Talk: Sith

Title

The Encyclopedia pages for "Sith," "Jedi Order," "Moraband," "Lightsaber" and "Darth Sidious" still use the phrase "Sith Order." Shouldn't it be moved accordingly? --Lelal Mekha ^{(Audience Room)} 15:45, June 27, 2014 (UTC)

• We didn't move the legends sith article, why this one? However, it does say "Sith Order" in it's infobox and in the article's introduction. CommanderAwesome Talk Contribs 18:23, June 27, 2014 (UTC)
  • I see no reason not to use the phrase "Sith Order" if it's in both the Encyclopedia and Databank. I'll effect the appropriate changes later. ProfessorTofty (talk) 20:18, October 26, 2014 (UTC)
    • I'm not sure I agree with that, actually. There are only a few instances of Sith Order, especially in the Databank (I recall only one or two instances of it in the Databank). Sith is the most commonly used name. Even the Databank entry for Sith, here, doesn't use the phrase Sith Order. Neither do the films or, so far as I know, The Clone Wars. Let's stick with Sith, but also mention Sith Order as another name. - Brandon Rhea^(talk) 20:34, October 26, 2014 (UTC)
      • Well, that's all I meant actually. I wasn't planning to change the article title or anything, but I was planning to add the reference to it also being called the Sith Order, and maybe a few other additions. ProfessorTofty (talk) 20:36, October 26, 2014 (UTC)
        • Got it. I misunderstood since the OP mentioned moving the page. Thanks for clarifying. - Brandon Rhea^(talk) 20:38, October 26, 2014 (UTC)

Chancellor Palpatine

Should we count it as an appearance of the Sith if Palpatine appears, but only as Chancellor? For example, in "The Zillo Beast Strikes Back" there is no mention of the Sith, Dooku does not appear, and Palpatine does not appear as Darth Sidious. However, Palpatine and Sidious are one in the same, so should it still be counted as an appearance of the Sith? Or should we restrict it to when Sidious appears acting as a Sith, not Supreme Chancellor? Cevan (talk) 22:24, February 21, 2015 (UTC)

The Jedi Temple was built over the Sith shrine, not the reverse

In reference to this quote from the article: "At one point, nearly six thousand years before the rise of the Galactic Empire, the Sith built a shrine beneath the Jedi's own temple, which became a place of immense dark side power."

I am nearly certain that the novel Tarkin clearly states that the Jedi Temple was built over the Sith shrine. This article implies that the shrine was built underneath the already-present temple... but if I recall correctly, the Jedi built their temple over the Sith shrine in a sort of effort to stomp out its power. Am I remembering this incorrectly? --532250 (talk) 10:26, June 8, 2015 (UTC)

Membership

Why are Asajj Ventress, Savage Opress and Quinlan Vos included in the 'notable members' list? The Rule of Two makes it impossible for them to be members of Darth Bane's Sith Order. At the very least, they could be considered de facto Sith since Ventress and Vos were trained by Darth Tyranus, and Opress was trained by Tyranus and later Darth Maul. Yet both Maul and Tyranus never achieved the rank of Sith Master since they didn't complete their training under Darth Sidious. Therefore their respective "apprentices" cannot be considered actual members of the Sith Order, again because of the Rule of Two. JRT2010 (talk) 00:26, July 22, 2015 (UTC)

Canon sources explicitly refer to all three as Sith, so they are. The Rule of Two can be (and has been) broken in both Canon and Legends.--Ser Patrek (talk) 11:17, September 21, 2015 (UTC)

In canon, the Rule of Two has never been broken. Your statement is an assumption and a poor interpretation. In-universe, when an outsider refers to a dark side force user as a Sith, that doesn't signify that one is a Sith. It's simply an outsider's interpretation based on limited facts. And the real facts here are that Asajj was never trained as a Sith Apprentice. She never recieved the necessary knowledge to qualify. And since Rule of Two Sith are annointed titles, and since she was never annointed, nor refered to as a Sith by either Palpatine or Dooku, she doesn't get to be called a Sith Lord. Any argument stating that she is a Sith Lord is naive. While one can make a solid argument in Legends for this, there is zero argument for this in canon. In fact, the Databank is the defacto canon. And the databank states that she was never a Sith. This should be changed.--ChristopherLeeGallant (talk) 17:47, March 10, 2017 (UTC)

Quinlan Vos a Sith?

Quinlan Vos turned to the dark side in Dark Disciple, but should he be considered as a Sith? If so, I think "briefly" must be added near it. What do you think? --AnilSerifoglu (talk)

First Order?

