FANDOM


[18:45] <@Toprawa> Ok, If I may have everyone's attention really quick.
[18:45] <@Toprawa> I'm going to give a quick, formal rundown of our new meeting procedure
[18:45] <@Toprawa> Which is this, pretty much
[18:45] <@Toprawa> We're implementing a new one-person voice system where only one person who is introducing a topic may speak at a time to avoid off-topic nonsense
[18:45] <@Toprawa> Admins, of course, are asked to refrain from talking at that time :P
[18:46] <@Toprawa> When the topic is introduced, everyone will be re-voiced for discussion
[18:46] <@Toprawa> Also, we have a new voting system
[18:46] <@Toprawa> Instead of everyone randomly throwing out support and oppose comments for us to decipher, we have a new bot to tally vote totals
[18:46] <@Toprawa> Instructions and commands can be found here http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Xd1358/test
[18:47] <@Toprawa> As always, people who are repeatedly off-topic may be removed from the meeting.
[18:47] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvvv 50UAAEVHM _Kyle_ charitwo DARTHSIDIOUS2
[18:47] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvvv DeusFigendi Jang|Away Jaymach Karo|away
[18:47] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvvv LO|Away MasterJonathan n7 Nayayen
[18:47] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvvv NuQ RJ_Morph See-Threepio Tm_T
[18:47] * Toprawa sets mode: +vvvv Tm_Tr Tyber y Zervonn
[18:47] <@Xd1358> Basically, this means that off-topic people will be quieted (+q) instead of devoiced like at earlier Mofferences
[18:47] * Cal_Jedi (~chatzilla@wookieepedia/Cal-Jedi) has joined #wookieepedia
[18:47] * ChanServ sets mode: +v Cal_Jedi
[18:47] * Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +v Cal_Jedi
[18:47] <@Xd1358> I will also now quiet those who do not meet the voting requirements.
[18:47] <+MasterJonathan> Tope, go over that again for Cal. :P
[18:47] * Xd1358 sets mode: +qqqq 50UAAEVHM!*@* _Kyle_!*@* DeusFigendi!*@* n7!*@*
[18:47] * Xd1358 sets mode: +qq RJ_Morph!*@* Zervonn!*@*
[18:48] <@Toprawa> Cal>
[18:48] <+NuQ> Yeah, this method is very  effective
[18:48] <@Toprawa> Actually, I'll just PM it to you
[18:48] * Cal_Jedi is now known as Cal|Moff
[18:48] <@Xd1358> (You can still speak, but not when your voice is removed.
[18:48] * Ineedaname (~Ineedanam@[REDACTED]) has joined #wookieepedia
[18:48] <+NuQ> we use it in our chat meetings, too
[18:48] * Toprawa sets mode: +v Ineedaname
[18:48] <@jSarek> Greetings Cal, Ineed.
[18:49] <+Cal|Moff> Hey, everyone.
[18:49] <+Ineedaname> IS THIS TEH MOFFEFEFERFENCE????
[18:49] <@Xd1358> NOEP
[18:49] <@jSarek> Morfference!
[18:49] * grunny (~grunny@wikia/vstf/countervandalism.user.Grunny) has joined #wookieepedia
[18:49] * ChanServ sets mode: +o grunny
[18:49] * Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +o grunny
[18:50] <@jSarek> Query: Does the bot command have to be by itself, or can it come in the context of a comment?
[18:50] <@jSarek> Greetings grun.
[18:51] <@Xd1358> jSarek: you can add a comment, the bot doesn't mind
[18:51] <+Karo|away> So anytime a ~ command is anywhere in a sentence?
[18:51] <@Xd1358> no
[18:51] <@Xd1358> ~support I like this thing
[18:51] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: There is no open vote on this channel.
[18:51] <@Xd1358> that works
[18:52] <@grunny> hey jS
[18:52] <@jSarek> But not ~oppose; you need to lead with the tilde. Got it.
[18:53] <+MasterJonathan> !markov Mofference
[18:53] <@Nuku-Nuku> Mofference is in GG3! :D
[18:53] * +Karo|away is listening to some British guy complaining about how evil is the European Union.
[18:53] <@Darth_Culator> Hmm.
[18:53] <+Karo|away> Funny.
[18:53] <@Darth_Culator> I wonder if I should quiet Nuku.
[18:53] <@Nuku-Nuku> Darth_Culator: Error: "I" is not a valid command.
[18:54] <@Xd1358> also, no one use Nuku or ChanServ to voice themselves :P
[18:54] <@Toprawa> T-minus 5 minutes
[18:55] <@Xd1358> Hmm, do we want a cool nick for the bot.
[18:56] <+Karo|away> The Hentainator
[18:56] <@Darth_Culator> ...
[18:56] <+MasterJonathan> ...
[18:56] * Darth_Culator sets mode: -v Karo|away
[18:56] <@Toprawa> MofferenceBot? :P
[18:56] <@Xd1358> ...right.
[18:56] <@Xd1358> aw
[18:56] * Darth_Culator sets mode: +v Karo|away
[18:56] <@Xd1358> well, we're not gonna use +m anyway with this new system
[18:56] * Xd1358 sets mode: -m
[18:56] * Exiledjedi (~Exiledjed@[REDACTED]) has joined #wookieepedia
[18:56] * ChanServ sets mode: +v Exiledjedi
[18:57] <@jSarek> Greetings, Exiled.
[18:57] <@Toprawa> 2-minute warning. Get your off-topic discussions out of your systems now. :P
[18:58] <+MasterJonathan> !markov Off-topic
[18:58] <@Nuku-Nuku> Off-topic chat is actually unfinished
[18:58] <@Toprawa> De-voicing everyone now in preparation. Please do not re-voice yourself with Nuku or ChanServ
[18:58] <+Cal|Moff> WAHOOOO
[18:58] <+Cal|Moff> Okay. All set. :P
[18:58] * Toprawa sets mode: -vvvv 50UAAEVHM _Kyle_ Cal|Moff charitwo
[18:58] * Toprawa sets mode: -vvvv DARTHSIDIOUS2 DeusFigendi Exiledjedi Ineedaname
[18:58] * Toprawa sets mode: -vvvv Jang|Away Jaymach Karo|away LO|Away
[18:58] * Toprawa sets mode: -vvvv MasterJonathan n7 Nayayen NuQ
[18:58] * Toprawa sets mode: -vvvv RJ_Morph See-Threepio Tm_T Tm_Tr
[18:58] <@jSarek> THE PURPLE TENTACLE BEING RESPONSIBLE FOR FEELING OUT THE CONSENSUS OF WOOKIEEPEDIA SCARES ME
[18:58] <@Xd1358> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/File:StayOnTopic.jpg That is all.
[18:58] * Toprawa sets mode: -vvv Tyber y Zervonn
[18:59] <Jang|Away> !markov Mofference
[18:59] <@Nuku-Nuku> Mofference quote, right there.
[18:59] <Jang|Away> heh
[18:59] <@Toprawa> Brace yourselves
[18:59] <@Toprawa> 5 seconds
[18:59] * Karo|away is now known as Karohalva
[19:00] <@Toprawa> Here we go
[19:00] <@Toprawa> Welcome everyone to Mofference 2012.
[19:00] * Darth_Culator sets mode: +q Nuku-Nuku!*@*
[19:00] <@Toprawa> I'm sure everyone has had a chance to take a look at the agenda.
[19:00] <@Toprawa> We will go in descending order.
[19:00] <@Darth_Culator> Wait.
[19:00] <@Darth_Culator> I BID YOU ALL DARK GREETINGS!
[19:00] <@Darth_Culator> There.
[19:00] <@Darth_Culator> Go ahead.
[19:00] <Cal|Moff> :D
[19:00] <@Toprawa> THanks :P
[19:00] <@Toprawa> Ok, Xd1358.
[19:00] <@Toprawa> Your topic is first.
[19:01] <@Toprawa> Ratifying our new IRC cloak request system. 1358 (Talk) 20:53, January 20, 2012 (UTC)
[19:01] <@Toprawa> You have the floor.
[19:01] * Xd1358 sets mode: +m
[19:01] <@Xd1358> Basically, we want to make our cloaks formal.
[19:01] <@Xd1358> Let me get the link
[19:01] <@Xd1358> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:IRC/Cloaks
[19:01] <@Xd1358> there
[19:02] <@Xd1358> so yeah, all I can think needs discussing is whether we want to modify the requirements
[19:02] * Xd1358 sets mode: -m
[19:02] <@Xd1358> discuss
[19:02] <MasterJonathan> Looks good to me.
[19:02] <@Xd1358> The only thing I could consider changing is the one month requirement for the wiki account
[19:03] <Jang|Away> Yeah I was going to say something like that
[19:03] <Nayayen> To something longer?
[19:03] <@Xd1358> A bit shorter, imo.
[19:03] <Jang|Away> Yeah
[19:03] <@Toprawa> Two weeks? Three?
[19:03] <@Xd1358> Some users become established and trusted pretty fast
[19:03] <@Xd1358> Two weeks could be good
[19:03] <Karohalva> Higher edit requirement.
[19:03] <@grunny> I think a month is enough personally
[19:03] <MasterJonathan> I have no problem with two weeks.
[19:03] * Ineedaname (~Ineedanam@[REDACTED]) Quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.8/20100722150946])
[19:03] <Cal|Moff> Provided they /are/ good and all, it should be good.
[19:04] <Jang|Away> Three weeks :P
[19:04] <@grunny> they can just wait another two weeks, it's not going to kill them :P
[19:04] <@Toprawa> I don't mind a month myself.
[19:04] * Ineedaname (~Ineedanam@[REDACTED]) has joined #wookieepedia
[19:04] * NuQ (~NUQ@[REDACTED]) Quit (Quit: I think the adventure is this way!)
[19:04] <@Xd1358> It's not that big of a thing, really.
[19:04] <@jSarek> I don't think a month is out of line.
[19:04] <@Xd1358> Does freenode require the week thing, by the way?
[19:04] <Cal|Moff> It's not that long of a wait.
[19:04] <@Xd1358> Culator?
[19:04] * Rubedo ([REDACTED]@gateway/web/freenode/[REDACTED]) has joined #wookieepedia
[19:04] <@Darth_Culator> Not that I know of.
[19:04] <@jSarek> While I don't think we currently do, we used to have productive users who were also support staff. Is there wome way we can re-word the parenthetical comment on the third requirement to reflect that?
[19:04] * Cal|Moff is now known as Cal_Jedi
[19:05] <Rubedo> So then. Dark Greetings and all that.
[19:05] <@Xd1358> Rubedo: hey, mind switching to NaruHina
[19:05] <Jang|Away> I don't mind a month, maybe three if that's fine. But I never seen a newer user log into IRC. If they do, it's normally the gateway.
[19:05] <Exiledjedi> I think that 50 edits in the last three months seems like kind of a low number.
[19:05] <@Xd1358> If so, I think we could abolish the IRC account week.
[19:05] <@Xd1358> If we're going with one month
[19:05] * Rubedo is now known as NaruHina
[19:06] <@grunny> Exiledjedi: we expect less of people to retain their admin rights ;)
[19:06] <Karohalva> 100+ edits at least.
[19:06] <Jang|Away> heh
[19:06] <Exiledjedi> I didn't think about it that way.
[19:06] <@Toprawa> 50 edits the requirement to be able to vote on consensus issues. I think it should be enough to allow someone to get a cloak, no?
[19:06] <@jSarek> Oh, I misread the intent of the parenthetical. Scratch my concern.
[19:06] <@CavalierOne> A standard number across the board is less confusing.
[19:06] <Jang|Away> I don't mind that
[19:06] <Jang|Away> yeah
[19:06] <Cal_Jedi> Sounds good
[19:06] <@Xd1358> Seems fine to me
[19:06] <@jSarek> Toprawa: As far as I am concerned.
[19:07] <Karohalva> I forgot the Rule of 50.
[19:07] <@Toprawa> Standard is good, as Cav says
[19:07] <@Toprawa> Easy to remember, at any rate
[19:07] <Exiledjedi> Sounds fine to me.
[19:07] <Karohalva> Ok
[19:07] <Jang|Away> Sure
[19:07] <@Xd1358> alright, so fine keeping the requirements?
[19:07] * MasterJonathan (~Miranda@wikia/MasterJonathan) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[19:08] <@Toprawa> Are you still concerned about the one-week think, ecks?
[19:08] <@Toprawa> thing*
[19:08] * MasterJonathan (~Miranda@wikia/MasterJonathan) has joined #wookieepedia
[19:08] * Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +v MasterJonathan
[19:08] <@Xd1358> I think we could remove that, yes
[19:08] * Xd1358 sets mode: -v MasterJonathan
[19:08] <@Toprawa> Ok, directing discussion back to that.
[19:08] <@Toprawa> Thoughts?
[19:08] <MasterJonathan> What? :P
[19:08] <@CavalierOne> If its not required by Freenode, then I can see it making no difference.
[19:08] <@Toprawa> MJ> About the 1-week Freenode account thing
[19:08] <@jSarek> I think a minimum of one week to see how people do on IRC is warranted.
[19:09] <@Toprawa> I'm ok with it myself
[19:09] <MasterJonathan> It helps ensure we don't waste our efforts on a cloak that will never get used.
[19:09] <@Toprawa> A week isn't going to change much
[19:09] * See-Threepio (user@[REDACTED]) Quit (Quit: Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)
[19:09] <@jSarek> We've had users who made good edits but were a PAIN on IRC. I wouldn't want them representing us on other channels.
[19:09] <@Xd1358> True, that
[19:09] <Cal_Jedi> That is true.
[19:09] <Exiledjedi> Yeah.
[19:09] <@Darth_Culator> That was pretty much the idea.
[19:09] <@Toprawa> Ok, I'm going to open up voting for this, then, if there are no more concerns
[19:09] <@Xd1358> well, then
[19:09] <Jang|Away> Tope: Yeah I don't mind it either
[19:09] <@Toprawa> Vote to ratify this thing.
[19:10] <@Toprawa> ~open
[19:10] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[19:10] <Karohalva> ~support
[19:10] <@PurpleTentacle> Karohalva: Support vote counted.
[19:10] <Jang|Away> ~support
[19:10] <@PurpleTentacle> Jang|Away: Support vote counted.
[19:10] <@jSarek> ~support
[19:10] <Nayayen> ~support
[19:10] <@PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Support vote counted.
[19:10] <MasterJonathan> !support
[19:10] <@Darth_Culator> ~support
[19:10] <@Nuku-Nuku> MasterJonathan: Error: "support" is not a valid command.
[19:10] <@PurpleTentacle> Nayayen: Support vote counted.
[19:10] <@PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted.
[19:10] <@Xd1358> ~support
[19:10] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[19:10] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[19:10] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[19:10] <@Toprawa> ~support
[19:10] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[19:10] <@grunny> ~support
[19:10] <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
[19:10] <MasterJonathan> ~support
[19:10] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[19:10] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[19:10] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[19:10] <Exiledjedi> ~support
[19:10] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[19:10] <@Toprawa> ~close
[19:10] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[19:10] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[19:10] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 12, Oppose: 0
[19:10] <@Toprawa> Cloak measure ratified.
[19:10] <NaruHina> ~support
[19:10] <@PurpleTentacle> NaruHina: There is no open vote on this channel.
[19:10] <@Xd1358> fwiw, http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:IRC/Cloak_requests go go go
[19:10] <Jang|Away> awesome
[19:11] <@Toprawa> I'm going to try and wait to get everyone's vote in, apologies if I miss you
[19:11] <@Toprawa> I'm going to give about 10 seconds after the last vote is cast, then tally
[19:11] <@Toprawa> Moving on to second topic.
[19:11] <NaruHina> Could you wait a bit to close the votes. Dial-Up didn't make it. Dx
[19:11] * Toprawa sets mode: +m
[19:11] <@Toprawa> Yeah, that's why I mean, Naru
[19:11] <@Toprawa> Ok, ecks still has the floor.
[19:11] <@Toprawa> Discussing limiting the editing of userpages to registered users only. This is easily doable using Special:AbuseFilter. 1358 (Talk) 20:53, January 20, 2012 (UTC)
[19:12] <@Xd1358> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Xd1358/test Read item number 2. :P
[19:12] * Xd1358 sets mode: -m
[19:12] <@Xd1358> I'm for doing version number one.
[19:12] * _Kyle_ (~Kyle_@[REDACTED]) Quit (Quit: Warning! you have run out of internet)
[19:12] <Jang|Away> :D
[19:13] <@Toprawa> I should say it's a pain to determine when someone is actually the user who forget to sign in or a wayward anon.
[19:13] <@Toprawa> The typical response is "PLease log in to edit user page."
[19:13] <@CavalierOne> And they are generally reverted in any case. This would save a little work.
[19:13] <Jang|Away> heh yeah
[19:13] <Nayayen> If they forgot to sign in, then the fact they can't edit the page would then make them aware of the fact :P
[19:14] <@jSarek> Can AbuseFilter be set so that IP address pages can still be edited by unregistered users? It's rare, but we have had some productive users who don't want to register, who possibly should be allowed to make edits to the page that represents them.
[19:14] <@Xd1358> Hence why we could have a cool warning like http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Xd1358/test/1
[19:14] <Cal_Jedi> It only takes five seconds to sign in. It would save a lot of hassle.
[19:14] <NaruHina> No brainer
[19:14] <@Xd1358> jSarek: we don't do userpages for anons
[19:14] <@Xd1358> they get deleted, seeing as IPs are generall dynamic
[19:14] <@Xd1358> generally*
[19:14] <@jSarek> Good point.
[19:14] <Jang|Away> I don't mind that warning
[19:14] <@Toprawa> I'm fine with Xd's proposal
[19:14] <@Darth_Culator> I'm all for version 1.
[19:15] <Cal_Jedi> Warning looks good.
[19:15] <@Xd1358> Do we want to to have it a) warn b) disallow c) both?
[19:15] <Ineedaname> I've known Havac to edit pages while not logged in for whatever reason, so I'd be against disabling it
[19:15] <Cal_Jedi> both
[19:15] <@grunny> both
[19:15] <@Darth_Culator> Both.
[19:15] <@Toprawa> Both
[19:15] <Nayayen> Both
[19:15] <@CavalierOne> Both
[19:15] <Jang|Away> both
[19:15] * Menkooroo ([REDACTED]@wookieepedia/Menkooroo) has joined #wookieepedia
[19:15] * ChanServ sets mode: +v Menkooroo
[19:15] * Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +v Menkooroo
[19:15] <NaruHina> Both
[19:15] <Ineedaname> Warn
[19:15] <@Xd1358> Both
[19:15] * Xd1358 sets mode: -v Menkooroo
[19:15] <MasterJonathan> Can individual users be exempted?
[19:15] <@grunny> if needed
[19:15] <@Xd1358> individual IPs, possibly
[19:16] <Exiledjedi> Both
[19:16] <@Xd1358> Ineedaname: we can do the second version too; it exempts subpages
[19:16] <@grunny> it's easy to do in the AbuseFilter, but that would obviously be case-by-case
[19:16] <MasterJonathan> Then disallow and IPs can be exempted if there's a legitimate reason.
[19:16] <@Xd1358> I guess that's fine.
[19:17] <NaruHina> If they want a page, they should register, IMO.
[19:17] <@jSarek> IIRC, when Havac was doing his summers without cookies, he was on a stable IP.
[19:17] <@Xd1358> we can exempt individual pages as well, if needed
[19:17] <@jSarek> So the IP exemption would work just fine for him.
[19:18] <@Toprawa> So we're leaning toward Option 2 with both options enabled?
[19:18] <@jSarek> Well, there we go, then. In that case, Both.
[19:18] <MasterJonathan> Tope: that's my opinion
[19:18] <@Toprawa> Correct me if I'm wrong before I start the vote
[19:18] <@Xd1358> So yeah, "warn and disallow EXCEPT on subpages"?
[19:19] <NaruHina> Yap.
[19:19] <@Toprawa> Sounds good.
[19:19] <Exiledjedi> Yes
[19:19] <@Toprawa> Ok. Vote on ratifying Option 2 with both options enabled except on subpages
[19:19] <@Toprawa> ~open
[19:19] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[19:19] <@grunny> ~support
[19:19] <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
[19:19] <Jang|Away> ~support
[19:19] <@PurpleTentacle> Jang|Away: Support vote counted.
[19:19] <Nayayen> ~support
[19:19] <@Xd1358> ~support
[19:19] <@PurpleTentacle> Nayayen: Support vote counted.
[19:19] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[19:19] <@GreenTentacle> ~support
[19:19] <MasterJonathan> ~support
[19:19] <@PurpleTentacle> GreenTentacle: Support vote counted.
[19:19] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[19:19] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[19:19] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[19:19] <Karohalva> ~support
[19:19] <@PurpleTentacle> Karohalva: Support vote counted.
