This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.
The result of the debate was keep - Sikon 05:39, 15 March 2007 (UTC).
Contents
Latin alphabet (talk - history - links - logs)[]
Keep[]
- Vote--those signatures in the Declaration of a New Republic obviously aren't and if you would go to CSA, it shows aurebesh and the Latin alphabet both being used on the logo, thus removing the argument that the Latin alphabet is used SOLELY for real world viewers. Then there are the X (and other letter) wings. And plan b in ROTS. Expansionary Fleet Commander Mitth'raw'nuruodo Discuss 13:10, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Keep, unless we want to rename a bunch of our articles, like Xesh-wings, Yirt-wings, Reshtoo Dorntoo, and Cresh-ThreePethOsk. Since there is no known Latin in Star Wars, though, a Rename to just "alphabet" would probably be appropriate. jSarek 13:24, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- This isn't a double vote, but just to point out, an alphabet is any writing system where there is a symbol or glyph for consonants and vowels. Aurebesh is an alphabet, too. Expansionary Fleet Commander Mitth'raw'nuruodo Discuss 13:28, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Tag it as 'ambiguously canon', rename it and keep. Comment I think Thrawn, since created this page, has no right to vote against deletion? MoffRebus 13:36, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Keep
but add a conjecture tagThis is canon, but the name is not. Nowhere in the GFFA is there a reference to "Latin", so this needs to state that. However,the information is correct. And agreed that a Greek alphabet page would fly as well. Wildyoda 13:49, 8 March 2007 (UTC) - Weak keep with conjecture tag. Hyperinclusionistic fanwankery knows no bounds. --Azizlight 14:29, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Keep, at the very least to explain the letters in original ANH, etc. —Xwing328(Talk) 03:53, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
- I moved it to Alternate Basic alphabet, and this is one of the cases when it is not hyperinclusionist fanwankery. It needs serious cleanup, however. - Sikon 05:32, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
Merge[]
Make a note on the aurebesh page - that all references to letters should technically be aurebesh, but there are references to latin and greek letters.My head hurts! --Azizlight 13:37, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Redirect[]
Delete[]
Ullo. --Azizlight 13:00, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Imp 13:07, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Green Tentacle (Talk) 13:08, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Comments[]
- The article's creator is obviously referring to how things like the actual Declaration of the New Republic, and the CSA logo are written in our alphabet rather than the aurebesh (in the sourcebooks). Surely we can assume it's just translated from aurebesh to alphabet for the sake of the readers ;-) Especially since aurebesh replaced the alphabet in the SE. --Azizlight 13:00, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Look at CSA, the Latin alphabet and aurebesh are used concurrently. Furthermore, X-wings, Y-wings, A-wings, E-wings, etc. strongly suggest that the Latin alphabet exists. Also A G SOURCE CANON source would be Obi-wan Kenobi asking Anakin Skywalker if he has a plan b when they get caught in the ray shields in ROTS. Expansionary Fleet Commander Mitth'raw'nuruodo Discuss 13:13, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Hmmm.... and then there's Attack Pattern Delta... don't tell me we need a Greek alphabet article too :P --Azizlight 13:18, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- With Alpha-, Lambda-, Theta-, Kappa-, and Zeta- class ships . . . might not be out of line. jSarek 13:24, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, it is out of line. It's fanon. --Imp 13:27, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- No, lambda class shuttles are definitely NOT fanon. Expansionary Fleet Commander Mitth'raw'nuruodo Discuss 13:30, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Even if we do keep it, it does need to be renamed. Latin wouldn't exist in Star Wars, but as Thrawn pointed out, alphabet is too generic so it'd have to be something like Unknown alphabet. Green Tentacle (Talk) 13:31, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Can't we just make a note on the aurebesh page - that all references to letters should technically be aurebesh, but there are occurances of latin and greek letters? --Azizlight 13:32, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Why is this code not going all the way to Aziz's latest comment? Anyway, for his putting a note on the Aurebesh page idea, that doesn't fly. It "should [NOT] technically" be in Aurebesh. Just look at almost every if not every one of the Star Wars movies--the number of writing systems are huge, even when the users ostensibly are native Basic users. Expansionary Fleet Commander Mitth'raw'nuruodo Discuss 13:40, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Per Azizlight. --Imp 13:37, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- No we can't, because it's not true. X-wings aren't shaped like Xeshes, they're shaped like Xes; same for Y-wings and Yirt. And the CSA logo is also key; even if you assume part of it is being "translated" for us, that still means that there are two alphabets in use for transcribing Basic. jSarek 13:39, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Can't we just make a note on the aurebesh page - that all references to letters should technically be aurebesh, but there are occurances of latin and greek letters? --Azizlight 13:32, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Even if we do keep it, it does need to be renamed. Latin wouldn't exist in Star Wars, but as Thrawn pointed out, alphabet is too generic so it'd have to be something like Unknown