"Never Say Mando'a Again"Edit

Does anyone else think that this topic needs a little expanding? Especially given the conflicting information we get from K1 and K2.

From what I understand, this Mandalore was not an 'official' Mandalore - given that he did not find the previous Mandalore's helmet and that many mandalorians aren't even aware of his ever existing (Canderous among them):

Mandalorian Mercenary: "Mandalore? But after Malachor V, no new Mandalore was chosen."

Revan obviously considered him potentially dangerous/influential enough to warrant assassination, but I think it's telling that the general consensus amongst K2 mandalorians is that there was no 'new mandalore', until Canderous started running around laying claim to the title. (Edit: I forgot that Revan didn't send HK-47 to assassinate mandalore, but rather another target)

Canderous certainly doesn't seem to consider his direct predeccessor to be, well, his direct predecessor - as far as he's concerned, he's the first since Ultimate.

Thoughts? (A no-prize if you guess why the section title is relevant) (Ulicus 21:52, 1 June 2006 (UTC))

• Personally, I think the opinions of the KOTOR II Mandalorians are suspect, Canderous most of all. Of course they'd think that Canderous was the one true Mandalore since Ultimate - since they've already chosen to swear fealty to him. And Canderous would want himself to seem as legitimate and uncontestible as possible. Besides, the chosing of the helmet means nothing - the only instance we know of that happening is with Ultimate, and we know of several instances where that definitely didn't happen, Canderous among them. Kuralyov 21:56, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

--- Canderous among them? Canderous found the helmet - though he mentioned that there were instances where it hadn't been necessary, so in that sense I suppose you're right. That said, it's strongly implied that during this time period the helmet is pretty vital if you want to lay claim to the title.

I think that what's more likely, is that Mandalore the Unknown was the first guy to try what Canderous did (sans helmet) but like Canderous (at least during K2), he didn't manage to get out to all mandalorians - so by the time he died, not everyone had heard of him. Which leads to the belief amongst some mandalorians that there was no Mandalore after Ultimate until Canderous.

Or maybe Canderous decided to off him and pretend he'd never existed... ;) then he'd *really* be a 'usurper'.

I mean, obviously the real reason for all this is because of a continuity flub, but it doesn't make the stuff in game any less canonical. [[[User:Ulicus|Ulicus]] 11:06, 2 June 2006 (UTC)]

• Canderous couldn't have had the helmet. We know that Ultimate took Indomitable's helmet, and that it looked nothing like what Canderous wears, and it seems to me that if he's not going to wear it than there's no point in having it. It seems more likely that he claimed to have the helmet but maybe had a fake, if that. Kuralyov 02:27, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Urm. Well, Canderous specifically tells us that it's the same helmet worn by Ultimate *and* Indomitable.

"This is the helmet worn by Mandalore in the Mandalorian Wars, and in the Exar Kun war before that"

And Indomitable didn't even *have* a helmet if you go by TotJ appearances, he had a mask. Since we also know for a fact that it was Revan who told Canderous where to find the helmet, we know that what Canderous is wearing *is* the helmet of Mandalore the Ultimate. The developers were retconning there. At least they were trying to... it's much like with the technology level. It wasn't supposed to represent "everything getting really modern looking in 40 years", it was supposed to imply "this is what the stuff happening in TotJ really looked like"... obviously other writers in the EU didn't like this. Which is a pity... since a 20,000 year old Republic that looks like the one in TotJ makes *no* sense. Tis no matter. (217.135.139.111 01:39, 6 June 2006 (UTC))

I was just wondering where it is stated that HK-47 was sent to assassinate this Mandalore. What I understand is that HK-47 was sent on a mission to assassinate an unknown target in Mandalorian space and was either damaged upon completion of the mission or before he could accomplish it. He then came into the possession of a Mandalorian soldier who repaired him, rather poorly, and used his assassination protocols to rise in the ranks. Eventually he sent HK-47 against this unknown Mandalore, who captured and reprogrammed him to assassinate the soldier instead. Following the death of this master, HK-47 shut down. S W Is For Life 05:26, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