What of Kylo Ren and that giant freak, his master? Are they Sith? If First Order are the only canon organization to inherit the Empire's...power? (I'm not sure what exactly)...doesn't that make 'em Sith?--It's 658, mate! (talk) 15:01, January 26, 2016 (UTC)

Not all dark side users are Sith, and Kylo is master of the Knights of Ren. But you raise a valid point about how we can make this point clearer bc not mentioning them in an article about this specific dark side organisation is not getting the point that dark side users=/=Sith. I'll go and add a bit about the Inquisitorius. --Alientraveller (talk) 15:07, January 26, 2016 (UTC)

• • Sorry, accidentally edited old version of page. ----Commander Awesome (AKA TheCrazyWeirdo) (Talk - Contribs) 23:25, January 26, 2016 (UTC)
• As for Kylo, no. He started his own group of Dark Jedi. As for Snoke (Kylo's master), we don't know for sure. But being affiliated with the Empire does not make you a Sith, the Sith are a culture, and a set of specific teachings and beleifs. Though there is a popular theory that Snoke is actually Darth Plagueis, but that has not been confirmed to be true, and even then, he may not be a Sith anymore. I hope this helps. --Commander Awesome (AKA TheCrazyWeirdo) (Talk - Contribs) 17:34, January 26, 2016 (UTC)
• Exactly. The Sith were an ancient organization, even before Darth Bane. They even had empires that fought the Jedi in the days of the Old Republic, meaning that Sith led countless other factions throughout history besides the Galactic Empire. Darth Ravigious (talk) 22:52, January 26, 2016 (UTC)

Sith Order vs. Jedi Order

Why are there two pages for the light side of the Force-affiliated group but there is only one page, this one, for their opposite enemy? I understand that in Canon, we know very little about the Sith Order, but even so, shouldn't the organization (Sith Order) and its followers (Sith) have two separate pages also? Alternatively, shouldn't the Jedi and Jedi Order also be both covered on the same page? I don't recall there being a rule in Canon that says Sith have to be aligned with their side's Order (Savage and Maul for example were not aligned with Sidious and Tyranus) but Jedi don't have to be; I would think being on the light side but not a part of the Order and its teachings disqualifies you from being a Jedi and same with the Sith. Or am I missing something?--69.142.18.236 07:25, November 10, 2016 (UTC)

add a picture of Darth Bane's spirit

I think a picture of Darth Bane's spirit from TCW should be added. 104.34.246.89 09:46, December 31, 2016 (UTC)

Vader death picture

Could someone add this:

http://theforce.net/swtc/Pix/dvd/zs/rotj/unmasked5.jpg

Because THAT market the end of the Sith!—Unsigned comment by 79.254.38.49 (talk • contribs).

• I think a more appropriate image would be File:Vader Grabs Palpatine.png or File:First Death 2.png. When Vader decided to betray and kill Sidious to save Luke, he ceased to be Darth Vader and became Anakin Skywalker once again, thus ending the Sith. -- Dr. Porter (Talk|Contribs) 22:55, June 26, 2017 (UTC)
• Either my proposal or "Grabs". May the editors decide.—Unsigned comment by 79.254.38.49 (talk • contribs).

sith code?

the sith code is still canon, is it not included in this page because we have only seen various fragments of it? FrankPalps (talk) 19:06, January 2, 2018 (UTC)

• Yes. It is in Darth Vader: Sith Lord.--ZapikCZ (talk) 19:30, January 2, 2018 (UTC)

• • hmm. this page and also the dark side of the force page seem to really need some attention. FrankPalps (talk) 19:41, January 2, 2018 (UTC)

Sith really extinct?

I am not seeing any actual source confirming the extinction of the Sith. This seems to be an assumption made in the article without any solid backing. Only two sources are listed for this, Return of the Jedi and The Last Jedi Visual Dictionary. The former never explicitly states that is the end of the Sith Order, and the latter lists no page number to find a quote for proof (and even then it's referring to a prophecy about the end of the Sith Order, rather than the explicit extinction of the Sith). At the very least, the sourcing needs to be done better. What is also problematic is how Jedi and Jedi Order are separate articles, and yet Sith and Sith Order are not. The articles for the former properly show that while the Jedi Order was destroyed, the Jedi never went extinct. While it might be safe to assume the Sith are extinct, it should be stated that the Sith are assumed to have gone extinct with the death of Palpatine, rather than stated as an absolute fact since there is not a source explicitely stating it. It's a lot like what you guys have done with Jango and Boba Fett. Most people would assume they are Mandalorians, but since no current canon source exists explicitly stating that they are, Wookieepedia has avoided saying that they are in their Conon articles (though the articles also don't outright say they are not Mandalorians, as it hasn't been proven either way). I suggest this Sith extinction assumption be treated the same way. Until a source explicitely states the Sith are extinct, it should be listed as an assumption or not listed at all. It would be safe to say the Sith Order stopped existing with the death of Palpatine, but the Sith Order and the Sith should be treated separately like the Jedi Order and the Jedi. 2600:100D:B11F:B694:ED07:9E69:8482:5B98 15:03, July 28, 2018 (UTC)

