Nomination comments: A good article nomination that got too long. The original nomination can be found here. Since the Servants of the Empire series has now ended, I think it's safe to say Holshef's story has most likely come to a close. ProfessorTofty (talk) 01:07, November 24, 2015 (UTC)
(4 Inqs/3 Users/7 Total)
(Votes required: No additional votes required to pass, please consider reviewing another article.)
First impression is that the intro could be expanded with more details of the escape. As of right now, it's a bit disproportionately small in comparison with the body.
Good point. I think I wrote that back before the release of The Secret Academy and never updated it. Updated now to include details from that title. ProfessorTofty (talk) 05:20, June 15, 2016 (UTC)
The P&T seems like it could also be expanded. For instance: "He griped that "Today's youth are always in a hurry," and began gathering stacks of his poetry, only for her to stop him, saying that they didn't have time to take anything. He asked if he could just take his latest and she knew it would be better to allow this small demand rather than let him wheedle for hours. When, however, he tried to take an entire year's worth of poems, she cut him off at one week." This alone illustrates some traits that could easily be added in.
Hmm. I've heard this before, but as I've mentioned before in other article nominations like this, I can find nothing in the manual of style, the nomination guidelines, or anywhere else on the site specifically stating that contractions should be avoided. So I'm not going to avoid contractions for the sole purpose of sounding "more encyclopedic," nor replace contractions in cases where I would otherwise use them. Contractions are a natural and accepted part of the English language. That said, I'm willing to listen if you feel that removing any particular contractions would improve the article, but I'm just not sure removing contractions for the sake of removing contractions really does anything to serve our readers. ProfessorTofty (talk) 05:20, June 15, 2016 (UTC)
"At some point after this, Laxo sold Holshef to a bounty hunter" What do you mean by this? Did he literally sell Holshef to the bounty hunter like a slave, or just the rights to protect him?
This question came up in the original good article nomination as well. The book phrases it as such: "Laxo opened his eyes. They were like chips of ice. 'I just sold Holshef to a bounty hunter,' he said. 'The hunter will be here in a hour. You're going to take him to your poet friend's latest hideout... and stay while he collects the bounty.'" So I guess the idea is that what he was really selling was Holshef's location, with the idea that the bounty hunter would turn Holshef in and then give him a portion of the bounty. I've edited the article to reflect that.
A lot of the bio seems to focus more on Spanjaf than Holshef. For instance, the raid at the end of "A fugitive artist": How does it affect Holshef? Furthermore, the entirety of "A need to escape" is written from Spanjaf's POV.
Well, I guess the reason for that is that it's really impossible to tell Holshef's story without Spanjaf because everything we're told revolves around her. It seems to me that if I cut the information from that paragraph, we'd be losing crucial information, but the fact is that there are only about three or four scenes that actually have Holshef present. I did add some more about Holshef at the end of the paragraph you mentioned though; and I'd welcome more direction on this topic. ProfessorTofty (talk) 05:20, June 15, 2016 (UTC)
The quote in the P&T seems like it would be much better as the main quote than the one you have, where neither of the speakers are Holshef.
Fair enough. Made that the main quote and added a new quote for the personality and traits. ProfessorTofty (talk) 05:20, June 15, 2016 (UTC)
I also think you're too play-by-play narrating everything that's said. Unless what they're talking about is really important, you'd do better just to stick to the actual actions of the story.IFYLOFD(Talk) 00:32, June 3, 2016 (UTC)
Alright, I've tried to chop it down. Let me know what you think now. ProfessorTofty (talk) 05:20, June 15, 2016 (UTC)
Per FAN rule 9, this article cannot have any redlinks.--Exiled Jedi (talk) 02:54, October 4, 2016 (UTC)
Quite right. I seem to recall voting in favor of that myself. Redlink taken care of, and while I was it, I also made a few other tweaks to the article. ProfessorTofty (talk) 14:03, October 4, 2016 (UTC)
Please add images. This is FAN rule 14, and an article this long simply cannot do without being illustrated. For ideas, out of the subjects linked in the intro, Lothal, Merei Spanjaf, Jho and Garel all have images that can be used here.Imperators II(Talk) 15:55, August 30, 2017 (UTC)
All good suggestions. I added the first three, but decided to skip Garel since the only place that seems right for that is where I already have Old Jho. ProfessorTofty (talk) 03:16, September 7, 2017 (UTC)
There's still a lot more room for images. Remember that you should preview the article in the Oasis skin for optimal image placement, since it's the most widely used one by the readers by far. I think the Merei and Jho images should both be moved up a section each (they're introduced there so they'll fit in just fine), and then there'll be room for the Garel image, as well. Heck, if you can think of any other appropriate images, the article will most probably be able to support those, as well. Also, please pay more attention to our policy on image caption punctuation. Imperators II(Talk) 10:49, September 7, 2017 (UTC)
Alright, how's it looking now? And as far as I can tell, everything I have is fine in regards to the caption punctuation. ProfessorTofty (talk) 18:28, September 10, 2017 (UTC)
Is there really no quote for the "Early life" subsection?
