I feel like the P&T can be beefed up a lot. Take note of all of his dialogue, his actions, etc. and then see what they say about his personality. That includes what he thinks of himself, how he operates (be specific!), what others think of his capability—the fact that Ion called him "useless," and the fact that he swept the Papanoida apartment "thoroughly" but missed the Icon of the Moon Goddess should tell you something about him. Please see what you can do to expand his P&T; there's a lot more that can be said about him. Make sure you double-check all source material outside of the episodes as well.CC7567(talk) 23:08, August 1, 2012 (UTC)
Expanded. I did double check the sources but they really don't say anything that isn't already covered in the online entry in the Encyclopedia. Coruscantfan(Talk) 04:49, August 6, 2012 (UTC)
Please split up that big paragraph. Referring to the "Senate Murders" investigation as the episode name definitely is not appropriate; please find another way to format it. Also, I would ask that you provide more examples for the traits that you just added. When you say "Divo seemed useless to outsiders," outsiders such as who? (And what are "outsiders" here? It doesn't sound appropriate to say without further explanation.) When you say "Divo came close to arresting the wrong person," who is the wrong person? When it comes to the P&T section, it's always best to be as specific as possible. I realize that the inclination is to be more general in terms of his personality, but you need to back up what you say with specific evidence—and that's by being specific in providing examples. In addition, I'm noticing a number of grammar and sentence flow errors in your additions, particularly with missing punctuation. Please read through them carefully to catch them. CC7567(talk) 07:27, August 6, 2012 (UTC)
I rewrote the paragraph, split it, and made some other adjustments. The grammar and so forth should also be fixed. Coruscantfan(Talk) 23:06, August 11, 2012 (UTC)
Do we really know that Divo was a lieutenant by 22 BBY? If it's true, that isn't sourceable to the Encyclopedia, so please find a source that explicitly states it or remove this unverified info.
I'm still failing to see where the 22 BBY date is coming from. "Sphere of Influence" does not state that Divo was a lieutenant at the start of the war, nor does the Annual place the episode then. Please clarify. CC7567(talk) 05:35, August 22, 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, I'm going to need some help on the whole date thing. Obviously I'm trying to say he made it to lieutenant by the time of the episode. However, actually sourcing the dating of the episodes I have no clue how as I know there was a new time line put out which messed several thing up. But even after reading your summary I'm not sure how to accurately source the date for both episodes. Suggestions? Coruscantfan(Talk) 06:22, August 22, 2012 (UTC)
I believe you're talking about the new timeline from The Ultimate Visual Guide, so the only change was from "c. 21 BBY" to "21 BBY." The 22 BBY date is extrapolation and needs to be dropped, while the sourcing for the 21 BBY date is currently fine; it can be sourced to the Star Wars Annual 2011, which it currently is. "Senate Murders" has no confirmed date beyond the general c. 21 BBY one. CC7567(talk) 06:28, August 22, 2012 (UTC)
Is there a reason why Ion isn't mentioned in the bio? The fact that Divo reported his findings (or lack thereof) to Papanoida and Ion after he was finished in the apartment is definitely relevant info. Please check to see if anything else can be added from "Sphere of Influence."
Done. I don't see anything else relevant.
The coverage of "Senate Murders" in the bio is also rather scant. I realize that we shouldn't be copying every single detail from the episode into articles, but there's definitely room to expand the "Homicide case" section. For example, the actual reason that Amidala and Organa went to the docks is absent from the article. Why did they go there? Also, there's no detailed background on Farr's death or the fact that it coincided with the ongoing bill in the Senate. "Before he could do so, Purs was revealed by Amidala to be the culprit and the Rodian was instead arrested." How was Purs "revealed" to be the culprit? How did she kill Farr? Where were Divo and Purs when this happened? Were there others with them? What did Purs do after the truth was revealed? Most important, what did Divo do with his quick-thinking to arrest Purs? (That's missing from the P&T as well.) Much of the missing info concerns dialogue, which is just as important as the characters' actions in the episode. In general, this section sounds like it would belong in the intro rather than the body due to this level of coverage, so please rewatch the episode and beef up the section. There's a good deal of stuff to add that's explicitly shown on-screen, and also connections to be drawn from that stuff seen on-screen. There is also potentially stuff that will need to be added to the P&T once you've expanded "Homicide case," so please check as you go.