[19:19] <@Toprawa> ~support
[19:19] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[19:19] <@Darth_Culator> ~support
[19:19] <@jSarek> ~support
[19:19] <@PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Support vote counted.
[19:19] <@PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted.
[19:19] <NaruHina> ~support
[19:19] <@PurpleTentacle> NaruHina: Support vote counted.
[19:19] <Exiledjedi> ~support
[19:19] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[19:19] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[19:19] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[19:19] <Ineedaname> ~oppose
[19:19] <@PurpleTentacle> Ineedaname: Oppose vote counted.
[19:19] <@Toprawa> ~close
[19:19] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[19:19] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[19:19] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 14, Oppose: 1
[19:20] <@Toprawa> Proposal ratified.
[19:20] <@Toprawa> Item 3
[19:20] <@Toprawa> Discussing our abandoned WookieeProject IRC channels. There are currently 10 WookieeProject channels of which, from what I've seen, only three are in somewhat active use (that being TCW, KOTOR, and VG). Do we want to keep them, delete them, or merge them into some sort of channel dedicated to all WookieeProjects? 1358 (Talk) 20:53, January 20, 2012 (UTC)
[19:20] * Toprawa sets mode: +m
[19:20] <@Toprawa> Ecks, go
[19:20] <@Xd1358> Really a star on the floor today.
[19:20] <@Xd1358> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Xd1358/test Item 3 this time. Read. ;)
[19:20] * Xd1358 sets mode: -m
[19:20] <MasterJonathan> Get rid of them somehow, prefer not to create a merged channel unless we can be sure it will actually be used.
[19:21] <Cal_Jedi> I prefer the last option on there.
[19:21] <@Xd1358> I'm leaning towards that one as well.
[19:21] * Karohalva isn't part of any project so he refrains from opinion.
[19:21] <Jang|Away> poor CT
[19:21] <Jang|Away> yeah the last
[19:21] <Exiledjedi> I also like the last option.
[19:21] <Nayayen> Of the four options, the last one is good. A merged channel still might not be used, but at least it's then only one channel.
[19:21] <@Xd1358> We can always reopen them if there's a need.
[19:21] <@jSarek> How much usage do the active channels get?
[19:22] <@Toprawa> Note that if users seem to focus on one topic in this merged channel, we can always create or recreate a separate channel for them
[19:22] <@Xd1358> TCW and VG are in daily use
[19:22] <Cal_Jedi> WP:VG gets used pretty much every day.
[19:22] <@Xd1358> KOTOR has very sporadic activity
[19:22] <@CavalierOne> And if a certain project begins to grow, the channel can always be recreated.
[19:22] <@Xd1358> all others have basically 1 or less visits per month
[19:22] <NaruHina> WookieeProjects have become a little decentralized lately.
[19:22] <Jang|Away> I say keep the channels, but go for the last option personally
[19:22] <@CavalierOne> Also, a merged channel may get the individual projects jump started again.
[19:22] <@grunny> yeah, it's easy to recreate, so there's no harm removing the channels
[19:22] <@Toprawa> Ok, merge inactive channels into one is getting the most support.
[19:23] <@Toprawa> Opening up voting for Option 4 there
[19:23] <@Toprawa> ~open
[19:23] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[19:23] <@grunny> ~support
[19:23] <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
[19:23] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[19:23] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[19:23] <Nayayen> ~support
[19:23] <Jang|Away> ~support
[19:23] <@PurpleTentacle> Nayayen: Support vote counted.
[19:23] <@PurpleTentacle> Jang|Away: Support vote counted.
[19:23] <@Xd1358> ~support
[19:23] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[19:23] <Exiledjedi> ~support
[19:23] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[19:23] <@Toprawa> ~support
[19:23] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[19:23] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[19:23] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[19:23] <@jSarek> ~support
[19:23] <MasterJonathan> ~support
[19:23] <@PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Support vote counted.
[19:23] <@Darth_Culator> ~support
[19:23] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[19:23] * Menkooroo ([REDACTED]@wookieepedia/Menkooroo) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[19:23] <@PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted.
[19:23] <NaruHina> ~support
[19:23] <@PurpleTentacle> NaruHina: Support vote counted.
[19:23] <@Toprawa> ~close
[19:23] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[19:23] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[19:23] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 12, Oppose: 0
[19:23] <@Toprawa> All inactive subchannels will be merged into a central channel.
[19:23] * Toprawa sets mode: +m
[19:24] <@Toprawa> Item 4.
[19:24] <@Toprawa> Treatment of unidentified articles in respect to infobox titles. Currently, we have a disparate way of filling out the name field in unidentified-titled articles. Some articles include the "unidentified," and some don't. We should choose one as our standard and go with it. Toprawa and Ralltiir 21:04, January 20, 2012 (UTC)
[19:24] <@Enochf> There. I now officially declare having red Planet of Twilight worth it. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Big_Green_Fish
[19:24] <@Toprawa> Here were the linked examples, for reference:
[19:24] <@Xd1358> Bah, Enochf, stay on topic! :P
[19:24] <@Toprawa> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Unidentified_space_battle_(Saesee_Tiin)
[19:24] <@Toprawa> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Unidentified_female_Imperial_Knight_(Attack_on_Emperor_Fel)
[19:24] <@Enochf> Ist derst drie Mrrfrrence?
[19:24] <@Toprawa> Yes, please stay on topic
[19:25] <@Toprawa> Opening up discussion now.
[19:25] * Toprawa sets mode: -m
[19:25] <MasterJonathan> It's OOU, don't include it.
[19:25] <NaruHina> We should omit the parenthetical note in the infobox.
[19:25] <Karohalva> That.
[19:25] <Jang|Away> How is it OOU, Jonathan?
[19:25] <MasterJonathan> Naru: That's the next item on the agenda
[19:25] <@Enochf> Couldn't we allow blank name fields for unidentified folk?
[19:26] <@jSarek> Whatever title we put will be OOU, because they're presumable identified in-universe.
[19:26] <@CavalierOne> I would tend to say that the infobox title should match the page title.
[19:26] <@GreenTentacle> Per Cav.
[19:26] <@jSarek> *presumably
[19:26] <@Darth_Culator> Now there's an idea.
[19:26] <@Darth_Culator> Could we have an infobox without a title?
[19:26] <@grunny> per jS and Cav
[19:26] <MasterJonathan> Per jSarek. They're identified IU, so "unidentified" is OOU.
[19:26] <Nayayen> I think it should be included, if only because "Pilot" or "Space battle" as the infobox title sounds really odd.
[19:26] <NaruHina> It's for organizing article placement and it clutters the infobox field more than it need be.
[19:26] <Jang|Away> hmm, I like Cav's idea
[19:26] <Exiledjedi> I don't really see the infobox as in-universe, I would just put the page title in the infobox.
[19:26] <Ineedaname> Infobox without a title would look weird
[19:26] <@Toprawa> I agree with INAN
[19:26] <@Xd1358> per Inan
[19:26] <@Toprawa> I think it should have something
[19:26] <Jang|Away> Definitely
[19:27] <@GreenTentacle> Yeah.
[19:27] <@Enochf> Aw
[19:27] <Cal_Jedi> I don't always like the Unidentified part, but it is more help than it is harm.
[19:27] <@Toprawa> Ok, since this is obviously going to be a divided issue, I figured ahead of time this would be a simple plurality vote, for the sake of adopting one form one way or another.
[19:27] <NaruHina> We've had "Unidentified whatever" forever and it works.
[19:27] <@Toprawa> If you like the "Unidentified" vote Support. If you want no "Unidentified" vote Oppose.
[19:27] <@Enochf> jSarek does have a point ^_^ IU nobody has no name
[19:27] <@Toprawa> ~open
[19:27] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[19:27] <Nayayen> ~support
[19:27] <@PurpleTentacle> Nayayen: Support vote counted.
[19:27] <MasterJonathan> ~oppose
[19:27] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Oppose vote counted.
[19:27] <Karohalva> ~oppose
[19:27] <@PurpleTentacle> Karohalva: Oppose vote counted.
[19:28] <@Darth_Culator> ~oppose
[19:28] <@PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Oppose vote counted.
[19:28] <Exiledjedi> ~support
[19:28] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[19:28] <NaruHina> ~support
[19:28] <@PurpleTentacle> NaruHina: Support vote counted.
[19:28] <Jang|Away> ~support
[19:28] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[19:28] <@PurpleTentacle> Jang|Away: Support vote counted.
[19:28] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[19:28] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[19:28] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[19:28] <@Enochf> Eh
[19:28] <@Enochf> ~support
[19:28] <@PurpleTentacle> Enochf: Support vote counted.
[19:28] <@Toprawa> ~support
[19:28] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[19:28] <@grunny> ~support
[19:28] <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
[19:28] <@jSarek> ~Support
[19:28] <@PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Support vote counted.
[19:28] <@GreenTentacle> ~support
[19:28] <@PurpleTentacle> GreenTentacle: Support vote counted.
[19:28] <@Xd1358> ~support
[19:28] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[19:28] <@Toprawa> Closing vote in 10 seconds. Vote now if you haven't.
[19:28] <@Toprawa> ~close
[19:28] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[19:28] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[19:28] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 12, Oppose: 3
[19:29] <@Toprawa> Consensus is to "Unidentified" in name infobox field.
[19:29] <@Toprawa> use*
[19:29] * MasterFred ([REDACTED]@gateway/web/freenode/[REDACTED]) has joined #wookieepedia
[19:29] * Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +v MasterFred
[19:29] <@Toprawa> Item 4 is very similar and will also be a plurality vote.
[19:29] * Darth_Culator sets mode: -v MasterFred
[19:29] * Toprawa sets mode: +m
[19:29] <@Toprawa> Or Item 5, rather
[19:29] <@Toprawa> Treatment of parenthetical descriptors in article titles in respect to infobox titles. Same thing as the above topic, except this is for articles that have parenthetical descriptions in the name field. Some articles include them, and some don't. Let's choose one as standard. Toprawa and Ralltiir 21:04, January 20, 2012 (UTC)
[19:29] <@Toprawa> Links:
[19:29] <@Toprawa> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith_holocron_(Kruskan)
[19:29] <@Toprawa> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kadir_(Tarisian)
[19:30] * Toprawa sets mode: -m
[19:30] <@Toprawa> Discuss
[19:30] <MasterJonathan> Include for conjectural titles, but not for canonical titles.
[19:30] <@Darth_Culator> Well, this is not exactly the same.
[19:30] <MasterJonathan> For conjectural titles, the whole title is a descriptor, so there's no reason to treat the parenthetical differently. For canonical titles, however, the title in the infobox should be its actual canonical name, which the parenthetical isn't part of.
[19:30] <NaruHina> Oh, whoops, skipped an item number. x)
[19:30] <@Enochf> Oh, Kadir got demoted to a parenthetical?
[19:30] <@Enochf> I loved that janitor
[19:30] <Exiledjedi> As I said before, I think that the infobox should contain the whole page title.
[19:30] <NaruHina> Parenthetical notes are for organizing article placement and it clutters the infobox field more than it need be.
[19:30] <Nayayen> They're just to differentiate between articles with the same name yes? Then they shouldn't need to be included in the actual article (in this case, the infobox)
[19:30] <@Enochf> IU the name is the name
[19:31] <Ineedaname> Against including the parenthetises unless they're part of the actual name
[19:31] <Karohalva> Parentheticals aren't part of the name
[19:31] <@grunny> I reckon remove the parentheses, they are only included in the page title to differentiate between two articles with the same name. No need to clutter the infobox with it
[19:31] <Jang|Away> Since there could be many examples with the same name, canon or conjecture, we should keep the parenthesis for all.
[19:31] <NaruHina> It's not like in the article we're going to say "This dock worker (Coruscant) blah blah blah"
[19:31] <@grunny> though I'm easy on it either way
[19:31] <@CavalierOne> Indeed. Its not the same as item 4. If its a clear case of two articles sharing the same name and needing a descriptor, then the parenthesis aren't needed in the infobox.
[19:32] <@Enochf> And as always, some canon source may come up somewhere that gives so-and-so a first name anyway
[19:32] <Jang|Away> heh
[19:32] <Exiledjedi> Or a last name.
[19:32] <@Darth_Culator> Since we just standardized on the "unidentifieds" I think MJ's idea makes the most sense. Always include for conjecture, always exclude for canonical names where we only have it for disambiguation.
[19:32] <@Enochf> Keeping It Clean: The Kadir Story
[19:32] <Karohalva> Technically, it's IU to call him Kadir the Janitor.
[19:32] <@Toprawa> MJ/Culator makes sense
[19:32] <@CavalierOne> Per Culator
[19:32] * Menkooroo ([REDACTED]@wookieepedia/Menkooroo) has joined #wookieepedia
[19:32] * ChanServ sets mode: +v Menkooroo
[19:33] <@Enochf> Hear hear
[19:33] * Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +v Menkooroo
[19:33] * ChanServ sets mode: -v Menkooroo
[19:33] <NaruHina> The infobox name should be as short as possible for unidentifieds,
[19:33] <@Enochf> I get EJ's point, but that much standardization is unnecessary
[19:33] <@Toprawa> For Menkooroo's reference: Darth_Culator	Since we just standardized on the "unidentifieds" I think MJ's idea makes the most sense. Always include for conjecture, always exclude for canonical names where we only have it for disambiguation.
[19:33] <Menkooroo> Sounds good.
[19:34] <@Enochf> Compactly phrased
[19:34] <Menkooroo> So Jak (Nautolan) should just be Jak in his infobox.
[19:34] <@grunny> yeah, MJ/Culator's makes the most sense
[19:34] <@jSarek> I think we may be getting too complicated here.
[19:34] <NaruHina> Well, the name in general, but the parentheses note just pushes it even further.
[19:34] <Ineedaname> I don't see why it should be included in any case of disambiguation
[19:34] <MasterFred> idk how far behind I am, by parentheticals shouldn't be in infighter.
[19:34] <MasterFred> *infoboxes
[19:34] <@Toprawa> the MJ/Culator idea is getting the most favor, so I'm going to open up for voting on that idea.
[19:35] <@Toprawa> Voting on this: Darth_Culator Since we just standardized on the "unidentifieds" I think MJ's idea makes the most sense. Always include for conjecture, always exclude for canonical names where we only have it for disambiguation.
[19:35] <@Toprawa> ~open
[19:35] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[19:35] <MasterJonathan> ~support
[19:35] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[19:35] <Menkooroo> ~support
[19:35] <@PurpleTentacle> Menkooroo: Support vote counted.
[19:35] <Jang|Away> ~support
[19:35] <NaruHina> It's not like we need the differentation after the person has found the page their looking for.
[19:35] <@PurpleTentacle> Jang|Away: Support vote counted.
[19:35] <Exiledjedi> ~oppose
[19:35] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Oppose vote counted.
[19:35] <@Enochf> ~support
[19:35] <@PurpleTentacle> Enochf: Support vote counted.
[19:35] <@jSarek> ~oppose
[19:35] <@PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Oppose vote counted.
[19:35] <Ineedaname> ~oppose
[19:35] <@Xd1358> ~support
[19:35] <@PurpleTentacle> Ineedaname: Oppose vote counted.
[19:35] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[19:35] <@Toprawa> ~support
[19:35] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[19:35] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[19:35] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[19:35] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[19:35] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[19:35] <NaruHina> ~oppose
[19:35] <@PurpleTentacle> NaruHina: Oppose vote counted.
[19:35] <Nayayen> ~oppose
[19:35] <@Darth_Culator> ~support
[19:35] <@PurpleTentacle> Nayayen: Oppose vote counted.
[19:35] <@PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted.
[19:35] <@grunny> ~support
[19:35] <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
[19:35] <@Toprawa> Closing vote in 10 seconds. Vote now if you haven't.
[19:36] <@Toprawa> ~close
[19:36] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[19:36] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[19:36] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 10, Oppose: 5
[19:36] <@Toprawa> the MJ/Culator idea is ratified
[19:36] * Toprawa sets mode: +m
[19:36] <@Toprawa> Item 6.
[19:36] <@Enochf> ...I arrived late. For all I know Item #1 was "Enochf is a jerk."
[19:36] <@Xd1358> shush :P
[19:36] <@Toprawa> AbuseFilter reviews: There are a couple of filters I'd like to bring to the community to review, namely this one and this one. I'll provide better, more detailed reasoning before the meeting, but essentially I believe they represent unilaterally-implemented policy that should be brought to the community for formal approval/rejection. The first one, in particular, will require an addition to...
[19:36] <@Toprawa> ...the protection policy if approved. Master Jon War Room Friday, January 20, 2012, 22:09 UTC
[19:36] <@Toprawa>     OK, full details on this item can be found at User:Master Jonathan/Mofference/6. Advance discussion of the proposed protection policy rewrite will occur at Forum:SH:Protection policy update and rewrite to avoid bogging down the Mofference itself in arguments over minor details. Master Jonathan Council Chambers Friday, January 27, 2012, 00:49 UTC
[19:36] * Toprawa sets mode: +v MasterJonathan
[19:36] <+MasterJonathan> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Special:AbuseFilter/23
[19:36] <+MasterJonathan> If you're not familiar with this one, it essentially applies a form of "super-semi-protection" to pages for which ordinary semi-protection isn't enough. It does this by disallowing any edits from users with fewer than 150 edits (although it counts edits across all Wikias; there's nothing we can do about that) in combination with regular semi-protection (which prevents editing from accounts that are not yet four days old, with no edit cou
[19:36] <+MasterJonathan> The issue with this one is that the protection policy contains no provision allowing for this, and thus the filter is technically in violation of that policy. Furthermore, the protection policy needs a rewrite. So there are two things to be voted on here, in order: ratifying the filter and then approving the rewrite of the protection policy. Let's start with ratifying the filter with a simple yes/no vote.
[19:37] <+MasterJonathan> Floor is open.
[19:37] * Xd1358 sets mode: -vm MasterJonathan
[19:37] <@Enochf> ...so wouldn't this require someone from Wikia to implement it?
[19:37] <@Darth_Culator> The only real problem with this one is that I haven't maintained the list.
[19:37] <MasterJonathan> Enochf: No.
[19:38] <@Enochf> Oh, OK. I don't know how to code levels of protection.
[19:38] <@grunny> it's already in place Enochf
[19:38] <Ineedaname> I don't really see the point of super-protection, other than to invisibly protect articles that haven't been a problem in over 2 years
[19:39] <@Enochf> All I see are block unregistred and admins only
[19:39] <@grunny> maybe that's because they were added two years ago INAN? ;P
[19:39] <@Xd1358> Enochf: done via abusefilter
[19:39] <MasterJonathan> Enochf: it's not through the protect interface, it's done through the AbuseFilter.
[19:39] <@Xd1358> Ineedaname: see what Culator said then :P
[19:40] <@Darth_Culator> MJ, nobody /understands/ what only you seem to think is a problem here.
[19:40] <Exiledjedi> ?
[19:40] <@Toprawa> I don't know why filters need to be ratified to begin with.
[19:40] <Jang|Away> Indeed
[19:40] <@CavalierOne> Per Tope
[19:40] <@jSarek> I don't know that we have that strong of a need for this to make yet another invisible bar to editing.
[19:40] <Cal_Jedi> Per TOpe
[19:40] <@Toprawa> I think that falls under the admin autonomy rules for article protection
[19:40] <Cal_Jedi> *Tope :P
[19:40] <@grunny> per Tope, and it's definitely not in violation of any policy
[19:40] <@Darth_Culator> Protecting pages is administrative prerogative, so this is a waste of time.
[19:40] <@grunny> jS: the idea of it is to add an extra layer, so we can protect frequently vandalised articles without restricting it to sysops only
[19:41] <Ineedaname> Per jSarek
[19:41] <@grunny> the other option was sysop protecting which would have made less people able to edit them
[19:41] <Karohalva> Never add new laws when you don't have to. But that may just be the American in me talking.
[19:41] <@Enochf> ^_^
[19:41] <@jSarek> grunny: I get the idea, I just don't think we have that many articles even these days which require full lockdown; and those that do often involve edit wars with fairly well established users.
[19:42] <@grunny> that's why there aren't many articles in the filter
[19:42] <@Xd1358> If it would be actively maintained, that'd be a plus
[19:42] <NaruHina> It's not like the gold lock is going to keep a new user that plans to be one of the regulars from editing the page eventually.
[19:42] <@Xd1358> Right now there's article that aren't even semiprotected but are still listed in the filter
[19:42] <@Xd1358> there are articles*
[19:42] <@Enochf> That's kinda housekeeping, not a policy issue
[19:43] <NaruHina> And 150 is more discouraging to people (however few) who make 50 BS edits in order to vandalize.
[19:43] <Cal_Jedi> Sounds like admin business to me.
[19:43] <Jang|Away> yup
[19:43] <Exiledjedi> I think I did 150 edits in my first week or so, it doesn't seem like too big of a deal.
