Article milestones Date Process Result 30 December 2005 Featured article candidate Failure 8 January 2006 Failed featured article candidate 2 June 2007 Good article nomination Success 11 June 2007 Good article 18 January 2009 Good article review Removed 15 February 2009 Former good article
Current status: Former good article

I've never read Crimson Empire II, but didn't Carivus get knifed by Kir Kanos, not Nom Anor? Demented Smiloid 23:35, 16 Aug 2005 (UTC)

(After flipping through CEII) You're right. Can't believe I wrote that; will change it now. Kuralyov 23:49, 16 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Succession BoxEdit

If this page states the following: Carivus was the last person to attempt to claim the title of "Galactic Emperor"; as such, his death could be considered the dividing line between the Galactic Empire and Imperial Remnant. , then why is there a double succession box identifying Gilad Pellaeon as the next Head of State of Galactic Empire ? Wouldn't it be much more appropiate for there to be only one succesion box, for "Galactic Emperor", saying that he was succeded by "None, eventually Gilad Pellaeon as Head of State of the Imperial Remnant"?

• That would make not make sense. Think about it: Pellaeon was the Imperial head of state, but he wasn't Emperor. The way it is with the one-to-two succession box makes it clear that, while Carivus is the last Emperor, the heads of state continue after him. Having it the way you describe would be like having Palpatine's box for Dark Lord of the Sith read "Succeded by: None, eventually Lumiya as claiming to be the last Sith." Or, more accurately, it would be like having a succession box for Nicholas II saying, "Tsar of Russia, Succeded by Vladimir Lenin as President of USSR." Kuralyov 21:54, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)
• One other thing, that may also help make my point: also, although it was most commonly called the Imperial Remnant, it was technically - and more importantly, officially - still the same Galactic Empire that was formed by Palpatine (I'm going to make that more clear in the article). Since they're the same state, but with the title of the head-of-state changing between Carivus and Pellaeon, is another reason why I think this to be the best succession box option. Kuralyov 22:02, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)

All right, I can see your point, but I'm not sure if we can really say the Imperial Remnant and the Galactic Empire are the same political entity, specially after 19 ABY and the official recognition of the Imperial Remnant as a new state by the New Republic. I thought it would be acceptable to have another succesion box saying something similar to Nicholas II, Tsar of Russia, Succeded by Vladimir Lenin as President of USSR. , since they can be found all over Wikipedia (in fact, Nicholas II's succession box will lead you at first to his brother, then to the heads of state of the 1917 provisional government, and finally to Lenin) and the Star Wars Wiki itself (Mas Amedda's succession box says that he was succeded as Vice Chair by "None, eventually Sate Pestage as Grand Vizier", instead of it saying simply "None" and there being a separate succesion box for "Palpatine's de facto main yes-man"). I won't implement all of my suggested changes for the succession boxes for Xandel Carivus and Gilad Pellaeon until either of us convinces the other completely or we can come to a compromise, hopefully with the intervention of more users, but I will give the already existing succession boxes minor cosmetic tweaks, mainly changing "Head of State of Galactic Empire" into "Head of State of THE Galactic Empire", so it will sound less akward.

• Well, first of all, I have no idea who put up all those confusing Mas Amedda/Sly Moore/Sate Pestage boxes, and I really don't think they should be there (mainly because theer's no evidence for most of it). Second, I'm pretty sure that the Pellaeon-Gavrisom Treaty from SOTP is mentioned as having "Galactic Empire", even though Gavrisom et al referred to the Empire as the Remnant (I cna't check, though, since I don't have my copy of SOTP with me). And in any event, no matter what the NR thought, the Remnant's leaders still believed they were the legitimate Galactic Empire (even if the newer moffs used the slang). And lastly, I made the Nicholas reference just because it was the first thing I could think of; but look at the Grand Duke Michael entry: he was the last official Russian Emperor, and his succession box splits into the claimant emperors and the head of the provisional government. This is just like the situation we have here (except there was no emperor, as opposed to imperial claimants, after Carivus): it splits between the title (emperor, who has no successor) and the powers of the title (the head of state, who has a successor). Kuralyov 02:31, 1 Sep 2005 (UTC)

I have never read Specter of The Past, and your point does make sense, so I guess I'll have to concurr...but since Pellaeon wasn't the immediate successor of Carivus as foremost Imperial leader (and at the same time it's hard to establish any singular person as foremost Imperial leader in that "interregnum"), wouldn't it be better if the succession boxes read that Carivus was succeded as Head of State by "Eventually Gilad Pellaeon" rather than just "Gilad Pellaeon"?

• I'll agree to that, although Silly Dan has me wondering if it was in fact Disra there for a while before he was arrested by Pelly. I don't think so, but with my Hand of Thrawn being 750 miles away, it'll be awhile before I can check. Still, I'll change the boxes to your suggestions. I take we've reached an agreement, then? Kuralyov 03:09, 1 Sep 2005 (UTC)
  • "Eventually" makes sense to me, too. It seems as though Carivus was succeeded by an assortment of warlords (Daala, the eight Moffs in the Remnant, Ultra Overlord Captain Awesome, etc.), with no one getting overall command for anything more than brief periods. Now that I think of it, even Disra was just "first among equals" on the Council of Moffs, and it's not clear if Pellaeon was below the Moffs or sort of off to the side. Disra, Grodin Tierce, and Flim were jointly in charge for a little while, so you could put them in as de facto leaders, but a lot of people would argue against it. — Silly Dan 21:16, 1 Sep 2005 (UTC)
    • I'd argue against it, too, for the same reason I wouldn't put Daala et al in the succession box - despite how powerful they were, they didn't claim to be head of state (which always confused me). Kuralyov 21:19, 1 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I think we have. It was a pleasure to debate with you. Oh, and on a side note, I should take some of the blame for the current state of the Sly Moore/Mas Amedda/Sate Pestage succession boxes, but I only edited them because the articles assumed Pestage's responsibilities as Grand Vizier were similar to that of Sly Moore and Mas Amedda in their respective roles (which is likely), but speculative as it is, I just had to edit them. The boxes were previosuly really confusing, abusing the term "de facto" and confusing the titles of Moore and Amedda. I'll re-edit the articles so that the assumption that Pestage's office was a replacement for the two previous offices is part of the page itself, but not the succession boxes. I've made a few other contributions to the Star Wars Wiki from time to time, but I'm not sure if I should register, since I've been operating from different computers...what's the policy on anonymous contributions?

• It was a pleasure for me, as well. And no worries about the succession box things. Like all Wikis, anonymous contributions/edits are welcomed, but if you get an account, you have more options. It takes thirty seconds, I'd reccomend it. Kuralyov 20:03, 1 Sep 2005 (UTC)

• I've just created an account, it's not likely that anyone will see this, but I thought I should sign the talk page which prompted me to register. --Ace ETP 18:56, 8 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Red Guard Edit

Is there an article about Carivus's guards? This page links to Red Guard, which doesn't seem to have any info about them at all.--Darth Oblivion 20:30, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

CategoryEdit

I don't think we should list him as a Vong collaborator, that makes it sound like he was a Peace Brigader or something like that. Evir Daal 11:20, 27 March 2007 (UTC)