Please split up all of the big paragraphs, for this section and throughout the rest of the article, particularly the intro. I'll be running through specifics with you once I start reviewing. CC7567(talk) 05:35, August 22, 2012 (UTC)
Please note that the correct formatting for episode names is quotation marks (i.e. "Senate Murders"); italics are reserved for major works like the series itself, instead of individual episodes. Please rectify this in the Bts.CC7567(talk) 08:40, August 12, 2012 (UTC)
Please double-check all of your linking. Gray and red are disambiguation pages, and we don't link to disambigs in the in-universe section of articles. I would also recommend double-checking for overlinking and underlinking while you're at it.
Once you've adjusted the paragraph sizes, please also adjust the image placement. It's looking rather like an image farm right now, so some need to be moved or removed.CC7567(talk) 05:35, August 22, 2012 (UTC)
The paragraphs have been adjusted so the images should be fine now. Coruscantfan(Talk) 06:22, August 22, 2012 (UTC)
I would still recommend removing either File:HalleBurtoniArrested-SM.jpg or File:TanDivo-SWE.jpg. The fact that the former is to the right of a section title should indicate that they're just too close. One of them needs to be moved elsewhere in the article, or removed altogether. CC7567(talk) 06:28, August 22, 2012 (UTC)
I haven't been able to get access to the book from a local library but I've added the information you listed. Coruscantfan(Talk) 20:27, October 15, 2012 (UTC)
I don't have access to my copy at the moment, but I'm sure there are other users who do; you might consider checking which user pages link to the book in their collections. Please see what you can do, as this is required by GAN Rule 3. Also, apologies—I made a mistake about the poison; it's not Manax-root and hasn't been identified by name. CC7567(talk) 00:46, October 16, 2012 (UTC)
Checked, there was nothing new that isn't already covered by another source. Coruscantfan(Talk) 05:25, November 1, 2012 (UTC)
You should try to rewrite the Initial investigation section to read more from Divo's perspective.
You aren't consistent with your capitalization of "Senator".
In some cases its a title and others its a just a common noun. I did find two places where it was capitalized but shouldn't have been.
Context on what an LEP droid was.
A second murder: "Divo questioned the remaining others who else was aware" This is jumbled up pretty badly.
A lot of that section is very choppy.
A lot of the P&T is just a retread of what happened in the biography, and doesn't all directly address Divo's personality and capabilities. You did a good job beefing it up, but it needs to be refined a bit.
Intro: you mention that Divo was investigating the murders of Farr and Deechi, but then later state that Deechi's body was found after the investigation began. The order of events in chronologically confusing. Please clarify. Also, the intro makes it sound like Deechi's body was found at the docks, when the bio indicates otherwise.
Is there an article to be linked to for Papanoida's rescue of his daughters?
In the intro: A couple uses of "the" are confusing --- "Though Divo made assurances of his ultimate success in the investigation, the police droids had missed blood..." Since this is the first time the police droids are mentioned, it's probably better to provide context with a statement like "his police droids" or "the police droids on the case," since just saying "the police droids" sounds like the reader should already be familiar with them. Also, "during a scan of the apartment" --- whose apartment?
In "Initial investigation" --- can you early on in this section establish that the Republic and the Senate are headquartered on Coruscant? It doesn't actually come up until the Coruscant docks are later mentioned. An unfamiliar reader might not know where all this is taking place. Saying something like "Coruscant's Senate Building" would do the trick.
The first paragraph of this section is also missing a reference tag.
Is Divo a detective? "Behind the scenes" seems to imply that he is, but the word doesn't come up anywhere else in the article.
"Divo also lectured Amidala that he firmly believed in the importance of rules as without them, there would be chaos; thus they were essential to the maintenance of order." This kind of detail is good for "Personality and traits" (where you already have it) but is a bit too much of a line-by-line recount of a conversation for the biography.
"In order to secure the life of the other senators, Divo told them they would be placed under the protection of CSF and Senate Guard forces, but Lolo Purs refused and left the room." Are they still in Deechi's office? If so, how did Lolo get there?
Nice. But --- are they in the Chancellor's office? It later says "Divo activated the police droids outside of the Chancellor's office. They surprised Purs at the door..." If they're in Palpy's office, can you establish that right when they first get there?
I can't really tell which room they are in but I do establish when they enter Palpatine's office, if you look halfway down that same paragraph I wrote: ...they eventually captured her and brought her to the Chancellor's office. Initial questioning by Divo...