I've added a quote related to the sap collecting mentioned in that section which I think works. ProfessorTofty (talk) 03:16, September 7, 2017 (UTC)
Why do you have two dating references? It seems to me you could do with just the "fourth year BBY" reference.
Hmm. I'm sure my reasons for doing it that way made sense to me at the time, but now that you ask, I don't know why. It may have something to do with the fact that in the "Personality and traits" section I said "five years," but that's not right. Corrected and switched to just the one reference. ProfessorTofty (talk) 03:16, September 7, 2017 (UTC)
Review note: I've removed the homeworld reference because you only used information from The Secret Academy in it. The Secret Academy reference is sufficient. Imperators II(Talk) 14:33, August 31, 2017 (UTC)
Why do you put Old Jho in quotes in the intro, but not in the article body?Imperators II(Talk) 14:38, August 31, 2017 (UTC)
I'm not really sure. In any case, it's taken care of to make it more like it is in the actual article about Old Jho himself, mostly referring to him as simply Jho, except where needed. ProfessorTofty (talk) 03:16, September 7, 2017 (UTC)
In the intro, you say Holshef escaped to Garel, but in the article's body you just say he was supposed to meet the Spectres in the Garel system, while ending the History section by saying he escaped Lothal.Imperators II(Talk) 14:45, August 31, 2017 (UTC)
Alright, I've edited in all those parts to be consistent. ProfessorTofty (talk) 03:16, September 7, 2017 (UTC)
As you go through the rest of my objections, please also double check all uses of personal pronouns throughout the article when referring to Holshef, Spanjaf, Jho. Try to switch continually repeated pronouns such as "he", "his", "him" for names, physical descriptions, occupations, etc. I don't know if the current sourcing supports this, but "bartender" is probably something you can substitute for "he/him" when referring to Jho, for example. The result of this should be that you don't use exclusively pronouns for like three consecutive sentences, or use just pronouns when referring to multiple individuals in a single sentence. It's all about lessening potential for reader confusion.
Here's an example of what I'm talking about. "Spanjaf was a teenage human girl who had been drawn into the Syndicate due to her investigations into the Empire's capture of her boyfriend Zare Leonis's older sister, Dhara. An attendee of Capital City's Vocational School for Institutional Security, she possessed slicing skills" — who possessed slicing skills - Spanjaf or Dhara?
Here's another one: "she spoke with a whiskered Lutrillian, who warned her that Holshef would not be able to stay because he had not received his credits" — who had not received the credits - Holshef, or the Lutrillian?
Taken care of, all of it. Some of it was handled in dealing with the objections, and I corrected this one specifically. I scanned through the rest of the article, and I don't see anything else that should cause confusion. ProfessorTofty (talk) 02:56, October 9, 2017 (UTC)
Yeah, I changed a bunch more so that there would be some variety. Imperators II(Talk) 18:45, October 28, 2017 (UTC)
Please link to and give context for Garel both in intro and the body.
In the intro, you say Holshef settled on Garel, while in the body, you say he was just "dropped off" there. Those are different things.
I changed the intro to match what's in the body, as the book doesn't really say enough to establish that he actually settled there. ProfessorTofty (talk) 00:07, October 9, 2017 (UTC)
Context for Far Hiradne, please.