[19:43] <@Enochf> Maybe just order an admin review of the abusefilter within 20/30 days?
[19:43] <@Enochf> Content-wise
[19:43] <@Toprawa> Some of the stuff on there is for very specific vandal control that really shouldn't even be exposed to the general userbase.
[19:43] <@grunny> ^sounds good, just remove articles that should have calmed down every <some period>
[19:44] <Jang|Away> I like the 150 rule. Those pages aren't vandalized any longer and it does help
[19:44] <@Darth_Culator> Bang, updated.
[19:44] <@Xd1358> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Special:AbuseFilter/history/23/diff/prev/167
[19:45] <@Enochf> Heh (Abuse Filter log); 16:43 . . Darth Culator (Talk | contribs | block) modified Special:AbuseFilter/23 (details)
[19:45] <@Enochf> Well, that's settled. Lunch?
[19:45] <@Xd1358> I'd be leaning towards "Keep the filter but have someone maintain it."
[19:45] <Jang|Away> Yeah, those articles (Culator eliminated) aren't much of a problem.
[19:45] <Jang|Away> any longer
[19:46] <MasterJonathan> per Xd
[19:46] <@Toprawa> Cross-wikia troll block functions and the like
[19:46] <Karohalva> We should have retaliatory strikes on the websites of trolls and vandals.
[19:46] <@Toprawa> but at any rate, I'm ok with Enochf's idea myself
[19:46] <@Xd1358> Karohalva: Like DoSing every IP that vandalizes?
[19:46] <Jang|Away> I'm all in favor of keeping the filter, but who maintains it is something the admins might need to take care of. :P
[19:46] <@jSarek> Karo: That's what starts cross-site wars. Which just bring more vandalism upon us than if we just do our jobs and clean up messes.
[19:47] <@CavalierOne> So, to clarify: filter good is updated and reviewed on regular basis?
[19:47] <@Xd1358> Yes
[19:47] <Jang|Away> Ok
[19:47] <Exiledjedi> Yes
[19:47] <Jang|Away> Perma keep certain articles :P
[19:47] <@Toprawa> Ok, given the discord from the idea of having to ratify abuse filters, I'm going to open up Enochf's idea for vote as an alternative measure.
[19:47] <@Toprawa> Vote on this: Maybe just order an admin review of the abusefilter within 20/30 days?
[19:47] <@Toprawa> ~open
[19:47] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[19:47] <Ineedaname> ~support
[19:47] <@PurpleTentacle> Ineedaname: Support vote counted.
[19:47] <Jang|Away> heh just saying
[19:47] <Jang|Away> ~support
[19:47] <NaruHina> Vote?
[19:47] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[19:47] <@Xd1358> ~support
[19:47] <@Enochf> Oh, jolly good
[19:47] <@Darth_Culator> ~support
[19:47] <MasterJonathan> ~support
[19:47] <Exiledjedi> ~support
[19:47] <@Xd1358> bah!
[19:47] <Nayayen> ~support
[19:47] <@Enochf> The Big Green Fish knows I ~support
[19:47] <@Enochf> ~support
[19:47] <@Toprawa> Vote is closing in 60 seconds.
[19:47] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[19:47] <NaruHina> ~support
[19:48] <Cal_Jedi> Nothing is registering. :/
[19:48] <Nayayen> Per ^
[19:48] <@Enochf> Did we break a bot?
[19:48] <@Xd1358> 10 votes in favor, 0 against
[19:48] <@PurpleTentacle> Jang|Away: Support vote counted.
[19:48] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[19:48] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[19:48] <@PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted.
[19:48] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[19:48] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[19:48] <@PurpleTentacle> Nayayen: Support vote counted.
[19:48] <@PurpleTentacle> Enochf: Support vote counted.
[19:48] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[19:48] <@PurpleTentacle> NaruHina: Support vote counted.
[19:48] <@Xd1358> there
[19:48] <Cal_Jedi> there we go. :P
[19:48] <Exiledjedi> Yay!
[19:48] <@jSarek> ~support
[19:48] <@Enochf> So much for artificial intelligence
[19:48] <@PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Support vote counted.
[19:48] <@Toprawa> Sorry, I think I'm having terrible lag issues. Apologies if some what I said seemed...off :P
[19:48] <NaruHina> Lazy, waitin til the last minute droid XD
[19:48] <@grunny> ~support
[19:48] <@Toprawa> ~support
[19:48] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[19:49] <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
[19:49] <MasterFred> Well guys, this isn't gonna work for me. No Wifi for muh MacBook. Maybe later. :(
[19:49] <@Toprawa> ~close
[19:49] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[19:49] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[19:49] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 14, Oppose: 0
[19:49] <@Toprawa> Enochf's idea for abuse filter review is ratified.
[19:49] <@Enochf> Enoch's a genius
[19:49] <MasterFred> lol
[19:49] <@jSarek> Sorry, Fred. Take care. :-)
[19:49] * Toprawa sets mode: +m
[19:49] <@Toprawa> Item 9.
[19:50] <@Toprawa> Proper documentation for infoboxes: When faced with an infobox, it's not immediately obvious what goes in some of the fields. Even for veteran users, deciding whether or not a field needs to be used is sometimes unclear with no discernible precedent. Some sort of template documentation to clearly explain what/when/whether something should be in a field would help this. Currently the closest...
[19:50] <@Toprawa> ...thing to this is on {{Individual ship infobox}} but it wouldn't have solved the confusion I've seen, so I'll aim to have an example on my sandbox subpage by the Mofference. —NAYAYEN 02:36, January 22, 2012 (UTC)
[19:50] * Toprawa sets mode: +v Nayayen
[19:50] <@Darth_Culator> Uh.
[19:50] <+Nayayen> You missed item 8 :P
[19:50] <@Darth_Culator> Thought we were on 7.
[19:50] <@CavalierOne> And 7
[19:50] <@Toprawa> Ugh
[19:50] <@Toprawa> Sorry
[19:50] <@Toprawa> Going back :P
[19:50] <@Enochf> 5!
[19:50] <@Xd1358> Item 2 part two
[19:50] <@Enochf> Three, sir
[19:50] <@Xd1358> er, 6
[19:50] <@CavalierOne> 3.14
[19:50] <@Toprawa> Ok, MJ had a second voting item on his thing.
[19:51] <@Toprawa> My apologies.
[19:51] <@jSarek> e^i(pi)+1!
[19:51] <@Enochf> A lot of infobox management this time round
[19:51] <@Toprawa> He wants us to vote on his changes to the Protection policy pages.
[19:51] * Toprawa sets mode: -v Nayayen
[19:51] * Toprawa sets mode: +v MasterJonathan
[19:51] <@Toprawa> MJ, feel free to re-present that item if you choose
[19:51] * Enochf sets mode: +v Nayayen
[19:51] <@Enochf> Just cause
[19:51] <+MasterJonathan> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Master_Jonathan/Mofference/6/WP:PP
[19:51] <+MasterJonathan> Now the rewrite of the protection policy. It's been updated to be more professionally written and reflect current practices. I've also added sections on move- and create-protection, which were completely missing before. Finally, a section on the now-approved super-semi-protection filter has been added, explaining what it is and providing for a special padlock era icon for use on such pages. The {{Excerpt}} template around the su
[19:51] <+MasterJonathan> per-semi-protection section will be removed following approval (its purpose was to set it off as a section that may or may not be included depending on the previous discussion). Does anyone have objections, or can we proceed to a vote?
[19:51] <@Xd1358> :s
[19:51] * Toprawa sets mode: -v Nayayen
[19:52] <+MasterJonathan> Tope: there's one more part to #6 after this.
[19:52] <+MasterJonathan> Floor is open.
[19:52] <@Toprawa> Ok.
[19:52] * Toprawa sets mode: -m
[19:52] <@Enochf> Well, the super-protection thing should be taken out, I guess...?
[19:52] <@Enochf> Other than that, fine
[19:52] <+MasterJonathan> Obviously, someone else will have to create the new lock icons.
[19:53] <@Darth_Culator> Enochf: We just OKed that, but we'll review it in 30 days.
[19:53] <Ineedaname> I don't like the current icon ideas, I'm against having 5 different colours of icons that confuses people, especially when one of them shares a colour with icons which are supposed to represent good things
[19:53] * MasterFred ([REDACTED]@gateway/web/freenode/[REDACTED]) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[19:53] <Jang|Away> I don't mind the current ones, really
[19:54] <Nayayen> Aside from the garish gold background for the super-protection part, it looks fine to me.
[19:54] <@grunny> I'd say the rewrite would need discussion followed by a CT, not a Mofference vote, since I can't speak for others but I haven't read it in detail yet and a full policy page should get more attention
[19:54] <Jang|Away> Current as in the one we have at the moment
[19:54] <@jSarek> Yeah, I think we only need the existing padlocks.
[19:54] <Karohalva> Eyecandy bad.
[19:54] <@Enochf> They're like the American terror alerts. I don't get 'em.
[19:54] <@CavalierOne> I'm generally against introducing more icons in general.
[19:54] <Exiledjedi> The current ones seem fine.
[19:54] <@Xd1358> Per Cav and Grunny
[19:54] <Jang|Away> Per Grunny and Cav
[19:54] <@jSarek> Per grunny. Vote to punt to CT.
[19:54] <+MasterJonathan> Grunny: That's what the SH thread was for. :P
[19:54] <Karohalva> Per Crunny and Gav
[19:55] <Nayayen> If people don't understand what an icon means, they can hover over it and it will say "This page is move-protected" or whatever when they hover over the (proposed to be) green one.
[19:55] <NaruHina> For big changes to actual /policy/ policy, we should go to CT so we can pick it over better.
[19:55] <@grunny> then start a CT, SH threads rarely get enough attention
[19:55] <NaruHina> But I'm in favor of the rewrite.
[19:55] <+MasterJonathan> OK, I'm fine with punting to CT on this.
[19:55] <Cal_Jedi> Agreed.
[19:55] <@Darth_Culator> In general, I like this. I'm not seeing anything I dislike about it at first glance.
[19:56] <Exiledjedi> To the CT!
[19:56] <Ineedaname> When I designed the current padlock icons, I specifically avoided having various colours like at Wikipedia, to make it easier to know what kind of protection is in use without having to check a page to see what each colour means. I'm not opposed to new icons (although it may result in clutter), just the proposed ones
[19:56] <@Toprawa> Ok, this proposal has been ushered to CT by presenter's request. MJ, feel free to put it up at any time.
[19:56] <@Toprawa> Moving on.
[19:56] <@Toprawa> MJ has one more item for this.
[19:56] * Toprawa sets mode: +m
[19:56] <+MasterJonathan> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Special:AbuseFilter/26
[19:56] <+MasterJonathan> If you're not familiar with this one, it serves one function only: preventing unregistered and non-autoconfirmed users from adding external links of any kind. There was no community discussion or vote to do this, rather it was unilaterally created by Culator in November 2009. I disagree with this filter as there are good reasons for anons/new users to post external links. For example, one particular anon often adds informati
[19:56] <+MasterJonathan> on to upcoming comics when Dark Horse releases its online preview, but can't add a link to the preview, resulting in the plain-text reference being removed by someone else when it should be converted into a functioning link and kept under ==External links==. There are other valid reasons to add external links, such as referencing something to a Del Rey or author Facebook post or an Amazon link, and probably other stuff that I ca
[19:56] <+MasterJonathan> n't think of at the moment. I'd like to see this filter shut off, so I'm bringing it up for a vote.
[19:56] <+MasterJonathan> Bottom line is that we should be helping new users contribute, not preventing them from adding valid references and then reverting their edits because of their inability to do so. That creates an elitist environment that hurts our ability to retain new editors.
[19:56] <+MasterJonathan> Floor is open.
[19:56] * grunny sets mode: -m
[19:57] <@Darth_Culator> I forget, can regular users see the abuse log?
[19:57] <+MasterJonathan> Log, yes, Details, no.
[19:57] <@Toprawa> If it's not privatized, I think so
[19:57] <@Toprawa> There's an option to make it private
[19:57] <Nayayen> More often than not, I've seen this create problems rather than stop them. If people want to post links then they just put hxxp: or something, they can get around it.
[19:57] <Exiledjedi> I have seen multiple instances where this filter hurt newer users and IPs.
[19:57] <@Toprawa> per Nayayen
[19:57] <@grunny> Culator: logged-in users can see the log, but they can't see the details
[19:57] <Cal_Jedi> Per Nayayen
[19:58] <@Toprawa> I don't mind the filter so much, but there are easy ways around, as Nayayen says
[19:58] <Jang|Away> If the filter was created for a purpose by an admin, then I see it being fine. Though that hxxp crap gets annoying. :P
[19:58] <Ineedaname> My very first edit was to add info that would now require an external link for sourcing, so I'm against disabling links for new/unregistered users
[19:58] <NaruHina> Per Nayayen. It's annoying.
[19:58] <Menkooroo> Per ExiledJedi.
[19:59] <@grunny> what about leaving anons blocked, but allowing all logged-in users?
[19:59] <Karohalva> Be nice to new users so they don't get PTWD.
[19:59] <@Darth_Culator> There are some "users" like "Modern Apizza" and "Emergencyfoodstorageshopper" who have no contribs because of this filter.
[19:59] <Cal_Jedi> Per Jang.
[19:59] <@Darth_Culator> It does what it was meant to do.
[19:59] <@grunny> ^
[19:59] <@Xd1358> They can see the filter and the log at the moment, but the log entries themselves are hidden
[19:59] <@Xd1358> we could have it just warn
[19:59] <Ineedaname> It also does things it wasn't meant to do
[19:59] <@Xd1358> or possibly a captcha?
[19:59] * Exiledjedi (~Exiledjed@[REDACTED]) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[19:59] <@Xd1358> Is that possible, though
[19:59] <@jSarek> This is a toughie. I can see the arguments, but I also remember deleting links from accounts like Culator describes on a regular basis back in teh day.
[20:00] <@grunny> logged out users should get captchas anyway IIRC
[20:00] <NaruHina> Captcha on anons only if we can do it.
[20:00] <@Enochf> Come back EJ!
[20:00] <Nayayen> Darth_Culator:  I'm getting the sense that the abuse log is full of stuff. Could you screencap it for us non-sysops to see the scale of stuff it blocks, if it is that much more than we think?
[20:00] <@CavalierOne> Could we define the filter to allow links to certain sites like Dark Horse?
[20:00] <+MasterJonathan> I'd be fine with turning it to warn. MediaWiki already forced non-autoconfirmed users to do a captcha.
[20:00] <@CavalierOne> While blocking others?
[20:00] <@Xd1358> there's no way of screencapping more than one entry at a time
[20:00] <@Xd1358> CavalierOne: yes
[20:01] <Menkooroo> A lot more websites than we think are valid.
[20:01] <@CavalierOne> Then we assign a list of "trusted sites" to the filter to allow for good faith edits, eg previews.
[20:01] <Menkooroo> Like here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Clone_Wars_Comic_UK_6.29
[20:01] <Ineedaname> Would it be possible to make it so that adding an external link displays some sort of confirmation box or captcha or something, so that actual users can add links but spambots can't?
[20:01] <Menkooroo> THe preview is on swbooks.co.uk
[20:01] * Exiledjedi (~Exiledjed@[REDACTED]) has joined #wookieepedia
[20:01] <@Enochf> Welcome back, no vote yet
[20:01] <@Xd1358> Ineedaname: that's what mediawiki does for anons
[20:01] <Jang|Away> Titan has information too I think
[20:02] <Jang|Away> Menk
[20:02] <Menkooroo> And the article I linked to was added by an anon
[20:02] <Jang|Away> I like that idea, Cav
[20:02] <@CavalierOne> Well, we include all relevant, official sites to the filter. Links to DH, Titan, etc would go through. Stuff to allnightpartypoppers.com won't.
[20:02] <Jang|Away> heh
[20:02] <Cal_Jedi> Sounds good, Cav.
[20:03] <+MasterJonathan> Cav: I could go for that.
[20:03] <Nayayen> How will we find new links to add to that though?
[20:03] <@Toprawa> Cav's idea is good
[20:03] <Menkooroo> A lot of BTS info comes from random websites, though
[20:03] <Menkooroo> author interviews
[20:03] <@Xd1358> works for me
[20:03] <Ineedaname> Problem with that is that there's a lot of legitimate but random sites
[20:03] <Menkooroo> Per Inan.
[20:03] <Nayayen> I'm sure new sites will appear that would be beneficial to link to, and then per Menk.
[20:03] <@CavalierOne> We would review it like the other abuse filter on a regular basis.
[20:03] <@Xd1358> we could have a link in the warning
[20:03] <Jang|Away> SW.com or anything official/trusted could also be added, of course
[20:03] <@Xd1358> "False positive? Report <link>"
[20:03] <@jSarek> Cav's idea is the best solution amongst a bunch of not great solutions.
[20:03] <Cal_Jedi> Since when did we trust SW.com?!  :P
[20:03] <Nayayen> Okay, Cav's + Xd's ideas sound best of all.
[20:03] <@Xd1358> it's all fanon tbh :P
[20:03] <@Enochf> LO
[20:03] <Jang|Away> hahahaha
[20:03] <@Enochf> *L
[20:04] <Exiledjedi> We definitely need to keep some protection over external links, but I don't see how we can limit links without excluding to many sites.
[20:04] <NaruHina> Before they cut everything the first time.
[20:04] <Menkooroo> Agree with EJ.
[20:04] <+MasterJonathan> Per Cav + Xd.
[20:04] <@Enochf> "It's from a trusted site, sir. It's an old code, but I was about to clear them."
[20:04] <NaruHina> And any lingering trust was cut the second time.
[20:04] <@Toprawa> Ok, opening up voting on Cav + Xd, which is getting strong favor.
[20:04] <@Toprawa> ~open
[20:04] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[20:04] <Nayayen> ~support
[20:04] <@PurpleTentacle> Nayayen: Support vote counted.
[20:04] <@jSarek> ~support
[20:04] <@PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Support vote counted.
[20:04] <@grunny> ~support
[20:04] <Menkooroo> ~oppose
[20:04] <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
[20:04] <@PurpleTentacle> Menkooroo: Oppose vote counted.
[20:04] <@Toprawa> ~support
[20:04] <@Xd1358> ~support
[20:04] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[20:04] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[20:04] <Jang|Away> ~support
[20:04] <@PurpleTentacle> Jang|Away: Support vote counted.
[20:04] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[20:04] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[20:04] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[20:04] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[20:04] <@Darth_Culator> ~support
[20:04] <@Enochf> Abstain
[20:04] <@PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted.
[20:04] <NaruHina> ~support
[20:04] <+MasterJonathan> ~support
[20:04] <@PurpleTentacle> NaruHina: Support vote counted.
[20:04] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[20:04] <Exiledjedi> ~support
[20:04] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[20:04] <Ineedaname> This is a whitelist, right?
[20:05] <@Xd1358> Yes
[20:05] <@jSarek> Ineed: Yes.
[20:05] <Nayayen> Yes, with a link to report a false positive
[20:05] <Ineedaname> ~support
[20:05] <@PurpleTentacle> Ineedaname: Support vote counted.
[20:05] <@Darth_Culator> Yes. A whitelist with a link to report false positive.
[20:05] <@Toprawa> Closing vote in 10 seconds. Vote now if you haven't.
[20:05] <@Toprawa> ~close
[20:05] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[20:05] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[20:05] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 13, Oppose: 1
[20:05] <@Toprawa> Cav + Xd idea ratified for external link abuse filter.
[20:05] * Toprawa sets mode: -v MasterJonathan
[20:06] * Toprawa sets mode: +m
[20:06] * Retrieving #wookieepedia modes...
[20:06] <@Toprawa> Item 7 is my own.
[20:06] * Darth_Culator changes topic to 'Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki: http://wookieepedia.com - THIS IS THE MOFFERENCE'
[20:06] <@Toprawa> I'm going to present an altered, abbreviated version after giving it some thought myself.
[20:06] <@Darth_Culator> Forgot to update that, sorry.
[20:06] <@Enochf> Madness. This is Madness!
[20:07] <@Toprawa> Basically, I propose a 6-month grace period for ratified policies that achieve consensus in CT/Mofference voting. This essentially prevents those who might deliberately abuse the consensus forum procedure by proposing something over and over again in succession, and also provides protection for policy that achieves consensus by giving it a set period of time to exist before someone potentially tri
[20:07] <@Toprawa> es repealing it.
[20:07] <@Toprawa> That's all I have.
[20:07] * Darth_Culator changes topic to 'Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki: http://wookieepedia.com - THIS IS THE MOFFERENCE - http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/WP:M#Agenda - Item #7'
[20:07] * Toprawa sets mode: -m
[20:07] <@Toprawa> Discuss
[20:07] <MasterJonathan> Strong Oppose as policy for the sake of policy. We haven't had a problem with this, so this is unnecessary instruction creep.
