common term, is it not? Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 22:07, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
  • The only reason it was worded as such is that it's supposed to be the Sith equivalent to the Jedi's Padawan rank. Randy Starkiller 22:48, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
    • But still, most sources would use "Sith apprentice", not Shadow Hand. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 22:52, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
      • I think it should be merged, since "Sith Apprentice" isn't really a real title as much as what we called the titleless apprentice of a Sith. It¿s like the words "Jedi Apprentice", well many sources can use this, but the official title is "Padawan" --Sauron18 17:53 29 June 2006 (CDT)
        • Whatever... But it seems like there are two types of Shadow Hands, then. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 22:54, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
          • What do you mean? --Sauron18 17:56 29 June 2006 (CDT)
      • I realize that, just pointing out that I worded it as such because I felt the relationship is informative. Apologies if it didn't jive with what most sources would use, I felt that was the obvious aspect of the term. I just thought the relationship between the two would be an interesting point. :P Randy Starkiller 22:57, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
        • Yeah, we have Shadow Hand = the second in command to the Sith'ari and then Shadow Hand = a Sith apprentice. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 22:58, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
          • I thought it just meant the Sith'ari's Shadow Hand was his apprentice, which would coincide with Adas' Shadow Hand getting the holocron (knowledge), and then the Shadow Hand of the next King helping the Exiles betray him (like the apprentices do). --Sauron18 18:00 29 June 2006 (CDT)
            • Yeah, but Darth Plagueis wasn't King Plagueis. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 00:08, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
              • "Shadow Hand" was not limited to Adas or to the title of "King", as Abel said, he intended it to be the Sith version of Padawan. If he hadn't told us then I would agree with you, but "Sith Apprentice" is akin to "Jedi Apprentice", it's a term for it but not the term, it's not Padawan. --Sauron18 19:24 29 June 2006 (CDT)
                • And did Abel post this in a canonical source? Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 00:26, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
                  • As canonical as the images currently in use for Belia Darzu and the Dark Underlord. As canonical as the information that there are thousands of Sith in the Legacy era. He expanded on an already canonized source, and that seems to be canon enough for the wookie. --Sauron18 19:33 29 June 2006 (CDT)
                    • Is it in a canonical source, or a blog? Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 00:37, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
• He expanded on an observation of the article:

"Basically. More or less the Sith equivalent of Padawan. It came to mean that, anyway. Thus why Darth Maul (and some of these Legacy Sith) is referred to as Darth Sidious' "Hand" in various sources."

That's his statement, it's in a forum, but he's expanding on it, as he did on Belia and numerous other things regarding the article, that have been changed here without conflict. --Sauron18 19:33 29 June 2006 (CDT)

• That should not be taken as a source, though, until it's in an official source. I trust Abel, but I think we should hold off on all this "Shadow Hand = Sith apprentice" until it's been confirmed. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 00:49, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Then I guess we should also remove images of Belia Darzu and the Dark Underlord? Abel just expanded on it, he's telling us what he meant in the article.--Sauron18 19:50 29 June 2006 (CDT)
    • I have no problem with images; it's just this information. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 00:52, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
      • See that's what doesn't make sense. Both are equally official, both deserve their place. --Sauron18 19:54 29 June 2006 (CDT)
        • Yet something in a blog isn't neccissarily canon. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 00:54, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
          • You are denying the canonicity of something that comes from the identical source of something you accept. --Sauron18 19:56 29 June 2006 (CDT)
            • If Abel says something in a blog, it does not mean it's canon, Sauron18. If it says it in a canonical source, then it's canon. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 11:49, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
              • We've accepted the word of VIPs from forums and blogs many times before. Perhaps we should remove the Dramatis Personnae for Bloodlines, since that was posted in a forum? Or how about discounting the official ages and EU deaths of characters as posted by Abel on his Blog? This isn't the same as how we regard the word of an author like Zahn. Abel is linked directly to Lucas Licensing, so basically his word is C-canon gospel. It's the same if Sue Rostini says something on a forum; it's taken as official - Kwenn 11:53, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
                • What about the whole doppelgänger of Dooku thing? Care to explain how Abel's words are canon there? Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 11:58, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
                  • I have nothing against Abel, but I'd prefer seeing it in a more canonical source first. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 11:58, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
                    • Firstly, his opinion on the doppelganger thing was backed up by an official source (Fact Files) and, moreover, it was only discounted because it was contradicted by other sources. This isn't contradicted; Shadow Hand is the actual name for a Sith apprentice, just as Padawan is the actual name for a Jedi apprentice. Sources stil use "Jedi apprentice" over "Padawan" - hell, including an entire book series - just as other sources use "Sith apprentice". But "Shadow Hand" is the actual name, unless there's a source somewhere that says, "Oh, by the way, Shadow Hand isn't the real name of a Sith apprentice. So there." - Kwenn 12:01, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
                      • But taking something from one blog and replacing Sith apprentice, which is how it is in every source it's mentioned, with this name, which would then have two meanings? Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 12:05, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
                        • We've done it before. Tavion Axmis to name one - Kwenn 12:06, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
                          • That's different, though, because it's adding a last name, which is very important to an article. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 12:08, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
                            • And having articles at the correct designation is also important - Kwenn 12:09, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
                              • Fine, do what you want with it. It's the worst idea ever to merge these articles, but I see no one else cares. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 12:10, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
• Well then, perhaps we should wait until others add their opinion, since it seems to be such a dividing issue. To be honest, I'm not really bothered if it remains as it is, but since it's been stated Shadow Hand is the correct name, I'd like to see it merged for accuracy's sake - Kwenn 12:14, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
  • If anyone else adds their opinions... Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 12:18, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Bastila Edit

After Bandon died, did that mean Malak bestowed the rank to Bastila after she became his new apprentice? Lord KOT 00:18, September 30, 2009 (UTC)