I wish I could, but there is literally nothing to say about it other than what's already there. In The Secret Academy, Jho asks "Did you ever taste the greel-wood syrup from Far Hiradne?" to which Holshef replies that his first job was as an apprentice sap collector there. Jho then replies that he has a bottle of vintage Hiradne syrup. I suppose I could add that it's on Lothal, but that seemed to me obvious from the context. ProfessorTofty (talk) 21:54, October 3, 2017 (UTC)
Just adding that Far Hiradne was a region is enough in this case, imo.
Do the reliquary and/or the saint have/merit articles?
I think that's borderline at best. We know nothing about them, not even what the name of the saint was or where the reliquary was located. I'll create them if you say I should, but otherwise, my judgment says no. ProfessorTofty (talk) 21:54, October 3, 2017 (UTC)
Currently you use both dating refs to source information other than dates, please correct this.
I think this problem should be all corrected now. ProfessorTofty (talk) 02:36, October 10, 2017 (UTC)
Right, pretty sure I have it now. Saw what I missed, and I'm pretty sure I know what happened too. Almost certain now that's everything, but if not, could you please either point out directly what still needs fixed or just fix it? ProfessorTofty (talk) 01:54, October 28, 2017 (UTC)
The 18 BBY ref:
"Bridger was born on the first Empire Day" — according to what source? The further-mentioned Galactic Atlas? If so, please clarify.
Added another source to support Bridger's being born on Empire Day. ProfessorTofty (talk) 02:56, October 9, 2017 (UTC)
"which was 19 BBY" — some missing punctuation here.
I added a comma, though personally I'm not really sure punctuation is needed there. ProfessorTofty (talk) 02:56, October 9, 2017 (UTC)
So sorry, I meant "missing word" instead of "missing punctuation." I went ahead and fixed it myself. Imperators II(Talk) 20:52, October 13, 2017 (UTC)
"this title," "Within this title" — what are these referring to, The Steal, Galactic Atlas or one the Servants of the Empire books?
There is still a "this title" remaining in the ref note. With so many titles mentioned there, please clarify. Imperators II(Talk) 20:52, October 13, 2017 (UTC)
Okay, clarified "this title" to The Steal. ProfessorTofty (talk) 21:52, October 23, 2017 (UTC)
If Bridger was born in 19 BBY, couldn't he still be an infant in 19 BBY? And the second sentence of the ref isn't exactly helping - is it known in Canon that the first Empire Day was less than three months before the start of the year 18 BBY?
Well, that's why I said "approximately" in the main body, and "at or around" in the reference. Because we're not dealing with precise dates here. Is there a way I could better clarify that? ProfessorTofty (talk) 02:56, October 9, 2017 (UTC)
To be honest, I think it's complete speculation to say it's 18 BBY if the only piece of evidence supporting that is that Bridger "was an infant." Maybe it could be "approximately 19 BBY", but saying it's 18 BBY is speculative at this point. It would also be good if you fixed this wherever else on the Wook it currently says the Adventures in Wild Space books are set in 18 BBY. Imperators II(Talk) 20:52, October 13, 2017 (UTC)
Alright, I've gone ahead and just gone with "approximately" and tried to clarify a bit more within the reference that we're not talking about exact dates here. I'll also have a look around for anywhere else that might be citing that information. ProfessorTofty (talk) 21:52, October 23, 2017 (UTC)
Bio, Early life: "He enjoyed the bountiful nature of his home planet" — this is somewhat out of place. Could you either move it to a bit earlier in the paragraph or see if it's more at place in the P&T section, if not actually redundant to the info there?
Removed from the paragraph and explained in more detail in the personality and traits. ProfessorTofty (talk) 02:03, October 8, 2017 (UTC)
The second and third sections of Bio are too long and need to be further subsectioned. Don't forget to check for any appropriate quotes, of course.
I decided to just split the second section into two parts, since it was six paragraphs and this felt like the most natural way of breaking it up. Feel free to tweak though if you think there's a better way. ProfessorTofty (talk) 02:03, October 8, 2017 (UTC)
A fugitive artist: "when it would have taken so little to preserve them" — how little? Please clarify this so it's more encyclopedic in tone.