[20:08] <Cal_Jedi> I think that this is a good idea.
[20:08] <Nayayen> Has there ever been a case where such a policy would help?
[20:08] <Cal_Jedi> Perhaps not quite six months, but it's a good idea.
[20:08] <Jang|Away> I don't mind that idea tbh
[20:08] <NaruHina> Oppose per MJ
[20:08] <Jang|Away> Yeah
[20:08] <@Enochf> First impression, it's a good idea (because I wouldn't do the thing it's against anyway)
[20:08] <@CavalierOne> Tope, I'd be fine but can we have a caveat that allows an early readdress if new information that affects current policy comes to light?
[20:08] <@jSarek> I hate the term instruction creep ... but withiout having any problems, I can see it interfering when something turns out to be a BAD idea after seeing it in practice.
[20:08] * IFYLOFD (~chatzilla@wookieepedia/administrator/IFYLOFD) has joined #wookieepedia
[20:08] * ChanServ sets mode: +o IFYLOFD
[20:08] * Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +o IFYLOFD
[20:08] <@jSarek> So, oppose.
[20:08] <Exiledjedi> Per Cav
[20:08] <@Xd1358> Hey Floyd
[20:08] <@Toprawa> Cav's idea is good
[20:08] <@Xd1358> item 7 at the moment
[20:08] <@Toprawa> which I think may address jSarek's concern?
[20:08] <@IFYLOFD> Shit, I forgot about the Mofference
[20:08] <@Xd1358> per Cav
[20:08] <NaruHina> Proposing over and over again would be grounds for banning anyway
[20:08] <@IFYLOFD> Well I'll be
[20:09] <@IFYLOFD> I miss anything important?
[20:09] <Jang|Away> Cav: Good idea
[20:09] <Karohalva> Yes. Six items of the Mofference.
[20:09] <NaruHina> Things and stuff
[20:09] <@Toprawa> I came up with 6 months as a measuring stick.
[20:09] <@Xd1358> Only the first six items. No worries, still a lot to go
[20:09] <Cal_Jedi> So far, all good.
[20:09] <@Toprawa> The limit can be reduced
[20:09] <NaruHina> Only one issue was really sort of split.
[20:09] <Jang|Away> It could be changed, yeah. I don't mind
[20:09] <@jSarek> Meh, I think we're better off without this entirely. If we start seeing the kind of abuse we're talking about, then we can worry about this.
[20:09] <Cal_Jedi> I'm thinking something more like 2 months.
[20:09] <@Toprawa> 2 months?
[20:09] <Karohalva> Don't add rules until they're proven needed.
[20:09] <Jang|Away> Sounds reasonable, or one
[20:09] <MasterJonathan> per jSarek
[20:10] <@Enochf> Cav's caveat is kinda subjective...
[20:10] <NaruHina> This is why "Caution: Hot" is on your coffe cup
[20:10] <NaruHina> *coffee
[20:10] <@Toprawa> I'm just going to open up voting for this.
[20:11] <@Toprawa> ~open
[20:11] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[20:11] <MasterJonathan> ~oppose
[20:11] <Jang|Away> ~support
[20:11] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Oppose vote counted.
[20:11] <@PurpleTentacle> Jang|Away: Support vote counted.
[20:11] <Nayayen> ~oppose
[20:11] <@jSarek> ~oppose
[20:11] <@PurpleTentacle> Nayayen: Oppose vote counted.
[20:11] <@PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Oppose vote counted.
[20:11] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[20:11] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[20:11] <NaruHina> ~oppose
[20:11] <@PurpleTentacle> NaruHina: Oppose vote counted.
[20:11] <Karohalva> ~oppose I'm a reactionary conservative
[20:11] <@PurpleTentacle> Karohalva: Oppose vote counted.
[20:11] <Menkooroo> ~oppose
[20:11] <@PurpleTentacle> Menkooroo: Oppose vote counted.
[20:11] <@Darth_Culator> ~support
[20:11] <@PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted.
[20:11] <@Xd1358> ~support
[20:11] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[20:11] <@Toprawa> ~support
[20:11] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[20:11] <Exiledjedi> ~oppose
[20:11] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Oppose vote counted.
[20:11] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[20:11] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[20:11] <@Enochf> Hmm. Either we need a bright line that can't be crossed or no line. I don't like mushing it up with a caveat.
[20:11] <@Enochf> ~support
[20:11] <@PurpleTentacle> Enochf: Support vote counted.
[20:11] <@Enochf> As is
[20:11] <@Toprawa> Closing vote in 10 seconds
[20:12] <@Toprawa> ~close
[20:12] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[20:12] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[20:12] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 7, Oppose: 7
[20:12] <Jang|Away> XD
[20:12] <@Toprawa> No consensus achieved.
[20:12] <Cal_Jedi> ...
[20:12] <@Enochf> Florida!
[20:12] <@Toprawa> Moving on to next topic.
[20:12] <Exiledjedi> An exact tie!
[20:12] * Toprawa sets mode: +m
[20:12] <@Toprawa> Unless Riff or someone else has already submitted it, discuss what goes into our Celebration VI fan table application (assuming we want a table). The deadline is just over two weeks after the Mofference, and I want to make sure we don't miss it like we did in 2010. I probably will not have specifics to propose, but I want to bring it up both for general discussion and as a reminder of the...
[20:12] <@Toprawa> ...deadline as we get closer to it. —MJ— Jedi Council Chambers Saturday, January 21, 2012, 02:55 UTC
[20:12] <@Toprawa>     A few more details of what we need to discuss can be found at User:Master Jonathan/Mofference/8, including a link to the application. —MJ— Council Chambers Thursday, January 26, 2012, 18:17 UTC
[20:12] * Toprawa sets mode: +v MasterJonathan
[20:12] * Darth_Culator changes topic to 'Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki: http://wookieepedia.com - THIS IS THE MOFFERENCE - http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/WP:M#Agenda - Item #8'
[20:12] <@Enochf> We need names for our pro- and anti- factions now
[20:12] <+MasterJonathan> Basically, what's going on here? Has someone already submitted the application? If not, let's discuss. The deadline is February 27. Specific points to be determined:
[20:12] <+MasterJonathan> Who will actually be responsible for sending the application in?
[20:12] <+MasterJonathan> Who will be our primary contact on the application?
[20:12] <+MasterJonathan> Who will be listed as "club leaders"? The application gives space for four; I don't know if we have to list four. Also, the application requests "personal or business references" for the club leaders, so that's something to keep in mind.
[20:12] <+MasterJonathan> The application asks us to "describe what your Celebration table will be used for". Anything other than a laptop showing people the site?
[20:12] <+MasterJonathan> Of course, I'm assuming that we want a table. I think that's a safe assumption. Assuming that assumption is correct, we need to figure out who's going to submit the application and what's going to be on it.
[20:12] <+MasterJonathan> Discuss.
[20:12] <+MasterJonathan> Floor is open.
[20:13] <@Enochf> Ooh, deadline's coming fast...
[20:13] * Darth_Culator sets mode: -m
[20:13] <Cal_Jedi> I had the idea of setting up a computer and accessing the IRC from Celebration VI. That way, even if a Wookieepedia couldn't make it to Celebration VI, they could still in a way through the IRC. We would just need someone who could monitor it and so on.
[20:13] <@Toprawa> I personally suggest this is something that is hashed out in a SH thread, where /everyone/ can take a look at this.
[20:13] <@Toprawa> This could be a long, long, long discussion.
[20:13] <Ineedaname> Enochf: Pro-skub, anti-skub
[20:13] <Jang|Away> I'm not going to go, so I will be staying neutral on the discussion. SH is fine
[20:13] <Exiledjedi> How many of us are actually going to be there?
[20:13] * grunny sets mode: -v MasterJonathan
[20:13] <@jSarek> We may not have time for a CT thread. :-/
[20:13] <Menkooroo> Anti-skub!
[20:13] <@Enochf> You anti-skub scum!
[20:13] <@Xd1358> I happen to own the nick Wookieepedia. We can use that!
[20:13] <Cal_Jedi> Not me. That's how I came up with the IRC idea.
[20:13] <Cal_Jedi> On EJ's question. :P
[20:13] <Menkooroo> We should hash it out now. The deadline is soon.
[20:14] <@jSarek> Exiled: maybe a 25% probability of me getting to go. :-/
[20:14] <@CavalierOne> Aye. I would like to register a personal opinion that any Wook table at C VI should be overseen by at least one admin, preferably more.
[20:14] <@Enochf> Can we take a quick tally who's actually going to C6?
[20:14] <Ineedaname> Toprawa: There's been a SH thread for months now
[20:14] <@Enochf> Not I.
[20:14] <@Toprawa> Right, and nothing has been decided.
[20:14] <@Toprawa> So unless we have specific things to propose and vote on, in the interest of time, I would prefer to usher this one along.
[20:14] <Menkooroo> Another one will yield the same result.
[20:14] <Menkooroo> Talk now,
[20:14] <MasterJonathan> I'm fine with punting to SH, provided people actually discuss actively.
[20:14] <NaruHina> Do we really want people at C6 to see our conversations in IRC?
[20:15] <@Toprawa> I don't think we have to vote on anyone.
[20:15] <Jang|Away> 8)
[20:15] <Karohalva> Not attending C6, I propose only those who are attending resolve it.
[20:15] <@Toprawa> Whoever shows up gets to decide what happens, basically :P
[20:15] <Jang|Away> Unless a certain someone looks at what we're discussing. :P
[20:15] <@Toprawa> per Karohalva
[20:15] <Cal_Jedi> Naru: If we don't just leave it on there the whole time. Set up certain times so we can have conversations with people on there. The idea of showing the person behind the user.
[20:15] <NaruHina> I think I hear the QB just screaming at us.
[20:15] <Menkooroo> We need display boards.
[20:15] <Exiledjedi> I won't be there due to school starting either that week or the next.
[20:15] <NaruHina> *QDB
[20:15] <Menkooroo> With pictures!
[20:15] <@Toprawa> It's not like we have any way of actually ensuring what goes on down in Florida.
[20:15] <@jSarek> I think we just have to work from the assumption we won't be having a table this time around, either. Economy is still too rough for anyone to expect to be able to go.
[20:15] <@Darth_Culator> No time, better things to do with my money, hate Florida.
[20:16] <Jang|Away> My fall semester literally begins a few days when CVI begins. So nah, plus it's Florida.
[20:16] <Karohalva> Isn't one of us /from/ Florida?
[20:16] <NaruHina> You can't get further away from C6 and still be in the Continental US
[20:16] <@Enochf> Wish I had money. Essentially, we should have about 1-4 net-connected computers dedicated to Wookieepedia for access, edits, and have someone aroudn to walk people through registration if they need it
[20:16] <NaruHina> than me. Can't go.
[20:16] <@jSarek> So, basically, NO ONE is going, unless by chance I get to go. :-p
[20:16] <MasterJonathan> I'm going.
[20:16] <@Toprawa> Agreed.
[20:17] <@CavalierOne> Being in the UK kinda stumps my chances :P
[20:17] <Karohalva> Webcam conference? :P
[20:17] <@Enochf> Oy
[20:17] <Exiledjedi> I wish it was a week or so earlier.
[20:17] <@IFYLOFD> Set it up with MJ then
[20:17] <@CavalierOne> I can't get a webcam. They're naughty.
[20:17] <@Toprawa> MJ, you're really the only prominent Wookieepedian going, AFAIK. I think the responsibilities rest with you.
[20:17] <NaruHina> You just want to show off your beard, Kar!
[20:17] * Karohalva never shows his face online.
[20:17] <Cal_Jedi> Per karo.
[20:17] <Menkooroo> MJ, I won't be able to go, but I can bounce ideas with you if you want.
[20:18] <@jSarek> Cav: Who do you think you are, Donna Noble's mom? :-p
[20:18] <@Toprawa> Ok, we're moving on. Recommend that anyone who has specific ideas give them to MJ, who will actually be going.
[20:18] <MasterJonathan> OK, then. I'll poll the SH to see if anyone else is, but no application will be submitted unless I can be sure we'll have enough people to man the table.
[20:18] <@jSarek> MJ: Good plan.
[20:18] <@Enochf> Yeah, I'm Seattle, that's Floridian antipodes
[20:18] * Toprawa sets mode: +m
[20:18] <@Toprawa> Item 9.
[20:18] <@Toprawa> Proper documentation for infoboxes: When faced with an infobox, it's not immediately obvious what goes in some of the fields. Even for veteran users, deciding whether or not a field needs to be used is sometimes unclear with no discernible precedent. Some sort of template documentation to clearly explain what/when/whether something should be in a field would help this. Currently the closest...
[20:18] <@Toprawa> ...thing to this is on {{Individual ship infobox}} but it wouldn't have solved the confusion I've seen, so I'll aim to have an example on my sandbox subpage by the Mofference. —NAYAYEN 02:36, January 22, 2012 (UTC)
[20:19] <@Enochf> Disappointing
[20:19] * Toprawa sets mode: +v Nayayen
[20:19] * Darth_Culator changes topic to 'Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki: http://wookieepedia.com - THIS IS THE MOFFERENCE - http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/WP:M#Agenda - Item #9'
[20:19] <@Toprawa> Nayayen, go.
[20:19] <+Nayayen> Okay, the suggestion of the sort of detail we'd want for this (by way of an example) can be found here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Nayayen/Sandbox#Infobox_documentation_example  You can read that while I finish typing :P
[20:19] <@Enochf> Maybe Lucas, having now started linking to us from the official site, will spring for tickets :p
[20:19] <+Nayayen> This vote is basically to see that we all like the sound of this and think the level of detail is good.
[20:20] <@IFYLOFD> I like it
[20:20] <+Nayayen> I'm intending that it then goes to an SH thread where people discuss/write up the actual documentation.
[20:20] <@IFYLOFD> Leave no room for error
[20:20] <@Enochf> Template documentation...
[20:20] <+Nayayen> I'm done.
[20:20] <@Toprawa> If it's going to SH thread, we don't need to hold a formal vote here for that.
[20:20] <@Toprawa> You're welcome to take it there either wa
[20:20] <@Toprawa> way*
[20:20] <@Toprawa> I presume this is to get a general feeling for this?
[20:20] <@Darth_Culator> Does anyone have any suggestions/objections?
[20:20] * grunny sets mode: -m
[20:20] <Menkooroo> I'd rather vote on it here. I trust Nayayen to write up basic explanations.
[20:21] <Karohalva> At what point does filling fields in infoboxes make having information in short articles redundant?
[20:21] <@CavalierOne> I support it. I know I have to look up other article's use of the fields from time to time to clarify an entry when I'm writing.
[20:21] <@Enochf> Checking Nay's example
[20:21] * grunny sets mode: -v Nayayen
[20:21] <MasterJonathan> Good template documentation is Common Fucking Sense.
[20:21] <@Darth_Culator> I think we can just write up some documentation for each one based on precedent.
[20:21] <NaruHina> I think we should extend this to all templates in principle
[20:21] <@Toprawa> I'm in support of it as well, but again no vote actually needs to be held here.
[20:21] <Ineedaname> Per MasterJonathan
[20:22] <Cal_Jedi> Per TOpe
[20:22] <Exiledjedi> I think that some sort of explanations for each of the fields is needed. Personally I have no clue at all on some.
[20:22] <@Enochf> It's well written, but I just imagine the lack of proper infoboxes comes down to laziness, not lack of clarity
[20:22] <@Xd1358> support
[20:22] <@Toprawa> You're welcome to amend our templates as you will
[20:22] <@jSarek> Per Culator. We don't need to vote on having what those templates should have already.
[20:22] <@Toprawa> You'll get reverted if it's insane :P
[20:22] <@Enochf> Still, it's helpful
[20:22] <NaruHina> We could have a WookieeProject for it XD
[20:22] <@Darth_Culator> WP:CFS?
[20:22] <Menkooroo> During the weapon barn burner, we were all confused about the difference between "model" and "type"
[20:22] <@Enochf> Hmpf, plus I remember one of the SWGB units included speculative crap in the infobox
[20:22] <NaruHina> Well, I mean so long as we're deciding to do anything about clarity. :P
[20:22] <Exiledjedi> Per Menk
[20:23] <@Enochf> In fact it still *does* have speculative crap in the infobox http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bio_cannon
[20:23] <@grunny> {{SOFIXIT}}
[20:23] <Menkooroo> So we all support writing explanations in infobox templates?
[20:23] <Menkooroo> Might as well vote to make it official?
[20:24] <@Toprawa> Again, I don't see the point of having to vote for this. Nothing is stopping anyone from adding it anyway. WP:CFS.
[20:24] <@Toprawa> But if voting will make people happy, fine.
[20:24] <@Toprawa> Vote on Nayayen's idea.
[20:24] <@Toprawa> ~open
[20:24] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[20:24] <@grunny> we can vote, but really should just be a go do it sort of thing
[20:24] <@grunny> ~support
[20:24] <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
[20:24] <@Toprawa> ~support
[20:24] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[20:24] <Menkooroo> ~support
[20:24] <Exiledjedi> ~support
[20:24] <@PurpleTentacle> Menkooroo: Support vote counted.
[20:24] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[20:24] <NaruHina> ~support
[20:24] <@PurpleTentacle> NaruHina: Support vote counted.
[20:24] <MasterJonathan> ~support
[20:24] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[20:24] <Ineedaname> ~support
[20:24] <@PurpleTentacle> Ineedaname: Support vote counted.
[20:24] <Cal_Jedi> ~support per tope
[20:24] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[20:24] <@Enochf> ~support
[20:24] <@PurpleTentacle> Enochf: Support vote counted.
[20:24] <@IFYLOFD> Support
[20:24] <@Darth_Culator> ~meh
[20:24] <@jSarek> ~support
[20:24] <@PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Support vote counted.
[20:24] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[20:24] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[20:24] <@IFYLOFD> ~support
[20:24] <@PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[20:24] <@Xd1358> ~support
[20:25] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[20:25] <@IFYLOFD> I see how this works
[20:25] <@Toprawa> heh
[20:25] <@Toprawa> Closing in 10.
[20:25] <@Toprawa> ~close
[20:25] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[20:25] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[20:25] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 13, Oppose: 0
[20:25] <@Enochf> I support somebody else doing something
[20:25] <Menkooroo> Suck it, oppose!
[20:25] <@Toprawa> Nayayen's idea is ratified. Further discussion to be held in SH.
[20:25] * Toprawa sets mode: +m
[20:25] <@Darth_Culator> I support photosynthesis and the water cycle.
[20:25] <@Toprawa> Item 10.
[20:26] <@Toprawa> A substitute for quote galleries: Quote galleries are currently being trash compacted, but we needn't necessarily kill {{Wq}} along with them. {{Wq}}, when added to a character's page, currently takes the reader to that character's quote gallery, but I'd like to propose modifying it so that it directs to that character's archived QOTD quotes instead. For example, adding {{Wq}} to Ackbar...
[20:26] <@Toprawa> ...would direct the reader here. Menkooroo 04:30, January 23, 2012 (UTC)
[20:26] * Darth_Culator changes topic to 'Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki: http://wookieepedia.com - THIS IS THE MOFFERENCE - http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/WP:M#Agenda - Item #10'
[20:26] * Toprawa sets mode: +v Menkooroo
[20:26] <+Menkooroo> Not much to add. It's pretty basic. I propose including it even if all available quotes are already in the article, as it's a good foundation for the future if and when new quotes are added to QOTD. We use {{Imagecat}} when all the images are in the article, anyway. ... At least I do.
[20:26] <@Toprawa> Menkooroo has the floor.
[20:26] <+Menkooroo> That's all.
[20:26] * Toprawa sets mode: -m
[20:26] <@Enochf> Eh
[20:26] <@Enochf> Hmm
[20:26] <NaruHina> Full support
[20:26] <Exiledjedi> Sounds good to me.
[20:26] <@Darth_Culator> Works for me.
[20:26] <@IFYLOFD> Like it
[20:26] <Nayayen> The QOTD archive is painful to load and navigate though.
[20:26] <@Enochf> I'd support but only for the characters who have been moved to their own separate QOTD archive page
[20:26] <NaruHina> It's pinping the QOTD.
[20:27] <+Menkooroo> We still link to available images even though image galleries are long gone, so I thought this was a good compromise with quote galleries gone.
[20:27] <@Enochf> Like Nya said
[20:27] <@Enochf> The main archive takes too long to load
[20:27] <@IFYLOFD> Since I have succeeded Enochf as Shepherd of the QOTD
[20:27] <@Enochf> But the mini-pages would be ok
[20:27] <Cal_Jedi> Per Enochf
[20:27] <Jang|Away> Wq is long gone, move along. :P
[20:27] <@Enochf> That basically includes everybody with 21+ quotes
[20:27] <MasterJonathan> I don't care either way
[20:27] <Karohalva> Good riddance
[20:27] <@IFYLOFD> Although he gets to do the thankless dirty work still
[20:27] <@Toprawa> I say adopt Enochf's idea. He runs the thing anyway. :P
[20:27] <@Enochf> Han, Leia, 3PO, Palpatine, down to Qui-Gon and Jacen
[20:27] <+Menkooroo> I like Enochf's idea. Could we drop it from 21 to something smaller?