Skin color should be noted at the beginning of P&T.
Bah, sorry --- I forgot to note that his height should be, too. Also, his physical traits are currently sourced to the episode commentary --- is that correct? The infobox sources it all to his encyclopedia entry.
Should all be fixed.
"Reasonably, Divo could not have been expected to find blood underneath the icon as he had no reason to suspect it." That reads a lot like original research. As does the follow-up conclusion: "however, at the same time, the Papanoidas had failed to inform Divo of the discrepancy in their apartment and thereby did not provide Divo a vital clue that could have helped him solve the case." These kinds of inferences and conclusions don't really have a place in articles; we need to report on the facts without drawing conclusions from them.
I reworded that section, hopefully that will work better.
""and also failed to question why it was separate." Separate from what?
Sentence removed due to above objection.
"Divo displayed both the calmness and cynicism of a typical police officer" Can that be sourced to Senate Murders? The only other police officers in that episode are droids. As lame as this sounds, unless there's a source saying that that's what police officers are typically like in the Star Wars universe, then it should be jettisoned.
I know you're correct but I want to scream: "SERIOUSLY?!" lol... Anyway, I added sources that do mention that.
Statements such as "Divo was the opposite of a politician" and "This thought showed that..." also read like original research. The former should go, but the latter would be fine if it were reworded to focus solely on his keen sense for motive. The problem with saying things like "this showed that" is that they read like out-of-universe statements from an investigative essay, when it's an in-universe article that should be free of opinions, inferences, and authorial commentary. Later on, the sentence beginning with "Likewise, Divo's interrogation of Burtoni showed that he had completed a fairly through investigation" would be more in-universe and less original-research if it left out that first part and just stated that he completed a thorough investigation. Ditto "This demonstrated that while Divo may have..." and "Though he seemed incompetent, Divo's actions proved he was..." Tackle these sentences and see what you can do.
They should all be fixed.
Nice job with this one. Looks great.
Alphabetize those Encyclopedia entries in the Sources section! Even though this is his article, Divo's shouldn't go first. ;)
His voice actor will need to be sourced to something in "Behind the scenes" as it's not a self-sourcing statement.
"Behind the scenes" echoes some of the original research from the P&T: "Divo is dismissed as useless by the characters and blamed for failing to notice a clue though it had been the characters who had failed to point out the fact the icon had been moved which Divo and his droids would have had no reason to notice." Objectionable for the same reasons as stated above. :D
Sigh, well, I think that one should be fixed?
The "Adding Columbo to Star Wars" link has some more BTS info --- namely, that Tom Kenny drew inspiration from Columbo. There's some more good stuff in there, too, like comparing him to Kojak, comparing him to someone stepping out of another dimension, etc. Go through the whole thing and see what you can add.Menkooroo (talk) 12:32, October 9, 2012 (UTC)
I added some information from there. Coruscantfan(Talk) 21:13, October 15, 2012 (UTC)
A few more new ones: The capitalization of "Moon Goddess" isn't consistent --- should it always be capitalized? Our article capitalizes it even when not giving the full name "Icon of the Moon Goddess," for what it's worth.
"Even though Divo did not care for the politics or had the ability to skillfully maneuver the halls of power..." The grammar here is a little confusing; I'm not sure if it means he does or doesn't have the ability to maneuver the halls of power. Can you reword?
"the Papanoidas failed to inform Divo that the moon goddess statue was out of place..." and "While Papanoida's son, Ion, stated that he thought Divo was "worthless", the Papanoidas had not given Divo the information necessary to solve the case." If I remember the episode correctly, the Papanoidas don't notice that the Icon is moved until after Divo leaves. These sentences seems to imply that they know that fact while he's there and choose not to tell him --- can you word them to be more neutral and less blame-gamey?
