Talk: The Barsen'thor

Article milestones Date Process Result July 3, 2014 Featured article nomination Failure September 27, 2017 Failed Featured article nominee March 13, 2018 Featured article nomination Failure March 18, 2021 Failed Featured article nominee
Current status: Failed Featured article nominee

Flashpoint

Are the flashpoints considered canon? They have appeared on numerous articles about TOR characters. But do they count as canon? I'm not sure if they are so i haven't edited anything yet.

(Mattto123 09:00, May 14, 2012 (UTC))

Titles

So if we call Kallig "Darth Nox" because its the last title, and the Sith Warrior "Emperor's Wrath", we should still call the Consular "Barsen'thor", correct? And the Jedi Knight should still be "Hero of Tython", because they don't really get anything special afterwards except for Jedi Master and Jedi Council Member (well, consular gets ambassador of teral, but that's a different story) so we should still call the Consular "Barsen'thor" and the Knight "Hero of Tython", right? (Mattto123 11:29, May 14, 2012 (UTC))

• Correct. Though they may not be referred to as such until the end of Act I. Cade Calrayn 11:34, May 14, 2012 (UTC)
• So should I change the title of the "Unidentified Havoc Squad Commander" to "Havoc Squad Commander (Cold War)"? (Mattto123 11:39, May 14, 2012 (UTC))
  • No. There are two other Havoc Squad commanders during the Cold War. That article should remain there.
    • I thought they left havoc squad or betrayed it or something. Like I haven't played the trooper story yet, but I know there's a lot of traitors. Jace Malcom doesn't betray though, he just helps cause he feels he should help his allies. Also please sign your posts with ( ~ ~ ~ ~ )(Ignore the spaces, I just did that so I wouldn't double-sign).(Mattto123 22:35, May 14, 2012 (UTC))
    • I just read a wookieepedia article of harron tavus, he died at the end of the Cold war. (Mattto123 09:52, May 15, 2012 (UTC))
  • Also I'm still a bit skeptical about Kallig being called Darth Nox. It's not canon so... I don't really think that should be what it is. If you finish Sith Iniquisitor storyline at the end after you kill Thanaton, you don't get Darth Nox as a title, or at least a canonical title. Cuz if my name is blahblah, i dont get Darth Nox blahblah at the end.
    • This discussion would be best moved to Darth Nox's own talk page. But regardless, Nox is the canonical title dark side inquisitors receive upon gaining a seat upon the Council, regardless of whether you can use it as an actual in-game title. Cade Calrayn 11:53, May 14, 2012 (UTC)
• Should we change this page's title to "Barsen'thor (third) because he was around in the Second Great Galactic War as well as the Cold War. Also same issue for Emperor's Wrath, should be Emperor's Wrath (second) or second emperor's wrath. (Mattto123 06:41, May 15, 2012 (UTC))
  • Their current titles emphasize when they received their titles, and much of TOR is still under the umbrella of the Cold War. By stating when they were active, the article titles give more information about the character than "second" or "third". Cade Calrayn 13:52, May 15, 2012 (UTC)
  • Act III is already in the Second Great Galactic War. The devs said they would release more acts. But if your saying when they were named, Cold War is correct. (Mattto123 06:34, May 16, 2012 (UTC))
• Why is the gender of the Barsen'thor listed as male? Bioware never released an official gender far as I've seen. Wouldn't it be better to write it as being gender neutral like the rest of the SWTOR player classes? Further, the citation claiming that the Barsen'thor is male is questionable because it's not an official Bioware source. Where is a quote or page number? --KleptoHeart (talk) 14:22, September 6, 2015 (UTC)
  • The Star Wars: Force and Destiny Core Rulebook states the Barsen'thor's gender, and it's as official as we're ever going to get. BioWare doesn't necessarily have to be the one to determine the genders; this article's about the game character's story within the larger Star Wars universe. The Consular's story is virtually over anyway with the new expansion. Cade Calrayn 14:34, September 6, 2015 (UTC)

Gender of Barsen'thor

So I think we can't consider the source for Barsen'thor being male to be a good indicator because of grammar. We have to at least take into account the possiblility that the writer of the entry used "he" as a gender-neutral pronoun when referring to Barsen'thor. Thoughts? Psythedude (talk) 23:40, September 8, 2015 (UTC)

• I believe it's jumping the gun (blaster?) to label the Barsen'thor as canonically male. The only reference to this comes from the Force and Destiny RPG rulebook by Fantasy Flight Games, and there's no indication that the authors of that book consulted with BioWare about the subject. BioWare has indicated that none of the SWTOR classes have a canon gender, name, race, or appearance. In addition, in-universe, the book mentioned in Force and Destiny that uses the word "he" was written by a researcher 3600 years after the Barsen'thor's time, in an era where the Jedi are a vanishing myth and their study outlawed. The F&D rulebook mentions that the researcher's book was immediately suppressed. The researcher didn't have access to any official Jedi records. It is likely nothing more than either a generic "he" or a guess on the researcher's part. The researcher doesn't know the Barsen'thor's name, or even if "he" is actually buried on Chandrila. There's simply too much rumor and guesswork to state that the Barsen'thor is a "he" in canon. I would recommend that the gender be reverted to "unknown," and a note can be put in that Professor So-and-So (I don't have the rulebook with me right now to look up his name) believed that the Barsen'thor was a male, but presented no evidence of this. --Darth Sarcastria (talk) 13:01, October 3, 2015 (UTC)Darth Sarcastria
• I agree that "he" is possibly a grammar thing. Much like how "sir" is used for Imperial officers that are female, or how female Jedi masters are called master, rather than mistress. Either way I personally think it's best to keep the character gender neutral. While the argument was made above by Cade, "The Consular's story is virtually over anyway with the new expansion." This is entirely the case and I don't personally find it an argument to toss out the discussion on the matter. If a person plays the Consular into KOTFE, wouldn't the Barsen'thor's story continue on then? --KleptoHeart (talk) 02:44, January 21, 2016 (UTC)
• I have talked to Charles about this in the past regarding other SWTOR characters and it's generally agreed that any such references outside of SWTOR or media labelled SWTOR itself (i.e. Fatal Alliance, Annihilation, or Deceived) should be considered an error regarding the gender, species, race, etc. of the player characters. I strongly recommend reverting it, but have also copied Charles Boyd on this to double-check. Eudoxia (talk) 18:32, April 13, 2019 (UTC)

Gender and race

I want to discuss the gender and the race of the Barsen'thor because in my opinion considering him as male due to the rulebook is not correct. I want to refer to the LEGO Star Wars Set 75025, the Jedi Defender-class Cruiser. That is the ship of the Jedi Consular and Knight that you get in the two character-stories. In this set a Jedi Consular, a Jedi Knight and a Sith Warrior minifigure is included. The Jedi Consular is a female Mirialan with a green double-bladed lightsaber, so I would canonically count the Barsen'thor a female Mirialan Jedi Shadow. Also I am playing as exactly this type of Consular in the game and have made a screenshot of my character. Therefore I would like to change those points in the article and add my screenshot of the character.—Unsigned comment by Captain Talking (talk • contribs).

• LEGO star wars products are considered non-canon. VergenceScatter (talk) 15:30, 19 January 2021 (UTC)