[20:27] <+Menkooroo> Say 10?
[20:27] <Karohalva> 42
[20:27] <@Enochf> I'd be up for that, too. It'd help the main archive load faster.
[20:28] <+Menkooroo> So, addendum to the proposal:
[20:28] <MasterJonathan> Yeah, 10 sounds good.
[20:28] <+Menkooroo> Create QOTD subpages for at least ten quotes.
[20:28] <@IFYLOFD> I'm down with it
[20:28] <@Enochf> 10+. Check. I can whip that up tonight.
[20:28] <Exiledjedi> 10
[20:28] <@Toprawa> Ok, voting on this new amended proposal.
[20:28] <@Toprawa> ~open
[20:28] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[20:28] <Nayayen> ~support
[20:28] <@grunny> ~support
[20:28] <@PurpleTentacle> Nayayen: Support vote counted.
[20:28] <+Menkooroo> ~support
[20:28] <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
[20:28] <@PurpleTentacle> Menkooroo: Support vote counted.
[20:28] <@IFYLOFD> ~support
[20:28] <@PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[20:28] <@Toprawa> ~support
[20:28] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[20:28] <Ineedaname> ~support
[20:28] <@PurpleTentacle> Ineedaname: Support vote counted.
[20:28] <Karohalva> ~support
[20:28] <@PurpleTentacle> Karohalva: Support vote counted.
[20:28] <@Enochf> *sigh* I'll miss those old quote galleries
[20:28] <Exiledjedi> ~support
[20:28] <NaruHina> ~support
[20:28] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[20:28] <@PurpleTentacle> NaruHina: Support vote counted.
[20:28] <@Enochf> ~support
[20:28] <@PurpleTentacle> Enochf: Support vote counted.
[20:28] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[20:28] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[20:28] <MasterJonathan> ~support
[20:28] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[20:28] <@Darth_Culator> ~support
[20:28] <@PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted.
[20:28] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[20:28] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[20:28] <@IFYLOFD> Dammit, didn't get there first
[20:28] <Jang|Away> No one maintained them :P
[20:28] <@jSarek> ~support
[20:28] <@PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Support vote counted.
[20:28] <Jang|Away> only nubs
[20:28] <@Xd1358> ~support
[20:28] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[20:28] <@IFYLOFD> Quote galleries suck anyway
[20:29] <@Toprawa> Closing vote in 10.
[20:29] <Jang|Away> heh yeah
[20:29] <@Enochf> Mind you, some of the quote galleries included dialogues so long, they skirted the notion of fair use
[20:29] <@Toprawa> ~close
[20:29] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[20:29] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[20:29] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 16, Oppose: 0
[20:29] <Nayayen> IFYLOFD: Trick is to type your vote out beforehand :P
[20:29] <@Toprawa> Menkooroo's amended proposal ratified.
[20:29] * Toprawa sets mode: +m
[20:29] <@Toprawa> Enabling Gadgets Extension: I'd like to propose we enable the Gadgets extension here. The Gadgets extension lets us create user CSS and JavaScript tools that users can turn on/off in their preferences in a tab that is added by the extension. This means we could add FastDelete as a gadget and let admins turn it on/off in their preferences, or add the purge button, rather than users having to...
[20:29] <@Toprawa> ...work out how to add it to their JS/CSS pages. You can see gadgets in action on Wikipedia and try them out if you have an account, or here. Cheers, grunny@wookieepedia:~$ 02:31, January 24, 2012 (UTC)
[20:29] * Darth_Culator changes topic to 'Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki: http://wookieepedia.com - THIS IS THE MOFFERENCE - http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/WP:M#Agenda - Item #11'
[20:29] <@Toprawa> Grunny, go.
[20:29] <@Enochf> Good thing I stumbled into this thing
[20:29] <@grunny> basically what the comment says
[20:29] <@Enochf> Otherwise I'd walk in tomorrow going "What are they doing to my archive?"
[20:30] * grunny sets mode: -mv Menkooroo
[20:30] <MasterJonathan> Strong Support.
[20:30] <@grunny> anyone have any questions about how gadgets work, etc.?
[20:30] <NaruHina> Never made a CSS page.
[20:30] <Exiledjedi> Yeah!
[20:30] <@Darth_Culator> Finally a new feature I actually WANT.
[20:30] * Karohalva has no idea what gadgets are nor has any intention to use them so he abstains.
[20:30] <@Enochf> Hehe
[20:30] <Nayayen> Any issues I had with this were clarified in IRC before this, support with gusto.
[20:30] <@Enochf> I'll let you youngins with your iDrops figure this one out
[20:31] <@jSarek> grunny: Lots of questions. So I won't burden the Morfference with them. ;-)
[20:31] <@IFYLOFD> yayayayayayayay
[20:31] <Jang|Away> heh
[20:31] <NaruHina> I'll just abstain too, seeing as I can't really make an informedd decision and it won''t affect me.
[20:31] <@grunny> feel free to PM me about them, jSarek
[20:31] <Ineedaname> What will happen if you have a custom CSS/JS page and you enable a gadget?
[20:31] <@grunny> the Gadget just gets loaded in addition
[20:31] <Cal_Jedi> Tried them out a little bit. Seemed pretty good. And they are optional, correct?
[20:31] <@Enochf> Is Dr. Claw involved somehow?
[20:31] <@grunny> so it's equivalent to importing the script to your JS page
[20:31] <Exiledjedi> How do you add a gadget?
[20:32] <@grunny> well, admins will add the gadgets so that they appear in everyone's preferences under the Gadgets tab
[20:32] <@jSarek> Bottom line is, these are optional tools that expand options without mandating them, and you think they would be generally useful?
[20:32] <@Xd1358> Basically, instead of users having to copy/import scripts, they'd tick a box
[20:32] <@grunny> then users can enable/disable through their preferences
[20:32] <@grunny> rather than importing to their JS
[20:32] <@Darth_Culator> No, the real bottom line is that it has nothing to do with advertising or social networking and doesn't allow people to break our policies with the press of a button.
[20:32] <Menkooroo> More people would see yellow redirects!
[20:32] <@grunny> or CSS pages
[20:32] <Exiledjedi> Sounds good to me.
[20:32] <@Enochf> OK, 10+ quotes, that means there'll be 50 quote links (so far)
[20:32] <@Darth_Culator> Therefore we can turn it on.
[20:32] <@Xd1358> Menkooroo: if they chose to
[20:33] <Menkooroo> We will FORCE THEM
[20:33] <@grunny> heh
[20:33] <@Enochf> I didn't mean to turn you on
[20:33] <@Toprawa> Assuming everyone's concerns are more or less addressed, opening vote.
[20:33] <@Toprawa> ~open
[20:33] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[20:33] <MasterJonathan> ~support
[20:33] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[20:33] <Nayayen> ~support
[20:33] <@PurpleTentacle> Nayayen: Support vote counted.
[20:33] <@Enochf> abstain
[20:33] <@Darth_Culator> ~support
[20:33] <@PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted.
[20:33] <@Xd1358> ~support
[20:33] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[20:33] <@Toprawa> ~support
[20:33] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[20:33] <Exiledjedi> ~support
[20:33] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[20:33] <Ineedaname> ~support
[20:33] <@PurpleTentacle> Ineedaname: Support vote counted.
[20:33] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[20:33] <@grunny> ~support
[20:33] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[20:33] <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
[20:33] <@GreenTentacle> ~support
[20:33] <@PurpleTentacle> GreenTentacle: Support vote counted.
[20:33] <@IFYLOFD> ~support
[20:33] <@PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[20:33] <@jSarek> ~support
[20:33] <@PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Support vote counted.
[20:33] <Menkooroo> ~support
[20:33] <@PurpleTentacle> Menkooroo: Support vote counted.
[20:33] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[20:33] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[20:33] <@Toprawa> Closing vote in 10 seconds.
[20:34] <NaruHina> I like my links and redirects like I like my peas and mashed potatoes.
[20:34] <@Toprawa> ~close
[20:34] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[20:34] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[20:34] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 14, Oppose: 0
[20:34] <@Toprawa> Gadgets ratified.
[20:34] * Toprawa sets mode: +m
[20:34] <@Toprawa> Item 12.
[20:34] <@Enochf> Did we just create Skynet?
[20:34] * Darth_Culator changes topic to 'Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki: http://wookieepedia.com - THIS IS THE MOFFERENCE - http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/WP:M#Agenda - Item #12'
[20:34] <@Toprawa> Proper use of periods in ref notes: Many status articles that I've completed, reviewed, and read only contain a period in the ref note(s) if the ref note is a complete sentence. I have always done it this way, and I brought up this point on this nom. However, that nom, along with others, contained a period after every ref note. As stated above on other Mofference notes, I think conformity...
[20:34] <@Toprawa> ...should be used in this instance. Which way should it be done?—Cal JediInfinite Empire.svg (Personal Comm Channel) 02:03, January 26, 2012 (UTC)
[20:34] * Toprawa sets mode: +v Cal_Jedi
[20:34] <@Toprawa> Cal, you're on
[20:34] <@IFYLOFD> Enochf: We can only hope
[20:34] <+Cal_Jedi> We already use this with pictures in articles. If it is a full sentence in the image context, then it gets a period. If not, then there is none. The same should be done with ref notes, in my opinion. Leaving periods in non-full sentences does not seem proper. Many articles already do this. They only add periods in ref notes if the sentence is a full sentence.
[20:34] <@IFYLOFD> I for one welcome our new robot overlords
[20:35] <+Cal_Jedi> In my opinion, this is a needed addition to conformity.
[20:35] <+Cal_Jedi> That's pretty much all I've got to start.
[20:35] * Toprawa sets mode: -m
[20:35] <@Enochf> I dislike period in ref nots
[20:35] <Menkooroo> Epic meh. Periods are about the most harmless things in the world.
[20:35] * Toprawa sets mode: -v Cal_Jedi
[20:35] <Nayayen> This should be common sense. It SHOULD be, but it seems to elude people.
[20:35] <@Toprawa> There's nothing wrong with standardization.
[20:35] <Exiledjedi> I find improper grammar annoying.
[20:35] <Cal_Jedi> Per Tope.
[20:35] <@Darth_Culator> That's what they want you to think, Menk.
[20:35] <@Toprawa> People may decry this as unimportant, but it does get annoying to some people.
[20:35] <Nayayen> Putting a period after JUST the linked source looks stupid, so support.
[20:35] <Menkooroo> per MJ here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Master_Jonathan/Mofference#12._Periods_after_references.
[20:35] <NaruHina> I dislike perids in ref notes, but I don't think EVERYTHING has to be standardized.
[20:36] <Cal_Jedi> We should be professional in our work, even as small as periods.
[20:36] <Jang|Away> i use gud grammer
[20:36] <@Enochf> Support. Little things like this bug me.
[20:36] <@jSarek> But bad spellink.
[20:36] <MasterJonathan> Menk: you beat me on the copy and paste. :P
[20:36] <@Enochf> Like constantly misspelling "millennium"
[20:36] <@Darth_Culator> We standardized captions, let's standardize refs.
[20:36] <Menkooroo> heh heh
[20:36] <@Toprawa> per Culator
[20:36] <@Toprawa> This is pretty straightforward, I think. So opening up vote.
[20:37] <Menkooroo> Wait
[20:37] <@Toprawa> ~open
[20:37] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[20:37] <Menkooroo> Nothing has been proposd
[20:37] <@Toprawa> ~close
[20:37] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[20:37] <@Enochf> Eh?
[20:37] <Menkooroo> It just says "Let's choose one way,"
[20:37] <Menkooroo> But which way?
[20:37] <Cal_Jedi> It's proposed to only use periods if it is a full sentence in a ref.
[20:37] <Menkooroo> ah, OK
[20:37] <@Toprawa> ok, reopening :P
[20:37] <@Toprawa> Vote on that
[20:37] <@Toprawa> ~open
[20:37] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[20:37] <Menkooroo> ~oppose
[20:37] <@PurpleTentacle> Menkooroo: Oppose vote counted.
[20:37] <Nayayen> I think it is a case of support or oppose this:
[20:37] <Nayayen> If it is a full sentence in the image context, then it gets a period. If not, then there is none. The same should be done with ref notes, in my opinion. Leaving periods in non-full sentences does not seem proper. Many articles already do this. They only add periods in ref notes if the sentence is a full sentence.
[20:37] <@Enochf> Yeah, like Cal said. I got it. And I'm an idiot.
[20:37] <@Toprawa> ~support
[20:37] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[20:37] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[20:37] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[20:37] <@GreenTentacle> ~support
[20:37] <@PurpleTentacle> GreenTentacle: Support vote counted.
[20:37] <@Enochf> ~support
[20:37] <@PurpleTentacle> Enochf: Support vote counted.
[20:37] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[20:37] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[20:37] <@Darth_Culator> ~support
[20:37] <@PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted.
[20:37] <Exiledjedi> ~support
[20:37] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[20:37] <@Xd1358> ~support
[20:37] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[20:37] <@IFYLOFD> ~support
[20:37] <@PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[20:37] <MasterJonathan> ~meh
[20:37] <NaruHina> ~support
[20:37] <@PurpleTentacle> NaruHina: Support vote counted.
[20:37] <@jSarek> ~support
[20:37] <@PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Support vote counted.
[20:38] <Nayayen> ~support lagging like fuck for me
[20:38] <@PurpleTentacle> Nayayen: Support vote counted.
[20:38] <@Toprawa> Closing vote in 10.
[20:38] <@grunny> ~support
[20:38] <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
[20:38] <NaruHina> Still say wee should stop standarizing things, but this at least has sense behind it.
[20:38] <@Toprawa> ~close
[20:38] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[20:38] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[20:38] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 13, Oppose: 1
[20:38] <NaruHina> *stardarizing everything
[20:38] <@Toprawa> Ref note punctuation standardized.
[20:38] * Toprawa sets mode: +m
[20:38] * Darth_Culator changes topic to 'Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki: http://wookieepedia.com - THIS IS THE MOFFERENCE - http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/WP:M#Agenda - Item #13'
[20:39] <@Toprawa> Item 13 it is.
[20:39] <@Toprawa> Making Wookieepedia:Copyrights full policy. I find it a bit ridiculous that after nearly seven years this is still "proposed". It's past time to approve it. —MJ— Training Room Thursday, January 26, 2012, 22:19 UTC
[20:39] * Toprawa sets mode: +v MasterJonathan
[20:39] <+MasterJonathan> Exactly what the agenda item says. Nothing special here.
[20:39] <+MasterJonathan> Floor is open.
[20:39] * Toprawa sets mode: -m
[20:39] <@Enochf> Um @_@
[20:39] <Exiledjedi> It's not policy?
[20:39] <+MasterJonathan> Nope.
[20:39] <Ineedaname> I'm going to blindly vote yes for this. There's not anything insidious hidden in it, right?
[20:40] <NaruHina> It should be full policy. We treat it as such.
[20:40] <@Enochf> Reading it
[20:40] <@Enochf> Well, skimming
[20:40] <@Darth_Culator> Um.... No.
[20:40] * Toprawa sets mode: -v MasterJonathan
[20:40] <@Enochf> I iz no lawyer
[20:40] * @Darth_Culator goes to put a hidden div around the part about souls.
[20:40] <Exiledjedi> Hey...
[20:41] <@IFYLOFD> i c wut u did thar
[20:41] <@jSarek> It hasn't been touched in a year and a half. So nothing insidious has been slipped in recently, if that's what you're worried about.
[20:41] <@Enochf> I like the clause about "if you want to use content from Wookieepedia." Couldn't they just "fair use" their wey out of it, like we do with official content?
[20:41] <Karohalva> So far as I can tell, it pretty much says Lucas owns everything here but we don't really care so we write articles and upload pictures anyway.
[20:41] <@jSarek> (Culator's upcoming soul edit notwithstanding)
[20:41] <@Enochf> But, yeah, it looks legit and I'd pass it
[20:41] <@Toprawa> Ok, again, pretty straightforward option
[20:41] <@Toprawa> ~open
[20:41] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[20:41] <Nayayen> ~support
[20:41] <@PurpleTentacle> Nayayen: Support vote counted.
[20:42] <@Darth_Culator> ~support
[20:42] <@PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted.
[20:42] <@Toprawa> ~support
[20:42] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[20:42] <Karohalva> ~support
[20:42] <@PurpleTentacle> Karohalva: Support vote counted.
[20:42] <@jSarek> Enochf: They can use us verbatim. We have to paraphrase and cite like muthas. ;-)
[20:42] <MasterJonathan> ~support
[20:42] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[20:42] <Ineedaname> ~support
[20:42] <@PurpleTentacle> Ineedaname: Support vote counted.
[20:42] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[20:42] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[20:42] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[20:42] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[20:42] <@jSarek> ~support
[20:42] <@PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Support vote counted.
[20:42] <Exiledjedi> ~support
[20:42] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[20:42] <NaruHina> Well, we are endorsed now. Sort-of
[20:42] <@Enochf> ~support
[20:42] <@PurpleTentacle> Enochf: Support vote counted.
[20:42] <NaruHina> ~support
[20:42] <@PurpleTentacle> NaruHina: Support vote counted.
[20:42] <@Toprawa> CLosing in 10
[20:42] <@Enochf> Oh, and we just sold our houses to the government for a box of shiny beads
[20:42] <@Toprawa> ~close
[20:42] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[20:42] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[20:42] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 12, Oppose: 0
[20:42] <@Toprawa> Copyright page is now policy.
[20:42] * Toprawa sets mode: +m
[20:43] * Darth_Culator changes topic to 'Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki: http://wookieepedia.com - THIS IS THE MOFFERENCE - http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/WP:M#Agenda - Item #14'
[20:43] * Darth_Culator sets mode: -m
[20:43] <@Toprawa> Item 14.
[20:43] <@Darth_Culator> Oops.
[20:43] <@Toprawa> Amendment to WP:SIG regarding loophole in current policy JangFett (Talk) 03:00, January 27, 2012 (UTC)
[20:43] <@Enochf> The image guidelines section is reassuring
[20:43] * Darth_Culator sets mode: +m
[20:43] * Toprawa sets mode: +v Jang|Away
[20:43] <@Darth_Culator> Jang!
[20:43] <@Toprawa> Jang, you're on
[20:43] <+Jang|Away> WP:SIG -- Loopholing as been an issue for sometime. There should be some enforcement over what a signature should look like. Even though we do have a set of rules, there are current drawbacks that allows users to bend them without actually breaking a rule. Recently it has come to my attention that I've seen people use multiple "sets" of signatures that change after inserting a signature on a...
[20:43] <+Jang|Away> ...page.Users should only be allowed to have have two colors with the date black, as said in WP:SIG, but /only/ two colors for a user's only one sig.
[20:43] <+Jang|Away> In other words, you cannot have changing colored signatures -- you must have only the two set colors, as decribed in WP:SIG. You /may not/ have scripts to automatically change your sig color either. This would certainly dismiss any attempt to find a loophole with the colors. Not only does it get annoying to see random colored signautures, but it can get confusing.
[20:44] <+Jang|Away> Two colors, date black people. That is all. Change it yourself too :P
[20:44] * Toprawa sets mode: -m
[20:44] <Ineedaname> Is this about MasterJonathan's constantly changing sig?
[20:44] <Menkooroo> hahahahahaha
[20:44] <@Toprawa> I think he's referring to the randomization code thing in some people's sigs.
[20:44] <Karohalva> I'm more attracted to white girls myself, but whatever floats your boat, Jang.
[20:44] <+Jang|Away> Indeed
[20:44] <Exiledjedi> That's what it sounds like...
[20:44] <Menkooroo> azns
[20:44] <+Jang|Away> It's for everyone, not for 1 person
[20:44] <@Xd1358> date black people?
[20:44] <@Enochf> As a guy who has to read long lists of these sigs in the QOTD section, I support
[20:44] <@Xd1358> :P
[20:44] <Cal_Jedi> On topic.... :P
[20:44] <@Toprawa> I support it too.
[20:44] <@IFYLOFD> Wait, date black people?
[20:44] <@Toprawa> It's kind of annoying, to be honest
[20:45] <+Jang|Away> Time code black
[20:45] <NaruHina> This isn't 1946, people.
[20:45] <+Jang|Away> As said in WP:SIG
[20:45] <@IFYLOFD> Well, I've always had a thing for black chicks
[20:45] <Cal_Jedi> Per Tope.
[20:45] <+Jang|Away> Naru, enough
[20:45] <Exiledjedi> Huh?
[20:45] <@IFYLOFD> I APPROVE
[20:45] <@grunny> well the time code is whatever the color of the wiki's default text is
[20:45] <@Enochf> When did this discussion turn into a Spike Lee joint?