You did a great job removing the OR from the BTS, but the sentence: "Divo was dismissed as useless by the characters and blamed for failing to notice a clue, although the characters failed to point out to him that the Icon of the Moon Goddess was not in the correct place." Is this necessary to include in the BTS at all? It's information that's already stated in the P&T. Not sure if there's any worth to repeating it.Menkooroo (talk) 08:32, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
Think of it as editorial preference. People who say Divo is a dumb detective and Padme and Papnoida are so smart for figuring things out (It would take a week-long rant to fully explain the ridiculousness of those ideas as well as the absurd notion that the main characters know better than everyone else) piss me off because the character was not written or played to be that way. However, little kids see it that way and grownups just go along with it. So for those who read this article I want to make sure they get hit over the head with the facts as stated by the creaters, actors, and everyone else who actually has a say and matters, and then I proceed to beat them to death with it. But I can adjust the wording if you think its OR. x) Coruscantfan(Talk) 04:41, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
Nah, it's not OR. But I think it's a bit much. The first two paragraphs of the BTS already heavily stress the fact that the encyclopedia entry conflicts with both the episode and with the statements made by Filoni and Tom Kenny, but the sentence in the third paragraph seems kind of shoehorned in. It's also misleading and not entirely accurate, as it still seems to imply that the Papanoidas knew about the Moon Goddess while Divo was there. The point that this sentence is trying to make has already been hammered home by both the P&T and the BTS (with this sentence already being in the P&T nearly verbatim), and I honestly think that the article is better off without saying it again.
Also, there's one unaddressed objection above about the Chancellor's office. Menkooroo (talk) 14:01, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
Whoops sorry missed that earlier. Coruscantfan(Talk) 23:17, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
Great. Let me know when you're able to check Star Wars: The Clone Wars Official Episode Guide Series 1 & 2 and we'll be gold. Menkooroo (talk) 00:53, October 22, 2012 (UTC)
The infobox is not loaded correctly, as I've indicated to you before. Please check.
It sounds almost like the ear comlink warrants an article, given its distinction and information from source material.
Its just called a comlink in the Character Encyclopedia but since Jaller Obrim also has one, I created a article.
"His rigid and sometimes pompous attitude allowed him to climb in the CSF hierarchy": does a source specifically say that, or something along those lines? It sounds like you're trying to mention two unrelated details (his attitude and his position) by connecting them together, which doesn't seem very accurate based on what we know. Please reword.
Wording changed which does have a source. (Interview with Kenny)
The Star Wars Annual 2011 only allows us to source TCW dates to it as "c. 21 BBY" or "around 21 BBY," not definitively 21 BBY as the article currently presents it. Please correct.
"Divo was also called to investigate the homicide of Senator Onaconda Farr": I'm nitpicking here, but Farr's death wasn't originally identified as a murder until after Divo got involved, due to his discovery of the poison; up until that point it was only a death. Please reword for accuracy.
"his dismissal of opinions from Senator Padmé Amidala": what exactly does "dismissal of opinions" mean?
I think this is addressed with the objection below.
I would suggest expanding the intro a bit if possible. One detail that would be helpful to mention is the fact that in addition to being Kaminoan (in relation to the poison that killed Farr), Burtoni was also one of Farr's political opponents, which was another factor in Divo's arrest of her. Please see what you can do.
Thanks for expanding, but unfortunately you've reached the other extreme, which is too much detail. The intro should only include what is necessary to the reader's most basic understanding of the character. It's rather play-by-play in its current state; I was only looking for perhaps several more sentences than the previous version, to get in a bit (but not too much) more detail. To put it more into perspective, the level of detail is currently too much to be an intro but not enough to be part of an article body. The intros that I've read from your articles in the past have been fairly accurate in terms of detail, so I know that you have a sense of how much detail there should be; it just needs to be applied here. Also, please note that conjecturally titled articles lacking official names such as the Reduced military spending bill cannot be directly referred to by name as such. CC7567(talk) 20:27, November 5, 2012 (UTC)
Yeah... I think I had a bout of temporary insanity driving me to over compensate. ;) Should be fixed now.
Please take a careful look (preferably with a spell-checker of some sort) at the additions you added. Also, "head way" is not the right use of the term. In addition, is there anything you can do to make the second intro paragraph flow better? A lot of the sentences are rather short and choppy, so the flow isn't very smooth. CC7567(talk) 17:11, November 9, 2012 (UTC)
"Tan Divo was born on the planet Coruscant": the definition of homeworld is not necessarily the place of one's birth. All we know is that it's is homeworld, nothing more. Please correct.
Please check the additions you just made for punctuation errors. I'm seeing a misplaced comma, as well as an unnecessary one, in the following sentence. CC7567(talk) 20:27, November 5, 2012 (UTC)
Who was Greedo? A bounty hunter? A senator? A random civilian? Also, it would be very helpful to have more context on the Papanoida situation from the episode, specifically the Trade Federation's blockade of Pantora, which would allow you to go into some detail about why Chi Eekway and Che Amanwe were kidnapped. Seeing as Divo was investigating their kidnapping, that would be an almost necessary detail to integrate.
