I've finally moved this to its own page, a good few months after suggesting it. Anyway, it's only intended to be very basic, since I know little about them. But what I was going to ask, is; do we know of anyone else who could see Shatterpoints? There are characters who seem to talk about the idea without stating it outright. Kreia, for example, went on and on about manipulating grand events by creating small ones. Probably just speculation, though, unless it's been written into continuity by someone since KOTORII --Fade 11:33, 24 Nov 2005 (UTC)

It's been a while since I've read the book, but I seem to recall that Yoda could view shatterpoints, but only when meditating and never as clearly as Mace could. Like most force powers it seems that practice can enable anyone with sufficient ability to use the skill, but not to do it well. --Anon80

Contents 1 Palpatine a shatterpoint? 2 Ulic Qel-Droma and Shatterpoint 3 Leia has an ability to perceive shatterpoints? 4 Real World Shatterpoints. 5 Shatterpoint's Ability to Destroy Objects 6 Did Luke Skywalker use the shatterpoint method? 7 Revan and Shatterpoints 8 Image? 9 ROTS

Palpatine a shatterpoint?Edit

I just added a change to this article, considering something I've thought of ever since seeing Episode III. My change consisted of the theory that Mace saw a shatterpoint in Palpatine during his final battle, causing him to wish to destroy the man immediately rather than trust him to the hands of the law. After his mistake much earlier of letting Count Dooku go, Mace could have been keen to follow his instincts and end the war then and there. Maelstrom.

• That sounds logical, but I'm removing it because it's really nothing more than a fan theory, which falls under the umbrella of fanon. --MarcK [talk] 22:29, 12 Jan 2006 (UTC)

Didn't they mention that Mace saw him as a shatterpoint in the ROTS novel? I may have to meditate on this. - someguy

• Mace saw the connections between Obi-Wan, Anakin and Palpatine as a massive shatterpoint. He also saw Anakin as THE shatterpoint, the pivot of the galaxy. And finally, he saw Palpatine's shatterpoint was the trust he placed in Anakin. Mace's assumption of course proves right when ol' Palps is too busy frying Luke to bother that his 'loyal' apprentice is sneaking up behind him.... - Kwenn 23:06, 12 Jan 2006 (UTC)

Well said - someguy

• Actually, if you've read the novelization, you'll know that Anakin was the one shatterpoint Mace failed to see because he had been concentrating on Palpatine. Interestingly, Palpatine seemed to know this, which is why during the entire confrontation on the window ledge he was speaking to Anakin and not Mace... perhaps Palpatine could percieve shatterpoints as well? Just a theory... --Thetoastman 17:00, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

This stuff about Palpatine and Anakin all ought to be in the article. I'm going to check out the novcel again so that I can get the details. George B. (talk) 22:15, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

I beilve jacen solo was also able to see shatterpoints as he did this at least twice in betrayal 69.26.85.17 03:03, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Ulic Qel-Droma and ShatterpointEdit

I was just wondering if Ulic ever used Shatterpoint, cause in one comic everybody is trying to kill King Ommin but nobody cna get close to him and then Ulic goes and kills him in a single move, and he kills Warb Null in a single move. He also defeats Mandalore the Indomitable in a single move. It seems like he is finding these people's shatterpoints and exploiting them.

Leia has an ability to perceive shatterpoints?Edit

I realized that if there's no source then a topic on the talk page should be added. Where is it mentioned that Leia perceives shatterpoints? And what "form" of shatterpoints, the "mental" or "physical"? Nanook 21:39, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

• True. I would like a source also especially since in 40ABY, Jaina Solo thought that this art was extinct until she saw Caedus doing it, meaning she didn't know that her own mother was able to use this ability (that is, if she could) NighthawkLeader 06:15, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Real World Shatterpoints.Edit

Shatterpoints kinda actually exist in the real world. Chaos Theory. Chaos Theory describes how small changes in systems known as dynamic systems can have a dramatic effect on not only short term but also long term events. An excellent analogy would be a football match (I'm refering to AFL - aka Australian Football League - but the concept is sound nommater what brand of football you follow). Fans often say (angrily) that if they hadn't missed all those goals, they wouldn't have lost. This is not necessarily true, as if one of those goals had been kicked, then the ball would have come back to the centre of the field, there would be differences in timing, there would be differences in team/crowd morale, player positioning would have been different, and well, everything would be different.

Dynamic systems are everywhere; in fact it's harder to find a non-dynamic system than it is to find a dynamic one.

With a basic knowledge of Chaos Theory, you will perceive the world in a completely different way (should I or shouldn't I go out? What will happen short/long term as a result?). And now we come to Star Wars: In Star Wars, there are shatterpoints everywhere.

Thanks for reading.

Shatterpoint's Ability to Destroy ObjectsEdit

I think there's a mistake in the page as to when shatterpoint ability was first shown to be able to shatter actual objects. The page says, "It was later revealed that this power could also be used on objects to actually shatter the object by using the force to destroy the bonds that held an object together", and implies that the first time we see this happen is with Darth Caedus.

However, I believe shatterpoint is first used in this way by Mace Windu in Shatterpoint. Chapter 16, on page 297 of the paperback version, has this:

"Even hoarse with dust and pain, Vastor's growl had a sardonic edge. Better stand back. When you're around, big hard things seem to fall on my head.

Mace breathed himself into his center, and found the slab's shatterpoint. 'Don't move.'

His blade flared, bit in, and the slab cracked in two over Vastor's back. A shrug of Vastor's huge shoulders shifted the two pieces enough that he could push himself up to his knees between them."

I know it's kind of a small thing, but it does seem like the page inaccurately states that shatterpoint isn't shown to be capable of shattering objects until Darth Caedus does so in Invincible.

Did Luke Skywalker use the shatterpoint method?Edit

I was wondering if maybe Luke used shatterpoint to disable the failsafe implanted in Nick Rostu's head. Could he have?--DarthKenny 22:03, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Revan and ShatterpointsEdit

I gather there's some disagreement whether Revan shared Kreia's philosophy regarding shatterpoints/echos. Here's the conversation with HK I based the edit on:

HK: Recitation: For example, on Praven Prime, the simple transferring of L'Xing syntax for 'friendship' changes its meaning - and implies that one's brood mate was actually impregnated by their own host.You can imagine the results.

HK: Statement: This comment, of course, caused a civil war between the Gu-vandi Collective and L'Xing that still persists to the current date.

Exile: [Intelligence] Do any of these "incidents have any wider reprocussions?

HK: Answer: Yes, master, such incidents often spread outwards from their point of origin, much like an echo.

Exile: Why did you say that just now?

HK: Query: What do you mean, master?

Exile: The echo - why did you say that?

HK: Answer: It is something I heard a previous master say before, I believe. But I cannot recall the context. Still, somehow it seemed applicable to this situation. Odd.

24.68.45.165 08:34, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

Image?Edit

Are you sure that isn't just Mace Windu BREAKING GLASS? Just because he used them and "shatter" is in the name of this phenomenon, doesn't mean that Mace Windu is using a shatterpoint whenever he breaks glass... (- -) 11:34, April 27, 2010 (UTC)

ROTSEdit

Couldn't Mace be using shatterpoint to break Palps' window? It seems the most logical explanation. --Darth Praxus ^{(Did somebody order a miracle?)} 21:30, November 3, 2010 (UTC)