[20:45] <@grunny> which isn't quite black, but is close
[20:45] <@Toprawa> Let's stay on topic, please.
[20:45] <@Xd1358> Stay on topic, folks
[20:45] <@IFYLOFD> Alright, moving along
[20:45] <@IFYLOFD> I support it
[20:45] <@Darth_Culator> OK, so the gist is no color-change scripting, black time and date code.
[20:45] <NaruHina> He started the topic, not us. :P Support.
[20:46] <Karohalva> What is the obsession with sigs anyway? Just put your name. Monochrome like the world was until they invented Technicolor.
[20:46] <@jSarek> How much extra code does this script add to pages?
[20:46] <+Jang|Away> Indeed. A user can change his or her color manually, not script wise. Two color stays the same
[20:46] <@Enochf> What about the consequences?
[20:46] <@Xd1358> jSarek: not really anything
[20:46] <MasterJonathan> jSarek: none because it's all substituted
[20:46] <@Enochf> After a warning
[20:46] <@Xd1358> but the sig is different each time
[20:46] <+Jang|Away> Yes, but it's changing via a script
[20:46] <@Enochf> If they ignore warnings, just, what, automatically revert their sig to standard?
[20:46] <Ineedaname> How many people are abusing this loophole?
[20:47] <@jSarek> And all it's doing is make colors different each time?
[20:47] <@jSarek> *making
[20:47] <NaruHina> Can admins do that? revert sigs.
[20:47] <Exiledjedi> A can only think of a few off hand.
[20:47] <@Toprawa> I've given warnings to people who violate WP:SIG egregiously. Never seen someone refuse to change their sig yet.
[20:47] <@Toprawa> I suppose we would just change it for them
[20:47] <@Darth_Culator> Revert sigs? No. We'd just have to block them for violating policy.
[20:47] <+Jang|Away> Let's just say, this is for everyone, and not for a single person. Even though they're some that do use this, he or she will not be named here.
[20:47] <NaruHina> A person's sig is like a face to me. If it changes all the time, I have no idea who I'm talking to.
[20:47] <@Enochf> Heh. The Iron Hand of Culator.
[20:48] <Nayayen> Per Naru
[20:48] <@Darth_Culator> It's annoying. And they KNOW it's annoying.
[20:48] <@Toprawa> Ok, I think everyone is clear on this.
[20:48] <@Toprawa> Opening vote on Culator's comment: OK, so the gist is no color-change scripting, black time and date code.
[20:48] <@Toprawa> ~open
[20:48] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[20:48] <@Darth_Culator> ~support
[20:48] <@PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted.
[20:48] <+Jang|Away> ~support
[20:48] <@PurpleTentacle> Jang|Away: Support vote counted.
[20:48] <Menkooroo> ~support
[20:48] <@PurpleTentacle> Menkooroo: Support vote counted.
[20:48] <@Enochf> ~support (in flashing rainbow lights)
[20:48] <@Toprawa> ~support
[20:48] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[20:48] <@PurpleTentacle> Enochf: Support vote counted.
[20:48] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[20:48] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[20:49] <NaruHina> ~support
[20:49] <@PurpleTentacle> NaruHina: Support vote counted.
[20:49] <@IFYLOFD> ~support
[20:49] <@PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[20:49] <Nayayen> ~support
[20:49] <@PurpleTentacle> Nayayen: Support vote counted.
[20:49] <@grunny> ~support
[20:49] <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
[20:49] <Exiledjedi> ~support
[20:49] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[20:49] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[20:49] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[20:49] * CommanderShepard (~N7@wikia/trekweb.N7) has joined #wookieepedia
[20:49] <Karohalva> ~oppose Abolish all colored sigs.
[20:49] <@PurpleTentacle> Karohalva: Oppose vote counted.
[20:49] <@Toprawa> Closing vote in 10 seconds.
[20:49] <MasterJonathan> ~sigh
[20:49] * Xd1358 sets mode: +q CommanderShepard!*@*
[20:49] <@Xd1358> um
[20:49] <@Toprawa> ~close
[20:49] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[20:49] <@Xd1358> ~support
[20:49] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: There is no open vote on this channel.
[20:49] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[20:49] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 12, Oppose: 1
[20:49] <@jSarek> Abstain. If it's not adding substed code, it just doesn't bother me that much.
[20:49] <@Xd1358> hold on
[20:49] <@Toprawa> Sorry, ecks and jSarek's comments included.
[20:50] <@Toprawa> So 13-1, for the record.
[20:50] <@Toprawa> Amendment to WP:SIG ratified.
[20:50] <@Xd1358> wait
[20:50] <@Toprawa> Yes?
[20:50] <@Enochf> What was the deal with Xd?
[20:50] <@Xd1358> does this only apply for colors
[20:50] <@Xd1358> or fonts too?
[20:50] <@Xd1358> and stuff like that
[20:50] <@Toprawa> "so the gist is no color-change scripting, black time and date code."
[20:50] <@Enochf> Colors
[20:51] <@Xd1358> yeah, that's what I noticed
[20:51] <@Toprawa> We can hold separate votes to extend this to fonts and anything else at this time.
[20:51] <@Enochf> We'll blast the control to that bridge when we come to it
[20:51] <@grunny> I think it could be a more general, no randomisation of sigs or something
[20:51] <+Jang|Away> Sure, Tope.
[20:51] <@Xd1358> Per grunny
[20:51] <Nayayen> Just change WP:SIG to say "two links, two different colours, that's it" :P
[20:51] <@Toprawa> I think grunny's idea.
[20:51] <@Toprawa> No randomization scripts.
[20:51] <@Darth_Culator> No font changes.
[20:51] <+Jang|Away> Except, the loopholing will commence, Nayayen.
[20:51] <Cal_Jedi> Per Gruns
[20:51] <+Jang|Away> :P
[20:52] <Exiledjedi> I'm confused...
[20:52] <@Toprawa> Ok, secondary vote: Extend this also to no randomization for fonts, in addition to the just-ratified colors.
[20:52] <@Toprawa> ~open
[20:52] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[20:52] <@Xd1358> ~support
[20:52] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[20:52] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[20:52] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[20:52] <@Enochf> Eh
[20:52] <@Darth_Culator> ~support
[20:52] <@PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted.
[20:52] <+Jang|Away> ~support
[20:52] <@IFYLOFD> ~support
[20:52] <@PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[20:52] <@PurpleTentacle> Jang|Away: Support vote counted.
[20:52] <Nayayen> ~support
[20:52] <@PurpleTentacle> Nayayen: Support vote counted.
[20:52] <@Toprawa> ~support
[20:52] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[20:52] <Exiledjedi> ~support
[20:52] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[20:52] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[20:52] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[20:52] <@grunny> ~support
[20:52] <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
[20:52] <@Enochf> Abstain
[20:52] <NaruHina> ~support
[20:52] <@PurpleTentacle> NaruHina: Support vote counted.
[20:52] <@jSarek> ~support. If we're going to do this, let's do it right.
[20:52] <@Enochf> Haven't had much trouble with font control, from my POV
[20:53] <@Toprawa> Closing vote in 10 seconds.
[20:53] <@jSarek> ~support
[20:53] <@PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Support vote counted.
[20:53] <MasterJonathan> ~sigh
[20:53] * Ineedaname thinks "~meh" should tally as an abstain vote
[20:53] <@Toprawa> ~close
[20:53] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[20:53] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[20:53] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 12, Oppose: 0
[20:53] <@jSarek> Note: Do not add a period to your support vote if you want the tentacle to see it.
[20:53] <@Toprawa> WP:SIG ratified for colors and fonts
[20:53] <@Enochf> See? Periods suck!
[20:53] <Cal_Jedi> XD
[20:53] * Toprawa sets mode: +m
[20:53] * grunny sets mode: -v Jang|Away
[20:53] <@Toprawa> Item 15.
[20:53] * Darth_Culator changes topic to 'Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki: http://wookieepedia.com - THIS IS THE MOFFERENCE - http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/WP:M#Agenda - Item #15'
[20:53] <@Toprawa> Adding more CheckUsers I'd like to propose giving CheckUser to Green Tentacle and Toprawa. This would give us coverage with one person in Europe, one in America and me in Australia (as many vandals hit while I'm asleep!), and GT and Tope are generally available every day on the wiki and in IRC. This would also give oversight to the CheckUser tool, in that there would now be other users who...
[20:53] <@Toprawa> ...can see the checks that have been made so there's no abuse of the tool. :) Wikia is OK with granting both of these users the right providing there is community consensus of course. grunny@wookieepedia:~$ 03:49, January 27, 2012 (UTC)
[20:53] <@Toprawa> Grunny
[20:54] * Corellian_Premie ([REDACTED]@gateway/web/qwebirc/irc.wikia.com/[REDACTED]) has joined #wookieepedia
[20:54] <@grunny> once again, what the comment says
[20:54] <@Xd1358> hey corellian
[20:54] * Toprawa sets mode: -m
[20:54] <Menkooroo> Just to confirm: Checkuser isn't only for bureaucrats?
[20:54] <@grunny> Wikia has already "pre-approved" the users
[20:54] <Cal_Jedi> HUGE support. This will be a great plus. And they definitely deserve it.
[20:54] <@Xd1358> Menkooroo: nope
[20:54] <MasterJonathan> Support both.
[20:54] <MasterJonathan> Also, what about the decision from the July 2009 Mofference to give Culator the CheckUser right? Is there still something preventing that from occurring, or can we do that as well?
[20:54] <@Xd1358> it's a separate rght
[20:54] <@grunny> Menkooroo: currently only I have it
[20:54] <Exiledjedi> Support both 100%
[20:54] <@Xd1358> MasterJonathan: wikia, that's why
[20:54] <Ineedaname> I think this should be handled through WP:RFU
[20:54] <@IFYLOFD> We're gonna give CheckUser to Tope? lol :P
[20:54] <@grunny> Graestan also had it before he resigned
[20:54] <Karohalva> MasterJohnathan: Yes. He's Culator.
[20:54] <@Darth_Culator> Wikia hates me.
[20:55] <@Darth_Culator> I do not exaggerate.
[20:55] * Karohalva wonders why. :P
[20:55] <NaruHina> Not really an ability one can "deserve", but it would be beneficial.
[20:55] * @IFYLOFD pats Culator on the back
[20:55] <@IFYLOFD> It's OK, buddy
[20:55] <@grunny> the original CU vote for Graestan was at a mofference, so this should be no problem
[20:55] <@IFYLOFD> It's OK to cry
[20:55] <@Darth_Culator> Cry? I'm proud.
[20:55] <Karohalva> Give Checkuser to whoever can make use of it.
[20:55] <Exiledjedi> I trust you Culator!
[20:55] <Menkooroo> Grunny got his through a CT, not RFR
[20:55] <Cal_Jedi> Indeed
[20:55] <@Toprawa> This is pretty straightforward as well. We'll hold individual votes for GT and myself
[20:55] <@CavalierOne> Wikia hates Culator, Culator hates Wikia. Its a vicious circle.
[20:55] <@IFYLOFD> Sounds like somebody's in denial
[20:55] <@Toprawa> Vote for Green tentacle.
[20:55] <@grunny> it's more an anti-vandal/troll tool and having more coverage across timezones would be beneficial
[20:55] <@Toprawa> ~open
[20:55] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[20:56] <@Enochf> Support GT always ^_^
[20:56] <Cal_Jedi> ~support :D
[20:56] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[20:56] * NaruHina pats Culator on the back for that
[20:56] <Menkooroo> ~support
[20:56] <@Xd1358> I say we give CU to whoever is number 89 in the editcount stats
[20:56] <@PurpleTentacle> Menkooroo: Support vote counted.
[20:56] <Exiledjedi> ~support
[20:56] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[20:56] <Karohalva> ~support
[20:56] <@Toprawa> ~support
[20:56] <Nayayen> ~support because it can only be a good thing
[20:56] <@PurpleTentacle> Karohalva: Support vote counted.
[20:56] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[20:56] <@grunny> ~support
[20:56] <@PurpleTentacle> Nayayen: Support vote counted.
[20:56] <MasterJonathan> ~support
[20:56] <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
[20:56] <@Darth_Culator> ~support
[20:56] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[20:56] <@PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted.
[20:56] <@Xd1358> ~support
[20:56] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[20:56] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[20:56] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[20:56] <@Enochf> And Toprawa, well, he hasn't said anything mean about me in months
[20:56] <NaruHina> ~support
[20:56] <@PurpleTentacle> NaruHina: Support vote counted.
[20:56] <Jang|Away> ~support
[20:56] <@PurpleTentacle> Jang|Away: Support vote counted.
[20:56] <@jSarek> ~support
[20:56] <@PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Support vote counted.
[20:56] <@IFYLOFD> ~oppose Just to be an asshole!
[20:56] <@PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Oppose vote counted.
[20:56] <@Enochf> ~support
[20:56] <@PurpleTentacle> Enochf: Support vote counted.
[20:56] <@Toprawa> Enochf> we aim to please :P
[20:56] <@Toprawa> Closing first vote in 10.
[20:56] <Ineedaname> ~support
[20:56] <@PurpleTentacle> Ineedaname: Support vote counted.
[20:56] <@Toprawa> ~close
[20:56] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[20:56] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[20:56] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 16, Oppose: 1
[20:56] <@Toprawa> GT approved for CU.
[20:56] <@Toprawa> And a secondary vote for myself.
[20:56] <@Toprawa> ~open
[20:56] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[20:56] <MasterJonathan> ~support
[20:56] <Cal_Jedi> ~support :D
[20:56] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[20:56] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[20:56] <Nayayen> ~support because it can only be a good thing
[20:56] <@PurpleTentacle> Nayayen: Support vote counted.
[20:56] <@Xd1358> ~support
[20:56] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[20:56] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[20:56] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[20:56] <Exiledjedi> ~support
[20:56] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[20:56] <Jang|Away> ~support :D
[20:56] <@PurpleTentacle> Jang|Away: Support vote counted.
[20:56] <@GreenTentacle> ~support
[20:57] <@PurpleTentacle> GreenTentacle: Support vote counted.
[20:57] <@grunny> ~support
[20:57] <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
[20:57] <@Darth_Culator> ~support
[20:57] <@IFYLOFD> ~oppose Just to be a double asshole!
[20:57] <@PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Oppose vote counted.
[20:57] <@PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted.
[20:57] <NaruHina> ~support
[20:57] <@PurpleTentacle> NaruHina: Support vote counted.
[20:57] <@Enochf> ~support
[20:57] <@PurpleTentacle> Enochf: Support vote counted.
[20:57] <@Enochf> Oops
[20:57] <@Enochf> Didn't know we were doing separate thingies
[20:57] <@Toprawa> Closing in 10 seconds.
[20:57] <Karohalva> ~support
[20:57] <@PurpleTentacle> Karohalva: Support vote counted.
[20:57] <@Toprawa> ~close
[20:57] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[20:57] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[20:57] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 13, Oppose: 1
[20:58] <@Toprawa> Toprawa approved for CU as well.
[20:58] <Karohalva> Does PurpleTentacle get Checkuser too?
[20:58] <@IFYLOFD> We need to use this bot for Inq/AC meetings
[20:58] <@Toprawa> My thanks to all who supported, except Floyd :P
[20:58] <NaruHina> Yay for third person!
[20:58] <Cal_Jedi> XD
[20:58] * @IFYLOFD flashes middle finger defiantly
[20:58] * Toprawa sets mode: +m
[20:58] <@Xd1358> heh
[20:58] <@Darth_Culator> Hang on.
[20:58] <@Toprawa> Yo
[20:58] <@Toprawa> Go
[20:58] <@Darth_Culator> Given my recent BC election, perhaps we should re-petition Wikia to give me CheckUser.
[20:59] <@Darth_Culator> Just so they can say "no" again.
[20:59] <@Xd1358> !markov YES
[20:59] <@Nuku-Nuku> Xd1358: Error: I was unable to generate a Markov chain at least 3 words long.
[20:59] <@Enochf> Heh
[20:59] <@IFYLOFD> And let us troll.
[20:59] <@Toprawa> Good idea.
[20:59] <@Darth_Culator> And emphasize how much they love to ignore us.
[20:59] <@CavalierOne> I support this plan whole heartedly.
[20:59] <@IFYLOFD> Let's give em the old Italian Salute
[20:59] * Xd1358 sets mode: -m
[20:59] <Karohalva> Forward the CT supporting Culator to them you mean?
[20:59] <NaruHina> I'm not the only one that read "Yo Joe", right?
[20:59] <@jSarek> There's never a good time to use a bathroom during a Mofference.
[21:00] <Jaymach> I imagine the main reason they don't want to give you it is because it;s not meant to be used just to check for sockpuppets
[21:00] <MasterJonathan> Karo: It was a Mofference vote.
[21:00] <Karohalva> ah
[21:00] <Jaymach> it's only meant to be used in extreme cases of vandalism
[21:00] <@Enochf> Well, and those damn multi-voters in QOTD
[21:00] <Exiledjedi> Vote Now!
[21:00] <Jaymach> no, really just extreme cases of vandalism :P
[21:00] <@Enochf> *sigh* Fine
[21:00] <@Xd1358> Jaymach: based on my experiences with CU requests, not really
[21:01] <Cal_Jedi> Per Xd.
[21:01] <Jaymach> (Xd1358): I had it and had strict rules on when I was and wasn't meant to use it :P
[21:01] <Ineedaname> QotD multi-voting is extreme vandalism
[21:01] <@Xd1358> Jaymach: vstf is different
[21:01] * Jaymach shrugs
[21:01] <@grunny> Jaymach: sockpuppet checks are one of the main reasons for CU
[21:01] <@Toprawa> Grunny, can you handle re-petitioning?
[21:01] <@Darth_Culator> Anyway, we should probably vote on that.
[21:01] <@grunny> VSTF are restricted in what they can use it for however
[21:02] <@IFYLOFD> To honor the late Whitney Houston, let's give Wikia the Greatest Love of All
[21:02] <Exiledjedi> If 10 new users vote for an absolutely awful quote then it should be used.
[21:02] <@grunny> Toprawa: I can ask about it, yes
[21:02] <NaruHina> We need publicized links to the petition somewhere
[21:02] <NaruHina> It'll be like a hockey game.
[21:02] <@Toprawa> Ok, holding a secondary vote to re-petition for Culator's CU status, which, note, was approved previously.
[21:02] <@Toprawa> ~open
[21:02] <Karohalva> We should petition to petition for more petitions.
[21:02] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[21:02] <@Xd1358> ~support
[21:02] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[21:03] <@GreenTentacle> ~support
[21:03] <@PurpleTentacle> GreenTentacle: Support vote counted.
[21:03] <@Toprawa> ~support
[21:03] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[21:03] <Cal_Jedi> ~support definitely.
[21:03] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[21:03] <MasterJonathan> ~support
[21:03] <Nayayen> ~support
[21:03] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[21:03] <@PurpleTentacle> Nayayen: Support vote counted.
[21:03] <Corellian_Premie> ~support
[21:03] <@PurpleTentacle> Corellian_Premie: Support vote counted.
[21:03] <Cal_Jedi> :D
[21:03] <Ineedaname> ~support
[21:03] <@PurpleTentacle> Ineedaname: Support vote counted.
[21:03] <Karohalva> ~support
[21:03] <@PurpleTentacle> Karohalva: Support vote counted.
[21:03] <Exiledjedi> ~support
[21:03] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[21:03] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[21:03] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[21:03] <Jang|Away> ~support
[21:03] <@PurpleTentacle> Jang|Away: Support vote counted.
[21:03] <Menkooroo> ~support
[21:03] <@PurpleTentacle> Menkooroo: Support vote counted.
[21:03] <NaruHina> ~support
[21:03] <@PurpleTentacle> NaruHina: Support vote counted.
[21:03] <@IFYLOFD> ~support
[21:03] <@PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[21:03] <@Xd1358> basically, get ALL the checkusers!
[21:03] <@jSarek> ~support
[21:03] <@PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Support vote counted.
[21:03] <Karohalva> All your users belong to us?
[21:03] <@Xd1358> are belong*
[21:03] <@Toprawa> Closing in 10
[21:03] <@Toprawa> ~close
[21:03] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[21:03] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[21:03] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 16, Oppose: 0
[21:03] <@Toprawa> Culator will be re-petitioned.
[21:04] * Toprawa sets mode: +m
[21:04] <@Toprawa> Item 16.
[21:04] * Darth_Culator changes topic to 'Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki: http://wookieepedia.com - THIS IS THE MOFFERENCE - http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/WP:M#Agenda - Item #16'
[21:04] <@Toprawa> I don't have a concrete plan to be voted on, but I think that the Mofference is a great forum for discussing this idea and potentially tossing out suggestions that could later be CT'd. I want to propose the showcasing of Good Articles on the front page. This was something that was suggested last year when we were trying to fight the shrinking FA queue, but we opted for implementing the RFAN...