• In Aftermath, Yupe Tashu flat out says that 'no Sith remain'. As for the Fett's, in the BTS of Jango Fett's article says 'Jango Fett was a Mandalorian in the lore of Star Wars Legends. In the "Creating Mandalore" featurette on The Clone Wars: Season Two DVD set, however, series director Dave Filoni explained that, according to George Lucas, the Fetts were not Mandalorians. After the creation of the new official Star Wars canon, Pablo Hidalgo of the Lucasfilm Story Group reiterated that the Fetts are not Mandalorians, though they might claim to be.' Pablo's statement can be found here --Lewisr (talk) 15:18, July 28, 2018 (UTC)

adding Asajj Ventress

should we add asajj ventress as a sith even she is an informal one?(Mrjosh1994 (talk) 01:50, January 1, 2019 (UTC))

• No because she was merely an assassin and not an actual Sith --Lewisr (talk) 01:53, January 1, 2019 (UTC)

Star Wars Book XI: Hope Dies

Y/N we add the events of Book XI: Hope Dies?--Rgilbert27 (talk) 09:41, March 30, 2019 (UTC)

swtor-era sith empire emblem

Should the SWTOR-era Sith Empire logo be added here somewhere? It appeared among the dark-side relics (alongside the more traditional sith emblem, currently as the primary image on the Legends page), which is actually the second time it's appeared in canon materials; it previously showed up on the stand that held Lord Momin's helm in Palpatine's Yacht.

Ømn1 (talk) 22:53, April 19, 2019 (UTC)

Sith legal standing in the Empire?

Were the Sith known outside the Emperor inner circle? Where they legal or outlawed just as the Jedi and other Force-sensitives were? Should the Sith by added to the Jedi Purge conflict box (maybe as officially?) due to the Attack on Brighthome where Vader was attacked by stormtroopers?

starlordbeta (talk) 13:28, April 25, 2019 (UTC)

not in the flesh but in the will

This description of "Sith power" in the novels in Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader... is that unique to sith power, implying that non-Sith force power DOES reside in the Flesh?

Like perhaps Anakin's strength in 1-3 comes from his flesh (Midi-chloreans) but he lost Midi-chlorean power from losing ~50% of his body (arms+legs) and it's the shift to Sith power which allowed him to regain/surpass power?

This shift/contrast seems like perhaps it might be depicted in this image where you see a blue halo of energy around his body (light side power?) and a red halo of energy around his head (dark side power?)

IE perhaps sith power comes from the brain (will) and light-side power comes from the body?

It also might explain why Obi-Wan had to vanish when going force-ghost: he actually transmuted his body along with him, the entire thing had to come along to maintain his power, not something like where your mind can exist by itself, which might be what Sith aim for? talk2ty 18:14, August 7, 2019 (UTC)

is it appropriate to

conjecture whether the writers got “Sith” from archaic “sith” (=since)? Eschiss1 (talk) 12:58, October 27, 2019 (UTC)

Approximate time of founding

This article and others (here, for example) claim the Sith were founded at least 6,000 years before the Clone Wars, citing James Luceno's novel Tarkin. However, the passage in question (in Chapter 9 — I have the Kindle version so no page number) doesn't support this: "Save for Sidious, no sentient being in close to five thousand years had set foot in the shrine." It seems one or more editors erroneously added the millennium following the apparent extinction of the Sith to the 5,000-year figure from the novel (likely because the previous paragraph mentions the Jedi having kept the shrine a secret for a thousand years) and the inaccuracy stuck. That said, other articles (e.g. these two) represent the information from Tarkin correctly. I'd change it myself but I would prefer not to start an edit war, especially considering I'm unregistered. --157.245.225.81 04:49, February 29, 2020 (UTC)

adding the hex charm as the main symbol on the info box

• i think we should add the sith eternal's hex charm in the sith page's main info box because that symbol has been used alot since the release of ep ix.(Mrjosh1994 (talk) 16:19, October 5, 2020 (UTC))

Did the old Sith emblem get retconned with the Sith Eternal emblem?

I’ve asked this before and people said the Sith Eternal emblem is just restricted to the cult itself and doesn’t represent the Sith in general. But I’ve seen some other cases where the Sith Eternal emblem seemed to be used for the Sith as a whole. A recent example is on the cover of "Stories of Jedi and Sith", the merged emblem below the title uses the Sith Eternal emblem instead of the Sith emblem even though this book is clearly discussing the Sith as a whole. Are there even any post-TROS content that used the old Sith emblem? AsianAvatar101 (talk) 23:06, 12 June 2022 (UTC)