Clarified as to exactly how they could have done better and reworded. ProfessorTofty (talk) 16:07, October 4, 2017 (UTC)
I rewrote that part so that it resembles the quote even less. I hope the new version is still supported by all the referencing. Imperators II(Talk) 20:52, October 13, 2017 (UTC)
"The events of this article take place in or between "Empire Day," which marks the beginning of 4 BBY; and "A Princess on Lothal," which is the first known episode to take place in 3 BBY" — okay, everything in this needs to be sourced. According to what source do the events take place between those episodes? According to what source do those episodes take place on those dates?
Well, the note says "For more information, see Wookieepedia's timeline of Star Wars Rebels events." This whole chronology thing is a sort of standardized thing that we've been using to make things easier when it comes to these references. If you still need, I can go ahead and try to explain all of that with detail in the reference note, but I was under the impression that referring to that thread had been accepted as a standard around here.
That thread could only be safely used as a reference like that if it was perfectly up to our status article standards, i.e., have no contradictions, errors, omissions, etc. It has yet to get to that place, so, yes, I'm afraid you'll have to do all the sourcing by yourself here. We've even had a couple of Rebels GAs recently using perfectly-sourced date referencing without relying on that timeline page. Imperators II(Talk) 20:52, October 13, 2017 (UTC)
If you happen to know off-hand, could you point me directly to those? I could really use a frame of reference here to try to get that all sorted out without having to rely on that thread. ProfessorTofty (talk) 01:54, October 28, 2017 (UTC)
I was referring to Killun 71 and PZ-7, but those seem to be from a little further in the timeline than what you need. You'll probably want to dig in what that thread actually have to say about the placement of the relevant episodes. From what I see, apparently media related to the episode "Empire Day" place it during the fifteenth anniversary of the Empire, which, with the help of additional sources and just a bit of math, probably becomes 4 BBY (I guess you should also check the Galactic Atlas for any relevant hard ABY dates). And from what I can see on the thread, referencing the other end (the one using "A Princess of Leia" as a marker) of the relevant time interval is even messier. Imperators II(Talk) 18:45, October 28, 2017 (UTC)
Alright, I think I've come up with a solution that works. Let me know what you think of how it is now. Also - was there still something going on with the below objection? Because you didn't reply to it, but you didn't slash it either. ProfessorTofty (talk) 04:43, November 6, 2017 (UTC)
Second sentence, "This story takes place well after [...]" — is "this story" referring to Imperial Justice or "Vision of Hope"? (Or both?) Please clarify. Also: source/evidence for it taking place "well after" "Empire Day"? And please check the changes I made to the note for factual accuracy. Imperators II(Talk) 11:13, November 6, 2017 (UTC)
Sorry, it's "Vision of Hope" that takes place well-after. Edited it to reflect that. As far as your changes, yes, all looks okay to me, thanks. So that just leaves the "well after" part... hmm, well, it's only a few episodes later, so maybe "well after" is a bit generous. Okay, I've gone ahead and edited it. How's that now? ProfessorTofty (talk) 17:32, November 8, 2017 (UTC)
Also, purely from the info you've currently provided earlier in the ref, this bit "As such, we can deduce that this event takes place in 4 BBY" could actually be an incorrect conclusion. Maybe "A Princess of Lothal" is the first episode to take place in 3 BBY, but that doesn't exclude the possibility that the Servants of the Empirebooks also take place in 3 BBY.
Okay, that I corrected to say "in or shortly after." ProfessorTofty (talk) 02:32, October 11, 2017 (UTC)
The paragraph introducing Spanjaf needs to be rewritten for all the following reasons:
"An attendee of Capital City's Vocational School for Institutional Security, she possessed slicing skills, but was forced into the group's activities" — what group? The Vocational School, or the earlier-mentioned Gray Syndicate?
Seemed obvious to me from context that it would be the Gray Syndicate, but I went ahead and stated that directly. ProfessorTofty (talk) 00:07, October 9, 2017 (UTC)
"she possessed slicing skills, but was forced into the group's activities against her will due to her need for a snooper program as part of her investigations" — I'm not exactly seeing a contrast justifying the use of "but" here. What, was she supposed to not get involved with the group due to her possessing slicing skills?