[21:04] <@Toprawa> ...page instead. I don't suggest that we replace FAs on the front page, but rather that we supplement them. I'm thinking a very small and unobtrusive line falling below "This week's other Featured Article" that says "This week's Good Articles: Huey, Dewey, Louie, and Scrooge." I've always felt it's a bit unfortunate that Good Articles, which are of the same quality as FAs but a little...
[21:04] <@Toprawa> ...shorter, aren't shown off to the site's casual readers the way that FAs are. Questions such as "Where do we start?" could be hammered out in a CT or SH thread, I think; right now at the Mofference, I just want to gauge reactions to this idea, and see if four per week is an OK number. Menkooroo 18:58, January 30, 2012 (UTC)
[21:04] * Toprawa sets mode: +v Menkooroo
[21:04] <+Menkooroo> We're not really voting on specifics here --- let me know how you feel about this, but also give me some ideas. Is four a week a good number? Is below the "This week's other FA" a good place? We can use the SH and CT to hammer out where the hell we're going to start, but let's have a bit of discussion here, too. And... go!
[21:04] <@Xd1358> seven per week! or not
[21:04] * Toprawa sets mode: -m
[21:04] <MasterJonathan> I would suggest three to five per week, with flexibility for a little more if a set of related articles is done all at once.
[21:05] <Cal_Jedi> I also suggest that more attention be given to the RFAN. It's a good thing, it's just often sitting there dead.
[21:05] <@IFYLOFD> I call getting to pick which GAs are featured
[21:05] * Toprawa sets mode: -v Menkooroo
[21:05] <@IFYLOFD> Hint: Only mine!
[21:05] <Exiledjedi> I think the GAs should be featured on the main page.
[21:05] <Jang|Away> XD
[21:05] <Karohalva> Do both FA and GA?
[21:05] <Menkooroo> We have over eleven hundred, but better late than never. :D
[21:05] <@CavalierOne> I support if I get DarkStryder month.
[21:05] <NaruHina> So long as we're going for revamping the page, this would be a good addition.
[21:05] <@Xd1358> Based on the abusefilter that tags {{FAnom}}, we've had eight new nominations since January 2
[21:05] <@Xd1358> :|
[21:05] <Cal_Jedi> It would keep new stuff on the Main Page for quite a while.
[21:05] <@jSarek> Okay, I had a crazy thought earlier. A lot of work goes into GAs, more than went into even FAs when we started the Inq. Maybe we ought to be treating them like FAs as far as the front page is concerned.
[21:05] <Corellian_Premie> Sure, i think its a great idea
[21:05] <Menkooroo> jSarek: Featuring them in lieu of FAs?
[21:06] <Exiledjedi> We will probably need the AC to review a lot of old GAs.
[21:06] <Menkooroo> If we started at the beginning.
[21:06] <NaruHina> Never been a fan of FAtizing GAs.
[21:06] <Menkooroo> But we could have creative weeks.
[21:06] <Cal_Jedi> RGAN page? :P
[21:06] <Menkooroo> Darkstryder week.
[21:06] <@Xd1358> add outdated to the agenda
[21:06] <Menkooroo> Dulok week.
[21:06] <Jang|Away> Perhaps not the entire intro, but a sentence or something like that. Not a complete showcase like the FA
[21:06] <@Xd1358> of the AC meeting
[21:06] <@grunny> Fas and GAs together on the main page
[21:06] <Menkooroo> TOgether.
[21:06] <@CavalierOne> Menk: Month. There's /more/ than enough.
[21:06] <@Toprawa> Together
[21:06] <Exiledjedi> Random KOTOR weapon week!
[21:06] <@jSarek> Menk: Basically.
[21:06] <@Xd1358> FAs and GAs, sitting in a tree
[21:06] <Menkooroo> heh
[21:06] <Exiledjedi> Together
[21:06] <Cal_Jedi> Together.
[21:06] <Menkooroo> I like the together idea.
[21:06] <Cal_Jedi> And ratify the RGAN page. :P
[21:07] <@CavalierOne> I plan DarkStryder /year/. 365 articles in a row.
[21:07] <Jang|Away> Where will two fit? :P
[21:07] <@Xd1358> :o
[21:07] <Ineedaname> DarkStryder Wiki
[21:07] <Cal_Jedi> XD
[21:07] <NaruHina> Let's gettum hitched
[21:07] <Menkooroo> What does everyone think about putting them below "This week's other FA" ?
[21:07] <Menkooroo> "This week's GAs are:"
[21:07] <Menkooroo> no images or intros
[21:07] <Menkooroo> just a list
[21:07] <Menkooroo> Thoughts?
[21:07] <MasterJonathan> I like that location.
[21:07] <Karohalva> Yes. That.
[21:07] <Exiledjedi> Sounds like a good place.
[21:07] <Corellian_Premie> Definitely below.
[21:07] <@grunny> I'd like the intro tbh
[21:07] <Menkooroo> Four or five intros on the main page at once?
[21:07] <@IFYLOFD> How about instead of the other FA, we have GAs
[21:07] <@CavalierOne> Okay, people - here's a thought to throw in: slider on the main page to flick between FA and GA?
[21:07] <@Toprawa> I think we should present them same as FAs, just below the FA box
[21:07] <Menkooroo> Or... seven a week, a new intro every day?
[21:07] <NaruHina> Definitely that while we're still in traditional format
[21:08] <@IFYLOFD> To preserve the FA queue
[21:08] <Jang|Away> I would suggest a short section dedicating it to the GAs, but it features a shorten intro, only showcase-y like the FA
[21:08] <Cal_Jedi> Intro.
[21:08] <Jang|Away> like on the sidebar
[21:08] <NaruHina> We can think about adding GA intros when we revamp.
[21:08] <@jSarek> Because, frankly, we've set a very high bar for FAs. Rightfully. But that bar pretty much means we're never going to see daily FAs again. If that "Eight new noms since New YEar" thing above is true, we'll be lucky to get one a week.
[21:08] <Nayayen> Per Naru's last comment
[21:08] <Jang|Away> only not* sorry
[21:08] <Menkooroo> The RFAN is helping.
[21:08] <Menkooroo> We closed eight RFANs in January.
[21:08] <Exiledjedi> Intro!
[21:08] <@jSarek> So put GAs in that slot. Make the weekend ones (or just Saturday ones, or whatever) FAs. The rest? GAs.
[21:08] <Ineedaname> Just a link seems a bit pointless when there's a link to a random GA on the right
[21:08] <NaruHina> We need Redux to get looked at.
[21:09] <Jang|Away> Except GAs are out of the GAN quicker than FAs are out of the FAN.
[21:09] <Jang|Away> If we showcase GAs, they would be more GAs than FAs
[21:09] <Cal_Jedi> Most of the time.
[21:09] <@CavalierOne> How about Sun-Wed = one FA, Thur - Sat = individual GAs?
[21:09] <Jang|Away> FAs should be the showcase, as they are featured :P
[21:09] <Menkooroo> I'm not crazy about replacing FAs with GAs on the main page.
[21:09] <Menkooroo> I like the complementary idea.
[21:09] <Exiledjedi> I've seen some GAs that really need some work to bring them up to standard.
[21:09] <Karohalva> Showcase GAs for a shorter duration?
[21:10] <@Xd1358> Exiledjedi: add them to the agenda for the next AC meeting
[21:10] <Jang|Away> meh what's the point of the FAN then is what my concern is
[21:10] <Cal_Jedi> Yeah. Xd beat me to it. P
[21:10] <Cal_Jedi> * :P
[21:10] <Jang|Away> Unless we speed up the FAN :P Always good
[21:10] <Jang|Away> review more
[21:10] <MasterJonathan> I'm open to almost anything here.
[21:10] <Exiledjedi> GAs and FAs at the same time. Maybe an FA a week and a GA every other day?
[21:10] <@Xd1358> Doesn't really help
[21:10] <@Xd1358> http://starwars.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:AbuseLog&wpSearchFilter=37
[21:10] <@Xd1358> That's all new FANs since January 2
[21:10] <@jSarek> Jang: Then we should drop the word requirement from FAs down to GA level, and feature GAs. Because we aren't getting enough FAs to feature properly.
[21:11] <Karohalva> The hell? I'm innocent.
[21:11] <@CavalierOne> And two of them are mine!
[21:11] <Menkooroo> Wrong link, Xs?
[21:11] <Menkooroo> Xd
[21:11] <Cal_Jedi> I think keep FAs on the Main page as is, and put GAs on there underneath every (so much amount of ti)
[21:11] <@Xd1358> no
[21:11] <Cal_Jedi> *time)
[21:11] <Jang|Away> I wouldn't drop the word count but the page just needs motivation. The majority of noms just sit there without any reviews at times
[21:11] <@Xd1358> Menkooroo: that filter tags the edit when FAnom is added
[21:11] <Nayayen> Xd1358: Yes wrong link, it's showing ALL abuse filter tags.
[21:11] <MasterJonathan> Xd: that gave me the complete abuse log, not jjust for that filter
[21:11] <MasterJonathan> just*
[21:11] <@Toprawa> I'm not seeing any prevailing line of favor here one way or another in the interest of holding a vote. Motion to move discussion to SH?
[21:11] <@Xd1358> :/
[21:11] <Jang|Away> That's a whole different story, but the fact of the matter is we will see more GAs on the page page than FAs because of its quick time
[21:11] <@Xd1358> maybe that's admin only
[21:11] <Exiledjedi> Sounds good to me.
[21:12] <Jang|Away> main page*
[21:12] <Menkooroo> Jang: Even if we passed them quicker, they're not being nommed frequently enough :/
[21:12] <@Xd1358> regardless, eight new FANs since January 2
[21:12] <@Xd1358> that's barely one a week
[21:12] <Jang|Away> Then the "Featured" will sound weird if we're showcasing GAs all the time :P
[21:12] <@CavalierOne> Tope; I think SH is the way to go. Support is there, but the details need a damn good hammering out.
[21:12] <Exiledjedi> To the senate hall!
[21:12] <@Toprawa> Indeed, Cav
[21:12] <Cal_Jedi> Yeah.
[21:12] <@Darth_Culator> To the Batcave!
[21:12] <Menkooroo> Yeah. I'm not proposing GAs be "featured" --- just "showcased."
[21:12] <Menkooroo> If that makes sense.
[21:12] <@Enochf> Dammit, Whitney Houston was *not* on my deathpool
[21:12] <Cal_Jedi> Let's GO!
[21:12] <Jang|Away> Menk: GAN gets more activity than the FAN :P
[21:12] <Menkooroo> Unobtrusively on the main page.
[21:13] <Menkooroo> Because people are lazy! :P
[21:13] <@Xd1358> SH it
[21:13] <Jang|Away> CAN possibly beats both XD
[21:13] <Menkooroo> I'll start an SH thread tonight, I will!
[21:13] <Menkooroo> Thanks for all the suggestions, cowfolks.
[21:13] <Cal_Jedi> Let's /not/ get to displaying CANs on the Main Page. :O
[21:13] <NaruHina> CAN ALL THE THINGS
[21:13] <@CavalierOne> Of course, featuring GAs may be something to add into the current discussion on revamping the entire main page.
[21:13] <@Toprawa> Ok, motion will be put to SH.
[21:13] <Jang|Away> All right, but my issues remain :P
[21:13] <@Toprawa> Moving on.
[21:13] <NaruHina> There's plenty of tin to go around!
[21:13] * Toprawa sets mode: +m
[21:13] * Darth_Culator changes topic to 'Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki: http://wookieepedia.com - THIS IS THE MOFFERENCE - http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/WP:M#Agenda - Item #17'
[21:13] <@Toprawa> New addition to our Official friends nomination page. Something I noticed today when JMAS nominated something for removal. JangFett (Talk) 00:30, February 2, 2012 (UTC)
[21:13] * Toprawa sets mode: +v Jang|Away
[21:13] <@Toprawa> Jang
[21:13] <+Jang|Away> Okay, basically this will be similar to our removal of user rights process, but it will be for our Official Friends. I noticed that we don't have an official removal process for that page. Minor because we normally don't remove official friends, but inserting one for the future shouldn't be much of a problem.
[21:14] <+Jang|Away> The removal nomination page will be within the current nomination page. In its own separate section, like the current selection/nomination process, the template, that will be hidden via html comment tags <!-- -->, will follow suit to our previous removal noms (Removal, Keep, Neutral, comment sections).
[21:14] <+Jang|Away> What the future nomination page will look like is seen here: You may also click edit to see the hidden templates too http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:JangFett/testWhat the future nomination page will look like is seen here: You may also click edit to see the hidden templates too http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:JangFett/testWhat the future nomination page will look like is seen here:...
[21:14] <+Jang|Away> ...You may also click edit to see the hidden templates too http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:JangFett/test
[21:14] <+Jang|Away> Notice I've separated the two nomination processes and each have their own set of process rules. I think this will be more organized in the future for users who do nominate an article for removal. They won't have to change the nomination for friend's hidden template or have to say "REMOVE" or something to show that it's a removal nom.
[21:14] <+Jang|Away> That's it. :P
[21:14] * Toprawa sets mode: -m
[21:14] * Toprawa sets mode: -v Jang|Away
[21:14] <@Toprawa> Makes sense for formality. Current Galactic Empire nom shows the need for it.
[21:14] <Jang|Away> Apologizes for the copy/paste fail.
[21:15] * Karohalva doesn't really care about official friends.
[21:15] <Cal_Jedi> WE DON'T HAVE FRIENDS!!!
[21:15] <Jang|Away> :'(
[21:15] <Cal_Jedi> :P
[21:15] <@Xd1358> I don't like you
[21:15] <Menkooroo> grammar is weird here:
[21:15] <Menkooroo> Any Wookieepedian, websites and/or individuals, will nominate to remove a current Official Friends on this page.
[21:15] <@Xd1358> any of you!
[21:15] <@Enochf> "1.Any websites that fail to be related to Star Wars" is the only criterion?
[21:15] <Nayayen> We basically have StarWars.com as an official friend. End of story :P
[21:16] <Ineedaname> SW.com probably links us more than any of the official friends do
[21:16] <NaruHina> If you fail to nominate a Friend for removal, you're not a Wookieepedian.
[21:16] <NaruHina> What's wierd about that?
[21:16] <Nayayen> Add something about websites not linking to us anymore?
[21:16] <@Darth_Culator> I'd like to add a line there. "If an existing Official Friend has altered their site in such a way that a connection to Wookieepedia is no longer visible, or has changed their format significantly since their nomination, an administrator may remove them from the Main Page prior to the closing of this vote."
[21:16] <Menkooroo> Should it read: Any Wookieepedian will nominate to remove a current Official Friends, websites and/or individuals, on this page.
[21:16] <NaruHina> I thought we smiled upon sacrificial rite around here.
[21:16] <MasterJonathan> "Any Wookieepedia can" would be even more correct.
[21:16] <@Toprawa> Culator's idea is good for expediency
[21:17] <Menkooroo> Even if the removal vote fails?
[21:17] <Menkooroo> An admin can still remove it?
[21:17] <@jSarek> Meh. I don't think it's the end of the world if we list someone as a friend for the duratino of a vote.
[21:17] <@jSarek> *duration
[21:17] <@Toprawa> Well, in the instance the vote is going that way
[21:17] <MasterJonathan> per jSarek
[21:17] <@Toprawa> as it doubtless will
[21:18] <Jang|Away> I'm all in favor of correcting my crappy grammar errors :P
[21:18] <Menkooroo> Wording doesn't reflect that.
[21:18] <@Darth_Culator> If a site turns into a spam site, I think it's imperative that we delink it immediately.
[21:18] <Cal_Jedi> Per Culator.
[21:18] <Karohalva> You're referring to Starwars.com, yes?
[21:18] <@Xd1358> Per Culator
[21:18] <Exiledjedi> Per Culator
[21:18] <@Darth_Culator> That has happened on more than one occasion.
[21:18] <@Toprawa> per Culator
[21:18] <@Xd1358> Karohalva++;
[21:18] <@jSarek> Hmm. Fair enough.
[21:18] <@Darth_Culator> Star Wars Outsider springs to mind.
[21:19] <@Darth_Culator> Turned into a link farm. If we went strictly per policy, we'd still link to them.
[21:19] <@jSarek> Though I think we need stronger wording than just "a connection to Wookieepedia is no longer visible, or has changed their format significantly since their nomination." Legit site redesigns could trigger either or both of those clauses with ease.
[21:20] <Menkooroo> Two votes, then? One for original proposal, one for Culator's amendment?
[21:20] <Cal_Jedi> Something to do with if they've removed us from their site completely?
[21:20] <@Darth_Culator> Well if they put the link back, we'd put our link back.
[21:20] <Karohalva> Content must retain viable connection to Wookieepedia and Star Wars?
[21:21] <@Darth_Culator> We're not robots. Only admins can edit the OFW template.
[21:21] <@jSarek> Cal: More like, if the site ceases to be the site it was, or something. I mean, link farms could still link to us, right? We still would need to remove them for user safety.
[21:21] <Cal_Jedi> Right.
[21:21] <@Enochf> Hmf. Can we restore the Blue Milk Special article, on a tangential note?
[21:21] <Cal_Jedi> makes sense.
[21:21] <@Toprawa> I've made some minor revisions to the text. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:JangFett/test#Removal_process
[21:21] * CommanderShepard (~N7@wikia/trekweb.N7) Quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi)
[21:21] <@Toprawa> If there are further wording issues, please bring them up
[21:21] <@jSarek> Karo: Definitely on the right track.
[21:22] <Jang|Away> Thanks Tope
[21:22] <@Toprawa> Sure
[21:22] <Cal_Jedi> I like it.
[21:22] <MasterJonathan> Looks good.
[21:22] <Menkooroo> So non-Wookieepedians can make nominations?
[21:22] <Menkooroo> Websites can vote to remove themselves?
[21:22] <@Toprawa> I imagine that as someone nominating to remove themselves
[21:23] <@Toprawa> They don't necessarily need to be a user
[21:23] <Menkooroo> Ah, OK. Then the grammar is fine. My mistake. :P
[21:23] <@Enochf> Heh. Ah, the cross-site flounce.
[21:23] <@jSarek> Darthipedia Dayz are here again! :-p
[21:23] <@Toprawa> Ok, we'll hold two votes. One for Jang's proposal, and one for Culator's addition.
[21:23] <@Toprawa> Vote now for Jang's proposal.
[21:23] <@Toprawa> ~open
[21:23] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[21:23] <Jang|Away> ~support
[21:23] <@PurpleTentacle> Jang|Away: Support vote counted.
[21:23] <@jSarek> ~support
[21:23] <@PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Support vote counted.
[21:23] <MasterJonathan> ~support
[21:23] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[21:23] <@Toprawa> ~support
[21:23] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[21:23] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[21:23] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[21:23] <Nayayen> ~support
[21:23] <@Darth_Culator> ~support
[21:23] <@PurpleTentacle> Nayayen: Support vote counted.
[21:23] <@PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted.
[21:23] <Corellian_Premie> ~support
[21:23] <@PurpleTentacle> Corellian_Premie: Support vote counted.
[21:23] <Karohalva> ~support
[21:23] <@PurpleTentacle> Karohalva: Support vote counted.
[21:23] <Menkooroo> ~support
[21:23] <@Enochf> Eh. These days I basically *am* Darthipedia. And I'm cuddly and fuzzy and friendly.
[21:24] <@PurpleTentacle> Menkooroo: Support vote counted.
[21:24] <@Xd1358> ~support
[21:24] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[21:24] <Exiledjedi> ~support
[21:24] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[21:24] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[21:24] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[21:24] <@IFYLOFD> ~support
[21:24] <@PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted.
[21:24] * Karohalva is also a Darthipedian and for the good of the Wook will vote against Darthipedia every time.
[21:24] <@Toprawa> Vote closing in 10 seconds.
[21:24] <@Xd1358> Good guy Karohalva
[21:24] <@Toprawa> ~close
[21:24] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[21:24] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[21:24] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 14, Oppose: 0
[21:24] <@Toprawa> Removal process for Official Friends ratified.
[21:24] <@Toprawa> Culator, would you mind reposting what you want yours to say?
[21:25] <@Darth_Culator> "6. If an existing Official Friend has altered their site in such a way that a connection to Wookieepedia is no longer visible, or has changed their format significantly since their nomination, an administrator may remove them from the Main Page prior to the closing of this vote."
[21:25] <@Toprawa> Vote on this.
[21:25] <@Toprawa> ~open
[21:25] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[21:25] <MasterJonathan> ~support
[21:25] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[21:25] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[21:25] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[21:25] <@Xd1358> ~support
[21:25] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[21:25] <@Toprawa> ~support
[21:25] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[21:25] <@Darth_Culator> ~support
[21:25] <Nayayen> ~support
[21:25] <Menkooroo> ~oppose
[21:25] <@PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted.