• I personally find the entire subject matter completely irrelevent, and a simple error on the BioWare writer's part in not doing their homework, or not having a better understanding of the Mandalorian culture at the time. There is absolutely no substantial evidence in the entire series that supports any claim that this 'Unknown' even exsisted. This article is conjecture, and therefor non estsblished canon in any sense. —Unsigned comment by 216.110.236.238 (talk • contribs).
  • Mistake or not (and I'm leaning to not), it is mentioned, and, until it is overridden by another canon source or is retconned, it's canon. ^Jorrel_Fraajic 01:12, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
• Did anyone know that the grammar use of the name Mandalorian actually went like this: one Mandalore, two Mandalorians? The whole reference system is corrupted! Karohalva 01:15, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Please stop moving your comment around or removing it. -- I need a name (Complain here) 17:06, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
• If I choose to remove my previous post, then you have no right to alter or put that post back into place. I rescind my previous post, and therefor the other users can remove their own once they become aware of the situation. Please abide by my wishes. Thank you. —Unsigned comment by 216.110.236.238 (talk • contribs).
  • Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines#Own comments. -- I need a name (Complain here) 17:16, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
    • You only need cross it out. -- I need a name (Complain here) 17:24, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
      • Do I really need to point out that removing other people's comments is even worse then removing your own? -- I need a name (Complain here) 17:28, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
• I am attempting to make the discussion look more respectable, by removing my previous comments, and striking out my original one. If you insist on acting like a snotty little child instead of an adult and letting the situation drop, I will be forced to sign-up an account and report you to those in charge, I am well aware of the rules and regulations on editing Wiki pages, I've been doing it for years. I am also well aware of my rights as a poster. Stop with this childish behaviour, or I will report you.
  • It is against the rules of the site to blank any pages, including talk pages, even if you want to remove your own comments. The most that we allow is archiving the discussion in an archive, but this page isn't long enough for that option to be applicable. If you continue to blank the page then you will be banned for vandalism by me personally. —Jaymach Ral'Tir (talk) 18:07, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
• Very well, I have cross-out my previous comments. I suppose I should have known better then to expect maturity on a site run and edited mostly by teenagers. There, you've 'won' mates, enjoy your shallow victory.
  • I'm afraid that you're the one coming off as immature here, as you're not accepting the rules of a site just because it doesn't fit what you want. In addition to this, most of the people who 'run' this site are out of their teenage years, and so it would be advisable for you to check your facts before posting a publicly available message. —Jaymach Ral'Tir (talk) 18:22, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
• I never said anything about anyone being immature, so don't even try and put words in my font. Whatever though, I've got a big enough headache over this dribble as it is. Veuillez s'amuser, et ayez un jour pleasent. Ouais, c'est exact. L'anglais n'est pas ma langue maternelle. Aimez cela.
  • "I suppose I should have known better then to expect maturity" is functionally the same thing as calling your fellow commenters immature. Is this inability to accept criticism and proclivity for revisionism just endemic to Mandalorian fans? Karen Traviss has the same problems. -- Darth Culator ^{(Talk)(Kills)} 18:53, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
• No, it is not. It was in reference to this sites widely known inability to handle criticism and accept when they, and mostly the teenage community, have erred. Do not judge me, you do not know me, so respect me as you would like to be respected. If you all insist on acting like self-proclaimed Gods who cannot err, then so be it, but leave me out of your mind games.
  • Widely known? Cite specific instances. -- Darth Culator ^{(Talk)(Kills)} 19:02, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
• Oh yes, let me waste even more of my time running around to gather ever single instance of someone, anywhere in the world, bashing this site because of it's inadequacies. You can go onto the BioWare KotOR forums alone and see the amount of bashing this site recieves. And that is simply a single site, there are many more in the online realm of the internet.
  • As I expected. Concession accepted. -- Darth Culator ^{(Talk)(Kills)} 19:10, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
• Heh, I knew you'd say that too, and frankly, I don't mind at all. If you can't be bothered to do your own searching, then why should I bother to waste my own time? But, if you insist, there is a recent post on the KotOR forum that is 'ripe' for the picking:

Yes, I try never to use that horrible site whenever talking about Star Wars of any kind. The site is full of innacurate information, inadequacies that would make a respectable website gasp in horror, and the full-fledge memebers on that site are so self-absorbed egotistical it's enough to make you puke. Bleh, they don't even let you edit previous comments that might have made, like some kind of Anti-Comment Police service.[/quote]

http://swforums.bioware.com/viewtopic.html?topic=551496&forum=76&sp=15#4851992

• • How are we expected to respond to criticism that hasn't been brought to our attention? And pointing to your own post on an obscure message board is hardly "widely known." -- Darth Culator ^{(Talk)(Kills)} 19:20, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
• That's not my own post, that's Nanotechie 101's. If you want to get in touch with me, you have to message the account known as 'DX-5'. That is my account. If you don't want to accept what is brought before you, then so be it. Wallow in your own self-ignorance for all I care. 'Concession accepted' indeed, I'm not going to bother responding to this anymore. I've wasted enough time with people like you for one day.
  • The sad thing is that you're going to be pleased with yourself, as if you've accomplished some noble intellectual victory. In actual fact, you're just a poor debater, and a quitter. Nobody will be sorry to see you go. -- Darth Culator ^{(Talk)(Kills)} 19:39, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

OK, TO MAKE THIS CLEAR. HK-47 was sent to assassinate an unknown target in Mandalorian space. He completed this but was damaged, found and poorly repaired by a Mandalorian soldier. The soldier used his assassination protocols to rise in the ranks, got uppity and sent HK-47 against this Unkown Mandalore and was in turn killed by the droid when said Mandalore reprogrammed him. HKs' original mission from Revan was NOT to kill this Mandalore. S W Is For Life 03:12, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

The New Mandalore is Canderous Edit

Malachor V was the end of the Mando Wars. Revan Claimed Mandalore the Ultimate's mask for his own; this is the mask seen in the KotOR video game (BioWare took some creative license with the paint job, however; though Revan could have repainted it himself). It is said that a new mandalore was chosen after Malachor V. It has occurred to me that when this comment is made: "Mandalore? But after Malachor V, no new Mandalore was chosen." Canderous says that he has sought to "correct that error". Thus, since no Mandalore was chosen, he assumed the title at some point between KotOR I and KotOR II. On Nar Shaddaa, a mando merc. Scoffs at Canderous, saying something about anyone being able to go grab a helmet from the swoop tracks and call himself Mandalore. EVERY MANDALORIAN WHO FOUGHT IN THE MANDO WARS WOULD KNOW WHAT THE REAL MASK LOOKED LIKE. This suggests that Ordo's helmet is not Mandalore the Ultimate's Helmet, as Revan had claimed it at the end of the war. Ordo obviously got a new helmet, using tubes in a similar style of Ultimate's mask.

It should also be recognised that KotOR II is a patchwork of conflicting info within itself; since cancelled information has been accidently left in at some points. I don't know where "This is the helmet worn by Mandalore in the Mandalorian Wars, and in the Exar Kun war before that" came from, because I have KotOR II for Xbox, and he never says that. Note that KotOR II also changed the Basilisk because, quoth an Obsidian guy; "quite frankly, it looks really stupid". IMO, the idiot who decided that was "really stupid". Just because you don't like it doesn't mean you can alter canon! --Logan Felipe 01:55, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

• Please verify your facts before adding info to the talk page. You are likely to confuse people. Revan's mask is not Mandalore's mask. Canderous Ordo has that mask, even though it looks nothing like how it should. It is a continuity problem caused by lack of research on the part of Obsidian, nothing more.--Sentry 21:06, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

MergeEdit

I think that article should be merged with Unidentified Taung Mandalore.QuiGonJinn 08:09, 23 September 2008 (UTC)QuiGonJinn

• They cannot be merged yet. Author intent is not canon.--Sentry 20:59, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
  • You're wrong. It was not Abel's intent, that didn't make it into final book, it was just him clarifiyng what ended up there.

• Try rereading Canderous's bio. You will notice that the book never states that the Taung 'Mandalore' was telling the truth. It says that "Canderous happens upon an ailing Taung 'claiming' to be the true Mandalore." The veracity of the Taung's claim is unknown. As for merging this article with the Unidentified Taung Mandalore page, the KotOR CG does not even address the subject. Abel only addressed it because I brought it up.--Sentry 03:57, 12 October 2008 (UTC)