Hmm, yeah, I think I was trying to get the bit about the slicing in there, but it does seem awkward when you put it that way. I moved it to earlier in the paragraph. ProfessorTofty (talk) 00:07, October 9, 2017 (UTC)
And then the Holshef stuff... You start the paragraph by describing the meetings between Spanjaf and Holshef, then you divert to explain Spanjaf's background, which involves completely unrelated things like education, slicing and Imperial captures, and then we're suddenly drinking tea with Holshef again. The paragraph needs to be reworked so that information is presented in a logical, preferably chronological fashion.
Already partly addressed as part of what you said above, but I went ahead and re-worded it further to try to keep it more separate. ProfessorTofty (talk) 00:07, October 9, 2017 (UTC)
"promising to paint her a picture, but nothing that would get her in trouble" — could you reword/explain this better?
Alright. Hope it was okay to extrapolate a little here. What he means, of course, is nothing that would attract the ire of the Empire like his previous works, though the book doesn't really come out and state it directly. ProfessorTofty (talk) 00:07, October 9, 2017 (UTC)
In the next paragraph: "Later, Spanjaf visited Holshef again" — this sounds like in the earlier paragraph, you were talking about a single specific meeting between the two, but that paragraph currently seems to talk about their meetings in general. Either this paragraph or the previous one need to be slightly reworded to clear this up.
Reworded the beginning of this paragraph to clear that up. ProfessorTofty (talk) 02:36, October 10, 2017 (UTC)
"but a raid on Ake's Tavern, the headquarters of the Gray Syndicate, brought down by Spanjaf herself, followed Laxo's ultimatum." — could the word "orchestrated" be used here? Maybe that would allow for this part to be rewritten to avoid the passive voice, because currently it's a bit hard to follow.
"whiskered Lutrillian" — aren't all Lutrillians whiskered by default? is this necessary?
Are they? Neither our canon nor our Legends article about the species mentions anything about whiskers and the individual in our picture for the species on our canon page for the species doesn't seem to have any. ProfessorTofty (talk) 16:51, October 3, 2017 (UTC)
"The Ithorian was amused that she was looking for more trouble after being freed of a bad influence like Laxo, but she told him that she just had this last bit of business to clear up" — sorry, what has this sentence got to do with Holshef at all?
It has to do with Holshef being the "bit of business" that she has to clear up, but I guess it can go. ProfessorTofty (talk) 16:51, October 3, 2017 (UTC)
"spine trees of Pelamir Gorge in the forests, forests that the Empire had now cut down" — firstly, this reads really awkward and feels like it's taken directly from the book; secondly, the use of "now" doesn't conform with our past tense requirement.
I'm not sure it was taken directly from the book, but in any case, I reworded it as "forests which had been cut down by the Empire." ProfessorTofty (talk) 02:03, October 8, 2017 (UTC)
This still reads awkwardly. Shouldn't it be "spine trees in the forests of the Pelamir Gorge" or something like that? Also, the current construction "in the forests, forests which had..." feels awkward to me. Imperators II(Talk) 18:45, October 28, 2017 (UTC)'
Yeah, the way you wrote it is definitely better. I've gone ahead and changed it to that. While I was at it, I removed the pipeline to "tree" from "forest," as there is now a forest article, whereas there wasn't at the time I originally made the link, but now there is (and the only reason I hadn't made it myself was because I thought we didn't want one because of dictionary or something.) ProfessorTofty (talk) 20:39, November 2, 2017 (UTC)
Since you linked to Forest earlier, I've changed the second mention of forests to point to Tree. Can you please rework the sentence about the Pelamir Gorge forests so that it doesn't have two consecutive clauses starting with "which"? Imperators II(Talk) 11:13, November 6, 2017 (UTC)
Yeah, that one was easy enough. I just changed it to "causing him" instead of "which caused him." ProfessorTofty (talk) 17:54, November 8, 2017 (UTC)
"he noted that she had never told him her name. She told it to him" — please rewrite this to avoid the repetition.
"The Galactic Empire had arrested Hestia Tarleton, a girl whose photo had been used a doppelganger for her" — I believe the word "doppelganger" is used to refer to an individual or an entity rather to an object like a photo. Please reword this.