The way that the additions are being presented gets a little confusing. I would suggest introducing them in the proper chronological order from the episode (the blockade, then the kidnapping, then introduce Divo and his investigation). CC7567(talk) 20:27, November 5, 2012 (UTC)
"hired the bounty hunter Greedo and a Gotal accomplice the two daughters": something's missing here. Also, the article is completely missing the part about the Separatist plot to manipulate Pantora to join the Confederacy; the "demanding it pay its debt" is just thrown out there without any context. CC7567(talk) 17:11, November 9, 2012 (UTC)
Done. I did add what I think should be enough context for purposes of understanding the reason of the kidnapping. I'm trying not to get too bogged down in details that don't specifically include Divo.
Given their relevance to Divo's life, the Clone Wars and the Republic should get mentioned at the beginning of the article body, not all the way down in "Homicides in the Senate."
"bypassing the Senate Guard": in what way?
"Lieutenant Divo was assigned as the inspector on the case and was assisted by his LEP servant droid. Samples were taken of the drinks and the Forensics Unit concluded that a poison had been given to the senator, thereby classifying the death as a homicide. After the funeral, the Rodian senator's political allies were summoned to the Supreme Chancellor's office." There are a number of more details that should be mentioned here. Seeing as it belonged to Divo, LEP-171B should be be mentioned by full name somewhere (and, preferably, referred to by full name throughout the article), instead of being simply pipelinked here. Because of the "drinks" mentioned here, it needs to be made clear prior to this passage that they were drinking wine (I'm wondering why Domaine de la Maison sur le Lac doesn't get mentioned at all, given its importance). Also, Palpatine should be referred to by name, instead of only his position being mentioned.
Was LEP-171B's designation from the episode or its guide? If not, the source in which the droid was identified needs to be cited. CC7567(talk) 20:27, November 5, 2012 (UTC)
Do we really know that the Forensics Unit was involved in Farr's autopsy? Divo only says "forensic report" in the episode, and the unit isn't referred to by name at all.
Yes, we know for a fact from Republic Commando: Triple Zero that all autopsies and the operation of the morgues was done by the Forensics Unit. But I'll pipelink it to forensics report since, you're right, it just says forensics not forensics unit.
In the P&T, the Encyclopedia entry is being used as a source for the fact that he had a "comlink ear implant," but to the best of my knowledge the only source that ever identified it as such, if any, was the Character Encyclopedia. Is it actually referred to as a "comlink ear implant" in the Character Encyclopedia? If not, we shouldn't assume that it's the same thing as an ear implant, which could be a different device for all we know (seeing as Divo's device is a comlink, not a hearing aid—again, as far as we know). In any case, the Character Encyclopedia should be used as a source here for the ear comlink, as it explicitly mentions it, not the Encyclopedia entry.
Please take some more time to see if there's any more detail you can add to the article from the episodes. Context is a main one, looking at the above objections. I'll continue with "Initial investigation" once these are addressed. CC7567(talk) 22:25, November 2, 2012 (UTC)
I believe those sections have all relevant context added. Coruscantfan(Talk) 03:21, November 5, 2012 (UTC)
The article's capitalization of "senator"/"Senator" needs to follow the Manual of Style. Let me know if you need clarification regarding this policy, because it can get confusing in some places.CC7567(talk) 20:27, November 5, 2012 (UTC)
The MOS states that when referring to a person by his/her title, the title should be capitalized; the example given is "the Admiral" when referring to Ackbar. That means that all uses of "the senator" or any similar usage needs to be capitalized throughout the article. Please rectify. CC7567(talk) 17:11, November 9, 2012 (UTC)
Ok, yeah I misunderstood that. Done.