[21:25] <@PurpleTentacle> Nayayen: Support vote counted.
[21:25] <@PurpleTentacle> Menkooroo: Oppose vote counted.
[21:25] <Cal_Jedi> ~Support big support
[21:25] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[21:25] <@jSarek> ~oppose.
[21:25] <Jang|Away> ~support
[21:25] <@PurpleTentacle> Jang|Away: Support vote counted.
[21:25] <@jSarek> ~oppose
[21:25] <@PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Oppose vote counted.
[21:25] <Karohalva> ~oppose Let's be suitably democratic
[21:25] <@PurpleTentacle> Karohalva: Oppose vote counted.
[21:26] <Corellian_Premie> ~support
[21:26] <@PurpleTentacle> Corellian_Premie: Support vote counted.
[21:26] <Exiledjedi> ~support I think we can trust the Admins on this
[21:26] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[21:26] <@grunny> ~support
[21:26] <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
[21:26] <@Toprawa> Vote closing in 10 seconds
[21:26] <Cal_Jedi> OH NO! THE ADMINS ARE REALLY DICTATORS!
[21:26] <Cal_Jedi> :P
[21:26] <@Toprawa> ~close
[21:26] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[21:26] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[21:26] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 11, Oppose: 3
[21:26] * ChanServ sets mode: -v Cal_Jedi
[21:27] <@Xd1358> For epic justice
[21:27] <@Toprawa> I think that's consensus. Anyone want to check my math?
[21:27] <@Enochf> ~whistle innocently
[21:27] <@jSarek> Well, that ends the need for me to come up with different wording. :-p
[21:27] <@Xd1358> consensus it is
[21:27] <@jSarek> No, I think you're right.
[21:27] <@Toprawa> Ok, Culator's amendment will be added to the Removal process.
[21:28] * Toprawa sets mode: +m
[21:28] <@Toprawa> Moving on.
[21:28] * Darth_Culator changes topic to 'Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki: http://wookieepedia.com - THIS IS THE MOFFERENCE - http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/WP:M#Agenda - Item #18'
[21:28] <@Toprawa> Part 1: Amend Wookieepedia:User image policy item 7 to read "Users with no contributions to the main namespace for more than 12 months are considered inactive and lose their privileges in regards to user images." This is how it has generally been interpreted, but best make it explicit. Part 2: Add "Users must meet the requirements of Wookieepedia:Single-issue voters to earn and maintain user...
[21:28] <@Toprawa> ...image privileges." as item 10 of Wookieepedia:User image policy. I do not believe this second part will be an excessive burden, since anyone who can't be bothered to make 50 edits can just use Oasis (spit) and Wikia's avatar system (spit). -- Darth Culator (Talk) 17:47, February 4, 2012 (UTC)
[21:28] <@Toprawa> Culator
[21:28] <@Darth_Culator> That's pretty much it in a nutshell.
[21:28] * Toprawa sets mode: -m
[21:28] <@Enochf> ...I see no reason to go and delete the images of old users
[21:29] <@Enochf> They're already limited to 1 or 2 anyway
[21:29] <@Darth_Culator> We created the {{Inactive}} template to keep people from using us like Geocities.
[21:29] <MasterJonathan> Part 2: Good idea, but it needs clarification as to whether or not the productivity requirement also applies.
[21:29] <@jSarek> Enochf: We do it all the time.
[21:29] <@Xd1358> Delete ALL the things!
[21:29] <@Enochf> Eh
[21:29] <@Darth_Culator> But the CT that created it neglected to make the MAIN namespace explicit. Oops.
[21:29] <@Enochf> Oh
[21:29] <@jSarek> Bah. I'm getting tired of biting noobs, though. Let them add a legal number of user images when they get started.
[21:30] <Karohalva> They're really the only ones who look at the pics anyway.
[21:30] <@Enochf> We need an influx of newbs to handle TCW stuff anyway
[21:30] <@Enochf> I keep pestering new meat to join
[21:30] <@Enochf> But I digress
[21:30] <Jang|Away> CC can handle all that. :P
[21:31] <@Enochf> Is the policy to replace inactive users' pages with an inactive template?
[21:31] <@Enochf> Or just to delete the pics and leave their pages with an ugly X?
[21:31] <@Toprawa> MJ> I think the productivity requirement is covered under all of WP:SIV
[21:31] <Cal_Jedi> Per Tope.
[21:31] <@jSarek> Enochf: We replace pages with the template, then delete unused user images (which their's are).
[21:31] <Exiledjedi> Can anyone place the {{INACTIVE}} template or just Admins?
[21:31] <@Darth_Culator> I don't see a need to pick and choose.
[21:31] <MasterJonathan> Tope: But it doesn't apply to everything. Particularly, it doesn't apply to QOTD. SO does it apply here?
[21:32] <@Enochf> In that case, reluctantly support, but I think 12 months might be a bit too short
[21:32] <@Darth_Culator> Personally, I think it's too long. :P
[21:32] <@Xd1358> we don't replace if they have a vacation notice or something
[21:32] <Cal_Jedi> EJ: I've done it before.
[21:32] <Karohalva> You're getting soft in your old age, sir.
[21:32] <@Xd1358> or {{user left}}
[21:32] <@Toprawa> Why wouldn't it? The QOTD exemption doesn't make this exempt by default
[21:32] <@Enochf> I've always been softer than Culator
[21:33] <@Xd1358> Enochf: It's impossible to not be
[21:33] <Exiledjedi> Thanks Cal
[21:33] <@grunny> it will be included by default in WP:SIV
[21:33] <MasterJonathan> The point is that there can be exemptions, so is this one?
[21:33] <@jSarek> Enochf: As Culator says, the policy already exists; the only thing I think any of us are looking to change is that only the mainspace counts to keep the privelige.
[21:33] <@Toprawa> Not if it doesn't say it's an exemption
[21:33] <@grunny> we explicitly exempt things, so unless we want to do that, the productivity requirements apply
[21:33] <MasterJonathan> OK, then.
[21:34] <Menkooroo> vote now!
[21:34] <@Darth_Culator> So, part 1 is to amend item 7 to main namespace contribs only.
[21:34] <@Toprawa> We'll vote on this in pieces.
[21:34] <@Toprawa> Voting on Part 1.
[21:34] <@Toprawa> ~open
[21:34] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[21:34] <@Xd1358> ~support
[21:34] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[21:34] <Karohalva> ~support
[21:34] <@PurpleTentacle> Karohalva: Support vote counted.
[21:34] <MasterJonathan> ~support
[21:34] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[21:34] <@jSarek> ~support
[21:34] <Nayayen> ~support
[21:34] <@PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Support vote counted.
[21:34] <@PurpleTentacle> Nayayen: Support vote counted.
[21:34] <@Darth_Culator> ~support
[21:34] <@PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted.
[21:34] <@Toprawa> ~support
[21:34] <@grunny> ~support
[21:34] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[21:34] <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
[21:34] <Menkooroo> ~support
[21:34] <@PurpleTentacle> Menkooroo: Support vote counted.
[21:34] <Exiledjedi> ~support
[21:34] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[21:34] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[21:34] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[21:34] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[21:34] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[21:34] <Corellian_Premie> ~support
[21:34] <@PurpleTentacle> Corellian_Premie: Support vote counted.
[21:35] <@Toprawa> Vote closing in 10.
[21:35] <@Toprawa> ~close
[21:35] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[21:35] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[21:35] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 13, Oppose: 0
[21:35] <@Toprawa> Part 1 ratified.
[21:35] <@Darth_Culator> Part 2 is to add item 10 to the UIP.
[21:35] <@Toprawa> Vote on Part 2.
[21:35] <@Toprawa> ~open
[21:35] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[21:35] <Menkooroo> ~support
[21:35] <@PurpleTentacle> Menkooroo: Support vote counted.
[21:35] <MasterJonathan> ~support
[21:35] <@grunny> ~support
[21:35] <@Darth_Culator> ~support
[21:35] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted.
[21:35] <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
[21:35] <@PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted.
[21:35] <@jSarek> ~oppose - let's stop biting noobs quite so much.
[21:35] <@PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Oppose vote counted.
[21:35] <@Toprawa> ~support
[21:35] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[21:35] <Corellian_Premie> ~support
[21:35] <@PurpleTentacle> Corellian_Premie: Support vote counted.
[21:35] <@Xd1358> ~support
[21:35] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[21:35] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[21:35] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[21:35] <Karohalva> ~oppose Meh
[21:35] <@PurpleTentacle> Karohalva: Oppose vote counted.
[21:35] <Jang|Away> ~support
[21:35] <@PurpleTentacle> Jang|Away: Support vote counted.
[21:35] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[21:35] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[21:35] <Nayayen> ~support
[21:35] <@PurpleTentacle> Nayayen: Support vote counted.
[21:36] <Exiledjedi> ~support
[21:36] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[21:36] <@Toprawa> Vote closing in 10.
[21:36] <@Toprawa> ~close
[21:36] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[21:36] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[21:36] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 12, Oppose: 2
[21:36] <@Toprawa> Part 2 ratified.
[21:36] * Toprawa sets mode: +m
[21:36] <@Toprawa> LAST ONE
[21:36] * Darth_Culator changes topic to 'Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki: http://wookieepedia.com - THIS IS THE MOFFERENCE - http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/WP:M#Agenda - Item #19'
[21:36] <@Xd1358> wooo
[21:37] <@Toprawa> To jump on the bandwagon, there's curently no standardized method for citing non-Star Wars books. I noticed this while organizing the sourcing for Burl Ives, where I just picked up one of my MLA sourcebooks and used a tweaked version of that. For those that haven't seen MLA, the jist of it is here on the far left. While this won't show up often, I think we should discuss how to handle it,...
[21:37] <@Toprawa> ...like if a template should be made or not. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo.png 00:08, February 6, 2012 (UTC)
[21:37] * Toprawa sets mode: +v NaruHina
[21:37] <+NaruHina> Basically, I think we might have a standard way for non-SW books since we otherwise creep into infringement/plagiarism territory if we use those types of sources and don't cite properly. Here's an example of what I used on http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Burl_Ives :
[21:37] <+NaruHina> Parish, James Robert, and Michael R. Pitts, eds. "Burl Ives". Hollywood Songsters: Singers Who Act and Actors Who Sing: A Biographical Dictionary (ISBN 0415943337). Vol. 2. New York: Routledge, 2003. pp. 403—406. Print.
[21:37] <+NaruHina> That includes all the applicable MLA fields for that source and the only changes are the ISBN number (Which isn't exactly necessary anyway), and the "pp" to be explicit as a (preemptive, not entirely necessary either) courtesy to those that wouldn't otherwise know exactly which the page number field is.
[21:37] <+NaruHina> I would not be against "Print" being removed since we have a separate template for Web.
[21:37] <+NaruHina> The MLA system isn't incredibly complex and it can be readily picked up since there are MANY websites dedicated to it. EasyBib is a good citation mahine for those that don't want to learn it. I say that because templates may become unwieldly since there are different forms for books, magazines, journals, etc. There would have to be several if we went that route though it wouldn't be entirely impossible. The programmer would hav
[21:38] <+NaruHina> Ain't ya glad I typed it beforehand? Please discuss.
[21:38] <@Enochf> Takes me back to the days of adding bibliographies to my high school history papers
[21:38] * Toprawa sets mode: -m
[21:38] <Menkooroo> I support MLA!
[21:38] <@Xd1358> say no to ACTA
[21:38] <@Xd1358> anyways
[21:38] <@Toprawa> So create a citeweb-like template for non-SW book MLA citation?
[21:38] <Menkooroo> Do it!
[21:38] <@jSarek> Also, most high schools and undergrad college courses teach MLA, so it's more likely new users will know it than the alternatives.
[21:38] <+NaruHina> Seriously. Dinner.
[21:38] <Exiledjedi> It makes me think of writing my College papers.
[21:39] <@Enochf> Right
[21:39] <Menkooroo> Don't include a table of contents on your MLA essays. It's WRONG.
[21:39] <Corellian_Premie> Eh, i've got one due in a few weeks.
[21:39] <Karohalva> I can assure you that high schools and undergrad college courses may teach MLA, but students don't learn it.
[21:39] <@grunny> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Cite_book <-- we can take a look at examples of how WP does it
[21:39] <+NaruHina> Perhaps a separate vote on using "Print" so long as we're here.
[21:39] <@Enochf> That format, is it from The Elements of Style?
[21:39] <@jSarek> Karo: Right, but they might have the books on their shelves already, or something. ;-)
[21:39] <MasterJonathan> I'm fine with whatever the consensus is.
[21:40] <Nayayen> Karo: They probably /should/ learn it :P
[21:40] <@jSarek> Heh, MLA requires "Print" these days? How times change when you get old ...
[21:40] <Karohalva> I learned it once but forgot it.
[21:40] <@Toprawa> Naru> May I ask you to clarify what your proposal is exactly?
[21:40] <+NaruHina> The web citations say you shouldn't list the URL now.
[21:40] <@Enochf> We'll need to annotate any OOU's biography with refs
[21:40] <@jSarek> I still know 1997-era MLA for books like the back of my hand.
[21:40] <@Enochf> But the refs need formats
[21:40] <@Darth_Culator> ...For once there is something being discussed about which I have no opinion.
[21:40] <@Enochf> So this is just setting out the standardized format, and huzzah, I say
[21:40] <Jang|Away> heh MLA heh
[21:41] <@Toprawa> Naru> What exactly do you want us to do?
[21:41] <@Toprawa> Create a template? Start doing this or that?
[21:41] <+NaruHina> In short: "Adopt MLA as the standard method for citing Non-Star Wars material aside from websites."
[21:41] <@Enochf> Can we use a ref note without a link?
[21:41] <@jSarek> How about a manual of style entry, or something, that says "references to works not covered by articles at Wookieepedia should be cited in Modern Language Association citation format."?
[21:41] <+NaruHina> MLA 7
[21:42] <+NaruHina> *Current incarnation of MLA
[21:42] <@Enochf> 'K
[21:42] <@Toprawa> jSarek> I like that, but I would prefer it spell out Naru's point of "aside from websites"
[21:42] <Jang|Away> Except what if someone does not know what MLA is. :P Not me, but others
[21:42] <Nayayen> Jang|Away:  Google
[21:42] <Menkooroo> link to a style guide.
[21:42] <Menkooroo> in the MOS entry.
[21:42] <Menkooroo> "For examples, see here."
[21:42] <@Enochf> Ugh, don't use websites
[21:42] <+NaruHina> We could list a website next to the MOS entry
[21:42] <Jang|Away> Yeah, but you might need to hold someone's hand through it and explain that :P
[21:42] <+NaruHina> NOT EASYBIB
[21:42] <@jSarek> Tope: "References to print works ..." ?
[21:43] <@Toprawa> I like that
[21:43] <+NaruHina> A Site that tess how to use it. They can be lazy if they already know how.
[21:43] <Exiledjedi> Hey MLA isn't any more complicated than the CiteWeb template.
[21:43] <+NaruHina> *tells
[21:43] <@grunny> Jang|Away: we make a template and then it's no different than Cite web in getting people to use it
[21:43] <Jang|Away> grunny: Ah thanks for clarifying that
[21:44] <@Toprawa> Ok, opening voting on Naru/jSarek: "References to print works not covered by articles at Wookieepedia should be cited in Modern Language Association citation format." addition to Manual of Style
[21:44] <@Toprawa> ~open
[21:44] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[21:44] <Nayayen> ~support
[21:44] <@PurpleTentacle> Nayayen: Support vote counted.
[21:44] <@Enochf> ~support
[21:44] <@PurpleTentacle> Enochf: Support vote counted.
[21:44] <@Xd1358> s/
[21:44] <@jSarek> ~support
[21:44] <@PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Support vote counted.
[21:44] <@Xd1358> er, oops
[21:44] <+NaruHina> ~support
[21:44] <@PurpleTentacle> NaruHina: Support vote counted.
[21:44] <@Toprawa> ~support
[21:44] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted.
[21:44] <@Xd1358> ~support
[21:44] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Support vote counted.
[21:44] <Cal_Jedi> ~support
[21:44] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Support vote counted.
[21:44] <@Darth_Culator> ~clueless
[21:44] <Exiledjedi> ~support
[21:44] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Support vote counted.
[21:44] <Corellian_Premie> ~support
[21:44] <@PurpleTentacle> Corellian_Premie: Support vote counted.
[21:44] <Menkooroo> ~support
[21:44] <@PurpleTentacle> Menkooroo: Support vote counted.
[21:44] <Karohalva> ~oppose
[21:44] <@PurpleTentacle> Karohalva: Oppose vote counted.
[21:44] <@CavalierOne> ~support
[21:44] <MasterJonathan> ~clueless per Culator :P
[21:44] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Support vote counted.
[21:44] <Jang|Away> ~oppose
[21:44] <@PurpleTentacle> Jang|Away: Oppose vote counted.
[21:45] <@grunny> ~support
[21:45] <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted.
[21:45] <@Toprawa> Closing vote in 10 seconds.
[21:45] <@Toprawa> ~close
[21:45] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[21:45] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[21:45] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 12, Oppose: 2
[21:45] <@Toprawa> MOS amendment ratified.
[21:45] <@jSarek> Clueless: 2. :-p
[21:45] <+NaruHina> I have one more tidbit. Do we want to require "Print" at the end? We should establish that quick while we're all here.
[21:45] <@Toprawa> We just did.
[21:46] <MasterJonathan> Hell no.
[21:46] <@Toprawa> That was jSarek's addition, yes?
[21:46] <Corellian_Premie> Per MJ
[21:46] <+NaruHina> As a separate vote.
[21:46] <Exiledjedi> I thought it was a separate vote.
[21:46] <@jSarek> No, he means in the reference itself, at the end, like MLA apparently now requires but didn't formerly.
[21:46] * Zervonn (zervonn@wookieepedia/Zervonn) has left #wookieepedia
[21:46] * Zervonn (zervonn@wookieepedia/Zervonn) has joined #wookieepedia
[21:46] * ChanServ sets mode: +v Zervonn
[21:46] * Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +v Zervonn
[21:46] <@Toprawa> Oh, ok
[21:46] * Darth_Culator sets mode: -vv NaruHina Zervonn
[21:46] <@Toprawa> Vote on whether to require "Print" at end of the reference.
[21:46] <@Toprawa> ~open
[21:46] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open.
[21:47] <MasterJonathan> support is what?
[21:47] <@Toprawa> Support is including "Print"
[21:47] <@Toprawa> Oppose is not including
[21:47] <MasterJonathan> ~oppose
[21:47] <@PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Oppose vote counted.
[21:47] <@jSarek> ~oppose
[21:47] <@PurpleTentacle> jSarek: Oppose vote counted.
[21:47] <@Toprawa> ~oppose
[21:47] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Oppose vote counted.
[21:47] <NaruHina> ~support
[21:47] <Jang|Away> ~oppose
[21:47] <@PurpleTentacle> NaruHina: Support vote counted.
[21:47] <@PurpleTentacle> Jang|Away: Oppose vote counted.
[21:47] <Corellian_Premie> ~oppose
[21:47] <@PurpleTentacle> Corellian_Premie: Oppose vote counted.
[21:47] <Cal_Jedi> ~oppose
[21:47] <@PurpleTentacle> Cal_Jedi: Oppose vote counted.
[21:47] <Exiledjedi> ~oppose
[21:47] <@PurpleTentacle> Exiledjedi: Oppose vote counted.
[21:47] <Nayayen> ~support get with the times?
[21:47] <@PurpleTentacle> Nayayen: Support vote counted.
[21:47] <@Xd1358> ~oppose
[21:47] <@PurpleTentacle> Xd1358: Oppose vote counted.
[21:47] <@CavalierOne> ~oppose
[21:47] <@PurpleTentacle> CavalierOne: Oppose vote counted.
[21:47] <@Darth_Culator> ~what?
[21:47] <@Toprawa> heh
[21:47] <Nayayen> ~withdraw I see
[21:47] <@PurpleTentacle> Nayayen: Your vote has been withdrawn.
[21:47] <Nayayen> ~oppose
[21:47] <@PurpleTentacle> Nayayen: Oppose vote counted.
[21:48] <@Toprawa> Final vote of Mofference closes in 10.
[21:48] <@Toprawa> ~close
[21:48] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed.
[21:48] <@Xd1358> awww yeah
[21:48] <@Toprawa> ~tally
[21:48] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 1, Oppose: 10
[21:48] <NaruHina> Alright. Just thought we'd get that out of the way. Good Mofference everybody!
[21:48] <@Toprawa> MOS amendment will not include "Print"
[21:48] <Jang|Away> shhh
[21:48] <@Toprawa> Mofference is hereby concluded.
[21:48] <@Toprawa> Thanks for coming everyone

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