"The entire group was forced to flee Lothal in a hurry, once Spanjaf rescued Leonis's parents, with Spanjaf headed to rescue her boyfriend Zare Leonis on Arkanis, while Holshef was dropped off on Garel" — can you rewrite this so the info is presented in a logical and chronological fashion?
BTS: "focused on Zare Leonis's quest to uncover the fate of his sister, Dhara Leonis" — this has nothing to do with Holshef and would be at home on articles for the books and for Zare and Dhara instead.
Okay, but should I be describing the books in any other way instead? I put in there because in these objections I'm usually being told to clarify stuff and give a brief description of what stuff is about. ProfessorTofty (talk) 22:32, October 3, 2017 (UTC)
While yes, you should indeed always check whether adding context for in-universe terms in an article's body and such might be helpful to the reader, I don't really think that describing what an OOU medium is about is always necessary, and definitely not in this case. Imperators II(Talk) 20:17, October 9, 2017 (UTC)
The info about the other people who were being hidden by the Gray Syndicate should be moved from the BTS and P&T (it has more to do with what Holshef did than with his personality) to an appropriate place in Bio.
Alright, I moved it to directly after the part towards the beginning of the bio about how he paid credits to Laxo. ProfessorTofty (talk) 22:32, October 3, 2017 (UTC)
Hmm, you're right about that. Not sure what happened there, but the names of the individuals are now out of the BTS entirely and with the bit about Holshef's misdeeds being different in the bio. ProfessorTofty (talk) 01:54, October 28, 2017 (UTC)
Since you name the JCF in the BTS, I believe you should also provide the name of Fry's blog there.Imperators II(Talk) 10:51, October 1, 2017 (UTC)
Fair enough. I went ahead and added it. ProfessorTofty (talk) 02:03, October 8, 2017 (UTC)
One last thing, I think. Can you insert another subsection right before Spanjaf is introduced in the Bio?Imperators II(Talk) 23:06, November 8, 2017 (UTC)
Done. In adding that, I also added a new image for the previous section, showing the polluted Lothal. Of course, it doesn't actually get that polluted until later on, but I think it demonstrates the point described in the article. Still, you can remove it if you feel it's too much of a stretch. ProfessorTofty (talk) 17:26, November 9, 2017 (UTC)
I agree with your reasoning and think it's a nice fit. The "A need to escape" subsection still had room for an image, so I added the only thing I could think of, I hope the choice is OK with you.
There's no longer any need to use the phrasing "the fourth year before the Battle of Yavin." That was our own way of getting around the fact that Canon was initially reluctant to adopt the BBY/ABY system. Now that it officially has, all instances of his this phrasing should be changed to just say 4 ABY, etc. Please make the necessary changes to this article.Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 00:28, September 23, 2017 (UTC)
Changed to simply reference 4 BBY instead. ProfessorTofty (talk) 16:27, September 27, 2017 (UTC)
The intro seems particularly short given the significant length of the article body. Please see about ways you might consider expanding it with pertinent summary info.Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 00:39, February 20, 2018 (UTC)
Expanded with more about his love for Lothal, as well as the nature of the Empire's crackdown to better explain the danger he was in, as well as the urgency for him needing to escape. ProfessorTofty (talk) 01:10, February 21, 2018 (UTC)
I added a mention in the first sentence of Lothal being in the Outer Rim. Please check whether that needs a separate reference note.
It does, yes. Went ahead and added that. ProfessorTofty (talk) 03:26, March 10, 2018 (UTC)
The article doesn't really explain how exactly this is an ultimatum. It just says that Laxo orders Spanjaf to betray Holshef. There's no "do or else" quality here. "Shortly following Laxo's ultimatum..."
Edited to add his threat he made regarding this. ProfessorTofty (talk) 03:26, March 10, 2018 (UTC)
On second thought, after reading through this again, I think that whole bit about Spanjaf previously crossing Laxo is extraneous to Holshef. That section actually reads a lot smoother without it, without losing any understanding of the events, so I opted just to remove it.
In the "Sudden Flight" section quote, does the text actually italicize the period after "shut up" as well?