"This led her to pursue a separate investigation with the assistance of Senator Bail Organa." Stemming from the previous sentence, what's being said here is the cause for Amidala's separate investigation was the fact that Divo "rejected" her "opinions as to the cause of Farr's death." Is that accurate? I don't believe that was the reason Amidala struck out on her own. Please check the episode and fix. She says it herself to Organa and Mon Mothma why she intends to investigate outside of Divo's investigation.CC7567(talk) 17:11, November 9, 2012 (UTC)
I did reword that section so that may cover this already. But, it may be somewhat over simplified, but I would say that for the intro its accurate that people get the basic idea. Amidala does discuss how Divo may not understand that ins and outs of the Senate/politics so she would better understand what may be going on. But the basic reason for her even thinking about along those lines is that Divo dismissed her suggestions that the death had to do with the bill during their conversation in the Chancellor's office. I can expand if you like, but I figured for the intro it should suffice for people to get the basic picture. Coruscantfan(Talk) 16:28, November 27, 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, what you changed is fine. Thanks for adjusting that. CC7567(talk) 20:17, November 27, 2012 (UTC)
The second paragraph of "Initial investigation" states that Divo went to the docks, backtracks a whole lot to provide a lot of context, then resumes with the chronology of events a bit later. I would suggest wording and ordering this as chronologically as possible, because it gets a bit confusing with the way it currently is. The first sentence of that paragraph in particular sticks out; maybe try removing it and then incorporating it to the proper chronology of events that follows.
"and their essential need for the maintenance of order": this sounds a bit too much like obvious paraphrasing of Divo's dialogue; it can be worded better. "Essential need" in particular is redundant.
I added them in. Side note: I've gone over the episode a dozen times but I'm still not sure on several occasions what scenes happen in which of those two buildings or in some cases which rooms they were in. This is also in response to your objection below. This series has done a horrible job in my opinion on separating the two so if you can tell what happens where, clarification would be appreciated.
I'll work on this with you when I give the article a final review. CC7567(talk) 21:32, December 10, 2012 (UTC)
"the lives of the other senators": who are the other senators?
Changed. Let me know if you need me to name them.
That's what I was asking for. Who exactly did Divo gather to take under his protection? CC7567(talk) 21:32, December 10, 2012 (UTC)
"Divo gathered all of them together": where?
See comment above.
"Though Divo tried to locate Burtoni, she was nowhere to be found." Where did he try to locate her? More detail is needed here, like the fact that he went to her office and the fact that he had several police droids search it.
"Ordering the Senate Guards and CSF droids to chase Burtoni, they": the dependent clause ("Ordering… chase Burtoni") isn't matching up with the subject that follows, which should be Divo (as he's the one doing the "ordering") but is instead "they." Please reword.
"they eventually captured her and brought her to the Chancellor's office." Who else was there? Currently it only sounds like Divo and Burtoni were there. Not all of the politicians need to be identified by name, but the important and relevant ones should. If you choose not to name all of them, that's fine; just make sure to provide indication that there were more than the ones you named (e.g. "Amidala, Organa, and several other senators").
How did Amidala "overwhelm" Purs? More detail, please.
"In dealing with other persons, Divo was the opposite of a politician." I get what you're saying here, but it's a bit of a generalization of a politician; I can't imagine that all of them act that way. I would suggest removing this or clarifying more what you're saying here.
Does Divo specifically say "stupidity" or call Amidala "stupid"? That's rather strong wording with heavy connotations, and it should only be used if the episode directly states it as such, which to my knowledge isn't the case. Please reword.
Ignorance probably is more accurate.
Divo's extreme dislike for paperwork (implied in "Senate Murders" and explicitly stated in New Battlefronts, and possibly also in the Character Encyclopedia) is missing from the P&T. Again, please go through all source material and make sure that all the necessary information is in the article.
Does the Character Encyclopedia confirm that his comlink is cybernetic? Please check. If it doesn't, it sound be removed from the "cyber" field in the infobox.