alphabet. Green Tentacle (Talk) 13:31, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- No, lambda class shuttles are definitely NOT fanon. Expansionary Fleet Commander Mitth'raw'nuruodo Discuss 13:30, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, it is out of line. It's fanon. --Imp 13:27, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- With Alpha-, Lambda-, Theta-, Kappa-, and Zeta- class ships . . . might not be out of line. jSarek 13:24, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Hmmm.... and then there's Attack Pattern Delta... don't tell me we need a Greek alphabet article too :P --Azizlight 13:18, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Maybe if it was written completely out of universe, then I could support the article. As of now, the article seems to support the idea that people wrote and read the Latin alphabet in the SW galaxy. How exactly can we be certain that the word lambda relates to the Latin alphabet IU? I'm all for having an article mentioning the influence of Latin words on Star Wars while citing the previous given examples. However, there doesn't seem to be any support for the Latin alphabet being used IU. Cull Tremayne 13:37, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- You're thinking of the Greek alphabet; and you're right, we can't be certain, though the fact that nearly half the Greek letters are represented in Star Wars makes a strong (but admittedly not canonical) argument for the fact. The Latin alphabet is the one that English uses, that we're using right now, and there's plenty of evidence it gets used in Star Wars, too. jSarek 13:42, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Have you read the parts in the article about the starfighters and plan b? Those are IU. As for calling it the Latin alphabet, there is no IU term for the alphabet as Basic (instead of English). Expansionary Fleet Commander Mitth'raw'nuruodo Discuss 13:44, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Err, no, there's no proof. You're just assuming things. Please provide a real source, instead of this extrapolation. --Imp 13:45, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Ummmm, you aren't making much sense. How are those sources not valid and IU? Some are g canon sources. That's pretty high up there. Expansionary Fleet Commander Mitth'raw'nuruodo Discuss 13:47, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- You're assuming the letters "CSA" are Latin; how do you know they're some sort of symbol that coincidentally translates into the Latin letters C, S and A? The same goes for X-wings, etcetera. There is no source that specifically refers to the Latin alphabet. Until you can provide one, this is fanon. --Imp 13:54, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Then maybe we can just merge it with Basic? "Basic is often represented in the Aurebesh, the Latin alphabet and the Greek alphabet," though it doesn't work IU. I understand everyone's arguements here, but I still think that the aurebesh and references to the latin alphabet were never meant to be two different alphabets, and therefore don't deserve their own articles. But then again, intent counts for nothing :P --Azizlight 13:56, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Again, verbally English in universe has been given the name Basic. However, there is no IU term for the Latin alphabet. If a suitable IU alternative can be found, then the name of the article can be changed. That is not what you're proposing. You're proposing that this alphabet doesn't exist IU and that the article should be deleted. You people keep on posting before these posts can be posted. (last sentence off topic). Expansionary Fleet Commander Mitth'raw'nuruodo Discuss 13:59, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- You're assuming the letters "CSA" are Latin; how do you know they're some sort of symbol that coincidentally translates into the Latin letters C, S and A? The same goes for X-wings, etcetera. There is no source that specifically refers to the Latin alphabet. Until you can provide one, this is fanon. --Imp 13:54, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Ummmm, you aren't making much sense. How are those sources not valid and IU? Some are g canon sources. That's pretty high up there. Expansionary Fleet Commander Mitth'raw'nuruodo Discuss 13:47, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Err, no, there's no proof. You're just assuming things. Please provide a real source, instead of this extrapolation. --Imp 13:45, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- I summon thee retcon gods (Abel, Gustavo, Lopez, Pena) to make latin alphabet = Corellian notation! --Azizlight 14:06, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Nice idea. If only the were summonable. Green Tentacle (Talk) 14:07, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Holy poodoo, I was just dreaming of the same retcon! Or hallucinating. One of the two. jSarek 14:07, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- And while they're at it, Greek alphabet = Kuati alphabet :-) --Azizlight 14:10, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Bah. It's the ancient writing system of the Cygnus Star Empire. ;-) jSarek 14:13, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Ooh that works for me :-) --Azizlight 14:16, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- And Cull slaps himself for getting so utterly confused that he thought the Latin alphabet was the same as the Greek alphabet. :-P Cull Tremayne 14:15, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Bah. It's the ancient writing system of the Cygnus Star Empire. ;-) jSarek 14:13, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- And while they're at it, Greek alphabet = Kuati alphabet :-) --Azizlight 14:10, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Sigh. Why not? Both Portugal and England are canonical.... why not Ancient Rome? KEJ 15:03, 10 March 2007 (UTC)