Almost certain the answer is yes. A italicized period is difficult to tell from a normal period, so I actually magnified it in a graphics program and there are a pixels missing that are present in the other periods. ProfessorTofty (talk) 03:26, March 10, 2018 (UTC)
Are there really other scents that do this, or are you just extrapolating from the one? The article only mentions jogan having this effect on him: "The old man could be transported to memories of youth simply by smelling certain scents of Lothal."
He does mention smelling arrack vines, but yeah, it doesn't specifically mention anything other than the jogan blossoms unlocking memories. So I went ahead and edited it to just that. ProfessorTofty (talk) 03:26, March 10, 2018 (UTC)
Outstanding detective work on the date references. That's how they should be done. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 04:26, February 26, 2018 (UTC)
Thanks! It took a while, but got there in the end. ProfessorTofty (talk) 03:26, March 10, 2018 (UTC)
In the Early life section of the bio, can you clarify when Lothal was annexed by the Empire?
Is that something we have the details on? It's never really made clear in any of the Servants of the Empire books and even our on article on Lothal doesn't really say exactly when it was the planet was annexed. Is there some other source I don't know about? ProfessorTofty (talk) 16:27, September 27, 2017 (UTC)
According to The Steal, which ostensibly takes place in 18 BBY, "Lothal invited the Empire here three months ago". Do with that what you will. - AV-6R7Crew Pit 18:39, September 27, 2017 (UTC)
Thanks. I've gone ahead and added that reference in. ProfessorTofty (talk) 16:22, September 28, 2017 (UTC)
Did the novel not specify how he learned Lothal's air and water were being poisoned?
Not really. It just sort of implied that it was obvious from the fact that once the Empire came in that everything started getting really polluted and the Empire was building a whole bunch of factories and stripping away the forests and such. Things that anyone who had the eyes to see and wasn't intentionally turning a blind eye towards it could observe.
"give him enough credits to cover ten more days, but warned that this was the absolute limit." It's been a while since I read the book, was it her that warned him, or him that warned her?Supreme Emperor (talk) 02:07, September 25, 2017 (UTC)
He was warning her that he couldn't let him stay any longer than ten days. I edited it to try to make it more clear. ProfessorTofty (talk) 16:27, September 27, 2017 (UTC)
Can you also elaborate a bit on how little it would have taken to preserve Lothal's air and water supply?Supreme Emperor (talk) 02:46, October 2, 2017 (UTC)
Took care of that while addressing another objection above. I sorta had to go back to an earlier book, but I think what I added was a good example of this. ProfessorTofty (talk) 02:03, October 8, 2017 (UTC)
"but Laxo sheltered individuals only so long as he felt it to be to his own advantage." Is this really necessary to include in the intro, since it doesn't seem to have any effect on Holshef's fate (seeing as Laxo dies in the next sentence)?
Fair point. I edited to simply state why he was paying credits to Laxo. ProfessorTofty (talk) 00:11, February 20, 2018 (UTC)
"Laxo's orders to Spanjaf were intended to be punishment for an earlier attempt by the girl to cross him, but it was never to be." This sentence reads a bit awkward due to the double "to be". Please rewrite.
Simplified it to "for an earlier attempt to cross him". ProfessorTofty (talk) 00:11, February 20, 2018 (UTC)
Parts of the article go way too much into what Spanjaf is doing, specifically the "Hatching a plan" section. There are parts that can be rewritten from Holshef's perspective ("Four days later, Spanjaf visited Holshef" → "Four days later, Holshef was visited by Spanjaf") and in general that entire section needs a lot of trimming.1358(Talk) 02:28, February 13, 2018 (UTC)
I made the edit you suggested, albeit with my own choice of wording, and also cut the bit about her having nightmares about what was happening with Holshef. I also trimmed Spanjaf's conversation with her parents from the previous section. Is there anything else specific you would have me remove, because a lot of it seems necessary to me? ProfessorTofty (talk) 00:11, February 20, 2018 (UTC)
Per the discussion at the featured article nomination for Voorpee, I have gone ahead and removed all non-quoted instances of contractions from this article. ProfessorTofty (talk) 15:48, June 28, 2017 (UTC)