I've held off objecting on this topic because I wanted to first clarify it with you. I've noticed that the article isn't following WP:NPOV very well in several places; the P&T, in particular, portrays him as more of a hero than he was shown to be. I understand that you like the character—I do too—and I've read what you said to Menkooroo above. But regardless if we like the character or not, our articles still need to be as accurate to source material as possible; right now, there is an excess of bias toward him. Per WP:NPOV, articles need to present all information and perspectives fairly—the reader should be able to form his or her own opinions, instead of only seeing a single perspective being presented in the article. Your regard for the character can be shown in the amount of attention and detail that you put into the article; it doesn't have to be (and shouldn't be) defending the character from potential slander. Please see what you can do to make sure that the article adheres to WP:NPOV. I'd be happy to help with rewording or offer suggestions. I'll run through specific places with you once you've addressed the above objections. CC7567(talk) 18:31, December 2, 2012 (UTC)
Well, I'm defiantly biased towards the character that's no secret, but I did try to be as objective as I could especially in the BTS where I pointed out that the online entry conflicts with other sources. Ironically, I started out hating the character when he first appeared, but then I started reading all the background information and re-watched the episodes with all of that in mind and it put him a whole new light. And that's what I've tried to do is present all the information, as you said, so that a reader can make their own decision. Apparently I was still too slanted. :) But the real reason is that since all materials except for the online encyclopedia entry state he was a good detective, that's why I wrote him (throughout the article as well) in that light and, as I mentioned above, noted in the BTS that the encyclopedia conflicts with that statement. So I'm not really sure if there is "another side" that can really be presented. But, yes, if you can look through and give me suggestions that would be good. I can think of at least two places off hand where there may be this problem but I think it would be quicker and simpler if you just point out the specific problem areas and I address them. Coruscantfan(Talk) 05:04, December 10, 2012 (UTC)
I'm currently about to take final exams, so it might be a week or two (or unfortunately maybe more) before I can thoroughly run through the article with you to address this. As I've already mentioned, the P&T is what I'm mainly concerned about: the thing that's not entirely accurate is the way that the Papanoidas and Amidala are being presented as part of the reason for Divo's various lacks of success, and overall it's biased toward Divo. Again, I apologize that I'm not going to have time to run through specifics with you soon, but in the meantime try to take some time to check the neutrality of the P&T. Think about how someone who likes the character, and also how someone who doesn't like the character, might see him. That's not to say that there should be speculation/original research present in the article, but the article should present him as accurate as possible to source material while also being neutral in perspective. It should incorporate both how he sees himself and how others (e.g. Amidala, the Papanoidas) see him and his effectiveness. I'll start working with you on this hopefully soon. CC7567(talk) 21:32, December 10, 2012 (UTC)
Ok, I'll take a look at those areas. Good luck with your exams, I remember those can be stressful so take your time! Coruscantfan(Talk) 15:13, December 13, 2012 (UTC)
"Unbeknownst to the CSF, an Icon of the Moon Goddess had been moved from its original position in Papanoida's apartment." The capitalization of "icon" and the usage of "an" in front of it makes this seems a bit weird. Are there many such icons or just one? You could make it clearer by saying something like "Unbeknownst to the CSF, the Icon of the Moon Goddess, a religious idol in Papanoida's apartment, had been...".1358(Talk) 23:07, December 21, 2012 (UTC)
"Though Divo made assurances of his ultimate success in the investigation, the police droids with him missed blood on the bottom of Papanoida's Icon of the Moon Goddess during a scan of the Chairman's apartment. That prevented Divo from receiving a vital clue to the identity of the kidnappers, and the case from Divo's perspective went cold." The episode didn't show whether Divo, his droids, or both were responsible for missing the blood sample, but the article attributes it here to the droids. I would recommend rewording it to something like "his team missed blood" etc. for factual accuracy.
"Purs' reasons for the murder confirmed Divo's original theory, validating his abilities as a competent, if old school detective." This is coming across as rather pro-Divo, potentially more than it should be. When Purs was revealed as Farr's murderer, Divo wasn't pursuing his "original theory" that someone from Farr's past had killed him; he was after Burtoni. It doesn't seem like the "validating his abilities" bit is an accurate claim given that he had only stated that at the beginning of the case; it wasn't a lead that he ended up pursuing. Please reword this for accuracy or remove it.
"Her confession, ironically, proved Amidala's theory wrong and Divo right as it had been a mistake from Farr's past that had led to his murder." Same as above. The part about Divo being proved "right" would be correct and worth noting if Divo was looking for a "mistake from Farr's past" at the time, but he instead arrested Burtoni, one of his political opponents who had nothing to do with his past, so this doesn't come across as very accurate. Please rectify.
"While Divo was investigating the disappearance of Chairman Papanoida's daughters, the Papanoidas failed to inform Divo after he had left the scene that the Moon Goddess statue was out of place from the rest of the religious relics. Due to this, Divo did not know there was blood underneath the Moon Goddess statue. While Papanoida's son, Ion, stated that he thought Divo was "useless," the Papanoidas also did not give Divo the information necessary to solve the case." Well, yes, the Papanoidas didn't tell him where the icon was supposed to be, but this doesn't seem like an accurate argument as to why it was the Papanoidas' fault that Divo didn't find the blood—and also, there shouldn't be a pro-Divo argument at all in the article, given POV neutrality. My take (while attempting to be as objective as possible) on the episode is that Divo conducted what he believed, and said, was a "thorough sweep" of the Papanoidas' apartment, and yet he still missed the blood sample. Regardless of what happened with the Papanoidas, if he did a "thorough" search of the area, that means he thought he looked everywhere, but he didn't, as he didn't find the blood. The fact about the "thorough sweep" vs. the missed blood sample should be noted here in the P&T first and foremost, and then anything about the Papanoidas.
I would recommend wording it something like: "While Divo was investigating […], he conducted what he believed was a thorough sweep of their apartment but failed to find a sample of blood on the Moon Goddess statue. Papanoida's son, Ion, disregarded Divo as "useless" and, after he and his father found the blood, they chose to pursue the matter without Divo's assistance." If you have another idea of how to word it, that would be great, as long as it's accurate to what was shown in the episode. The implied claim that the Papanoidas were responsible for Divo's failure to find the blood doesn't seem entirely true.
Done. I expanded your basic wording but I believe the meaning is the same.
"in the end Divo was correct as Amidala's actions and failure to inform him of the lead caused the death of Senator Deechi." This comes off as a bit unilateral, for Amidala to be the sole reason that Deechi was murdered. There were a number of factors, some that we probably don't even know, that went into Purs's murder of Deechi, only one of which was Amidala's involvement. Also, the part about Deechi being correct "in the end" sounds like authorial backlash against Amidala, which shouldn't be present in a POV-neutral article. If you could explain the reasoning behind this, that would be helpful, as it isn't very clear right now. Currently, this part sounds like it needs to be reworded or removed because it's not presenting all information in a perspective-neutral manner.
I added explanation, I'm sure there were other reasons, there still is no explanation how Purs found out, but there are no other reasons given in the episode that I can find so I reworded those last few sentences, see if they make sense.
"Likewise, Divo's interrogation of Halle Burtoni presented the results of a thorough investigation based on the evidence collected and on the information that everyone had provided him. It was only when Amidala remembered a forgotten detail that the true killer was revealed." This sounds a bit more like viewer commentary than an accurate analysis of his personality and abilities. It's cited to the episode, which doesn't offer a direct, clear-cut take on his detective abilities. Regardless of what evidence he collected, the fact is that he arrested the wrong person (Burtoni, not Purs). Maybe Purs was good with hiding her tracks, or maybe Divo wasn't the best with finding them or questioning everyone thoroughly—in any case, we don't know who was really at fault for Divo's mis-arrest of Burtoni; there are too many grays involved and too much room for viewer interpretation to say what his exact level of skill is. If this was explicitly coming from a printed source, it would be acceptable to include in the article, but since it isn't I would ask that it be removed.
See comment after your last comment.
"It was also Divo who saved the day when Purs took Amidala hostage." The "saved the day" is rather flowery prose. I get that Divo had a big part in arresting Purs, but so did Amidala; the way that it's presented here suggests that only Divo could take credit for Purs's arrest. Please try to tone this down a bit in terms of the "pro-Divo" stance; only the facts directly from the episode should be present here, which is primarily that he took decisive action with activating the police droids, and not necessarily that he "saved the day."
See comment after your last comment.
In the Bts, I agree that the Encyclopedia is inconsistent with other source material and should be treated as inaccurate, but I think it would be more prudent to present Filoni's and Kenny's takes on the character as reasons to treat it as such, instead of using the episode. The part that mainly concerns me is how Amidala's "conclusions" and "false assumptions" are being sourced from the episode as the primary reason why the Encyclopedia isn't entirely accurate; the episode is more subject to viewer interpretation and isn't necessarily a good resource for this inconsistency. I would recommend removing the part about Amidala in the Bts and jumping right to Filoni's and Kenny's comments about the character.
If you have any questions about the above objections, I'd be happy to try to articulate them better, as they might be a bit confusing. I want to make sure that all the information from source material is being presented in an accurate and neutral manner, which would improve the article even more. Let me know if you need anything clarified or if you have other ideas as to how the article can be adjusted for accuracy. CC7567(talk) 22:40, December 24, 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for taking the time to hash these out. In response to two of your objections, I ended up just reorganizing the P&T as well as cutting and/or editing the areas covered by those two section. So if you could just look at the P&T section from the beginning and see if there are any other problems. Thanks! Coruscantfan(Talk) 04:33, December 28, 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for taking the time to work through these objections—it's looking a lot better and more professionally written now. I'll take a final look at the article soon. CC7567(talk) 06:22, December 28, 2012 (UTC)